Mass shootings

Ignacio Parajon

What's the psychology of mass shooters? How does someone go from being a normal member of society to buying a gun and shooting down 20+ people?

I've read mass shooting stories in America since I was in secondary school a decade ago (Sandy Hook was the first). I'm still perplexed by why people do this? Many of these people came from stable homes.

That and serial killers like Ted Bundy and Jeffrey Dahmer.

branie2

Who knows

Bobblehats

Here’s your reminder that Manhunt: Nailbomber is ready to watch

Capt'n Midnight

It's the USA gun culture.



10 mass shootings a week so far.

And the response :

Oh look Texas and Pennsylvania are removing the need for concealed carry permits.

Tennessee is going one better and you won't need a permit to carry a handgun.

randd1

The only way stop them from doing it in the US is to give everybody fully loaded guns, whip them into a hysteria that a new enemy made up of Al-Qaeda, communists and immigrants is loose in the US and are hunting down US citizens, and that anyone with a gun or anything that looks like a weapon is a potential enemy/traitor, and let them loose upon each other.

Now, the mostly sane people will see that crap for what it is, and won't get involved. However, the stupid people, to whom the gun laws pander to, won't and they'll actively try and live out their War of Independence fantasy and start blasting people away on the streets anyone with a weapon, in their fear and ignorance.

And after a couple of months, the stupid people will have killed enough of themselves so that the smart people can implement the necessary laws to counteract the culture of mass-shootings.

It maybe harsh, but this America we're talking about, unless there's blood involved, they won't change.

dxhound2005

If everyone has a gun, a lot of them will use it to commit suicide. More than will use it to kill someone else.

There were 39,707 deaths from firearms in the U.S. in 2019. Sixty percent of deaths from firearms in the U.S. are suicides. In 2019, 23,941 people in the U.S. died by firearm suicide.1 Firearms are the means in approximately half of suicides nationwide.

In 2019, 14,861 people in the U.S. died from firearm homicide, accounting for 37% of total deaths from firearms. Firearms were the means for about 75% of homicides in 2018.

The other 3% of firearm deaths are unintentional, undetermined, from legal intervention, or from public mass shootings (0.2% of total firearm deaths).

There are approximately 115,000 non-fatal firearm injuries in the U.S. each year.

zom

Some European statistics here:
Increased Gun Violence Among Young Males in Sweden: a Descriptive National Survey and International Comparison:
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10610-018-9387-0

2019 rates of lethal gun violence among males 15 to 29 years for 13 European countries:

BrianD3

Another one just there in San Jose, California. Happened in a rail yard and reports are that it was workplace related. So maybe a variation of Going Postal.

DwightSchrute1

USA needs more thoughts & prayers. Not enough going around at the moment.

dxhound2005

YFlyer

zom wrote: »

Some European statistics here:
Increased Gun Violence Among Young Males in Sweden: a Descriptive National Survey and International Comparison:
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10610-018-9387-0

2019 rates of lethal gun violence among males 15 to 29 years for 13 European countries:

And US in relation to them?

pgj2015

Ignacio Parajon wrote: »

What's the psychology of mass shooters? How does someone go from being a normal member of society to buying a gun and shooting down 20+ people?

I've read mass shooting stories in America since I was in secondary school a decade ago (Sandy Hook was the first). I'm still perplexed by why people do this? Many of these people came from stable homes.

That and serial killers like Ted Bundy and Jeffrey Dahmer.

Are they? I think most of them aren't normal, they are usually loners who have a history of strange and anti social behavior.

Potential-Monke

YFlyer wrote: »

And US in relation to them?

Best I (can be bothered to) find is the following:

In 2019, nearly 40,000 Americans were killed by gun violence, including over 14,400 by homicide and nearly 24,000 by suicide. Gun violence killed nearly 109 Americans daily, including 39 by homicide and 66 by suicide.

https://efsgv.org/wp-content/uploads/2019CDCdata.pdf

It's then broken up into children (under 19) and everyone else, and then I stopped reading.

zom

zom wrote: »

Some European statistics here:
Increased Gun Violence Among Young Males in Sweden: a Descriptive National Survey and International Comparison:
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10610-018-9387-0

2019 rates of lethal gun violence among males 15 to 29 years for 13 European countries:

The US is homocide rate is 3.96 per 100,000. Which would be off the charts there. And that’s across all ages, so it would be higher for males 15-29.

Ireland has gone higher recently, mostly gangster related.

Capt'n Midnight

YFlyer wrote: »

And US in relation to them?

15 to 29 years for 13 European countries:- The scale goes up to ONE per 100,000




Figure 8  Number of deaths from firearm violence among males by age and race/ethnicity, 2012.

Black males age 15-19 is about 80, for age 20-24 is about 90 and 25-29 is about 80

So average 15-29 is about EIGHTY THREE

Capt'n Midnight

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

15 to 29 years for 13 European countries:- The scale goes up to ONE per 100,000




Figure 8  Number of deaths from firearm violence among males by age and race/ethnicity, 2012.

Black males age 15-19 is about 80, for age 20-24 is about 90 and 25-29 is about 80

So add them up and between 15-29 is about TWO HUNDRED AND FIFTY

Don't add, weighted average is needed. So around 83 .

RulesOfNature

Ignacio Parajon wrote: »

What's the psychology of mass shooters? How does someone go from being a normal member of society to buying a gun and shooting down 20+ people?

I've read mass shooting stories in America since I was in secondary school a decade ago (Sandy Hook was the first). I'm still perplexed by why people do this? Many of these people came from stable homes.

That and serial killers like Ted Bundy and Jeffrey Dahmer.

Its the pharmaceuticals they pump children with. Alex Jones talked about this 30 years ago when he predicted (aside from Bohemian Grove and Epstein) the overuse of antipsychotics, benzodiazepines, opioids and all the pills under the sun they prescribe to children will cause an epidemic in violent outbursts. Lo and f*cking behold ALL of the mass shooters in the US are over prescribed since childhood with pharmaceuticals.

YFlyer

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Best I (can be bothered to) find is the following:

In 2019, nearly 40,000 Americans were killed by gun violence, including over 14,400 by homicide and nearly 24,000 by suicide. Gun violence killed nearly 109 Americans daily, including 39 by homicide and 66 by suicide.

https://efsgv.org/wp-content/uploads/2019CDCdata.pdf

It's then broken up into children (under 19) and everyone else, and then I stopped reading.

Thanks.

YFlyer

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

15 to 29 years for 13 European countries:- The scale goes up to ONE per 100,000




Figure 8  Number of deaths from firearm violence among males by age and race/ethnicity, 2012.

Black males age 15-19 is about 80, for age 20-24 is about 90 and 25-29 is about 80

So add them up and between 15-29 is about TWO HUNDRED AND FIFTY

And compare to other continents? Two AM so won't check after sleep.

Jequ0n

The question was on mass shooters so easy access to automatic weapons is crucial.
However, these stats are based on general gun related deaths so they don't really fit unless you want to discuss gun culture in general.
You can't pinpoint one general reason why people go on rampages but you can certainly focus on the more common factors, i.e. your politically motivated culprits, the revenge seeker etc etc etc.
I'm sure a lot of material is available online if one is interested enough to search for it.

I'll never understand people's obsession with Bundy. Not even remotely related to the topic but thrown out there as a buzzword

Wanderer78

Ignacio Parajon wrote:

What's the psychology of mass shooters? How does someone go from being a normal member of society to buying a gun and shooting down 20+ people?

Underlying psychological conditions that haven't been either diagnosed or very badly treated, there has been links to autism in some cases, the shootings being considered acts of retribution from shooters being continually rejected from society

fergiesfolly

Not to be glib or flippant about the subject, but people who carry out these acts, would have various kinds of physiological disorders and I'd imagine the reason they act out through mass killings is because they've seen it on tv dozens of times and they identify with the protagonist.
Monkey see, monkey do.

dxhound2005

That wouldn't explain the vastly greater number of people killing themselves with guns. That is not shown much on TV.

Littlehorny

At this stage when it comes to guns in the US, should we really care at this stage?

Homicide statistics, suicide statistics, age profiles, race profiles ,guns per capita numbers and mass shootings every week.

What's going to change or what's going to happen over there?

As you already know, nothing, not a damn thing. I used to have a real interest in their gun culture over there but gave up a couple of years ago when kids can be just blasted away and the people over there don't care.

dxhound2005

A lot more people die in car crashes in America than are murdered with guns. In such a vast country probably most people will go from one end of the year to the next without being impacted by either event. The amount of reportage on a subject can skew perceptions.

Andrewf20

Screwed up childhoods for various reasons seem pretty common too.

fryup

it's just people with a pent up rage and then one day they can't it take any longer and they explode! and they take it out on society

Capt'n Midnight

dxhound2005 wrote: »

A lot more people die in car crashes in America than are murdered with guns.

Cars used to cause three times as many deaths as gun. Now it's about the same.

Jequ0n

fryup wrote: »

it's just people with a pent up rage and then one day they can't it take any longer and they explode! and they take it out on society

You can’t blame them

salmocab

dxhound2005 wrote: »

A lot more people die in car crashes in America than are murdered with guns. In such a vast country probably most people will go from one end of the year to the next without being impacted by either event. The amount of reportage on a subject can skew perceptions.

Cars are for transport, if someone dies in a car crash it means someone likely used a car incorrectly, if someone dies of a gunshot it’s likely someone used a gun correctly.
There are many reasons people do these things but the access to and very odd relationship with guns for some Americans is a big player in why it happens.

punisher5112

One big reason is in the USA they aren't taught the word no......

They throw a tantrum if they don't get their way and when older in many cases snap, they really are a messed up country and their 2nd amendment rights bull crap.

Too many fruit loops and not enough help or services, access to weapons just as easy as going to the supermarket for us to buy a phone or TV for example.....

silverharp

How many have been on some kind of anti-depressants or anti-psychotic drugs?

dxhound2005

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Cars used to cause three times as many deaths as gun. Now it's about the same.

More up to date figures show over 38,000 killed by cars. And I said murders by gun, not all deaths by gun. Most of the deaths are suicide.

https://www.nsc.org/road-safety/safety-topics/fatality-estimates

RulesOfNature

silverharp wrote: »

How many have been on some kind of anti-depressants or anti-psychotic drugs?

All of them. Literally all the mass shooters in the US have been prescribed pharmaceuticals like SSRIs, Opioids and benzodiazepines.

If you ever met anyone in real life who is going cold turkey on any of those you KNOW how violent the outbursts can be. Now combine that with guns and you have the recipe for mass shootings

MadYaker

There is obviously a lot of people with mental health issues who don't get the treatment they need, especially men. But that wouldn't be unusual in a lot of developed countries. America is a bit unique because they have combined this with giving everybody easy access to guns, either legal or illegal. Until one or both of those issues are tackled the problem is going to keep getting worse.

punisher5112

Opioid are an absolute curse...

Funny how pre 2000 most doctors were against prescribing them, then things changed and drug abuse shot up as people got fixed and then in many cases would get off dealers or even went to heroin as it was cheaper....

Drugs are an absolute menace, of course needed for many things but then when people are hooked or abusing.

silverharp

RulesOfNature wrote: »

All of them. Literally all the mass shooters in the US have been prescribed pharmaceuticals like SSRIs, Opioids and benzodiazepines.

If you ever met anyone in real life who is going cold turkey on any of those you KNOW how violent the outbursts can be. Now combine that with guns and you have the recipe for mass shootings

it seems like these drugs might dampen or disassociate someone from their moral centre

Wanderer78

RulesOfNature wrote: »

All of them. Literally all the mass shooters in the US have been prescribed pharmaceuticals like SSRIs, Opioids and benzodiazepines.

If you ever met anyone in real life who is going cold turkey on any of those you KNOW how violent the outbursts can be. Now combine that with guns and you have the recipe for mass shootings

...im looking forward to coming off mine then, must get a gun, ive things to be sorting!

dxhound2005

MadYaker wrote: »

There is obviously a lot of people with mental health issues who don't get the treatment they need, especially men. But that wouldn't be unusual in a lot of developed countries. America is a bit unique because they have combined this with giving everybody easy access to guns, either legal or illegal. Until one or both of those issues are tackled the problem is going to keep getting worse.

America is far from being unique. Lots of other countries have a much higher murder rate. And there are big variations by individual State. 12 have a murder rate of over 500 per 100,000, but 17 have a rate under 100. Also there are indeed lots of guns, but most households in America do not own a gun. Some people own hundreds of guns.

I'm equating murder rate as being connected to death by gun, but I did not look that up.

Capt'n Midnight

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Also there are indeed lots of guns, but most households in America do not own a gun

44% live in gun house holds.


Rises to 50% or over if
town/rural or Republican or earns over $40,000 or Married or Male or White or college but not postgrad

Mad_maxx

its certainly an american phenomenon exclusively , both norway and switzerland have a huge number of guns but bar the breveik massacre , they dont feature when it comes to those kind of atrocities

salmocab

salmocab wrote: »

very odd relationship with guns for some Americans

I wonder how many of them that is. Of course the media jump on every picture or video of some American hugging his guns - screaming how much he loves his guns - shouting that you will never take his guns away - and so on.

So that can leave the impression the relationship is deeply odd and deeply widespread. But I wonder how ubiquitous it is. Having never even been US side myself in my life. And then the equally odd and shrill gun opposition people seem to have an equally deeply odd anti-relationship with them too.

But then someone like Colion Noir ends up on Joe Rogan talking for 2 or 3 hours about guns and gun control and gun advocacy and he just seems deeply normal, measured, calm and considered.

I picked up my first gun not that long ago when - through a friend - I got the chance to (legally I think) train myself and my then 9 year old daughter how to fire rifles. We both _really_ enjoy it - much to the horror of about three people here on this forum. So we go back when we can. Proud moment when at the age of 9 she was able to pick up - load - aim - and fire at a target with a direct hit all in under 10 seconds.

But I have never wanted to actually own one - and I certainly don't hug them, scream how I love them and no one will ever take them away, or cry over them It's just a hobby we found and enjoy occasionally like any other.

YFlyer

dxhound2005 wrote: »

A lot more people die in car crashes in America than are murdered with guns. In such a vast country probably most people will go from one end of the year to the next without being impacted by either event. The amount of reportage on a subject can skew perceptions.

It is per population the go to.

YFlyer

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Best I (can be bothered to) find is the following:

In 2019, nearly 40,000 Americans were killed by gun violence, including over 14,400 by homicide and nearly 24,000 by suicide. Gun violence killed nearly 109 Americans daily, including 39 by homicide and 66 by suicide.

https://efsgv.org/wp-content/uploads/2019CDCdata.pdf

It's then broken up into children (under 19) and everyone else, and then I stopped reading.

You had 13 countries but not the US.

YFlyer

YFlyer wrote: »

You had 13 countries but not the US.

There must be something wrong with the software. I didn't reply to the above post with that.