Confused about eviction date with lockdown!

novemberbass

Hi!
I was served eviction in a place I've been living over 8 years, on 19th Jan and was asked to leave on 5th Nov which is 283 days, plenty more than the 224 days required. Because of lockdown, I understand the eviction term can't be served until after 12th April and there's a 10 day grace period too, so possibly the 23rd of April?

So does the original eviction term of 283 days still apply, or does it go back to 224, which in this case, would only extend it until 22 November if it's from the 12th of April, or Dec 3rd if from the 23rd? Whereas, if it is still 283 days, then it would be 31st of January 22 if from the 23rd, or 20th of Jan if from the 12th of April.

I rang RTB and the guy didn't sound 100% sure and was saying 224 days sounds about right, rather than giving a clear answer. If that's the case I'm guessing there'll be a lot of evictions happening on the same dates based off the notice periods from the 12th or 23rd of April around the country!

Does anyone know for sure?:cool:

Also, if I find a place I want to move out to before that date, I read tenants living somewhere long term need to give 112 days notice, but that since htey have served me with eviction already, I don't need to give any notice if I find somewhere new to move into, I can just tell them and won't need to pay the next months rent and can still get my deposit back and everything?

houseyhouse

Can't help with the final eviction date but it's true that once you've been given notice, you no longer need to give notice yourself if you find somewhere to move to. You could try talking to Threshold?

meijin

novemberbass wrote: »

Also, if I find a place I want to move out to before that date, I read tenants living somewhere long term need to give 112 days notice, but that since htey have served me with eviction already, I don't need to give any notice if I find somewhere new to move into, I can just tell them and won't need to pay the next months rent and can still get my deposit back and everything?

yes, you don't need to give additional notice from your side;

you can even move out tomorrow and should have unused part of rent and deposit refunded

224 days apply.

Did your landlord specifically write on the termination notice they were giving you 283 days or have you calculated that?

What the landlord should have given you was (as per RTB advice) - 19th Jan + one day for notice to commence = 20th Jan + 224 days = 1st Sep. When lockdown ended they then need to provide you with any additional level 5 days between the Jan and April lockdown end date.

Yes, it will mean many renters will have the same end dates if notices begin on the same dates in April.

You don't have to give your landlord any notice if you want to leave early.

novemberbass

cheers for the replies! That's great I don't have to give any notice... but is that definite that it's now only 224 days? And is it 224 days from the 12th or 23rd of April?

If it is only 224 days, that means I only have an additional 17 days after all that lockdown time, rather than the original eviction period of 283 days being extended, which I was sure would be the case so I had it in my head I wouldn't have to move out until early next year :eek::o:(

there was no specific mention of 283 days, just the date they wanted me to move out by, which was the 283 days from the date of notice instead of 224 days.

houseyhouse

Is it possible the landlord was trying to calculate the 224 days from the end of the ban/lockdown period and that's how they came up with that date?

novemberbass

I talked to Threshold and they seemed to think it should be 224 days, but then looking at https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/tenancies_and_covid19.html#l1bd92

It says:

"This means that the time you have left before you are due to be evicted is extended by 10 days plus the amount of time 5km restrictions are in place."

And this seems to be reinforced by the bolded part below:

Notices of termination under Act of 2004
3. (1) Where a notice of termination served before or during an emergency period specifies
a termination date that falls during or after the emergency period, the termination date
shall be deemed to be the revised termination date.
(2) Subsection (1) shall not apply to a notice of termination served by a landlord that cites
as a reason for the termination concerned failure by the tenant to comply with one or
more than one of his or her obligations under paragraph (h), (i) or (m) of section 16 or
behaviour of the tenant that falls within subparagraph (2)(a)(ii) of section 67 of the
Act of 2004.
(3) A person shall not, by virtue of the operation of this section, acquire any rights under
Part 4 of the Act of 2004.
(4) In this section, “revised termination date” means the date that falls 10 days after the
date referred to in paragraph (a) or (b):
(a) in the case of a notice of termination served before the emergency period where
the period of the notice has not ended before the commencement of the
emergency period, that date immediately following the expiration of a period that
consists of the aggregate of—
(i) the period of the notice given in the notice of termination that remains
unexpired on the commencement of the emergency period, and
(ii) the emergency period;
(b) in the case of a notice of termination served during the emergency period, the
date immediately following the expiration of a period that consists of the
aggregate of—
4
[2020.] Residential Tenancies Act 2020. [No. 17.] S.3
(i) the period of notice given in the notice of termination, and
(ii) the unexpired period of the emergency period remaining on the date that the
notice was served.
(5) Any second or subsequent emergency period affecting a notice of termination served
in respect of the tenancy of a dwelling shall be included as appropriate in calculating
the revised termination date under subsection (4).
(6) This section shall not apply to a tenancy of a dwelling to which Part 2 of the
Residential Tenancies and Valuation Act 2020 applies.

Which means it sounds like I should get 283 days plus 10 days from the 12th of April 2021!? It doesn't state anywhere about the minimum notice period that must be given, just the period of notice given, which in my case was the 283 days.

JimmyVik

novemberbass wrote: »

cheers for the replies! That's great I don't have to give any notice... but is that definite that it's now only 224 days? And is it 224 days from the 12th or 23rd of April?

If it is only 224 days, that means I only have an additional 17 days after all that lockdown time, rather than the original eviction period of 283 days being extended, which I was sure would be the case so I had it in my head I wouldn't have to move out until early next year :eek::o:(

there was no specific mention of 283 days, just the date they wanted me to move out by, which was the 283 days from the date of notice instead of 224 days.

I thought it was the ban on evictions only during the period and not a pause on the notice clock.

houseyhouse

novemberbass wrote: »

I talked to Threshold and they seemed to think it should be 224 days, but then looking at https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/tenancies_and_covid19.html#l1bd92

It says:

"This means that the time you have left before you are due to be evicted is extended by 10 days plus the amount of time 5km restrictions are in place."

And this seems to be reinforced by the bolded part below:





Which means it sounds like I should get 283 days plus 10 days from the 12th of April 2021!? It doesn't state anywhere about the minimum notice period that must be given, just the period of notice given, which in my case was the 283 days.

But do you know how your landlord calculated those 283 days? I would guess your landlord was trying to give you the 224 + period of level 5 + 10 days but may have got the calculation wrong. Why don't you talk to your landlord about this to clear it up?

You can't take the amount your landlord said, which you calculated at 283 days, and then just add whatever you want on to it when it seems like they may have tried to account for those things to begin with. And if Threshold is saying 224, then it's 224 and not more. They are very tenant focused, they are not going to sell you short.

houseyhouse

JimmyVik wrote: »

I thought it was the ban on evictions only during the period and not a pause on the notice clock.

No. All notices were paused for the duration, including rent increases.

JimmyVik

houseyhouse wrote: »

No. All notices were paused for the duration, including rent increases.

I thought active notices were still running down the clock, even new notices given during the pause were still running the clock, but that the eviction couldnt happen during the pause and had to wait until after.


MAybe im wrong. Just thought I read that somewhere.

houseyhouse

JimmyVik wrote: »

I thought active notices were still running down the clock, even new notices given during the pause were still running the clock, but that the eviction couldnt happen during the pause and had to wait until after.


MAybe im wrong. Just thought I read that somewhere.

I'm not 100% sure because I wasn't in the process myself but I know somebody who had a rent increase due and it was delayed for the duration of the first lockdown. Perhaps it was different for the second one? I know they introduced conditions for landlords who found themselves in financial difficulty etc.

PetitPois89

The RTB website explains the emergency measures around serving notice quite well: https://www.rtb.ie/emergency-measures-ended-new-protections-introduced-for-the-rental-sector

The latest Emergency Period began on 31st December 2020 and expired on 12th April 2021. This means that notice periods that were paused can be calculated from 13th April 2021 and existing laws on how to end a tenancy apply again from 13th April 2021.

The Landlord served notice on 19th January during the emergency period taking the above reference from the RTB into account the first day of your notice is counted from 13th April 2021. As you've been a tenant for over 8 years you are entitled to 224 days notice. Based on this your notice would expire on 23rd November 2021.

For clarity I would ask your Landlord or the solicitor who served the notice for clarification however it sounds like they've given you ample time and as a few posters above stated, looks like they have accounted somewhat for the emergency period within the notice.

novemberbass

cheers!

however, on reading the actual legislation, it seems pretty clear to me that the notice period given, can only be based on the amount of days between the date notice is served and the termination of tenancy date, which in the case of the notice I received, is the 283 days. There's nothing about 224 days in my notice, nor any other amount of days or stipulations, so it can only mean it's the 283 days and if legislation states:

"(i) the period of notice given in the notice of termination, and
(ii) the unexpired period of the emergency period remaining on the date that the
notice was served."

Then this would bring the termination date into January from what I undersatnd.

houseyhouse

It sounds like you're going to do what you want either way. Even Threshold is telling you it's the 224 days and you're still insisting it's longer. I think you should discuss it with your landlord, who seems to be trying to do things correctly.

But whatever happens with all that I'd advise you to start looking for a new place now. November-January is the worst time of year to be trying to find a place to rent and your landlord might not be very sympathetic when you've already tried to squeeze an extra month out of your tenancy.

JimmyVik

houseyhouse wrote: »

It sounds like you're going to do what you want either way. Even Threshold is telling you it's the 224 days and you're still insisting it's longer. I think you should discuss it with your landlord, who seems to be trying to do things correctly.

But whatever happens with all that I'd advise you to start looking for a new place now. November-January is the worst time of year to be trying to find a place to rent and your landlord might not be very sympathetic when you've already tried to squeeze an extra month out of your tenancy.

Good point. I have a feeling come September/October a lot of the deals you can get on rentals now will start to disappear very quickly.

novemberbass

cheers again.

The person at RTB sounded unsure, the person at Threshold didn't sound 100% either. I'm sure both are just used to dealing with people being given the legal minimum amount of notice so my case might be unfamiliar to them and they have advised wrong. Looking at the legislation, I can't see it mean anything other than what it states, that the notice period given between the notice served date and eviction date, has the days of the emergency period added on, that brings it to January 22.

I'm looking at places already and may be out much sooner, but I want to know if things are difficult, what I'm legally entitled to.

TattooedLady

To be honest I don't think you're confused about it, it sounds like you just want confirmation that your way of looking at it is correct.

If you've been a tenant for 8 years chances are you've been a good tenant, don't screw up your relationship with the landlord/renting agent for the sake of a month or 2.

Take the extra few days that leave you until 22nd November. Of course if you decide you're right and don't move they won't be able to get you out before Jan 2022 anyways but if you do that you're probably screwing up your reference from them.

PetitPois89

novemberbass wrote: »

cheers again.

The person at RTB sounded unsure, the person at Threshold didn't sound 100% either. I'm sure both are just used to dealing with people being given the legal minimum amount of notice so my case might be unfamiliar to them and they have advised wrong. Looking at the legislation, I can't see it mean anything other than what it states, that the notice period given between the notice served date and eviction date, has the days of the emergency period added on, that brings it to January 22.

I'm looking at places already and may be out much sooner, but I want to know if things are difficult, what I'm legally entitled to.

Your interpretation is incorrect