Snaglist

Speakerboxx

When doing an individual snaglist after a new build is complete. How long or detailed should the list be? Do you note everything that you aren't happy with?

I have done one that has 160 items to be addressed. It was detailed but I'm particular that way. My engineer did one but isn't a fraction of what I was expecting him to have in it.

Anyone do their own and have any advice on it?

Thanks in advance.

Calahonda52

Is this a one off house?

Speakerboxx

Calahonda52 wrote: »

Is this a one off house?

Yes.

Penn

Speakerboxx wrote: »

When doing an individual snaglist after a new build is complete. How long or detailed should the list be? Do you note everything that you aren't happy with?

I have done one that has 160 items to be addressed. It was detailed but I'm particular that way. My engineer did one but isn't a fraction of what I was expecting him to have in it.

Anyone do their own and have any advice on it?

Thanks in advance.

It can depend on various circumstances. Sometimes you just list the items you want/expect to be fixed. Sometimes you list absolutely everything you can find if you're trying to hold something over the builder. Sometimes you let things go because you know the cost, time and effort of putting something right isn't going to be worth it. Sometimes you can't really include some things because they're too subjective.

Compare your list to your engineers, and see what the main items are that you want addressed that he doesn't have on his and discuss it with him. Ask why he didn't include them, do they need to be addressed etc.

Calahonda52

how much have you withheld in payments

Speakerboxx

Calahonda52 wrote: »

how much have you withheld in payments

15%

scwazrh

Put everything on a list but be prepared to accept not to have everything addressed .If you prioritise each item as high medium or low , it will let you see which items you definitely need done and which you can live with .Doubtful any builder is going to accept 160 snag items and address each one.

Speakerboxx

scwazrh wrote: »

Doubtful any builder is going to accept 160 snag items and address each one.

That's where I get to keep the final payment until complete I guess.

DOCARCH

scwazrh wrote: »

Doubtful any builder is going to accept 160 snag items and address each one.

Really all depends what they are and how the list is written/items listed? May be repetitive but simple items?

With 160 snag items, I would have suspect a lot of painting/finishing snags?

Gumbo

scwazrh wrote: »

Put everything on a list but be prepared to accept not to have everything addressed .If you prioritise each item as high medium or low , it will let you see which items you definitely need done and which you can live with .Doubtful any builder is going to accept 160 snag items and address each one.

The list can be 10 or 500 items long.
If there snags then any reputable builder will address them.

Wildly Boaring

Gumbo wrote: »

The list can be 10 or 500 items long.
If there snags then any reputable builder will address them.

Competely agree.
You're not buying a secondhand car.
A snag is a snag. Be as picky as you want, the builder will have had pickier in his time.

Your engineer may, be a bit like myself, looking with an engineer's eye. I'm terrible to notice chipped window frames etc, always looking at the structural integrity.

Speakerboxx

DOCARCH wrote: »

Really all depends what they are and how the list is written/items listed? May be repetitive but simple items?

With 160 snag items, I would have suspect a lot of painting/finishing snags?

Alot of my snags are small snags but i expect them to be fixed up. Broken plaster on walls, cracked ceilings. Poor quality work done on door fittings skirtings. Holes on walls etc. It would take half a day to close out most snags listed.

Speakerboxx

Gumbo wrote: »

The list can be 10 or 500 items long.
If there snags then any reputable builder will address them.

That's what I thought as well.

scwazrh

Gumbo wrote: »

The list can be 10 or 500 items long.
If there snags then any reputable builder will address them.

Any reputable builder wont leave 500 items on a list.Perfection isn’t industry standard but some customers think it is .

Speakerboxx

scwazrh wrote: »

Any reputable builder wont leave 500 items on a list.Perfection isn’t industry standard but some customers think it is .

Typical Irish attitude and standard with building in this country. You are paying enough for a build. You would deserve to have things put correctly for you.

scwazrh

“Typical Irish attitude “ Please do educate me on our attitude .

Speakerboxx

scwazrh wrote: »

“Typical Irish attitude “ Please do educate me on our attitude .

What I mean is that if something isn't done correctly the attitude is: it will be grand, stop being that fussy especially when it comes to building houses. When you have to pay back money for a large part of your life. You should demand everything be done correctly in house. It's not as if the house is 2nd hand or anything just saying. It's a big investment, there can't be substandards.

Penn

Speakerboxx wrote: »

Typical Irish attitude and standard with building in this country. You are paying enough for a build. You would deserve to have things put correctly for you.

I think the point being made is that with a decent builder, there won't be 500 things to list. If there is, the snagging was done far too early.

Plus, it can be subjective as to whether something is a snag or not. There are allowable/acceptable tolerances for some items that you may think is a snag, but that the builder feels meets all applicable standards and the cost, time or effort to fix is too onerous. At that point, he might refuse to fix some of those items.

Speakerboxx

Penn wrote: »

I think the point being made is that with a decent builder, there won't be 500 things to list. If there is, the snagging was done far too early.

Plus, it can be subjective as to whether something is a snag or not. There are allowable/acceptable tolerances for some items that you may think is a snag, but that the builder feels meets all applicable standards and the cost, time or effort to fix is too onerous. At that point, he might refuse to fix some of those items.

Then you get to keep final payment if he refuses to fix.

I don't mean knocking walls of houses or replacing all Windows free of charge to be done on a snag but I would expect him to fix an interior door that's not hung properly or correctly if something that's supposed to work isn't or if plasterwork is poor I would expect them to readdress.

Shaunoc

Put the 160 list here sure...

the_pen_turner

Speakerboxx wrote: »

Then you get to keep final payment if he refuses to fix.

I don't mean knocking walls of houses or replacing all Windows free of charge to be done on a snag but I would expect him to fix an interior door that's not hung properly or correctly if something that's supposed to work isn't or if plasterwork is poor I would expect them to readdress.

those kinds of things are very much outside of acceptable tolerances
any decent builder wouldnt let them get on the snag list or would fix them straight away

its really small things that you often see on snag lists that are really over board.
somepeople really go overboard especially on paint . some thing that if you get down on your knees and are 6" away from a tiny defect then it needs fixing.

danny28ryan

I had my house built back in 2005. Company did everything. I was living in Uk so was more difficult to check snags as often. I remember the fitted wardrobes had scratches on them. Maybe only light but there were many. The company "snag engineer" for want of a better term said "you can hardly see them". I said if you just bought a brand new car and it had scratches on it before you'd even sat in it, would you accept it?
Same theory I think.
One of the builders put their feet through the loft. They tried patching it but it looked horrible. It was me that came up with a solution but I wasn't happy at the time.
For me it's only when you live in the house, you really start to see snags.
When I built it was obviously Celtic Tiger times...... From what I'm seeing and hearing now it looks like we might be slowly getting back to some trades rushing jobs and being slack as they are chasing the € as quickly as they can.

scwazrh

Speakerboxx wrote: »

Then you get to keep final payment if he refuses to fix.

I hope that’s not the attitude your builder is getting from you and if it is how you are dealing with him I hope he has a watertight contract in place with you .

Under a recognised contract ,a snag list prepared by a professional usually RIAI or EI is what will be deemed as an accurate list that needs to be addressed not what a customer isn’t happy with.

Again though , perfection is not the usual requirement in house building be that right or wrong and expecting 100% on everything is setting the project up for fail.obviously poor quality work is not to be accepted but you have to be realistic in what can be achieved with site work.

Wildly Boaring

scwazrh wrote: »

and expecting 100% on everything is setting the project up for fail. .

Disagree
Got to aim for perfect.
Benchmarks are fundamental to that.
Got to accept immaterial imperfections on completion.

But aim high early

Speakerboxx

scwazrh wrote: »

Again though , perfection is not the usual requirement in house building

It should be and why wouldn't it be? It's the biggest investment you are going to make in your life for most people.

sydthebeat

Speakerboxx wrote: »

It should be and why wouldn't it be? It's the biggest investment you are going to make in your life for most people.

You've be told why already.

Buildings work to acceptable tolerances.

For example wall plastering will never ever be perfectly plumb. There are tolerances allowed and any snagger worth their salt will know what these are. A client standing at over end of the room and throwing their eye over the wall and saying "that doesnt look straight" isn't necessarily a snagging issue.
A millimeter gap at the corner of a chamfered architrave may seem unacceptable to a buyer, but may not be outside of acceptance for tolerances.

Perfection absolutely does not exist in building

Speakerboxx

sydthebeat wrote: »

You've be told why already.



Perfection absolutely does not exist in building

Not in Ireland anyway. Same as our roads. We aren't patient enough to do the job properly.


Wouldn't say the same standards apply in a country like Germany where they do everything correctly.

Speakerboxx

sydthebeat wrote: »

You've be told why already.

Buildings work to acceptable tolerances.

That all depends on whos building the build and whether the attention to detail is applied or not.

What's acceptable to you might not necessarily be acceptable to another person. The standards of building in Ireland is quiet poor to be honest.

con747

Op you have bashed the standard of building in Ireland a few times now, are you sure you want to build here at all. Why didn't you just build in Germany where they do it perfectly.

Speakerboxx

con747 wrote: »

Op you have bashed the standard of building in Ireland a few times now, are you sure you want to build here at all. Why didn't you just build in Germany where they do it perfectly.

I've built in Ireland.

con747

I know, but you cannot expect perfection no matter where you build. I know you have a long snag list and maybe it is all valid, but if the engineer has a smaller list you must meet somewhere in the middle unless he is bad at his job. Holding back 15% for the build due to that seems excessive. It is your house and your money so you call the shots though at the end of the day.

Ubbquittious

Speakerboxx wrote: »

Not in Ireland anyway. Same as our roads. We aren't patient enough to do the job properly.


Wouldn't say the same standards apply in a country like Germany where they do everything correctly.

Feck sake there are chancers and shoddy workers in Germany as well. Just like every other country

Penn

Speakerboxx wrote: »

That all depends on whos building the build and whether the attention to detail is applied or not.

What's acceptable to you might not necessarily be acceptable to another person. The standards of building in Ireland is quiet poor to be honest.

I had a client once who, among other things, decided the gap between the door and frame when the door was closed was too much. He wanted absolute minimum gap (less than 1mm if possible, just once the door still closed properly without hitting the frame). I pointed out that the gap between the door and frame was to an acceptable standard as per the regs, and as such I wasn't going to put it on the snag list as it hadn't been requested or specified that he wanted absolute minimal gap and therefore the builder wouldn't have been working to that standard, and that the work required would either create a bigger gap hinge-side, or require a new door.

I told him I wasn't going to add it to the snag list, but he could ask the builder to do it himself. I think the builder agreed to do maybe two or three of the most used doors but said he wouldn't do others without a variation.

Some of these things are subjective, and the builders have tolerances and standards they have to meet. If you're expecting more than that, I hope you made it absolutely clear to your builder from the start and that he charged accordingly. Without being able to see your snag list, we can't judge if the builders work was below standard or not.

There will always be snags, as most of the time snag inspections are carried out while some works still on-going or to flag things to be done before it's given the final run-through or lick of paint. The builder might already be aware of most of the snags already without having to be told.

Speakerboxx

Ubbquittious wrote: »

Feck sake there are chancers and shoddy workers in Germany as well. Just like every other country

I am not so sure about that.

sydthebeat

Speakerboxx wrote: »

I am not so sure about that.

of course not.....

couldnt possibly be true...

rhubarb rhubarb

Speakerboxx

sydthebeat wrote: »

of course not.....

couldnt possibly be true...

rhubarb rhubarb

Ah here come on now. Are they proper sources? Don't believe everything you read.

muffler

Speakerboxx wrote: »

Don't believe everything you read.

Your posts included in that statement?

sydthebeat

Speakerboxx wrote: »

Ah here come on now. Are they proper sources? Don't believe everything you read.

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

COMSPIRACY THEORY FORUM THIS WAY

---

>

There are none so blind.....

Speakerboxx

sydthebeat wrote: »

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

COMSPIRACY THEORY FORUM THIS WAY

---

>

There are none so blind.....

Move along now if you have nothing to add.

Speakerboxx

muffler wrote: »

Your posts included in that statement?

Good one.

muffler

Some time ago I was asked to snag a new semi-d house where the couple had already moved in. Basically it was client driven as they pointed out most of the faults but I did manage to find a few additional issues despite the house being furnished. The list was quite lengthy, maybe 40 - 50 items listed but as I said most were dictated by the client.

The guy living next door was an ex neigbour of mine so I popped in to see him when I was there. He had also just moved into his new home and on that particular day he had the Polyfilla out touching up the odd crack and the odd bit of missing plaster before he painted. The works he was doing were exactly what his neighbour wanted included in the snagging list.

But neither of them were wrong. They just had different opinions on what a contractor should be brought back to the property for.

Whether your list is 1 item long or 501 long its still a list and if reasonable should be addressed by the contractor. However, expecting sheer perfection is is pure folly.

sydthebeat

Speakerboxx wrote: »

Move along now if you have nothing to add.

its not me whos stuck LOL

Calahonda52

OP, what is acceptable is an imagined reality unless it is speced in the tender document.
eg, if you wanted 3 mm gaps between the tiles, and it ends up as four, then tough unless it was speced.

You talk about holes etc, lets see a few pictures of what is bothering you
This thread bothers me
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057988023&page=363

muffler

Calahonda52 wrote: »

This thread bothers me
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057988023&page=363

Doesnt bother me

Speakerboxx

Calahonda52 wrote: »

OP, what is acceptable is an imagined reality unless it is speced in the tender document.
eg, if you wanted 3 mm gaps between the tiles, and it ends up as four, then tough unless it was speced.

You talk about holes etc, lets see a few pictures of what is bothering you
This thread bothers me
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057988023&page=363

Very professional thanks. At least all the finishes I see here are top dollar

Speakerboxx

sydthebeat wrote: »

its not me whos stuck LOL

Me either tbh. I guess I'm just a particular fussy bOllox

Penn

Speakerboxx wrote: »

Me either tbh. I guess I'm just a particular fussy bOllox

It genuinely depends on what your snags raised were, especially the ones your engineer didn't have on his list. The truth likely falls somewhere in between. You might be right on many things, you might be expecting too much on others. But oftentimes the effort, patience and skill to get something from 95% right to 100% right really isn't worth it, especially if that 95% right version is still within all acceptable tolerances, standards and quality and doesn't cause any issues.