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Snaglist

  • 24-05-2021 12:20am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,023 ✭✭✭ Speakerboxx


    When doing an individual snaglist after a new build is complete. How long or detailed should the list be? Do you note everything that you aren't happy with?

    I have done one that has 160 items to be addressed. It was detailed but I'm particular that way. My engineer did one but isn't a fraction of what I was expecting him to have in it.

    Anyone do their own and have any advice on it?

    Thanks in advance.


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 10,926 ✭✭✭✭ Calahonda52


    Is this a one off house?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,023 ✭✭✭ Speakerboxx


    Is this a one off house?

    Yes.


  • Registered Users Posts: 30,323 ✭✭✭✭ Penn


    When doing an individual snaglist after a new build is complete. How long or detailed should the list be? Do you note everything that you aren't happy with?

    I have done one that has 160 items to be addressed. It was detailed but I'm particular that way. My engineer did one but isn't a fraction of what I was expecting him to have in it.

    Anyone do their own and have any advice on it?

    Thanks in advance.

    It can depend on various circumstances. Sometimes you just list the items you want/expect to be fixed. Sometimes you list absolutely everything you can find if you're trying to hold something over the builder. Sometimes you let things go because you know the cost, time and effort of putting something right isn't going to be worth it. Sometimes you can't really include some things because they're too subjective.

    Compare your list to your engineers, and see what the main items are that you want addressed that he doesn't have on his and discuss it with him. Ask why he didn't include them, do they need to be addressed etc.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,926 ✭✭✭✭ Calahonda52


    how much have you withheld in payments


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,023 ✭✭✭ Speakerboxx


    how much have you withheld in payments

    15%


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,089 ✭✭✭ scwazrh


    Put everything on a list but be prepared to accept not to have everything addressed .If you prioritise each item as high medium or low , it will let you see which items you definitely need done and which you can live with .Doubtful any builder is going to accept 160 snag items and address each one.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,023 ✭✭✭ Speakerboxx


    scwazrh wrote: »
    Doubtful any builder is going to accept 160 snag items and address each one.

    That's where I get to keep the final payment until complete I guess.


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 16,107 Mod ✭✭✭✭ DOCARCH


    scwazrh wrote: »
    Doubtful any builder is going to accept 160 snag items and address each one.

    Really all depends what they are and how the list is written/items listed? May be repetitive but simple items?

    With 160 snag items, I would have suspect a lot of painting/finishing snags?


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 31,283 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Gumbo


    scwazrh wrote: »
    Put everything on a list but be prepared to accept not to have everything addressed .If you prioritise each item as high medium or low , it will let you see which items you definitely need done and which you can live with .Doubtful any builder is going to accept 160 snag items and address each one.

    The list can be 10 or 500 items long.
    If there snags then any reputable builder will address them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,371 ✭✭✭ Wildly Boaring


    Gumbo wrote: »
    The list can be 10 or 500 items long.
    If there snags then any reputable builder will address them.

    Competely agree.
    You're not buying a secondhand car.
    A snag is a snag. Be as picky as you want, the builder will have had pickier in his time.

    Your engineer may, be a bit like myself, looking with an engineer's eye. I'm terrible to notice chipped window frames etc, always looking at the structural integrity.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,023 ✭✭✭ Speakerboxx


    DOCARCH wrote: »
    Really all depends what they are and how the list is written/items listed? May be repetitive but simple items?

    With 160 snag items, I would have suspect a lot of painting/finishing snags?

    Alot of my snags are small snags but i expect them to be fixed up. Broken plaster on walls, cracked ceilings. Poor quality work done on door fittings skirtings. Holes on walls etc. It would take half a day to close out most snags listed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,023 ✭✭✭ Speakerboxx


    Gumbo wrote: »
    The list can be 10 or 500 items long.
    If there snags then any reputable builder will address them.

    That's what I thought as well.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,089 ✭✭✭ scwazrh


    Gumbo wrote: »
    The list can be 10 or 500 items long.
    If there snags then any reputable builder will address them.

    Any reputable builder wont leave 500 items on a list.Perfection isn’t industry standard but some customers think it is .


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,023 ✭✭✭ Speakerboxx


    scwazrh wrote: »
    Any reputable builder wont leave 500 items on a list.Perfection isn’t industry standard but some customers think it is .

    Typical Irish attitude and standard with building in this country. You are paying enough for a build. You would deserve to have things put correctly for you.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,089 ✭✭✭ scwazrh


    “Typical Irish attitude “ Please do educate me on our attitude .


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,023 ✭✭✭ Speakerboxx


    scwazrh wrote: »
    “Typical Irish attitude “ Please do educate me on our attitude .

    What I mean is that if something isn't done correctly the attitude is: it will be grand, stop being that fussy especially when it comes to building houses. When you have to pay back money for a large part of your life. You should demand everything be done correctly in house. It's not as if the house is 2nd hand or anything just saying. It's a big investment, there can't be substandards.


  • Registered Users Posts: 30,323 ✭✭✭✭ Penn


    Typical Irish attitude and standard with building in this country. You are paying enough for a build. You would deserve to have things put correctly for you.

    I think the point being made is that with a decent builder, there won't be 500 things to list. If there is, the snagging was done far too early.

    Plus, it can be subjective as to whether something is a snag or not. There are allowable/acceptable tolerances for some items that you may think is a snag, but that the builder feels meets all applicable standards and the cost, time or effort to fix is too onerous. At that point, he might refuse to fix some of those items.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,023 ✭✭✭ Speakerboxx


    Penn wrote: »
    I think the point being made is that with a decent builder, there won't be 500 things to list. If there is, the snagging was done far too early.

    Plus, it can be subjective as to whether something is a snag or not. There are allowable/acceptable tolerances for some items that you may think is a snag, but that the builder feels meets all applicable standards and the cost, time or effort to fix is too onerous. At that point, he might refuse to fix some of those items.

    Then you get to keep final payment if he refuses to fix.

    I don't mean knocking walls of houses or replacing all Windows free of charge to be done on a snag but I would expect him to fix an interior door that's not hung properly or correctly if something that's supposed to work isn't or if plasterwork is poor I would expect them to readdress.


  • Registered Users Posts: 520 ✭✭✭ Shaunoc


    Put the 160 list here sure...


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,243 ✭✭✭ the_pen_turner


    Then you get to keep final payment if he refuses to fix.

    I don't mean knocking walls of houses or replacing all Windows free of charge to be done on a snag but I would expect him to fix an interior door that's not hung properly or correctly if something that's supposed to work isn't or if plasterwork is poor I would expect them to readdress.

    those kinds of things are very much outside of acceptable tolerances
    any decent builder wouldnt let them get on the snag list or would fix them straight away

    its really small things that you often see on snag lists that are really over board.
    somepeople really go overboard especially on paint . some thing that if you get down on your knees and are 6" away from a tiny defect then it needs fixing.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 11 ✭✭✭ danny28ryan


    I had my house built back in 2005. Company did everything. I was living in Uk so was more difficult to check snags as often. I remember the fitted wardrobes had scratches on them. Maybe only light but there were many. The company "snag engineer" for want of a better term said "you can hardly see them". I said if you just bought a brand new car and it had scratches on it before you'd even sat in it, would you accept it?
    Same theory I think.
    One of the builders put their feet through the loft. They tried patching it but it looked horrible. It was me that came up with a solution but I wasn't happy at the time.
    For me it's only when you live in the house, you really start to see snags.
    When I built it was obviously Celtic Tiger times...... From what I'm seeing and hearing now it looks like we might be slowly getting back to some trades rushing jobs and being slack as they are chasing the € as quickly as they can.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,089 ✭✭✭ scwazrh


    Then you get to keep final payment if he refuses to fix.

    I hope that’s not the attitude your builder is getting from you and if it is how you are dealing with him I hope he has a watertight contract in place with you .

    Under a recognised contract ,a snag list prepared by a professional usually RIAI or EI is what will be deemed as an accurate list that needs to be addressed not what a customer isn’t happy with.

    Again though , perfection is not the usual requirement in house building be that right or wrong and expecting 100% on everything is setting the project up for fail.obviously poor quality work is not to be accepted but you have to be realistic in what can be achieved with site work.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,371 ✭✭✭ Wildly Boaring


    scwazrh wrote: »

    and expecting 100% on everything is setting the project up for fail. .

    Disagree
    Got to aim for perfect.
    Benchmarks are fundamental to that.
    Got to accept immaterial imperfections on completion.

    But aim high early


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,023 ✭✭✭ Speakerboxx


    scwazrh wrote: »

    Again though , perfection is not the usual requirement in house building

    It should be and why wouldn't it be? It's the biggest investment you are going to make in your life for most people.


  • Subscribers Posts: 36,240 ✭✭✭✭ sydthebeat


    It should be and why wouldn't it be? It's the biggest investment you are going to make in your life for most people.

    You've be told why already.

    Buildings work to acceptable tolerances.

    For example wall plastering will never ever be perfectly plumb. There are tolerances allowed and any snagger worth their salt will know what these are. A client standing at over end of the room and throwing their eye over the wall and saying "that doesnt look straight" isn't necessarily a snagging issue.
    A millimeter gap at the corner of a chamfered architrave may seem unacceptable to a buyer, but may not be outside of acceptance for tolerances.

    Perfection absolutely does not exist in building


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,023 ✭✭✭ Speakerboxx


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    You've be told why already.



    Perfection absolutely does not exist in building

    Not in Ireland anyway. Same as our roads. We aren't patient enough to do the job properly.


    Wouldn't say the same standards apply in a country like Germany where they do everything correctly.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,023 ✭✭✭ Speakerboxx


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    You've be told why already.

    Buildings work to acceptable tolerances.

    That all depends on whos building the build and whether the attention to detail is applied or not.

    What's acceptable to you might not necessarily be acceptable to another person. The standards of building in Ireland is quiet poor to be honest.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,158 ✭✭✭ con747


    Op you have bashed the standard of building in Ireland a few times now, are you sure you want to build here at all. Why didn't you just build in Germany where they do it perfectly.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,023 ✭✭✭ Speakerboxx


    con747 wrote: »
    Op you have bashed the standard of building in Ireland a few times now, are you sure you want to build here at all. Why didn't you just build in Germany where they do it perfectly.

    I've built in Ireland.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,158 ✭✭✭ con747


    I know, but you cannot expect perfection no matter where you build. I know you have a long snag list and maybe it is all valid, but if the engineer has a smaller list you must meet somewhere in the middle unless he is bad at his job. Holding back 15% for the build due to that seems excessive. It is your house and your money so you call the shots though at the end of the day.


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