When will puppy prices go back down?

godtabh

I’m looking to get a dog for company for a dog I have already. We got him pre COVID and prices have gone up.

With things getting back to normal, would there be an expectation that prices will go back down again?

Not interested in having a debate about dog adoption.

cocker5

godtabh wrote: »

I’m looking to get a dog for company for a dog I have already. We got him pre COVID and prices have gone up.

With things getting back to normal, would there be an expectation that prices will go back down again?

Not interested in having a debate about dog adoption.

Not for a long time .. no I would expect this trend to stay for 2021 .. maybe after that

deandean

I was talking with puppy owners in the dog park last few weeks, they paid €1600 - €2300. Pretty much all crosses involving Poodles. Supply seems very limited.

Dante

We paid €1300 for a King Charles a couple of months ago, even that was way less than the going rate for similar puppys. Some were advertised for 2k, madness.

JustAThought

cocker5 wrote: »

Not for a long time .. no I would expect this trend to stay for 2021 .. maybe after that

Prices on the
main sites still selling dogs and puppies in Ireland have fallen by a fair bit for many - but not all - breeds. Of course from seller to seller this still varies and some breeds havn’t fallen in price at all - eg Bernese Mountain Dogs, Bulldogs etc.

I’ve noticed a fluctuating difference
from the eye watering heights of 2k a puppy (regardless of type) ‘down’ to 1,700 or 1,400 or 1,250. Which gives one hope - somewhat!!!!

Of course there are lots of exceptions and if the stats keep up for covid and we’re all locked back in again that may well shoot up again ;0

Knine

Reputable decent breeders have not actually put their prices up, they just cannot keep up with the demand & people do not want to wait for a puppy. Go through a Breed Club but you will need patience.

Edited to add that you won't find them selling on dodgy online sites

JustAThought

Knine wrote: »

Reputable decent breeders have not actually put their prices up, they just cannot keep up with the demand & people do not want to wait for a puppy. Go through a Breed Club but you will need patience.

Edited to add that you won't find them selling on dodgy online sites

Many of the dogs advertised on these dogey sites are advertised as IKC registered. They are getting paperwork that endorses their breed from the national standard club - so long as that anomoly is in place and the IKC REFUSES to give out individual ‘professional’ breeders names or contact details the ole Irish handshake system of friends recommending favoured friends or preferred businesses will continue.

Frankly I’m shocked the competition authority isn’t onto it.

As regards prices from professional breeders from talking to people their prices seem generally to have risen in line with the demand - thou not as sharply as seen online. On dogey sites.Of course where else can you buy dogs in this country except from dogey sites or magically extracting a list of breeders to shop around from from someone who is restricted by law from giving a list to you, and businesses who won’t or can’t advertise freely without being shinned from the club and profession they rely in to make their living. And of course the IKC refuses to allow a full list of all commercial dog breeders registered with them be published. Jobs for the boys much. It’s as much fun to find a solicitor - thou at least for them they have shops you can pass by and identify if you hang out in the right parts of town.

I notice that some well known rescue sites have also risen their rescue prices and are refusing to rescue out dogs unless people pay (in advance) for ‘specialised’ puppy training or dog training classes with them or their business partners. I don’t lame them entirely - its a tough ‘job’ but some of the issues are so extreme you’d wonder why they just don’t put the dog down instead of punishing would be rescuers with all of these costs as well as the liability of a vicious and unpredictable dog, often with mental scarring and unknown additional health issues that would be uninsurable.

withnail_is_i

I would expect lot of them to reduce in price by the end of this year, maybe not for Christmas, but after as we are nearing peak on some breeds.
Golden retrievers are around €2k at the time of writing this and a quick search of the most well known sites here shows plenty of adverts for them. Demand for them will fall beneath supply as new breeders to the market try to make some money in an already crowded section.
The prices will drop as a result. People looking for other or cheaper dogs will be more likely to buy them. Which should have a similar effect on other breeds.
I just took retriever as an example there are others that are reaching peak too.

tk123

If you’re not looking for a cross go via the breed club as they cap prices and are cheaper... you also have the benefit of a responsible breeder who is carrying out the necessary health checks, is not churning out puppies and will support you. So eg for golden retrievers google golden retriever breed club and the first two matches are the two breed clubs - there’s no secret handshakes needed to find out who the breed clubs are as suggested. Call them and they’ll have a chat to suss you out and will hopefully give you a breeder’s name if there’s puppy’s planned/available. Be prepared to wait as things don’t always go to plan - I’ve been waiting a year now and will hopefully get some news any day now

martco

our family dog passed away from old age earlier in the year
he had a brilliant life in a great home, so much attention and love and gave it back to us in spades

anyway I'm shocked and disappointed at the immense profiteering going on at present...even for young adult dogs and mongrels!

I'm never ever ever paying €2k for a dog. ever.

my theory is this is temporary and down to supply and demand...demand in particular from Covid Working From Home types

so I've decided to sit and patiently wait until they eventually find out they have to return to the workplace and it's not so handy keeping the dog properly anymore, I predict floods of dogs being available for their forever homes next year!

GingerLily

martco wrote: »

our family dog passed away from old age earlier in the year
he had a brilliant life in a great home, so much attention and love and gave it back to us in spades

anyway I'm shocked and disappointed at the immense profiteering going on at present...even for young adult dogs and mongrels!

I'm never ever ever paying €2k for a dog. ever.

my theory is this is temporary and down to supply and demand...demand in particular from Covid Working From Home types

so I've decided to sit and patiently wait until they eventually find out they have to return to the workplace and it's not so handy keeping the dog properly anymore, I predict floods of dogs being available for their forever homes next year!

Don't forget how inconvenient pets can be for families who like to travel, no way pet boarding will be able to keep up with demand, I suspect a lot of surrendered doggies

M_Murphy57

martco wrote: »

our family dog passed away from old age earlier in the year
he had a brilliant life in a great home, so much attention and love and gave it back to us in spades

anyway I'm shocked and disappointed at the immense profiteering going on at present...even for young adult dogs and mongrels!

I'm never ever ever paying €2k for a dog. ever.

my theory is this is temporary and down to supply and demand...demand in particular from Covid Working From Home types

so I've decided to sit and patiently wait until they eventually find out they have to return to the workplace and it's not so handy keeping the dog properly anymore, I predict floods of dogs being available for their forever homes next year!

Many offices are talking about september returns. Add in the return of all our pre covid activities (like kids indoor classes) , dark evenings and many covid pooches hitting adolescence by this autumn i suspect there will be a massive amount of surrenders this autumn (sadly because people suck) which *should* reduce prices.

Unfortunately rescue dogs seem to be impossible to get too. I know people who gave up after over a year of applying to rescue charities and ended up buying.

Places like <snip> etc need to widen their extremely narrow criteria for who they will give dogs too. Otherwise they are just driving people into buying dogs from puppy farms at exorbitant prices.

tk123

COVID started last year..we’ve already had winter, holiday season, different sectors opening up and going back to work ..those of us who are still WFH - many of us are now permanently WFH or were already in a position where it was flexible enough... so I can’t really see tons and tons of dogs magically appearing in rescues like people predicted would happen last year - more likely after forking out so much they’ll be sold on.

M_Murphy57

tk123 wrote: »

COVID started last year..we’ve already had winter, holiday season, different sectors opening up and going back to work ..those of us who are still WFH - many of us are now permanently WFH or were already in a position where it was flexible enough... so I can’t really see tons and tons of dogs magically appearing in rescues like people predicted would happen last year - more likely after forking out so much they’ll be sold on.

But with a rake of unwanted teenage dogs coming up for sale all looking thousands for them, with an increasingly smaller pool of buyers (at some point everyone who wanted covid puppy will have/had one) prices will still fall.

Currently demand outstrips supply. That will definitely flip next year and the only way for prices to go is down.

People who cant unload very badly behaved* dogs will either abandon or surrender them and they will end up in rescue centres. The availability of "Free" dogs will also drive down prices for those trying to sell their unwanted pups on.

This current insane market/demand is entirely unsustainable- it's the dog equivalent of the 07 property bubble. Or Furbies or Hatchimals. Eventually saturation is reached (sadly for the poor pooches) and prices collapse.

*irresponsible owners entirely to blame

muddypaws

JustAThought wrote: »

Many of the dogs advertised on these dogey sites are advertised as IKC registered. They are getting paperwork that endorses their breed from the national standard club - so long as that anomoly is in place and the IKC REFUSES to give out individual ‘professional’ breeders names or contact details the ole Irish handshake system of friends recommending favoured friends or preferred businesses will continue.

Frankly I’m shocked the competition authority isn’t onto it.

As regards prices from professional breeders from talking to people their prices seem generally to have risen in line with the demand - thou not as sharply as seen online. On dogey sites.Of course where else can you buy dogs in this country except from dogey sites or magically extracting a list of breeders to shop around from from someone who is restricted by law from giving a list to you, and businesses who won’t or can’t advertise freely without being shinned from the club and profession they rely in to make their living. And of course the IKC refuses to allow a full list of all commercial dog breeders registered with them be published. Jobs for the boys much. It’s as much fun to find a solicitor - thou at least for them they have shops you can pass by and identify if you hang out in the right parts of town.

I notice that some well known rescue sites have also risen their rescue prices and are refusing to rescue out dogs unless people pay (in advance) for ‘specialised’ puppy training or dog training classes with them or their business partners. I don’t lame them entirely - its a tough ‘job’ but some of the issues are so extreme you’d wonder why they just don’t put the dog down instead of punishing would be rescuers with all of these costs as well as the liability of a vicious and unpredictable dog, often with mental scarring and unknown additional health issues that would be uninsurable.

Having read knine's post twice now, I see absolutely no mention of professional breeders. Reputable breeders are certainly not professional, as that would imply earning a living from it - that would be a puppy farmer

ocallagh

JustAThought wrote: »

Many of the dogs advertised on these dogey sites are advertised as IKC registered. They are getting paperwork that endorses their breed from the national standard club - so long as that anomoly is in place and the IKC REFUSES to give out individual ‘professional’ breeders names or contact details the ole Irish handshake system of friends recommending favoured friends or preferred businesses will continue.

Frankly I’m shocked the competition authority isn’t onto it.

As regards prices from professional breeders from talking to people their prices seem generally to have risen in line with the demand - thou not as sharply as seen online. On dogey sites.Of course where else can you buy dogs in this country except from dogey sites or magically extracting a list of breeders to shop around from from someone who is restricted by law from giving a list to you, and businesses who won’t or can’t advertise freely without being shinned from the club and profession they rely in to make their living. And of course the IKC refuses to allow a full list of all commercial dog breeders registered with them be published. Jobs for the boys much. It’s as much fun to find a solicitor - thou at least for them they have shops you can pass by and identify if you hang out in the right parts of town.

I notice that some well known rescue sites have also risen their rescue prices and are refusing to rescue out dogs unless people pay (in advance) for ‘specialised’ puppy training or dog training classes with them or their business partners. I don’t lame them entirely - its a tough ‘job’ but some of the issues are so extreme you’d wonder why they just don’t put the dog down instead of punishing would be rescuers with all of these costs as well as the liability of a vicious and unpredictable dog, often with mental scarring and unknown additional health issues that would be uninsurable.

Hi, this was also my experience with the IKC 15 years ago, and it's a pity to hear it's still the case when trying to find a dog.

The IKC were incredibly difficult to contact, a mixture of unattended websites, hotmail and eircom email addresses that bounced back / never responded, and phone numbers that went nowhere. I spent about a week earnestly trying this route to no avail.

I ended up on done deal and had the dog found within the hour.

A lot of the advice I have heard and seen is to use a proper / professional breeder. I get the sense that those offering this advice are just echoing what they heard themselves, and they haven't gone through the process of buying a dog themselves in Ireland.

I would actually go so far as to say the IKC is doing considerable damage, and is a major blocker for change / adapting to a higher demand for dog ownership in Ireland.

tk123

I’ve got one from a responsible breeder and hopefully another one on the way... I turned down more than one dodgy breeder messaging me on FB knowing nothing about me, my circumstances, how i might treat a pup etc etc because a member of the breed club pages. I’ve been waiting a year now because I’m willing to wait for the right pup.

People often to like to blame the IKC to justify buying from a puppy farmer. Buying a dog IMO shouldn't be as easy as buying a pizza - this is why we have massive welfare issues in this country - people buy on a whim and they’re not willing to wait and get bored.

Also it’s not the IKCs job to find pups for people - the same way we don’t call the motor tax office if we want to buy a car or blame the NCT if there’s a problem.

Heebie

There are a huge number of people who got dogs for company during covid who are "dumping" them at shelters.
Adopt one instead of buying one.
You'll spend less money, and you'll be doing a good deed.

tk123

The OP wants to buy a pup and is not interested in rescuing...

ocallagh

tk123 wrote: »

I’ve got one from a responsible breeder and hopefully another one on the way... I turned down more than one dodgy breeder messaging me on FB knowing nothing about me, my circumstances, how i might treat a pup etc etc because a member of the breed club pages. I’ve been waiting a year now because I’m willing to wait for the right pup.

People often to like to blame the IKC to justify buying from a puppy farmer. Buying a dog IMO shouldn't be as easy as buying a pizza - this is why we have massive welfare issues in this country - people buy on a whim and they’re not willing to wait and get bored.

Also it’s not the IKCs job to find pups for people - the same way we don’t call the motor tax office if we want to buy a car or blame the NCT if there’s a problem.

According to their website, "The Irish Kennel Club promotes the responsible ownership and breeding of dogs throughout Ireland through education, registration, training and support schemes and events"

A major part of ownership/breeding a dog is the purchase/sales process, so I would like to think the IKC has a responsibility here, unlike the motor tax office with cars.

It's not comparable to the motor tax office, or buying a car.

M_Murphy57

tk123 wrote: »

The OP wants to buy a pup and is not interested in rescuing...

Most of those charities also refuse to give out the dogs to most types of applicants (eg people with kids or who arent at home 100% of the time) , thereby driving people to shop not adopt and making the problem worse.

godtabh

tk123 wrote: »

The OP wants to buy a pup and is not interested in rescuing...

The lecture comes for free

borderlinemeath

ocallagh wrote: »

Hi, this was also my experience with the IKC 15 years ago, and it's a pity to hear it's still the case when trying to find a dog.

The IKC were incredibly difficult to contact, a mixture of unattended websites, hotmail and eircom email addresses that bounced back / never responded, and phone numbers that went nowhere. I spent about a week earnestly trying this route to no avail.

I ended up on done deal and had the dog found within the hour.

There's people on waiting lists for a year or more for the right pup but to you a week is a long time for an organisation to get back to you.

Then you found one online in an hour. It's not a new shirt you're buying. It's a living creature, that you would hope will give your family years of happiness. Fulfilling an immediate need is what got puppy farmers in Ireland to be the most successful in Europe.

I would actually go so far as to say the IKC is doing considerable damage, and is a major blocker for change / adapting to a higher demand for dog ownership in Ireland.

It's the puppy farmers are facilitating the higher demand. Regardless of whether the IKC took a more proactive role, good breeders haven't been breeding during the pandemic. And the bheavioural problems are becoming evident. Not everyone needs a dog. Not everyone can give a dog the loving home and socialisation it deserves. And a lot don't. Other countries in Europe insist that pet owners take a course in pet ownership before letting people just go out and buy a dog on a whim. I really wish we could do the same.

Knine

ocallagh wrote: »

According to their website, "The Irish Kennel Club promotes the responsible ownership and breeding of dogs throughout Ireland through education, registration, training and support schemes and events"

A major part of ownership/breeding a dog is the purchase/sales process, so I would like to think the IKC has a responsibility here, unlike the motor tax office with cars.

It's not comparable to the motor tax office, or buying a car.

The Reputable Breed Clubs are all listed on their website.

You do realise that these people are not puppy farmers? That they all also lead busy lives with jobs, kids etc. That the decent Breeders are usually hobby Breeders with other full time jobs, commitments in order to fund their dogs.

I've had people contact me at 2am looking for puppies, contacting me at 9pm on a Saturday night looking for my PB dog to cover their cross breed. Absolutely inundated with puppy inquiries. PM's here too. One just said " Any puppies?" Nothing else. Others looking specifically for female puppies. The very day the last lock down was mentioned in the news, I counted 29 messages looking for a puppy.

The IKC is the registry for pedigree dogs & runs many events throughout the year & meetings in a normal year which I am part of. Due to Covid we have not been able to have any or any shows/events etc.

The vast majority of people want a puppy & they want one now.

Jimmy Bottlehead

It's awful to hear of the jump-to attitude of so many because they're bored and expect a dog to fill that gap for them.

Like several people said, there'll be a lot of abandoned dogs when Lockdown goes away and people are 'inconvenienced' by the needs of an animal they decided to take on.

Seeking out pure-breds for no reason consistently annoys me. The love of a pet doesn't fluctuate depending on how inbred it is.

Knine

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

Seeking out pure-breds for no reason consistently annoys me. The love of a pet doesn't fluctuate depending on how inbred it is.

I agree with your first part but the majority of pure breeds are not inbred but you have no idea of the parentage of crosses & especially anything that originated from a puppy farmer, that includes many rescues

ocallagh

borderlinemeath wrote: »

There's people on waiting lists for a year or more for the right pup but to you a week is a long time for an organisation to get back to you.

Then you found one online in an hour. It's not a new shirt you're buying. It's a living creature, that you would hope will give your family years of happiness. Fulfilling an immediate need is what got puppy farmers in Ireland to be the most successful in Europe.





It's the puppy farmers are facilitating the higher demand. Regardless of whether the IKC took a more proactive role, good breeders haven't been breeding during the pandemic. And the bheavioural problems are becoming evident. Not everyone needs a dog. Not everyone can give a dog the loving home and socialisation it deserves. And a lot don't. Other countries in Europe insist that pet owners take a course in pet ownership before letting people just go out and buy a dog on a whim. I really wish we could do the same.

It didn't fill an immediate need. We have had dogs all our lives, and we had long wanted a second dog for our other. By the time we had made up our minds, we visited a few shelters first, and then started to research other options for getting a dog. And I didn't get in touch with the IKC, I tried many times but after a week gave up. We checked supermarket notice boards, friends who might have a litter, and then found DD who had a number of breeders with dogs available.

If I was to do it again, I would 100% take another route, and avoid online sites. I'm not saying what I did was right, but I had no idea of puppy farms back then or any of the dangers of purchasing online. And it was prob more like 5 mins to find a breeder who had a dog available, not the hour as mentioned.

Anyway, my experience doesn't really matter.

My main point is that the IKC or the government should be doing a lot more, and until they do, the supply will always be there to meet the demand. You mentioned other countries in Europe insist that pet owners take a course in pet ownership. This is a great idea and would be great to see the IKC or some other organisation promote this within the government.

borderlinemeath

ocallagh wrote: »

My main point is that the IKC or the government should be doing a lot more, and until they do, the supply will always be there to meet the demand. You mentioned other countries in Europe insist that pet owners take a course in pet ownership. This is a great idea and would be great to see the IKC or some other organisation promote this within the government.

Right now nobody should be filling supply. Demand has only shot up since last year and we haven't been living in normal times and that is showing with the current crop of "pandemic dogs". A lady was telling me last week that she finally got to invite her parents around to her house for the first time since last year. Her new dog sat there and barked solidly at them for 3 hours until they left.

Lockdown and social distancing have left dogs with poor coping mechanisms for normal life ie - strangers and extended family in the home, meeting other dogs and people in the park, meeting friends, going to other peoples homes and the big one, separation anxiety. All these new dogs have barely left their owners sides 24/7 and are terrified to be alone or away from them. I don't think we should be encouraging more pet ownership until we can get to a stage where we ourselves can behave normally again, otherwise dogs will get into an "abnormal" routine, where even going out for a family dinner will cause trauma for a dog.

Feets

The dogs that are off market ..lets call them happy accidents, are selling cheaper. I knoe someone buying a small dog for 500e next week.

Knine

ocallagh wrote: »

My main point is that the IKC or the government should be doing a lot more, and until they do, the supply will always be there to meet the demand. You mentioned other countries in Europe insist that pet owners take a course in pet ownership. This is a great idea and would be great to see the IKC or some other organisation promote this within the government.

What would you suggest the IKC or government does?

You are talking about Hobby Breeders here that as I mentioned have other commitments also. The IKC runs many educational seminars before Covid hit but you never see Joe Public at them.

No matter how much the IKC promotes responsible ownership, mostly people ignore it & buy from puppy farmers.

Knine

Feets wrote: »

The dogs that are off market ..lets call them happy accidents, are selling cheaper. I knoe someone buying a small dog for 500e next week.

A happy accident for €500? Wow.

Anyone paying that needs to give their head a wobble

ocallagh

Knine wrote: »

No matter how much the IKC promotes responsible ownership, mostly people ignore it & buy from puppy farmers.

And why do you think that is?

Knine

ocallagh wrote: »

And why do you think that is?

I know exactly why. As I am a Breed Club Rep. Nobody has any patience & don't want to wait for a puppy. They think Reputable Breeders churn them out like food on Tesco shelves.

ocallagh

borderlinemeath wrote: »

Right now nobody should be filling supply. Demand has only shot up since last year and we haven't been living in normal times and that is showing with the current crop of "pandemic dogs". A lady was telling me last week that she finally got to invite her parents around to her house for the first time since last year. Her new dog sat there and barked solidly at them for 3 hours until they left.

Lockdown and social distancing have left dogs with poor coping mechanisms for normal life ie - strangers and extended family in the home, meeting other dogs and people in the park, meeting friends, going to other peoples homes and the big one, separation anxiety. All these new dogs have barely left their owners sides 24/7 and are terrified to be alone or away from them. I don't think we should be encouraging more pet ownership until we can get to a stage where we ourselves can behave normally again, otherwise dogs will get into an "abnormal" routine, where even going out for a family dinner will cause trauma for a dog.

I completely agree with you.. we shouldn't be filling supply, and my point was, without somebody doing something about it, the supply will always be there, ie: puppy farms and dodgy sites.

ocallagh

Knine wrote: »

Nobody has any patience & don't want to wait for a puppy. They think Reputable Breeders churn them out like food on Tesco shelves.

I do agree in regards lack of patience, but I also believe they buy from online sites (and inevitably puppy farms) because they don't know any better and it's a far easier process, and there is nothing to suggest to them they are doing anything wrong. This is my experience anyway.

And like most things in society, if the general pop is getting something wrong, they need help to educate them or to regulate them. I don't see either of these things happening

Knine

ocallagh wrote: »

I do agree in regards lack of patience, but I also believe they buy from online sites (and inevitably puppy farms) because they don't know any better and it's a far easier process, and there is nothing to suggest to them they are doing anything wrong. This is my experience anyway.

And like most things in society, if the general pop is getting something wrong, they need help to educate them or to regulate them. I don't see either of these things happening

Ah here there is plenty of education out there about not buying online, Certain popular websites at least made an effort & removed the dog section but someone else just cashed in! Still people buy off these sites, meet in car parks etc. Then start crying & blaming ' Breeders' when something goes wrong!

Just look.at the previous post about happy accidents for €500. The IKC do have regulations/ code of ethics but they don"t have power beyond that. You really are not getting it

borderlinemeath

ocallagh wrote: »

I completely agree with you.. we shouldn't be filling supply, and my point was, without somebody doing something about it, the supply will always be there, ie: puppy farms and dodgy sites.

That's not the IKCs fault, that's purely down to the government legalising puppy farming.

sillysmiles

borderlinemeath wrote: »

That's not the IKCs fault, that's purely down to the government legalising puppy farming.

^ This

Regardless of your thoughts on pure breed/cross bred/IKC and buying vs adopting - the main problem (imo) is that we have puppy farms that were legalised and there is no checks, inspections, random spot checks on the most of these places.

I'm not getting into the rights or wrongs of farming dogs for sale - but once is was legalised (and I can't remember the number of breeding bitches an establishment is allowed to have) then there was also a responsibility on the government through the dept of agriculture to appropriately monitor these places.

jimf

exactly what is a professional breeder imho they are also known as puppy farms

reputable breeder somebody who has pups once in a while and then because they want to better the breed and keep some for themselves