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Planning Permission for wind turbines

  • 21-05-2021 10:49pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 29 Crystalsun


    Hi,

    A windfarm company has been granted permission to build 3 windmills on my neighbours land. That's seems fine but the access to the site is over my land via a right of way that was only registered with the Property registration authority unbeknownst to me early last year. No one contacted me to ask. I pointed this out to the Planning authority and made a submisision stating that I owned the land and never gave permission to anyone to get a right of way over my land. They still gave planning permission . Obviously , i have a solicitor on board but we didn't expect this the county council to do this. Is appealing a waste of time , money and effort . If there are any other solicitors out there with specialist knowledge in this , I'd love to hear opinions regarding all possible legal avenues ( high court injucntions, supreme court , european court etc. Before I give up on Ireland .


Comments

  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 31,264 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Gumbo


    Crystalsun wrote: »
    Hi,

    A windfarm company has been granted permission to build 3 windmills on my neighbours land. That's seems fine but the access to the site is over my land via a right of way that was only registered with the Property registration authority unbeknownst to me early last year. No one contacted me to ask. I pointed this out to the Planning authority and made a submisision stating that I owned the land and never gave permission to anyone to get a right of way over my land. They still gave planning permission . Obviously , i have a solicitor on board but we didn't expect this the county council to do this. Is appealing a waste of time , money and effort . If there are any other solicitors out there with specialist knowledge in this , I'd love to hear opinions regarding all possible legal avenues ( high court injucntions, supreme court , european court etc. Before I give up on Ireland .

    The planning process ignores the civil process.
    The planners won’t refuse planning over a right of way issue. That’s a civil matter between you and the other owner.

    Does the applicant have a right of way over the land too?


  • Registered Users Posts: 29 Crystalsun


    Gumbo wrote: »
    The planning process ignores the civil process.
    The planners won’t refuse planning over a right of way issue. That’s a civil matter between you and the other owner.

    Does the applicant have a right of way over the land too?


    Thank you for that Gumbo . I was thinking of that regarding the civil matter but it's good to hear it coming from someone else.

    The applicant is the windfarm company. The owner of the land ( he bought it 3 years ago) registered his right of way with the Property Registration company . There is no mention of the windfarm company as having a right of way in the folio when you open it on PRAI website and it's not stated in planning documents .

    So no , The windfarm company don't seem to officially have a right of way.

    However my fear is that , the landowner will now sell the land to the windfarm company and they will have the right of way with it.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 31,264 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Gumbo


    Crystalsun wrote: »
    Thank you for that Gumbo . I was thinking of that regarding the civil matter but it's good to hear it coming from someone else.

    The applicant is the windfarm company. The owner of the land ( he bought it 3 years ago) registered his right of way with the Property Registration company . There is no mention of the windfarm company as having a right of way in the folio when you open it on PRAI website and it's not stated in planning documents .

    So no , The windfarm company don't seem to officially have a right of way.

    However my fear is that , the landowner will now sell the land to the windfarm company and they will have the right of way with it.

    Does the landowner have right of way too access the site.
    The landowner can allow his tenant (the wind farm company) use this right of way ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 29 Crystalsun


    Gumbo wrote: »
    Does the landowner have right of way too access the site.
    The landowner can allow his tenant (the wind farm company) use this right of way ?

    The landowner never used this route and it wasn't the only way to access the site. The right of way was only officially registered with PRAI last year without my knowledge. I probably wouldn't have objected in any case I would have assumed it just meant crossing stone and field to check on cattle. My solicitor is looking into this as right of way couldn't possibly allow for the knocking of a wall and crossing the land with track machines. The normal route to access the site is through a bog which is why this alternative right of way was probably forced through as the track machines to dig wind turbine bases wouldn't have been abe to access the site otherwise.

    I can understand why the council probably gave permission regardless of means of access. It's because in theory the windfarm could be built using massive helicoipters ( in theory)


    I need to find confirmation that a right of way in a rural agricualtural context only means permission to walk or drive cattle etc and not to build a haul road for buulding a windfarm.

    I don't know if ill bother pursuing it with the money involved getting legal advice that will probably come to nought.


  • Registered Users Posts: 644 ✭✭✭ hurikane


    Sounds like Hugh McElvaney got it all sorted.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,925 ✭✭✭✭ Calahonda52


    you might post it over in Legal, I find it strange that someone can register a RoW across your land without your consent, given the huge issues with trying to get greenways etc

    Where are power cables routed: in the right of way?
    How are fixed from a liability view point if someone claims for some toe stub on the RoW?


  • Registered Users Posts: 29 Crystalsun


    you might post it over in Legal, I find it strange that someone can register a RoW across your land without your consent, given the huge issues with trying to get greenways etc

    Where are power cables routed: in the right of way?
    How are fixed from a liability view point if someone claims for some toe stub on the RoW?

    Cables were shown in the right of way on the planning application and council gave permsiison for it. But as Gumbo pointed out above the county council are not interested in land issues / disputes. I suppose its to be expected as it would open up lots of cans of worms for them if they went down that road.


  • Registered Users Posts: 30,510 ✭✭✭✭ Lumen


    Land law can be fairly arcane, and the Legal Discussion forum won't give advice.

    You're really best off relying on a good solicitor with experience in land law. They will help you work out whether it's worth pursuing.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,925 ✭✭✭✭ Calahonda52


    Lumen wrote: »
    Land law can be fairly arcane, and the Legal Discussion forum won't give advice.

    You're really best off relying on a good solicitor with experience in land law. They will help you work out whether it's worth pursuing.

    I know they do don't do advice but at least we might get some answer as to whether it is possible to get a right of way without the owners consent.
    .
    No wonder we have gun toting farmers


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,884 ✭✭✭ chooseusername


    I know they do don't do advice but at least we might get some answer as to whether it is possible to get a right of way without the owners consent.
    .
    No wonder we have gun toting farmers
    As I read it, the right of way was already established as one of two rights of way
    to the land in question.
    The new owner just registered it as it is the more suitable for access.
    You can't just bulldoze a new right of way over someone's property without consulting them.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 143 ✭✭ Hagimalone


    That's seems fine but the access to the site is over my land via a right of way that was only registered with the Property registration authority unbeknownst to me early last year.


    Is your main issue not with the PRA & not the council? Never knew it would be possible to register a right of way over a property with out the landowners consent. Could be wrong, but it seems strange. Good legal advice needed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 30,510 ✭✭✭✭ Lumen


    I know they do don't do advice but at least we might get some answer as to whether it is possible to get a right of way without the owners consent.
    I'm straying out of my layman's understanding of land law (honestly, it's hard even for people who are practicing it), but I believe it is possible.

    But again, assume nothing with land law. It's mental.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The RoW might have existed for years unbeknownst to you (how long have you owned the land?), registration on PRAI is just registering it, not creating it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16 Colin Clarke


    Hagimalone wrote: »
    That's seems fine but the access to the site is over my land via a right of way that was only registered with the Property registration authority unbeknownst to me early last year.


    Is your main issue not with the PRA & not the council? Never knew it would be possible to register a right of way over a property with out the landowners consent. Could be wrong, but it seems strange. Good legal advice needed.

    Good legal advice is definitely required, but to the best of my knowledge access rights do not allow any alterations or use of any vehicle or equipment which may cause damage without written consent of the property owner. One would think that bring heavy construction vehicles and equipment over your land they would need your consent or a court order. I hope you don't live too near this site, these turbines can be noisy. I live 2 km away from some and they can be heard when at full spin. It's a constant loud hum.


  • Registered Users Posts: 29 Crystalsun


    The RoW might have existed for years unbeknownst to you (how long have you owned the land?), registration on PRAI is just registering it, not creating it.

    Land is in family for at least 100 years, mine 20 years. As I mentioned above this is not the only route to access the site, but its the only route to access the site without sinking into a bog on the side of a hill.

    For the prai to register a right of way is one thing, but the county council have overlooked the fact that the right of way is no just walking or cattle driving access but it will involve track machines and concrete lorries and cranes crossing the land albeit on a temporary basis.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Crystalsun wrote: »
    Land is in family for at least 100 years, mine 20 years. As I mentioned above this is not the only route to access the site, but its the only route to access the site without sinking into a bog on the side of a hill.

    For the prai to register a right of way is one thing, but the county council have overlooked the fact that the right of way is no just walking or cattle driving access but it will involve track machines and concrete lorries and cranes crossing the land albeit on a temporary basis.

    You need a solicitor!


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