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Cork suburban rail expansion

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 15,651 ✭✭✭✭ LXFlyer


    What more do you need?

    That’s three through platforms, and two south facing bays.

    I doubt Cork will need much more than that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,249 ✭✭✭ hans aus dtschl


    Might be nice if they put two platforms there (Eastbound and Westbound) and had all of the Cobh/Midleton Trains come through, as it's a couple of hundred metres closer to the city centre.

    To be honest my biggest desire is that Kent station would get some kind of shopping facilities to help generate more revenue for IÉ and make "getting the train home" a really nice daily commute.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,312 ✭✭✭ AngryLips


    If Kent were to fulfill its full potential then it would be the terminus of frequent suburban services to Tralee and Limerick in addition to Dublin intercity and a Dart-like commuter service. As it is, the Tralee line points the wrong way and there's no rail to Limerick even as Government plans a motorway there...



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,256 ✭✭✭✭ Cookiemunster


    Part of the remit of the N/M20 scheme is a rail link. It looks like it will be adding a direct turn at Limerick Junction and double tracking into Colbert (as planned under the draft LSMATS).



  • Registered Users Posts: 653 ✭✭✭ Economics101


    Cork-Limerick already has a direct route through Limerick Junction, albeit single track. Not exactly the most critical bottleneck on the rail system.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,211 ✭✭✭ Pete_Cavan


    I think it is wishful thinking to say the N/M20 scheme "looks like" including double tracking into Colbert. How many trains between Limerick and Cork/Waterford would you need to justify double tracking?



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,036 ✭✭✭✭ Geuze


    A train for Dublin should depart from Limerick each hour.

    A train for Cork should depart from Limerick each hour.

    So there should be 2 tph each way on the branch to Limerick, plus any Waterford trains.

    Can that be managed on a single track?



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,256 ✭✭✭✭ Cookiemunster


    Except that's not what I said. The double tracking is listed in the draft LSMATS and IE have plans to do it. There is currently an hourly direct service between Limerick and Dublin and an hourly service to the junction using the single track at very slow speeds. If the plan to reopen the Foynes line for freight gets off the ground, this traffic would also use the line. Just as the road between the two cities need upgrading, so does the rail line.

    The bit I said looked like being included as the rail option of the N/M20 is a direct loop to avoid Limerick Junction station to connect to that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,094 ✭✭✭ cgcsb


    Dublin to Cork services will likely have their frequencies increased to half hourly and some line speed improvements in the coming years. It would only be logical to have a shuttle from Limerick Junction to Limerick to meet the more frequent trains so Double tracking would be a must on the Limerick to Limerick junction line.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,211 ✭✭✭ Pete_Cavan


    A half hourly shuttle wouldn't justify the cost of double tracking and there isn't commuter potential on the line. A passing loop will do the job at a fractionofthe price. I doubt we'll see a half hourly service between Dublin and Cork anytime soon, the rolling stock requirements would be big. Money would be better spent on improving the line via Nenagh where at least there are commuters.

    The Cork Suburban services will take most of the Mallow passengers, freeing some capacity on the Cork end, the quad tracking into Heuston might see more services from Portlaoise to Dublin on the other end. An hourly service plus a couple of peak time express services between Dublin and Cork would be enough, that could achieve an attractive journey time with the planned speed improvements.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 27,204 ✭✭✭✭ end of the road


    limerick to lj is so short that a passing loop may as well just be double track anyway so a passing loop wouldn't really be at a fraction of the cost when it comes down to actually getting it done.

    rolling stock for a half hourly cork service wouldn't be that big, double what exists if even which is not that much in the great scheme of things, but yes personally i can't see that frequency either.

    julian the journalist asange is innocent, free julian the journalist.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,651 ✭✭✭✭ LXFlyer


    I think you’ll be proven wrong regarding Limerick to Limerick Junction. I think of all the proposed mainline rail projects, it’s the most likely to happen.

    The line is already double track to Killonan Junction and there is already a passing loop at Dromkeen.

    It is very tightly scheduled at Killonan as it is to offer the connections at Limerick Junction.

    In the greater scheme of things it’s not a mega project to double Killonan to Dromkeen and Dromkeen to Limerick Junction.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,235 ✭✭✭✭ loyatemu


    Lmk-LJ is 35km or so, even a 10km passing loop would be much cheaper than doing the whole thing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,094 ✭✭✭ cgcsb


    How long would a passing loop have to be? The half hourly shuttle wouldnt be the only service, there's also direct trains to Dublin and Cork, most likely hourly. Might aswel double track the whole route. There'll be 4 trains per hour per direction at least. Not doable on single track, where current journeys are 25 mins.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,094 ✭✭✭ cgcsb


    In 2019 every Dublin Cork train I got on was wedged to the roof. If we get line speed improvements to the tune of 2hr journeys you'll get a huge uptake. A similar road journey is 3 hrs and we're supposed to be targeting reduced road journeys according to policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,204 ✭✭✭✭ end of the road


    I know, i wasn't saying it isn't viable as it clearly is, what i was saying was that i can't see it being done for "reasons"

    it is very clear it should be done.

    julian the journalist asange is innocent, free julian the journalist.



  • Registered Users Posts: 653 ✭✭✭ Economics101


    The €60m appears to be just for Signalling and Telecommunications upgrade. What about associated track and Station works? I guess that rolling stock is already spoken for in the recent Alstom order. Very little practical information as to what is involved.

    Seems very expensive as the existing infrastructure can cope with (a) half-hourly frequency to both Cobh and Midleton, and (b) 4-car trains as opposed to the existing 2-car. I know that investment in extra capacity will be needed for Cork-Mallow, but €60m (plus) seems a lot of money.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,036 ✭✭✭✭ Geuze



    Why is a Railway Order planning permission even needed?

    If a single track is being replaced with twin tracks, without any land acquisition or new structures, then IMHO, no planning permission should be needed.



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  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,279 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Peregrine


    It's for resignalling of 60km of the network. That's not cheap. Cobh and Middleton will need 10 minute headways each. 5 minutes from Kent to Glounthaune.

    For comparison, Dublin's City Centre Resignalling Project cost €120m.

    Twin tracking and Kent Station upgrades aren't part of this contract. That's a different section of the project and will be built by someone else.



  • Registered Users Posts: 161 ✭✭ specialbyte


    I wish we didn't need to delay this project with planning permission but this project almost certainly does need some level of planning permission. Without seeing the planning particulars there are two areas I can for-see that move this project from simple engineering works, that don't need planning permission, into something that would require planning permission. The first is the existing bridge over the Owenacurra River in Midleton isn't capable of being twin tracked. This will likely require a new bridge or widening of the existing bridge, building a structure, particular a new bridge requires planning permission. The other is dealing with the small number of level crossings along the route. Building a new road over the railway (a new structure) or closing the public right of way requires planning permission.

    I strongly suspect that the EIA screening of the project will show that there is a *potential* of likely significant environmental impact (a low bar) so much so that they will be required to do an Environmental Impact Assessment Report, which will require Irish Rail to identify all environmental impacts in areas like noise/vibration, air pollution, hydrology, human health etc.

    We'll see what ABP's decision is on the pre-application consultation is on 14th June.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,211 ✭✭✭ Pete_Cavan


    The tender clearly is just for Signalling and Telecommunications upgrades, tat is obvious from the notice.

    The funding is linked to EU's Covid recovery fund, so has to be spent fairly quickly. Ths work can be done without pp so makes sense to push ahead with it now. Track and station works will require pp and additional design work, assessments, etc.

    The cost doesn't sound unreasonable for the 62km of track between Mallow and Middleton/Cobh.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,857 ✭✭✭✭ namloc1980


    That's a big step up in frequency. I can see a lot of virtually empty trains running during the day.



  • Registered Users Posts: 37,077 ✭✭✭✭ Itssoeasy


    Ah that answers a question I’ve had since I walk on the road along the river a lot and so i saw two piles of what look like ballast sitting on the right side of the line at what was tivoli station.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,249 ✭✭✭ hans aus dtschl


    Nothing about bridge widths at Glonuthaune/Carrigtohill. They must be considered wide enough for the twin track.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 653 ✭✭✭ Economics101


    I disagree. Budgets are limited and you always need to look for cost-effective and affordable options. If I had €100m to spend on capacity improvements I would do 10km on Limerick to Lim Jcn and 15km or so between Athlone an Portarlington, plus extending 4 tracks from Cherry Orchard to Inchicore. The trouble is we do literally almost nothing to improve capacity as it is.

    I'm not sure whether doubling on the Midleton line would be my priority by the way. It's probably done because there is special earmarked EU money at stake.



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