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Cork suburban rail expansion



  • Registered Users Posts: 483 ✭✭ RetroEncabulator

    Why would it just reuse a brand designed for a different city? That defeats the purpose of a city brand. The whole point is to integrate it with the city it’s actually in and have something that identifies with the place it is. That’s how it’s done right across Europe.

    It needs to be slick looking and identifiable as being associated with Cork. There’s no reason why it would be Luas nor is there any reason why it would end in *ART which is just a Dublin rip off of a U.S. public transit brand anyway.

    Light rail in Cork would also go out tender so the trams may not necessarily even be Alstom. It could well be CAF, Bombardier, Siemens, Hyundai (Rotem) etc etc nor would the operator necessarily be the same company.

    They’re hardly going to be shifting trams from Cork to Dublin in a regular basis. It would be a supported locally and by the manufacturer at a base on the continent somewhere with major repairs being shipped out.

  • Registered Users Posts: 17,565 ✭✭✭✭ namloc1980

    A unified branding is important and isn't something that is in place on Dublin. There you have Luas, DART, Commuter Rail, Dublin Bus and various "Connect" services etc. all with their own logos, fonts, ticket branding. Dublin transport branding is a mess.

    Look at best in class branding e.g. Transport for London. While there's multiple services they're all unified through the roundel logo and overall branding.

  • Registered Users Posts: 16,231 ✭✭✭✭ LXFlyer

    Transport for Ireland is the unifying transport brand that the NTA are now rolling out across the entire country, and the new national single livery is being rolled out across the entire PSO bus fleet as they fall due for repainting, so it will take time for them all being repainted.

    Cork’s bus fleet will probably start to be repainted in it as the new BusConnects network starts to be rolled out.

    The operator’s logo is now only a small one on one side of the bus.

    Trains & trams have their sub-branding within the TFI branding and probably will still retain that. But I’d expect to see the TFI logo appearing across all modes as the NTA take a more centralised role in customer service.

  • Registered Users Posts: 17,565 ✭✭✭✭ namloc1980

    Yeah it's a bit crap to be honest. Missing a trick by not having a Cork specific livery or something distinguishing about it. And you'll still have all the various "Connects" buses with their own branding, ticketing, route maps on top of all that. And Irish Rail then having their own livery, different fonts etc. And future Luas in Cork will have it's own livery etc like the Luas in Dublin. Slapping a tfi logo on something isn't going far enough in creating a strong brand.

    Use the train from East Cork regularly and there's no obvious tfi branding that I can see anyway.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,231 ✭✭✭✭ LXFlyer

    No, BusConnects is only the name for the project.

    It’s nothing to do with the actual branding on buses or other modes once the service starts. That branding is “Transport for Ireland”.

    The NTA are starting to roll out standard information formats, maps etc using the TFI brand, with one font and style.

    It will ultimately all be the same format but it’ll take time.

    For example, buses in Dublin are normally repainted every four years, so it’ll take that long to fully repaint the fleet, as they don’t want to be accused of wasting money!

    We are just starting the third year of repaints in Dublin.

  • Registered Users Posts: 17,565 ✭✭✭✭ namloc1980

    What? I'm talking about the Connects services like, Cobh Connect, Cork Connect, West Cork Connect etc. Some of them take Leap, others don't. Some of them appear on tfi maps of Cork buses, others don't. They use the term "Connect" and you got confused between them and BusConnects. A mess.

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,227 ✭✭✭ snotboogie

    Im in my 30’s and I’d be shocked if I see a North South light rail route in my lifetime. I wouldn’t be surprised to never see any light rail in Cork tbh

  • Registered Users Posts: 16,231 ✭✭✭✭ LXFlyer

    They are private unsubsidised commercial operators, nothing to do with PSO services.

    Of course they can brand their services as they see fit. That’s the same in any country.

    All PSO services will however have standard liveries and fares.

    But the NTA are rolling out standard bus stops with standard timetable presentation including those operated by commercial operators.

  • Registered Users Posts: 17,565 ✭✭✭✭ namloc1980

    Only some of them are on the tfi map of Cork buses. For example Cobh Connect route 200 is on the map but their route 211 isn't. Neither is a PSO service. It makes no sense. IMO the tfi branding could be done much better and more locally specific, but people are free to think it's good.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,231 ✭✭✭✭ LXFlyer

    We don’t have up to date maps anywhere unfortunately, other than for rail & tram services.

    That’s something that needs addressing, but I suspect the NTA have put updating them on hold pending the implementation of the revised networks which involve substantial changes, both nationally and in towns & cities.

    The Cork map dates from 2021 and I suspect predates the launch of the 210 & 211!

  • Registered Users Posts: 17,565 ✭✭✭✭ namloc1980

    The new network is a long while off yet. It's very poor to have out of date maps - nearly 2 years at this stage. Stuff like this reflects very poorly and gives people who bash public transport ammunition.

  • Registered Users Posts: 8,527 ✭✭✭ cgcsb

    Actually it's standard across Europe for unconnected public transport systems of different cities in the same country to have the same branding. All German speaking countries have U bahn and S bahn the logos vary between country, not city. Similarly in Spain except Catalonia, its the Cercanais and metro. In France its the RER and metro. Granted these are very large countries with multiple large cities. Consistent branding is important I think. The variation tends to be based on language rather than city.

    I'd prefer for the DART to change name to something else if it meant consistency with the Cork system, assuming that CART isn't a runner. Traen Áitiúil or TÁ might be an option, something that can be consistent across different cities, bearing in mind there may be a commuter rail system in Limerick in the future.

  • Registered Users Posts: 92 ✭✭ Tippman24

    Why not call it similar to something a Dublin friend referred to the Luas as "The Snail on the Rail".

  • Registered Users Posts: 8,527 ✭✭✭ cgcsb

    We'll probably be paying climate fines for 50 years or so before any action is taken but still nice to imagine.

  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,570 Mod ✭✭✭✭ spacetweek

  • Registered Users Posts: 18,970 ✭✭✭✭ murphaph

    It's good to hear that buses will have a uniform livery nationally. Will this just apply to city services or will long distance buses also be obliged to carry the TFI livery? This may annoy some people but I would favour abolishing the DART brand and replacing it with generic commuter or suburban (NIR used to have a Suburban branding and livery, distinct from the InterCity one, though this disappeared in the early 90s and it was all unified again). This commuter/suburban rail brand would then be common across the country. There is no need nor desire for locally named services/branding. It should all be uniform. TFI seems to be going in that direction so hopefully it continues. It's much better when the branding is instantly familiar to a user, nationwide. It will build ridership if people "know" the public transport everywhere, even if they don't. I agree that TfL is the class leader in all this. There is clearly a way to have distinct yet unified brands for the different services.

  • Registered Users Posts: 16,231 ✭✭✭✭ LXFlyer

    All PSO buses will eventually be in a common livery.

    Commercial operators (including Expressway) will retain their own branding and identities.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,358 ✭✭✭✭ whisky_galore

    I dislike the TFI green/yellow bus stops, I find them harder to spot than the old red ones. I don't know if they get lost in street clutter or they don't stand out in dull Irish weather. Bang of quango off the TFI brand.

  • Registered Users Posts: 843 ✭✭✭ Paddico

    A right idea