Outdoor dining summer 2021

Plans are coming through for street space to be freed up for outdoor dining in the city this summer. It looks to be a mix of a couple of street closures, one-way systems and parking removal.

The council haven't provided clear communication on it yet but here's the current drawings;

https://twitter.com/CllrJConnolly/status/1392524292705898499?s=19

https://twitter.com/OwenHanleyLives/status/1392529177807659013?s=19

This might be more digestible!

https://twitter.com/GalwayCityCo/status/1392757582150971394?s=19

Mrs OBumble

I'd love to know what venues in Raven's Terrace and The Small Crane are going to be providing the "dining" part of this.

what_traffic

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I'd love to know what venues in Raven's Terrace and The Small Crane are going to be providing the "dining" part of this.

Thats a good question.

berrecka

I thought the obligatory food element was going to be removed, with no wet pub nonsense. So outdoor for pints as well as food.

Mrs OBumble

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I'd love to know what venues in Raven's Terrace and The Small Crane are going to be providing the "dining" part of this.

For The Small Crane I'd assume Massimo's, Mona Lisa, Urban Grind, Wooza, maybe Kai...

For Ravens Terrace you have Gourmet Tart, Monroe's, maybe other eateries from Upper Dominick Street. There was a food market here before, perhaps they'll do that.

Fitz*

Overall, this is a fantastic initiative.

Would this mean that the parking spots in Woodquay will be removed and replaced with outdoor dining?
If so, that is great. I love the Woodquay area, so this will be an even larger incentive to go there now.

what_traffic

Fitz* wrote: »

Overall, this is a fantastic initiative.

Would this mean that the parking spots in Woodquay will be removed and replaced with outdoor dining?
If so, that is great. I love the Woodquay area, so this will be an even larger incentive to go there now.

Ya a certain amount will be - mentioned in recent Council meeting
I think Woodquay has great potential, its sheltered and if central area is used its not in the shade for afternoons and evenings..

all the notices for temp closure of roads for the summer period were in todays Galway Advertiser
also available here
https://www.galwaycity.ie/latestnews

ben.schlomo

[Deleted User] wrote: »

For The Small Crane I'd assume Massimo's, Mona Lisa, Urban Grind, Wooza, maybe Kai...

For Ravens Terrace you have Gourmet Tart, Monroe's, maybe other eateries from Upper Dominick Street. There was a food market here before, perhaps they'll do that.

Salt House were offering a food option recently, saw it on their social media. I'm assuming they were getting it from somewhere else and maybe reheating in there.

Mrs OBumble

VanWildcard wrote: »

For The Small Crane I'd assume Massimo's, Mona Lisa, Urban Grind, Wooza, maybe Kai...

Woozza Sea Rd don't do eat-in. Kai, Urban Grind, Massimos cannot actually see The Small Crane from their premises, I hardly think their waiting staff can realistically manage seated dining there.

Mona Lisa are best placed, it has interesting Health and Safety implications for waiting staff crossing a road.

VanWildcard wrote: »

For Ravens Terrace you have Gourmet Tart, Monroe's, maybe other eateries from Upper Dominick Street. There was a food market here before, perhaps they'll do that.

Gourmet Tart offer takeaways, not table service. Monroes - see above, hard to manage what they cannot readily see.

I went past there tonight, the Salthouse appear to have abandoned the food part of their offering. Raven's Tce was simply a public drinking area.

Mrs

Mrs wrote: »

Woozza Sea Rd don't do eat-in.

So what? Outdoor dining still keeps groups outside instead of meeting indoors and ordering pizza in.

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Kai, Urban Grind, Massimos cannot actually see The Small Crane from their premises, I hardly think their waiting staff can realistically manage seated dining there.

It's common in many countries where outdoor dining is the norm that there is seating in a main square and the restaurant/kitchen might be around the corner.

Hopefully it'll not be seats dedicated to restaurants or bars, better as a shared dining area and have order points for food - like a food market or a hawker centre.

irish_major

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I'd love to know what venues in Raven's Terrace and The Small Crane are going to be providing the "dining" part of this.

There is literally about 5 different options for food within about a 30 second walk from Ravens terrace.

Mrs OBumble

VanWildcard wrote: »

It's common in many countries where outdoor dining is the norm that there is seating in a main square and the restaurant/kitchen might be around the corner.

Hopefully it'll not be seats dedicated to restaurants or bars, better as a shared dining area and have order points for food - like a food market or a hawker centre.

And in that scenario, who is responsible for managing the queue to get in?
Cleaning up after people? Chucking out the one-bowl-of-chips-and-27-pints brigade, troublemakers and lingerers?

FWIW, I'm hearing that seats will be allocated to local venues.

What does it matter if people prefer pints over food? Or want to linger?

It's about providing space and facilities for people to socialise safely outdoors. Restaurants and bars can profit from that and provide jobs but the emphasis should be on providing a safe social space for the next few months.

As for the cleanup, provide the bins and people will use them.

irish_major

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

And in that scenario, who is responsible for managing the queue to get in?
Cleaning up after people? Chucking out the one-bowl-of-chips-and-27-pints brigade, troublemakers and lingerers?

FWIW, I'm hearing that seats will be allocated to local venues.

I'd say you'll be having a lot of fun when things open back up

Mrs OBumble

VanWildcard wrote: »

It's about providing space and facilities for people to socialise safely outdoors. Restaurants and bars can profit from that and provide jobs but the emphasis should be on providing a safe social space for the next few months.

Nope.

There's plenty of space for people to socialise safely outdoors - they're doing it already up and down the canals, Long walk etc.

It's about providing businesses with additional space they can use to make money to pay their rates and employ staff. In the hope that those businesses can survive until Covid is further under control and people can be served safely indoors again.

The space which is being made available will have to be managed carefully to maximise the earnings.

And so will the punters behaviour, so that local residents don't suffer too many adverse consequences: Most of the businesses have planning conditions which control how much noise etc can spill out of the premises, and banning takeaways. Those conditions are not being enforced at present, but they weren't imposed before for the LOLZ.

VanWildcard wrote: »

As for the cleanup, provide the bins and people will use them.

Yeah, 'cos that works so well in McDonalds / Supermacs / etc. :rolleyes:

Mrs OBumble

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

There's plenty of space for people to socialise safely outdoors - they're doing it already up and down the canals, Long walk etc.

They can't legally meet in those places for a social drink. If that's considered an adequate solution and the public streets are for private business use only then they should at least add a temporary exemption to the city bye laws.

Fitz*

Some streets have now been removed from the pedestrianisation plan.

I get the impression that the council just want to shut everything and everywhere. Less work and effort for them.

https://twitter.com/Galwaybayfmnews/status/1400033787824820229?s=19

John_Rambo

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Yeah, 'cos that works so well in McDonalds / Supermacs / etc. :rolleyes:

They're not restaurants. They're fast food collection & drive through facilities. Different clientele altogether. The outdoor eateries won't be fly tipping their rubbish from their cars and tables will be waited and cleared by staff.

Fitz*

Fitz* wrote: »

Some streets have now been removed from the pedestrianisation plan.

I get the impression that the council just want to shut everything and everywhere. Less work and effort for them.

https://twitter.com/Galwaybayfmnews/status/1400033787824820229?s=19

Ah the old "due to health and safety concerns" cop out!

Fitz*

VanWildcard wrote: »

Ah the old "due to health and safety concerns" cop out!

The delayed realization of seeing how under prepared they are, after seeing the reaction to what happened in Dublin over the last week, coupled with how little facilities were available at the Spanish Arch and what happened there. Putting out a few bins won't solve this problem!

Zzippy

Fitz* wrote: »

Some streets have now been removed from the pedestrianisation plan.

I get the impression that the council just want to shut everything and everywhere. Less work and effort for them.

https://twitter.com/Galwaybayfmnews/status/1400033787824820229?s=19

there were objections to the inclusion of the streets in the scheme because it would impact emergency service access and response times.

Presumably Mill St and the fire station had concerns. City manager: Just leave everything open so. Rather than think about it for two seconds and maybe, I dunno, close half the street with the other side left as an emergency vehicle lane only? Jeez, we might lose some car parking revenue! :eek:

Pen Rua

VanWildcard wrote: »

Ah the old "due to health and safety concerns" cop out!

Emergency services access through main routes of the city is not a cop out.

Mrs OBumble

John_Rambo wrote: »

They're not restaurants. They're fast food collection & drive through facilities. Different clientele altogether. The outdoor eateries won't be fly tipping their rubbish from their cars and tables will be waited and cleared by staff.

McDs and Supermacs are also non-assigned tables restaurants, where people dine-in.

IMHO, outdoor dining tables need to be assigned-seating, waited and served by staff.

Other posters said "no need for table service, let people order from the restaurant hatches, and eat at any available table".

Under that model there is no one assigned to clean the tables. Posters claimed that if rubbish bins/bags were around, diners would clean up after themselves. Like magic. We know they don't do this in Supermacs. Why would we believe they will outside?

siochain

Hi Folks,

Looking for recommendations in Galway city for next Sunday and Monday to eat out with the kids and wife. A pint or two would be a bonus. I know things are't really open until Monday the 7/6 any recommendations would be welcome.

cheers

Pen Rua

Pen Rua wrote: »

Emergency services access through main routes of the city is not a cop out.

Scrapping plans for entire areas instead of adapting is a cop out. City council always look for any excuse for inaction.

Give them a mile and they'll take an inch.

John_Rambo

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

McDs and Supermacs are also non-assigned tables restaurants, where people dine-in

No dining in at the moment. McDonalds and Supermac diners, particularly drivers are more likely to fly tip.

Pen Rua

VanWildcard wrote: »

Scrapping plans for entire areas instead of adapting is a cop out. City council always look for any excuse for inaction.

Give them a mile and they'll take an inch.

Who in this thread knows for a fact the council did not try to adapt and instead went for immediate cancellation? Right now we’re only guessing. Perhaps the emergency services have said partial road closures are not suitable.

While I do understand why the council have made this decision, I can only imagine how it feels for the businesses affected who have spent €€€ on getting set for outdoor dining on the closed roads.

what_traffic

Pen Rua wrote: »

Emergency services access through main routes of the city is not a cop out.

main routes? Hardly
Whats interesting is that it was the HSE who wanted this rather than the Gardai or the Fire Service who are both based in the very close proximity of these streets. Something does not add up

what_traffic

Zzippy wrote: »

Presumably Mill St and the fire station had concerns. City manager: Just leave everything open so. Rather than think about it for two seconds and maybe, I dunno, close half the street with the other side left as an emergency vehicle lane only? Jeez, we might lose some car parking revenue! :eek:

It was HSE based on News reports I have heard on the Radio today and here
https://connachttribune.ie/dominick-street-upper-and-lower-set-to-be-removed-from-city-pedestrianisation-plan-for-outdoor-dining/
"
the HSE objected to the inclusion of the streets in the scheme because it would impact ambulance access and response times.
"

Mrs OBumble

The Blue Note's Facebook is saying:

... Dominick St Upper (ambulance service objection) and (Garda observation). Why did they not consult the emergency services before putting the plan in the paper? Also no to William St West and Small Crane for NO OBVIOUS REASON.

I'd imagine residents of the Small Crane and streets behind it were none-to-thrilled with the idea.

ingalway

I always thought it was madness to be closing off, or partially closing off, so many streets. Galway is tiny but has so much traffic. Even just having Cross Street closed can be a pain in the *** for getting across town. The left hand lane of the docks traffic can be backed up out Lough Atalia Road on a busy day trying to get across town, adding even more closures would make it more painful. On a normal busy summer day if one car breaks down, or a set of lights are out, everywhere gets jammed very quickly and no one can move.
Galway is just too small.

witnessrenegade

ingalway wrote: »

I always thought it was madness to be closing off, or partially closing off, so many streets. Galway is tiny but has so much traffic. Even just having Cross Street closed can be a pain in the *** for getting across town. The left hand lane of the docks traffic can be backed up out Lough Atalia Road on a busy day trying to get across town, adding even more closures would make it more painful. On a normal busy summer day if one car breaks down, or a set of lights are out, everywhere gets jammed very quickly and no one can move.
Galway is just too small.

I guess the counterargument is that if Galway is too small for traffic, why don't we just walk/cycle

ingalway

ingalway wrote: »

Galway is just too small.

Too small to dedicate public space to outdoor dining or too small to channel a high volume of private cars through the city streets every day?

biko

Back to outdoor dining.

xckjoo

ingalway wrote: »

I always thought it was madness to be closing off, or partially closing off, so many streets. Galway is tiny but has so much traffic. Even just having Cross Street closed can be a pain in the *** for getting across town. The left hand lane of the docks traffic can be backed up out Lough Atalia Road on a busy day trying to get across town, adding even more closures would make it more painful. On a normal busy summer day if one car breaks down, or a set of lights are out, everywhere gets jammed very quickly and no one can move.
Galway is just too small.

Ugh. Can we leave this stuff for the Traffic thread where it goes round in a never ending "debate"?

Fitz* wrote: »

Some streets have now been removed from the pedestrianisation plan.

I get the impression that the council just want to shut everything and everywhere. Less work and effort for them.

https://twitter.com/Galwaybayfmnews/status/1400033787824820229?s=19

Terrible news for the businesses in this part of the city. They've really been let down by the Council. Lots of money spent and staff hired. All for nothing. According to JP McMahon the plan had been okayed by emergency services weeks ago. But if it wasn't then why wasn't it? Seems like it should be one of the first things done.

Doctors room ghost

It’s on finnegan on the wireless now

Storm 10

They are installing large concrete barriers in Woodquay and now more problems there as the business that are not involved in the Bar/Restaurant trade say there will be no access to there premises to deliver or pick up.

ratracer

[QUOTE



Terrible news for the businesses in this part of the city. They've really been let down by the Council. Lots of money spent and staff hired. All for nothing. According to JP McMahon the plan had been okayed by emergency services weeks ago. But if it wasn't then why wasn't it? Seems like it should be one of the first things done.[/QUOTE]

I don't think it was! There is no issue as far as I am with the road closure from Monroe's heading back to the small crane, as there are plenty of alternative route options around there., and as plenty have posted here and elsewhere, it has been done before without incident.

However, from Monroe's to Bridge St is a key access route for the emergency services to reach say O'Brien's Bridge for river rescues, which is a frequent occurrence unfortunately. Access from the Cross St side is already closed off by pedestrianisation. To say 'just close half the street, loads of room for one way traffic', well just look at how narrow the street is, which side gets closed? All the pubs are on the opposite side to the current parking areas. Do people think that hordes of alcohol fuelled peeps just move aside for a passing vehicle, they don't!

I would think the council knocked the whole area on the head to not be accused by business on one road crying foul if others were given unfair advantage by allowing their side closed. As usual though, Galway City Council played a blinder in making a complete balls of it!

ingalway

witnessrenegade wrote: »

I guess the counterargument is that if Galway is too small for traffic, why don't we just walk/cycle

I would love that to be an option but where I live no public transport, plus I need a car for work, not just getting to and from work. Once you leave the city limits it's difficult without a car.

Doctors room ghost

Storm 10 wrote: »

They are installing large concrete barriers in Woodquay and now more problems there as the business that are not involved in the Bar/Restaurant trade say there will be no access to there premises to deliver or pick up.

Comboy on the wireless earlier gone lighting cracked over it

Pen Rua

As a point of order, at what point is a road closure confirmed / approved? I know a couple of weeks ago, GCC made their intent to close the roads known and this followed with publication of adverts to this effect in local papers. Is there a period wherein people can object prior to formal confirmation? So while the announcement went there, and businesses went off planning for it, it was never fully confirmed until such time that people made objections?

Pen Rua

Pen Rua wrote: »

So while the announcement went there, and businesses went off planning for it, it was never fully confirmed until such time that people made objections?

If businesses waited until now, a few days before opening, they wouldn't have had time to prepare (outdoor furniture, stock, staff etc).

xckjoo

ratracer wrote: »

I don't think it was! There is no issue as far as I am with the road closure from Monroe's heading back to the small crane, as there are plenty of alternative route options around there., and as plenty have posted here and elsewhere, it has been done before without incident.

However, from Monroe's to Bridge St is a key access route for the emergency services to reach say O'Brien's Bridge for river rescues, which is a frequent occurrence unfortunately. Access from the Cross St side is already closed off by pedestrianisation. To say 'just close half the street, loads of room for one way traffic', well just look at how narrow the street is, which side gets closed? All the pubs are on the opposite side to the current parking areas. Do people think that hordes of alcohol fuelled peeps just move aside for a passing vehicle, they don't!

I would think the council knocked the whole area on the head to not be accused by business on one road crying foul if others were given unfair advantage by allowing their side closed. As usual though, Galway City Council played a blinder in making a complete balls of it!

Ya who knows what happened behind the scenes. We'll only hear the buck passing side of things from the Council and we could debate ad nauseum about what we think should be possible. But IMO, if it is due to a potential issue with access by emergency services, this should have been flagged on Day 1. Who was responsible for checking those kind of things and why was it missed until such a late date?

Storm 10

One of the pubs in Woodquay has taken over some of the road to build a Patio outside surely this would require planning permission fine to put out tables and chairs but build a Patio.

Pen Rua

VanWildcard wrote: »

If businesses waited until now, a few days before opening, they wouldn't have had time to prepare (outdoor furniture, stock, staff etc).

In a sense it's a business risk. They ploughed ahead for a plan that may not have been formally signed off on when its intent was announced.

Mrs OBumble

Storm 10 wrote: »

One of the pubs in Woodquay has taken over some of the road to build a Patio outside surely this would require planning permission fine to put out tables and chairs but build a Patio.

They'll probably argue that it's a temporary structure. Or apply for retention and remove the patio in six months when it's not granted.

zell12

Storm 10 wrote: »

One of the pubs in Woodquay has taken over some of the road to build a Patio outside surely this would require planning permission fine to put out tables and chairs but build a Patio.

It's not the business building the concrete patio in what were parking spaces, it's the Council. Council also installing speed bumps on Woodquay road entrances

Storm 10

zell12 wrote: »

It's not the business building the concrete patio in what were parking spaces, it's the Council. Council also installing speed bumps on Woodquay road entrances

If that was the case they would be constructing them outside all the pubs there they guy I saw this morning was a private company

ratracer

Storm 10 wrote: »

If that was the case they would be constructing them outside all the pubs there they guy I saw this morning was a private company

I noticed the council doing similar outside a couple of businesses in Salthill during the week also.

ratracer

xckjoo wrote: »

Ya who knows what happened behind the scenes. We'll only hear the buck passing side of things from the Council and we could debate ad nauseum about what we think should be possible. But IMO, if it is due to a potential issue with access by emergency services, this should have been flagged on Day 1. Who was responsible for checking those kind of things and why was it missed until such a late date?

It possibly was flagged. I wonder did the councillors jump the gun pushing all the info out when it was only at a plan stage? and now they can't backtrack on it seeing the backlash to it being withdrawn?