Are we excited yet?

sparkletooth

Anyone take a look into Portugal's NHR (non-habitual residence) program?

Revenue not having a clue what to do with Crypto and just lumping it in as a currency asset is just lazy.

In Portugal you can protect your gains by selling into a stable coin without worrying about the taxman. The NHR scheme runs for 10 years from activation date. Plenty of time to grow your wealth over this decade.

I wish our government had a clue. Dopes

cravings

what should they do? why should crypto be treated differently than other currency assets?

just curious..

yaknowski

SoSueMe/ Suzanne Jackson moving to Portugal...Must be a crypto whale.

HGVRHKYY

yaknowski wrote: »

SoSueMe/ Suzanne Jackson moving to Portugal...Must be a crypto whale.

Maybe, but could just be to take advantage of the general benefits of relocating there while being able to earn good money, apparently migrants can avail of some scheme where their income tax is only 20% for up to 10 years. So it'd make complete sense for someone who does any kind of online work to move for something like that, especially when you factor in the better weather and better potential quality of life due to reduced cost of living combined with the reduced tax on income

Live there for a while, accumulate more wealth than you would in this disgracefully expensive country, then move back home potentially able to buy a place outright

sparkletooth

cravings wrote: »

what should they do? why should crypto be treated differently than other currency assets?

just curious..

It's short sighted not allowing investors to grow their wealth. If a lot of Crypto ends up moving out of Ireland, revenue lose anyway. Better to keep the early adopters happy and give them an opportunity to grow their investment.

Portugal does not recognise Crypto profits as taxable income as long as you're not a trader. You can HODL and play the bull/bear cycles over this decade without withdrawing profits into Fiat.

Not possible in Ireland

cravings

portugal could change their stance at any moment on that. and i'm still curious about why you think crypto gains should be regarded as different to any other kind of gains.

wotzgoingon

sparkletooth wrote: »

I wish our government had a clue. Dopes

You mean they do know what they are doing. You are earning free money and they are looking for their cut.

sparkletooth

sparkletooth wrote: »

It's short sighted not allowing investors to grow their wealth. If a lot of Crypto ends up moving out of Ireland, revenue lose anyway. Better to keep the early adopters happy and give them an opportunity to grow their investment.

Portugal does not recognise Crypto profits as taxable income as long as you're not a trader. You can HODL and play the bull/bear cycles over this decade without withdrawing profits into Fiat.

Not possible in Ireland

I need to look into it more but somebody told me that you don't need to relocate to Portugal long term as an EU citizen. You just need a registered address and get a good lawyer who understands crypto and tax laws in Portugal. NFA

HGVRHKYY

sparkletooth wrote: »

It's short sighted not allowing investors to grow their wealth. If a lot of Crypto ends up moving out of Ireland, revenue lose anyway. Better to keep the early adopters happy and give them an opportunity to grow their investment.

Portugal does not recognise Crypto profits as taxable income as long as you're not a trader. You can HODL and play the bull/bear cycles over this decade without withdrawing profits into Fiat.

Not possible in Ireland

We're actually going out of our way as a country to make investments and growing wealth in general unattractive and difficult to access in ways, e.g. deemed disposal. People trout the bull**** about how our current setup is to distribute wealth, but that doesn't include any nuance whatsoever because the way things are at the moment is essentially implying that anyone capable of scraping any bit of money together at all and investing it is wealthy enough and should have their profits harshly taxed (€1,270 threshold).

The worst part is that CGT only accounts for like 1% of the annual tax take, so all of this doesn't even really go that far in the grand scheme of things, whereas the effects of the setup for individuals is really bad compared to how we could all be doing a lot better if we weren't penalised for trying to improve our financial situation. Personally, if it was actually fair and easier to grow wealth here in the country, I'd be thinking long-term about using the money to start a business which would be a benefit to the country as it would go on to generate more taxes and income tax (one of the biggest tax pots each year), but instead I feel resentment towards the country and the urge to get out as soon as possible to enjoy less restrictive holds elsewhere. The CGT threshold is a seemingly random €1,270, but that's actually the £ -> € exchange, following the changeover to Euro all the way back in 2001, 20 years ago. The fact if hasn't been reviewed in so long says it all, this crowd haven't a clue

sparkletooth

wotzgoingon wrote: »

You mean they do know what they are doing. You are earning free money and they are looking for their cut.

It's not free money until I cash out or spend it in the real world. Still highly speculative until mass adoption

sparkletooth

HGVRHKYY wrote: »

We're actually going out of our way as a country to make investments and growing wealth in general unattractive and difficult to access in ways, e.g. deemed disposal. People trout the bull**** about how our current setup is to distribute wealth, but that doesn't include any nuance whatsoever because the way things are at the moment is essentially implying that anyone capable of scraping any bit of money together at all and investing it is wealthy enough and should have their profits harshly taxed (€1,270 threshold).

The worst part is that CGT only accounts for like 1% of the annual tax take, so all of this doesn't even really go that far in the grand scheme of things, whereas the effects of the setup for individuals is really bad compared to how we could all be doing a lot better if we weren't penalised for trying to improve our financial situation.

The threshold is a ****ing joke. They get £12k tax free allowance in the UK.

HGVRHKYY

sparkletooth wrote: »

The threshold is a ****ing joke. They get £12k tax free allowance in the UK.

It's genuinely insulting in my opinion, they're extremely out of touch if that seems like an acceptable amount to allow us to have tax free on investments each year, and as the housing crisis gets worse, it gets even more insulting. You need an income of €128k to afford an 'affordable' house of €450k according to their recent incentives, how many people can actually manage that without being able to grow their savings/investments as much as possible?

sparkletooth

HGVRHKYY wrote: »

It's genuinely insulting in my opinion, they're extremely out of touch if that seems like an acceptable amount to allow us to have tax free on investments each year, and as the housing crisis gets worse, it gets even more insulting. You need an income of €128k to afford an 'affordable' house of €450k according to their recent incentives, how many people can actually manage that without being able to grow their savings/investments as much as possible?

And we haven't even mentioned hyper inflation knocking at the door because of the failed policies of our government and ECB.

Yeah, they DEFINITELY know what they're doing "thumbs up"

Bob24

cravings wrote: »

what should they do? why should crypto be treated differently than other currency assets?

just curious..

Actually crypto isn't treated as foreign currency holdings. It is treated as an asset (which makes sense to me, but it isn't quite the same thing).

Bob24

sparkletooth wrote: »

I need to look into it more but somebody told me that you don't need to relocate to Portugal long term as an EU citizen. You just need a registered address and get a good lawyer who understands crypto and tax laws in Portugal. NFA

Portugal might not requirie to be a full time resident there to become a tax resident (I have no idea), but keep in mind that on the Irish side Revenue will still see you as a tax resident here for income tax purposes as long as you spend more the half the year in Ireland, and for CGT purposes it is even worse as you are still liable to Irish CGT for 3 years after leaving Ireland.

sparkletooth

Bob24 wrote: »

Portugal might not requiring to be a full time resident there to become a tax resident (I have no idea), but keep in mind that on the Irish side Revenue will still see you as a tax resident here for income tax purposes as long as you spend more the half the year in Ireland, and for CGT purposes it is even worst as you are still liable to Irish CGT for 3 years after leaving Ireland.

Jesus. They're almost as bad as the IRS... almost

Bob24

sparkletooth wrote: »

The threshold is a ****ing joke. They get £12k tax free allowance in the UK.

The threshold and also the rate itself. I guess we are falling onto rant territory but the below map show how uncompetitive our rate is.

HGVRHKYY

Bob24 wrote: »

There threshold and the rate itself. I guess we are falling onto rant territory but the below map show how uncompetitive our are is.

Uncompetitive is putting it very lightly when you consider what you actually get in return for the pleasure of having a third of your returns gouged, when compared to most of those other high CGT countries. The Scandinavian countries are objectively nicer, better countries for citizens to live in and they at least see some returns for their taxes. We don't even have proper universal healthcare, we've a two tier system where you still have to pay loads in certain situations even with insurance

sparkletooth

Look, if the BM extends into 2022 and I can take taxes out later I won't complain too much.

I just have no faith in the small brains in government to see us out of the coming bleakness...

cravings

yes, the threshold is way too low. the fact that it is €1270 should tell you how long that's been in place without any change to reflect inflation.

but the threshold is the same for all gains. property, currency, shares etc. it's not specific to crypto.

harmless

I talked to a friend in revenue who said it will only show up if a bank flags it, then revenue will ask you to file a return.
They still have a lot of legal work to do on crypto, if they have even started.
If you are flagged you will have to pay but there will be no penalties or interest due.

I do 2k+ non crypto transactions all the time I don't see why a €1270+ would be flagged. Unless the bank is monitoring all the cryto exchanges would would be a lot of work for them.

AtticusFinch86

The tax system here is designed to encourage investment in areas where employment can be generated. Not in speculation.

In saying that, a 1.2k exemption is hardly worthwhile.

Rob2D

harmless wrote: »

I talked to a friend in revenue who said it will only show up if a bank flags it, then revenue will ask you to file a return.

I don't know about that. All those exchanges ask for your passport for a reason.

And I read that it goes up above 50% if you're late with payment. And there's no statute of limitations for it either.

I'll tell you one thing, for the next bull run I am going to be set up somewhere else, somehow. I have no choice only to pay now but no way in hell are these c**ts getting my 2025 gains. If I was Apple or a cuckoo fund I wouldn't be paying tax. C**ts.

sparkletooth

harmless wrote: »

I talked to a friend in revenue who said it will only show up if a bank flags it, then revenue will ask you to file a return.
They still have a lot of legal work to do on crypto, if they have even started.
If you are flagged you will have to pay but there will be no penalties or interest due.

I do 2k+ non crypto transactions all the time I don't see why a €1270+ would be flagged. Unless the bank is monitoring all the cryto exchanges would would be a lot of work for them.

So just play dumb and say I didn't know swapping into stablecoins was a taxable event?

Very degen

Salvadoor

Is this the "are we excited yet" thread or the fcuking political tax thread

AtticusFinch86

sparkletooth wrote: »

So just play dumb and say I didn't know swapping into stablecoins was a taxable event?

Very degen

They won't accept that excuse. Otherwise all taxpayers would claim ignorance when Revenue came knocking. As far as they're concerned, the onus is on you to ensure you are tax compliant.

sparkletooth

Rob2D wrote: »

I don't know about that. All those exchanges ask for your passport for a reason.

And I read that it goes up above 50% if you're late with payment. And there's no statute of limitations for it either.

I'll tell you one thing, for the next bull run I am going to be set up somewhere else, somehow. I have no choice only to pay now but no way in hell are these c**ts getting my 2025 gains. If I was Apple or a cuckoo fund I wouldn't be paying tax. C**ts.

At least if they had short term CGT and long term CGT it would be something. Tax the **** out of idiots gambling on doge, cummies, safemoon etc. But if you can prove you're investing long term give us something back FFS

sparkletooth

Salvadoor wrote: »

Is this the "are we excited yet" thread or the fcuking political tax thread

It's a bit of everything. Still excited but taxes spoil all the fun

sparkletooth

Also, if I was wealthy enough I'd just buy BTC and ETH and sit on it. Even earn yield.

Who's winning exactly? Definitely not the little guy.

The government are such champions of the people!

HGVRHKYY

Salvadoor wrote: »

Is this the "are we excited yet" thread or the fcuking political tax thread

"I don't want you people talking about this thing as I'm not interested in it"

Just scroll past the comments that don't interest you, god I hate people like you on the internet

Taxes directly impact anyone investing in crypto, it's entirely relevant