F1 2021 Round 4 : Spanish Grand Prix

Harika

Indestructable wrote: »

They might be worried about losing Russell, who they probably see as the long term replacement for Hamilton. I'm not all that convinced that Russell is all he is made out to be but I do think that he is Mercedes man for the future.

Heidfeld was groomed for years to go to McLaren, then Kimi dropped by... Russell can be parked at Williams longer as where could he go and compete with Mercedes?
Mercedes can always go to McLaren and ask for Daniel or Norris.

AMKC

AMKC wrote: »

I disagree. If Max first pit stop had of been better and if they had of pitted Max before Hamilton pitted the 2and time I think Max could have won but they fecked up and done a Ferrari. Not a good day at all at Red Bull. Very poor form. Max was the only one on top form and he was let down by the team.
Fair play to Mercedes they won it on clever strategy.

Giving up track position, hoping they didn't pit, having to pass Bottas, not having mediums to put on... there was no way they were going to pull the trigger before Mercedes.

The key thing that people don't seem to be accounting for is that Mercedes have a car that's quite a bit faster in race trim. With DRS track position isn't quite as important as it used to be. Having the faster car gives more options. If anything it's one thing I don't like about DRS, it generally makes strategy more inevitable. If there was no DRS then track position would matter so much more.

titan18

Harika wrote: »

The question remains why Mercedes should drop him? Sure he doesn't challenge Hamilton often but three podiums and overall was in three races where he needed to be.

Probably be Hamilton's decision really id say as he's also out of contract. If he decides to retire or go do something else for a year, you'd imagine Bottas would stay as replacing two drivers is tough. Same as if Hamilton wants to continue and wants Bottas to stay as he knows he's faster and he isn't a threat to him. He might not care who his teammate is then either and be fine with a young fast driver in Russell to push him harder. You'd have to imagine management though aren't too happy with stuff like today from Bottas though

Hijpo

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Giving up track position, hoping they didn't pit, having to pass Bottas, not having mediums to put on... there was no way they were going to pull the trigger before Mercedes.

The key thing that people don't seem to be accounting for is that Mercedes have a car that's quite a bit faster in race trim. With DRS track position isn't quite as important as it used to be. Having the faster car gives more options. If anything it's one thing I don't like about DRS, it generally makes strategy more inevitable. If there was no DRS then track position would matter so much more.

On one graphic Max topped out at 309Kmh without DRS and Hamilton behind him with DRS had hit 330Kmh before having to brake for the corner.

This is it

If they had no mediums left then there was no point in putting that early.

Awesome from LeClerc today

2011

Deleted User wrote: »

If he'd stopped before Hamilton he would've been putting on worse tyres than what Hamilton had.

Yes, but ask yourself, why was that? They started off the weekend with the same amount of tyres in the same condition.

Would've had a job making them last.

Sure, but he is a particularly talented driver.

Plus it had only been 16 laps since he pitted. And would've had Bottas in the way. Giving up track position without an almost-certain pace advantage isn't how things are done.

We have seen him pass Bottas a few times before and this time he would have had a tyre advantage too.

I accept that Mercedes have a faster car and won fair and square today. But I don't accept that Max could not have won in his car under any circumstances. Max had track position and can make it difficult to pass. Different tactical decisions throughout and I believe he could have won. Maybe I'm wrong, but that is my opinion.

Jordan 199

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Bottas could start a race as the only car and still finish 3rd.

Cruel!!

2011

2011 wrote: »

Yes, but ask yourself, why was that? They started off the weekend with the same amount of tyres in the same condition.

Mercedes didn't need to use them. Was set to be a one-stopper as well.

Sure, but he is a particularly talented driver.

True.

We have seen him pass Bottas a few times before and this time he would have had a tyre advantage too.

I accept that Mercedes have a faster car and won fair and square today. But I don't accept that Max could not have won in his car under any circumstances. Max had track position and can make it difficult to pass. Different tactical decisions throughout and I believe he could have won. Maybe I'm wrong, but that is my opinion.

There are situations he could have won. A lucky safety car for example. Qualifying and race traffic has muddied the waters a bit, Mercedes are much faster in race trim. If you watch just before the first stop Hamilton had a serious run on Verstappen.

Joeface

For all the free practice Mercedes used pretty much just soft tyres. Commentators even mentioned it that it was strange. I think even max mentioned it during FP2 when he was told Lewis was out again on another new set of soft tyres.

I don't think you can beat Them on Sundays without luck for safety cars or rain. You have to beat them on Friday when they arrive .your plan has to be better . They were always going to 2 stop on medium tyres . They knew it was the faster way .
I mean Redbulls Radio chat just sounded defeated the min they realised what was happening .

It was a genius play . None of use saw it . ..well I didn't .
It has to dent Redbulls confidence some what.

Only thing Mercedes didn't get their way was Bottas could have been second . And piled the pressure on .

2011

Joeface wrote: »

For all the free practice Mercedes used pretty much just soft tyres. Commentators even mentioned it that it was strange. I think even max mentioned it during FP2 when he was told Lewis was out again on another new set of soft tyres.

Yes, that was clever. The race tactics started on Friday.

It was a genius play . None of use saw it . ..well I didn't .
It has to dent Redbulls confidence some what.

Yes it was genius. Unfortunately it killing F1.

Santan

Did anyone see the mazepin holding up Hamilton video, christ it was some over reaching by wolf to make the call to race control, looks like as soon as ham gets close enough to him he pulls over, did he just want him to pull over and park up just to let Hamilton pass. I think this is one time where mazepin is not in the wrong

Santan

Santan wrote: »

Did anyone see the mazepin holding up Hamilton video, christ it was some over reaching by wolf to make the call to race control, looks like as soon as ham gets close enough to him he pulls over, did he just want him to pull over and park up just to let Hamilton pass. I think this is one time where mazepin is not in the wrong

They played the audio when Hamilton was still a bit behind. Was some classic whinging alright.

quokula

2011 wrote: »

Yes, that was clever. The race tactics started on Friday.



Yes it was genius. Unfortunately it killing F1.

I'm not sure you could just call it purely clever tactics - it's not like anyone else couldn't have thought of the genius idea of not bothering to practice on the mediums, it's just that nobody else had a car with enough innate pace in it that they could be confident enough to just throw them on and be the comfortably fastest car on track when it came to race day.

Frank Bullitt

Turned it off after that overtake.

19 races to go, and already feels like RB are making a total balls of it.

Dont be at yourself

It’s a long season, and RB typically are strong at developing their car. If Perez can reliably qualify 4th, then we may have a title fight yet.

El_Duderino 09

Dont be at yourself wrote: »

It’s a long season, and RB typically are strong at developing their car. If Perez can reliably qualify 4th, then we may have a title fight yet.

Red Bull's development is often done after the championship is over and Mercedes has switched focus to the next year. I think Mercedes is the best at developing the car early in the season. See the difference between Mercedes in the first race and the other three races.

ednwireland

Santan wrote: »

Did anyone see the mazepin holding up Hamilton video, christ it was some over reaching by wolf to make the call to race control, looks like as soon as ham gets close enough to him he pulls over, did he just want him to pull over and park up just to let Hamilton pass. I think this is one time where mazepin is not in the wrong

pre-empting that mazepin would get in the way ??:D:D

Joeface

Money aside , I don't Like Mazepin , Don't think he is anywhere near ready for F1 . he does have a bit of talent he showed that in F2 but probably needed another year , and a mind coach to straight some of the attitude out., I think this weekend he was blamed for 2 incidents that were not his fault. He didn't hold up Lewis , slow to get out of the way yes but he didn't repeat what he did against Perez the week before . Bottas Held lewis up more and he was asked by the team to move.

The incident in Qual with Norris , That was caused by Yuki and Kimi who were on in laps and over took Mazepin who was trying to start a Qual run. If he had stayed behind those 2 he would have completely blocked Lando . He took the best decision for poor situation. Those 2 should get points as well if he got them .

This is it

I only saw highlights, and very little of that really, so can anyone tell me what happened Norris? Just a not great day at the office, car issues, strategy issues? Love seeing a young talented driver fighting at the front, or close to the front, and was surprised to see him slightly down the order.

El_Duderino 09

This is it wrote: »

I only saw highlights, and very little of that really, so can anyone tell me what happened Norris? Just a not great day at the office, car issues, strategy issues? Love seeing a young talented driver fighting at the front, or close to the front, and was surprised to see him slightly down the order.

I think he struggled all weekend. Ric was generally faster through the weekend - certainly in quali and the race.

Norris got caught behind Ocon and couldn't pass even though he was faster, so the gap to Ric grew.

Interesting that there hasn't been a race where both mclaren drivers have had similar pace. It's tended to be that one is up near the front and the other is in the midfield.

Frank Bullitt

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Red Bull's development is often done after the championship is over and Mercedes has switched focus to the next year. I think Mercedes is the best at developing the car early in the season. See the difference between Mercedes in the first race and the other three races.

I'd disagree but only by saying that Merc always start with a better refined car. It might not have seemed that way this year, but once they put numbers into the computers etc and run simulations, they had it sorted.

RB generally do develop well over a season, Merc didn't even bother properly doing that last year.

AMKC

OSI wrote: »

Max's poor pitstop was his own fault, he hadn't been called in and the crew only knew to get the tyres ready when he arrived in the pitlane.

I doubt that. If that was the case it would have took a lot longer than there 4.2 seconds which for Red Bull is still bad and should really have been 2.4 seconds or less it would have been in the 50s or over a minute like that time they fecked up with Rivviardo in Monoco. Weather a 2.4 second pit stop would have meant Max winning the race I doubt it. I think even with a pit stop of 2.0 seconds he still would have lost the race as Mercedes just had the better strategy and better tyre on and Lewis could push harder.

muckwarrior

Two guys were still running out with tyres just as Max pulled into the pit box. Obviously they got some warning he was coming in, but it seems Max made the call himself, not the team.

El_Duderino 09

It was a balls up but I'm happy that Max is starting to call his own strategy on the fly. He must have felt he knew what he was doing and another lap would have been too much on those tyres. I hope he learns from it and gives the team more notice of his decisions in future (and the team is expecting max to make changes to strategy and not just stick to whatever pre-set plan they had).

I wish I could find the clip but I'm pretty sure Hamilton was about to pass Verstappen, he had a run on him out of the chicane. Verstappen would have lost another 2-3 seconds if he'd stayed out one more lap. Though Hamilton likely would have come in once he had a couple of second buffer.

Found a replay. In turn 10 Verstappen was slow. Turn 12 Brundle comments on how much tighter a line Hamilton can take, Verstappen (despite taking a much wider line) has a big snap of oversteer on the exit. Turn 13 Hamilton closes right onto the back of him. Close shot for the chicane and Hamilton is right up behind him. All through the lap Verstappen couldn't close up on lapped traffic ahead so had no DRS.
It was very reminiscent of the tyre-cliff days.

AMKC

Deleted User wrote: »

Found a replay. In turn 10 Verstappen was slow. Turn 12 Brundle comments on how much tighter a line Hamilton can take, Verstappen (despite taking a much wider line) has a big snap of oversteer on the exit. Turn 13 Hamilton closes right onto the back of him. Close shot for the chicane and Hamilton is right up behind him. All through the lap Verstappen couldn't close up on lapped traffic ahead so had no DRS.
It was very reminiscent of the tyre-cliff days.

Why not post the clip here then or at least a link to it?

AMKC

AMKC wrote: »

Why not post the clip here then or at least a link to it?

Found a replay on a certain device connected to my telly so I don't even have a URL I can send on the down low. :pac:
EDIT: Highlights on YouTube (and I think official site is the same) just shows Verstappen pulling into his pitbox, very irritating.