Appeal of Infraction

I would like to appeal recent infractions received in the Gender identity thread.

I have supplied context and my POV elsewhere and am directed here.

Beasty

You have received cards from 2 separate mods in that thread

Are you contesting both cards, and have you attempted to resolve the card(s) with the relevant mod(s) via PM?

I will contest the first and send you the relevant PMs as I have discussed it with Mod.

I have not decided yet what to do about the second. It was also unfair due to lack of consideration of context. But I feel there is no point in communicating with the Mod about it as I know what they will say. If it is possible to contest it straight away I will also send you the relevant context as I have made a PM about it.

Beasty

I am not dealing with your appeal. A CMod will undertake a review

Please post the PMs here

If you do not wish to discuss the second with the mod, there will be no appeal against that one. The process requires you to discuss it and attempt to resolve the dispute directly with the mod via PM

Thanks

Beasty

Beasty wrote: »

I am not dealing with your appeal. A CMod will undertake a review

Please post the PMs here

If you do not wish to discuss the second with the mod, there will be no appeal against that one. The process requires you to discuss it and attempt to resolve the dispute directly with the mod via PM

Thanks

Thanks.
I have PMd the second Mod re second infraction to start the dispute resolution process and will get back here with respect to it shortly.

Regarding the first infraction- this is the PM trail

From Ten of Swords :

Dear isha,

You have been warned for Trolling.

(Etc. The usual note)

Moderator Note

Transphobic remark - clownfish

Your post:

We are deep into the doodoo alteady, so early in the thread. So tricky to tell those assigned female at birth from the clownfish...


I wrote back :

If you have read the thread you will know I have been quite clear that I have not used clownfish as a transphobic remark.
I refute all suggestion that I have trolled.
It is clear that my post was framed as a phobic remark by those reporting - but how the heck could anyone really truly imagine I would call a trans person a ''clownfish''? It is patently absurd. Read my posts below quoted. I was not referring to any human of any type or identity at all. It was a reference to clownfish as a shorthand meme for an argument frequently made in the debate re clownfish changing sex, in response to Leroy expressing confusion about whether or not there was really any difference between males or females.

As I do not refer to people as ''assigned male or female at birth'' either, that phrase was not referring to females. So there was ZERO comparison being made between women and trans women, ie Zero suggestion or intention that women were ''assigned female at birth'' and Zero intention that trans women are ''clownfish''. The absolute state of such stupidity to think I would ever say that about trans people! I completely object to being framed as a despicable bigot who would say such a thing.

I would like this sanction immediately referred on to an Admin or C-Mod or someone else further up the chain please.
Thank you.


I have been a long time in this debate elsewhere. Clownfish is a well known trope or meme in the debate. It does not refer to male or female humans. I was not using it in that way but rather referencing the meme.
It refers to the argument put forward that because clownfish (or slugs or whatever) can change sex therefore humans can. It is intellectually a stupid argument to use for a sexually dimorphic species. I was using the word clownfish to refer in a summarising way to this tired old argument.


and

No. I said assigned female at birth and clownfish in a sardonic line.
These are both well known tropes in this debate. It is straining literalness to its incoherent conclusion to read otherwise
Assigned female at birth is a stupid phrase that has come into use. I was mocking that phrase, and not refering to females. I would never call a new born girl child assigned female at birth. It is beyond stupid. Nor would I ever call a trans woman a clownfish. I was referencing the clownfish argument.


This explanation has not been accepted by Ten of Swords.


Hi Isha,

The post you were carded for was trying to goad a reaction from posters on the thread and your use of 'clownfish' to distinguish those 'assigned female at birth' (to use your own words) was likely to get said reaction.

It was blatant trolling and your explanation does not convince me otherwise, I am not overturning the card.

If you wish to appeal this you can do so in the dispute resolution forum

Kind regards

Beasty

Thank you

I will alert the CMods

ancapailldorcha

Hi,

I can look into this for you. Thanks for posting the PM's.

Beasty

I understand the second card has been lifted as a result of discussion with the mod

That leaves the one referred to above subject to this appeal

ancapailldorcha

Hi Isha,

I have had a chance to look at this for you and I concur completely with the moderator.

To be honest, the remark for which you were warned comes across as being both in bad faith and transphobic. You could easily have used the term "trans" instead of "clownfish", suggesting that the latter term was chosen in the hope of provoking a reaction.

I am upholding the warning. You may appeal for an admin review if you'd like.

ancapailldorcha

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Hi Isha,

I have had a chance to look at this for you and I concur completely with the moderator.

To be honest, the remark for which you were warned comes across as being both in bad faith and transphobic. You could easily have used the term "trans" instead of "clownfish", suggesting that the latter term was chosen in the hope of provoking a reaction.

I am upholding the warning. You may appeal for an admin review if you'd like.

Why would I have used the term trans instead of clownfish? I was not referring to trans people.

It was, as I have explained, a reference to the clownfish argument.

What you are believing essentially is that I wanted to say - when one cannot tell the difference between women and trans women. This is a completely false reading of the sentence. That meaning did not cross my mind when I wrote what was, at worst, perhaps too glib a remark. It never intended to be transphobic.

If I must be sanctioned then change the reason to use of sarcasm and not transphobia, as the latter is completely wrong as a reason to sanction me. I am not "transphobic" and will not accept being called transphobic or being accused of transphobia. Just as I would not accept being called homophobic or racist etc which would be similarly abhorrent to me. It is not a term or accusation to cast about lightly as it has a very ugly meaning.

As I had no intention to refer to trans people, and my conscience is absolutey clear on that, I will continue the appeal to an Admin out of principle.

Thank you.

Mickeroo

Having looked at your post and the reasoning for the card provided by both the mod and cmod I can't see any reason to reverse the card or indeed change the reason it was given.

Marking this resolved.