Phoenix Park littering

highdef

I've gone camping on the beach/dunes at brittas bay a few times with a large group of friends in the past. We knew we'd be generating rubbish so we took big black rubbish sacks and before heading off, we'd pick up every single piece of rubbish, put it all in the bags and bring it home with us where we would dispose of it properly there. If you arrived at the same spot at the beach after we'd left, you wouldn't know we had been there moments before.

I actually can't understand why people can't do that kind of expected basic cleanup after themselves in general. If you're visiting the park or beach for an afternoon, a standard sized grocery bag per person would be more than enough to fit your rubbish into to bring home with you. Makes so much more sense rush having bins.

Man Vs ManUre

We should just train the deer’s to eat the rubbish and problemo solved.

Treppen

VonLuck wrote: »

That's not something that you can do overnight. That takes years of education from a very young age. You need a solution in the short term, which is more bins.



You failed to highlight the next part of my sentence which said to empty them more regularly. A full bin attracts rubbish, an empty one doesn't.

Also, no need to be a pedant about my rocket science comment. You're fully aware that it's a common idiom.

So now we've more bins that need to be emptied more regularly.

What about the previous situation where there were less bins which needed to be emptied more regularly.

Even if you put skips dotted around the park they wouldn't be emptied regularly enough. More bins attract more rubbish in them + the rubbish beside them. It's not brain surgery.

rolling boh

Unless these skips that plenty suggest are needed around where people gather are monitored they just get filled up by people who have no rubbish contract it's almost impossible to police .Loads of households have no such contract and just get rid of it anyway they can .If we get a nice summer litter will all over the place as we are told to have an outdoor summer .

PhilOssophy

In Australia, almost every park has no bins and a "leave no trace" policy. I remember going in to Kakadu National Park and we were getting a map and the man giving it to us said "If you bring it in, you bring it out. We've had problems with your countrymen before".
Needless to say, their parks were for the most part spotless. You might find some around Bondi or St Kilda in a different state.

VonLuck

Treppen wrote: »

So now we've more bins that need to be emptied more regularly.

What about the previous situation where there were less bins which needed to be emptied more regularly.

Even if you put skips dotted around the park they wouldn't be emptied regularly enough. More bins attract more rubbish in them + the rubbish beside them. It's not brain surgery.

Are you suggesting we remove bins altogether? By your logic we'd have a litter free city: more bins = more rubbish, less bins = less rubbish, no bins = no rubbish?

Treppen

VonLuck wrote: »

Are you suggesting we remove bins altogether? By your logic we'd have a litter free city: more bins = more rubbish, less bins = less rubbish, no bins = no rubbish?

Yes , remove bins, if you bring it in then you can bring it home. Our kids school has introduced the same policy for school lunches and we've learned to avoid packaged stuff for lunch, so that's good. Where I teach is trying to cut waste too, bins in corridors have been removed, it's made students more aware of their waste and there's far less littering around. The odd time I've had some rubbish to hand and I'd instinctively looked for where the bin used to be...no bin... Into the pocket or bag and bring it home.

Ive never found it any hassle going for picnics in a park or beach, I just bring the stuff home. In fact, I'd prefer to bring it home as it'll be somewhat properly segregated , instead whatever we dump into the park bins all goes to the tip, food or cardboard or aluminium. Now... I'm no fool either, I know a lot of the green bin "recyclable" stuff often goes to incinerators anyway, but at least it's accounted for.

So if I can do it...and I'm no brain surgeon or rocket scientist... then so can anyone.

For cities then there's an understanding from the outset.
1. There are no bins here. There never will be.
2 What are you going to do with your rubbish?
3. There is only one logical solution.

VonLuck

Treppen wrote: »

Ive never found it any hassle going for picnics in a park or beach, I just bring the stuff home. In fact, I'd prefer to bring it home as it'll be somewhat properly segregated , instead whatever we dump into the park bins all goes to the tip, food or cardboard or aluminium. Now... I'm no fool either, I know a lot of the green bin "recyclable" stuff often goes to incinerators anyway, but at least it's accounted for.

So if I can do it...and I'm no brain surgeon or rocket scientist... then so can anyone.

This is how you think, not how the general public think. There are plenty of people who don't give a damn.

Treppen wrote: »

For cities then there's an understanding from the outset.
1. There are no bins here. There never will be.
2 What are you going to do with your rubbish?
3. There is only one logical solution.

Yes, throw it on the ground. We've seen it time and time again. You're expecting way too much from people. You can't just say "bring home your rubbish" and expect everyone to obey.

highdef

[quote="VonLuck;117326183"You're expecting way too much from people. You can't just say "bring home your rubbish" and expect everyone to obey.[/quote]

Why do you say that an expectation for people to bring their rubbish home is "expecting way too much"?

As far as I can see it, it's asking very very little. All that people need to bring with them when heading to a park/beach/whatever is a bag. When empty, they take up very little room and in fact the chances are that if they have litter when going home, they most likely had a bag to start with anyway in order to carry whatever stuff they brought to their destination.

So it's a simple case of putting the rubbish into the bag or bags that they most likely have on their person anyway and go home with it. In short, they go home with less stuff than what they went out with earlier in the day.

How on earth do you classify that as "expecting way too much?". It's expecting f#@k all!

VonLuck

highdef wrote: »

Why do you say that an expectation for people to bring their rubbish home is "expecting way too much"?

As far as I can see it, it's asking very very little. All that people need to bring with them when heading to a park/beach/whatever is a bag. When empty, they take up very little room and in fact the chances are that if they have litter when going home, they most likely had a bag to start with anyway in order to carry whatever stuff they brought to their destination.

So it's a simple case of putting the rubbish into the bag or bags that they most likely have on their person anyway and go home with it. In short, they go home with less stuff than what they went out with earlier in the day.

How on earth do you classify that as "expecting way too much?". It's expecting f#@k all!

Because everyone has seen what happens. Do you not think that people are already asked not to litter? They do it anyways!

Obviously they should bring home their rubbish but just telling them is going to have zero effect in the short term. Years of education from a young age is the only way to change this behaviour.

PhilOssophy

It shouldn't be too much to expect. But people are scum. The only thing people understand is "how much is this costing me". If you add 50c of a recycling charge to a can, which they can get back at the local deposit return machine, that they might understand. And if they don't, there's plenty who will see it as easy money and gets rid of a huge amount of the by-volume (if not by weight) rubbish.

Treppen

VonLuck wrote: »

Because everyone has seen what happens. Do you not think that people are already asked not to litter? They do it anyways!

Obviously they should bring home their rubbish but just telling them is going to have zero effect in the short term. Years of education from a young age is the only way to change this behaviour.

They do it anyway because they have the same old tired excuses.. Not enough bins, bins not emptied quick enough.. I'll just throw it nearby.

VonLuck

Treppen wrote: »

They do it anyway because they have the same old tired excuses.. Not enough bins, bins not emptied quick enough.. I'll just throw it nearby.

And why do you think people will suddenly start bringing their rubbish home if there are no bins when they just throw it anywhere on the ground if there are very few bins?

Thoie

VonLuck wrote: »

Simply telling them to bring their rubbish home won't change anything. That takes years of education from a young age and even a cultural change. Bins are the temporary solution to the problem and education is the long term goal.

There's been anti-litter campaigns on the go in primary schools and up from at least the 1980s - how much more education is needed? Surely at this stage there can't be anyone out there over the age of 6 who isn't already aware that littering is not OK?

I remember one poster was something like "bin it or bring it home".

VonLuck

Thoie wrote: »

There's been anti-litter campaigns on the go in primary schools and up from at least the 1980s - how much more education is needed? Surely at this stage there can't be anyone out there over the age of 6 who isn't already aware that littering is not OK?

I remember one poster was something like "bin it or bring it home".

So if we can't teach children not to litter, what hope do we have? Clearly there is some failing in education if people grow up thinking that it's okay to throw rubbish wherever they like.

Allinall

VonLuck wrote: »

So if we can't teach children not to litter, what hope do we have? Clearly there is some failing in education if people grow up thinking that it's okay to throw rubbish wherever they like.

A few hefty fines may be the best educator.

Treppen

VonLuck wrote: »

And why do you think people will suddenly start bringing their rubbish home if there are no bins when they just throw it anywhere on the ground if there are very few bins?

Because there will be no excuse.

Treppen

VonLuck wrote: »

And why do you think people will suddenly start bringing their rubbish home if there are no bins when they just throw it anywhere on the ground if there are very few bins?

Look at the photo, it was thrown around the bins.

Treppen

VonLuck wrote: »

So if we can't teach children not to litter, what hope do we have? Clearly there is some failing in education if people grow up thinking that it's okay to throw rubbish wherever they like.

Parents are primary educators.
I tell my kids to bring rubbish home...

Listening to parents on radio the last few days saying that their little darlings had no choice.... not enough bins... Council not emptying quick enough (sound familiar?)..God love em.

PhilOssophy

Treppen wrote: »

Parents are primary educators.
I tell my kids to bring rubbish home...

Listening to parents on radio the last few days saying that their little darlings had no choice.... not enough bins... Council not emptying quick enough (sound familiar?)..God love em.

And the same parents probably think teaching their kid to use a bin in McDonalds or the cinema is also not worth their while because their is somebody else to clean up after them.

VonLuck

Treppen wrote: »

Because there will be no excuse.

The excuse will be that there are no bins! Not that it's justified, but that's what they will claim.

Treppen wrote: »

Look at the photo, it was thrown around the bins.

I was in the Phoenix Park this morning. Litter strewn across the green area around the Wellington Memorial. Nothing to do with it being left beside bins.

Treppen wrote: »

Parents are primary educators.
I tell my kids to bring rubbish home...

Listening to parents on radio the last few days saying that their little darlings had no choice.... not enough bins... Council not emptying quick enough (sound familiar?)..God love em.

So how do we get parents to teach kids to put rubbish into bins?

whisky_galore

Treppen wrote: »

They do it anyway because they have the same old tired excuses.. Not enough bins, bins not emptied quick enough.. I'll just throw it nearby.

Funny that in some other countries they dont drop their shyte helplessly after them. We are an embarrassment.
In Japan dog walkers bring bags AND spray disinfectant to clean up.

Here it's a major struggle for people to even bag it. And then they leave the bag of dogsh1t for someone else to pick up.