Is Journal.ie Opinion Piece Fake?

hawley

https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/misinformation-5375100-Apr2021/

What are people's opinions on this article? I think that it's fake and is a smear on conspiracy theorists. The story of the article is completely unbelievable. You have a left wing feminist dating someone who is making all these comments. He's supposedly attending family events during the last year, even though he sounds like someone who wouldn't wear a mask. There's no sense of any relationship between her and him in the way she speaks of him.

Most of the article is just a lecture about conspiracy theories. I'm not a conspiracy theorist btw. They closed the comments on it, something they don't usually do for this type of story. They publish "Fact Check" pieces, but seem happy to spread their own disinformation.

Silentcorner

If you imagine The Journal is a website run by the teenage feminist daughters of rich people, the content makes more sense.

It's possibly fake, but I've had friends fall down the rabbit hole too. That article sounds very familiar to me, as I too had to distance myself over time due to their behaviour.

MrStuffins

hawley wrote: »

https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/misinformation-5375100-Apr2021/

What are people's opinions on this article? I think that it's fake and is a smear on conspiracy theorists.

So you think an article on Conspiracy Theorists is a Conspiracy...... but you say you're not a Conspiracy Theorist?

Nice try George Soros!

Seems perfectly plausible to me - the hatred of mainstream media, introverted man in his 30’s, the isolation, Bitcoin, deep state. All pretty standard stuff I’d imagine in the conspiracy theory world.

hawley

MrStuffins wrote: »

So you think an article on Conspiracy Theorists is a Conspiracy...... but you say you're not a Conspiracy Theorist?

Nice try George Soros!

It doesn't seem believable that someone like her would be dating a person who's making homophobic, transphobic and xenophobic comments. There's no sense of any relationship in the article, it just moves from a person becoming obsessed with conspiracy theories on to a long lecture about the dangers involved.

Eric Cartman

It just reads to me as a made up piece to play into the “ incel parable”

You see it all the time on the internet , women using the word “incel” to insult men for holding viewpoints they disagree with , applying a value system that possessing certain views or disagreeing with women in general makes you less attractive , and in these peoples heads sexual attraction is the only unit of value / self worth.

Stories like this implying that if youre in to conspiracy theories / right wing politics etc.. that you will either lose your partner or never have one (to these people, usually women but sometimes men) this is a fait worse than death , remaining alone and being considered unattractive.

However to the people down these rabbit holes, they've either usually given up on the idea of relationships, don't care or are wise to this trope. It really says more about the author than the intended target that the worst possible outcome they could muster for going down a conspiracy rabbit hole is ‘you'll be single’

Tork

It reads like something an American screenwriter who has been in lots of therapy would have written. The person who wrote this just read some of the many articles online about losing somebody to conspiracy theory-land and created a persona. Having said that, I wouldn't disagree with everything said in it. I know a few people who have gone down that rabbit hole and I'm very glad they're not in my immediate circle. In both cases, they started off being somewhat disillusioned with something and sought opinions and answers elsewhere. It spiralled after that.

hotmail.com

The Journal's recent attempts to disspell conspiracies and myths etc has just resulted in it becoming an amateur spokesman for the government.

Amateur hour at the Journal.

Eric Cartman

hotmail.com wrote: »

The Journal's recent attempts to disspell conspiracies and myths etc has just resulted in it becoming an amateur spokesman for the government.

Amateur hour at the Journal.

Which is quite funny because theyre the first ones to jump to conspiracies or accusations when it suits their agenda

mcmoustache

It's possible that it's completely made up. That's the case for anyone writing something about their experience. That being said, I don't see any glaring red flags there.

In my own life I've seen a few people go down this road of believing the crap they see on facebook. An ex girlfriend has gone antivax and anti mask but she seems perfectly sane on the outside. My dealer has swallowed a heap of the QAnon stuff but he's also struggling with the current restrictions and it's definitely affecting his mental health. A Bavarian acquaintance, who really should know better, became a Syria truther and supports the invasion of Ukraine. It's obvious where he's getting his information from.

These are fairly normal people in real life and not the typical deranged conspiracy theorist from popular culture. You wouldn't know about their bat-shíttery unless you spent some time with them. Online, who knows what kind of nonsense they're spouting but in the real world, they tone it down a lot.

This has gotten much worse in recent years. You can even see it here - loads of people dismissing articles by publications that can be held liable for false stories in favour of anonymous shíte of facebook, dodgy twitter accounts or publications disguised as news. A lot of the problem is that you can put anything on the internet and there are billions of people out there who don't understand that. They can't tell the difference between a factual article from bbc.co.uk and nonsense that's presented like a factual article from mybbcnews.com. I don't know how easily you can fix that.

mcmoustache

hawley wrote: »

It doesn't seem believable that someone like her would be dating a person who's making homophobic, transphobic and xenophobic comments. There's no sense of any relationship in the article, it just moves from a person becoming obsessed with conspiracy theories on to a long lecture about the dangers involved.

People's standards tend to drop as they get older. It can drop by a lot.

banie01

Donie O'Sullivan over at CNN an Irish lad doing well stateside has done some really interesting reporting on the impact of conspiracy theories and in particular Qanon have had on families.

The journal piece I don't know if it's true.
I do however have personal experience of one person who followed a rabbit hole of CT long before Q.
Lost his family, job and became homeless.

Was recently discovered to be living "wild" and involuntarily sectioned and spent 4 months in a secure ward.

These theories have consequences, some folk honestly believe they are party to secret knowledge that needs to be shared and meltdown when they are questioned or confronted.

I think the appeal of conspiracy theories is the notion that you have access to secrets that others don't. I say this because any time I've encountered an outspoken conspiracy theorist it's always the same smug superiority angle they go for.

I have another term to describe this behaviour. Deep seated insecurity. Or perhaps low self esteem. It certainly doesn't come from a position of strength.

hotmail.com

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Which is quite funny because theyre the first ones to jump to conspiracies or accusations when it suits their agenda

Do they have an agenda?

I'm not even sure they're intelligent enough to have one.

They just get their information from other sources.

Most people don't take them seriously.

hotmail.com

banie01 wrote: »

Donie O'Sullivan over at CNN an Irish lad doing well stateside has done some really interesting reporting on the impact of conspiracy theories and in particular Qanon have had on families.

The journal piece I don't know if it's true.
I do however have personal experience of one person who followed a rabbit hole of CT long before Q.
Lost his family, job and became homeless.

Was recently discovered to be living "wild" and involuntarily sectioned and spent 4 months in a secure ward.

These theories have consequences, some folk honestly believe they are party to secret knowledge that needs to be shared and meltdown when they are questioned or confronted.

This sounds like mental health issues.

mcmoustache

mcmoustache wrote: »

It's possible that it's completely made up. That's the case for anyone writing something about their experience. That being said, I don't see any glaring red flags there.

In my own life I've seen a few people go down this road of believing the crap they see on facebook. An ex girlfriend has gone antivax and anti mask but she seems perfectly sane on the outside. My dealer has swallowed a heap of the QAnon stuff but he's also struggling with the current restrictions and it's definitely affecting his mental health. A Bavarian acquaintance, who really should know better, became a Syria truther and supports the invasion of Ukraine. It's obvious where he's getting his information from.

These are fairly normal people in real life and not the typical deranged conspiracy theorist from popular culture. You wouldn't know about their bat-shíttery unless you spent some time with them. Online, who knows what kind of nonsense they're spouting but in the real world, they tone it down a lot.

This has gotten much worse in recent years. You can even see it here - loads of people dismissing articles by publications that can be held liable for false stories in favour of anonymous shíte of facebook, dodgy twitter accounts or publications disguised as news. A lot of the problem is that you can put anything on the internet and there are billions of people out there who don't understand that. They can't tell the difference between a factual article from bbc.co.uk and nonsense that's presented like a factual article from mybbcnews.com. I don't know how easily you can fix that.

What’s a Syria truther? Some conspiracies are false but conspiracies go on all the time.

Irish people should be more aware of that than most. There was a state, church, police and journalist silence on mass child rape.

Hurrache

Eric Cartman wrote: »

It just reads to me as a made up piece to play into the “ incel parable”

What in the name of jaysus is this rubbish?!?

banie01

hotmail.com wrote: »

This sounds like mental health issues.

Driven and compounded by their believing they were party to secret knowledge.

Not denying it certainly became a mental health issue, but the descent into CT drove the condition.

Leg End Reject

A desire to live off-grid but working for a global media organisation?

Seems legit ...

banie01

banie01 wrote: »

Driven and compounded by their believing they were party to secret knowledge.

Not denying it certainly became a mental health issue, but the descent into CT drove the condition.

I think you’ve got the arrow of causation wrong.

Donald Trump

I have absolutely no time for these conspiracy theorists. None of them.



I think that they are likely all just part of a false-flag government psyop to distract the people from what their overlords are really up to.

mcmoustache

banie01 wrote: »

These theories have consequences, some folk honestly believe they are party to secret knowledge that needs to be shared and meltdown when they are questioned or confronted.

Deleted User wrote: »

I think the appeal of conspiracy theories is the notion that you have access to secrets that others don't.

That was definitely the case for those types back before the mass disinformation that goes on now. One friend back in the day was into the Mayan 2012 and freeman of the land stuff. That was definitely in the "secret knowledge" category.

It's different today though. Now, state-actors, non-state actors and con artists are using social media for their own disinformation campaigns and people are simply believing what's presented to them. That one about drinking water to prevent covid comes to mind. It was going the rounds on whatsapp and other platforms this time last year.

banie01

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I think you’ve got the arrow of causation wrong.

I don't think I do tbh.
I can certainly see why it would appear that way though.

The more prone to mental health issues such as OCD, paranoia and other potentially harmful mental health issues may well get sick at some point and need intervention.

However, when someone becomes convinced thanks to copious amounts of CT theory reading and discussion with no rebuttal or critical thinking applied, it will accelerate a descent in some, and create it in others.

The lad became utterly convinced he was being tracked via 3/4g and not only was he being controlled by "foreign" agents but that his family were too.
He went wild to avoid electricity, radios and "control" but conversely still stayed active via phone with forums and emailers that actively reinforced his delusion

I don't think it's as simple as causation, rather one will compound and escalate the other.
Not all CTer's are crazy, and not all crazies are CTer's but when those 2 issues merge.
It escalates and greatly compounds the effect of both.

Wibbs

mcmoustache wrote: »

It's possible that it's completely made up. That's the case for anyone writing something about their experience. That being said, I don't see any glaring red flags there.

I'd be willing to bet it is made up alright. It's common enough to see editorials pushing a periodical's viewpoint dressed up as "true story by Anon". An outlet with another viewpoint could come out with "My ex was a feminist, beware" type story.

Though like you the gist of it rings true to me as far as a section of society does tend to think. Not just men either, I personally know as many women who would hold some such views(especially on the anti vax thing for some reason. I know more anti vax women than men). The current crisis has brought more to the fore, as crises tend to. When people are nervous and scared and more, their routine is interrupted and they have more time to think, they tend to start thinking and that's not a great plan if that's something novel to them. I don't mean that in a dismissive way. I mean that I've found a lot of people's thinking as an adult is a) fixed by around 30 and b) everyday life routines take up most of their thinking. Take that routine away and that otherwise positive human skill of pattern matching can lead down all sorts of rabbit holes.

Donald Trump

Donald Trump wrote: »

I have absolutely no time for these conspiracy theorists. None of them.

I think that they are likely all just part of a false-flag government psyop to distract the people from what their overlords are really up to.

You are being funny. But there’s perhaps some truth to it. Pizzagate vs Epstein. Two conspiracies about elite pedophilia, one more likely that the other. But does one discredit the other?

mcmoustache

Deleted User wrote: »

What’s a Syria truther? Some conspiracies are false but conspiracies go on all the time.

Irish people should be more aware of that than most. There was a state, church, police and journalist silence on mass child rape.

Conspiracies happen all the time but "conspiracy theory" is the term given to those unfounded ones that are usually pulled from someone's arse by bad dot-connection skills or just for a laugh. Like the flat earth one.

On Syria truthers, those are people who promote and possibly believe things such as Assad not using chemical weapons or that the white helmets are the real terrorists.

mcmoustache

mcmoustache wrote: »

It's different today though.

It's not. I have very recent experience with a formerly close friend. Very unpleasant. Still definitely a thing.

banie01

Donie's report on Qanon and effects on family.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjnu5pj1Ku4

Wibbs

Leg End Reject wrote: »

A desire to live off-grid but working for a global media organisation?

Seems legit ...

That part doesn't trouble me. Many can hold such cognitive dissonance quite easily. EG I know enthusiastic Green folks who are also incredibly wasteful. Or people on the treadmill looking to get off at some time In The Future(tm). I've known quite the number of corporate cubicle jockeys who yearn for living off grid in a yurt. I'd say media types would be even more likely to be like this.

mcmoustache

Donald Trump wrote: »

I have absolutely no time for these conspiracy theorists. None of them.



I think that they are likely all just part of a false-flag government psyop to distract the people from what their overlords are really up to.

Many of them are, actually. Although the finger is often pointed at the wrong government.

Wibbs

Wibbs wrote: »

I personally know as many women who would hold some such views(especially on the anti vax thing for some reason. I know more anti vax women than men).

That comes from hostility to the medical and pharmaceutical industry in general. In fact there's at least two Lifestyle journalists for the Independent who were caught up in this, at least on social media.

Remember we are talking about people who believe in holistic medicine, homeopathy, natural solutions, "natural" herbs, and meditation ( the only thing that does work scientifically). And vaccines have caused problems, to be fair.

So that's where that comes from.

Eric Cartman

[Deleted User] wrote: »

That comes from hostility to the medical and pharmaceutical industry in general. In fact there's at least two Lifestyle journalists for the Independent who were caught up in this, at least on social media.

Remember we are talking about people who believe in holistic medicine, homeopathy, natural solutions, "natural" herbs, and meditation ( the only thing that does work scientifically). And vaccines have caused problems, to be fair.

So that's where that comes from.

Thats it. The anti vaxx / anti medical stuff is definitely the conspiracy of choice for women.

mcmoustache

mcmoustache wrote: »

that the white helmets are the real terrorists.

Hmm. you see that is not really on the same plane as pizza gate or flat earth is it? When it comes to war western governments lie all the time, and use propaganda all the time. I won't say more here as it would derail the discussion.

mcmoustache

Deleted User wrote: »

It's not. I have very recent experience with a formerly close friend. Very unpleasant. Still definitely a thing.

Maybe. I still think that there's a big difference in how people get their hands on this stuff now compared to 15 years ago. In the past, you sort of had to seek it out. Now you just log on to facebook or youtube and they present it to you. I'm not saying that the end result is the same, just that the motivation isn't as confined to the search for secret knowledge that it once was.

spaceHopper

hawley wrote: »

It doesn't seem believable that someone like her would be dating a person who's making homophobic, transphobic and xenophobic comments. There's no sense of any relationship in the article, it just moves from a person becoming obsessed with conspiracy theories on to a long lecture about the dangers involved.

She's not dating him any more she dumped him. I don't know if it's true or made up but there are people like him out there a friend of my wife's is sending me text messages with look at this covid is fake video ... and there is a sub on reddit for families of Q-Anon victims some of it is very sad.

On the bright side my mother is getting her second microsoft injection this week.

AndrewJRenko

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It's possibly fake, but I've had friends fall down the rabbit hole too. That article sounds very familiar to me, as I too had to distance myself over time due to their behaviour.

Me too

Fake or not, who cares? The Journal is just an entertainment site at this stage. Makes a change from reading their "how much money I spent this week" things.

busunderer

hawley wrote: »

https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/misinformation-5375100-Apr2021/

What are people's opinions on this article? I think that it's fake and is a smear on conspiracy theorists. The story of the article is completely unbelievable. You have a left wing feminist dating someone who is making all these comments. He's supposedly attending family events during the last year, even though he sounds like someone who wouldn't wear a mask. There's no sense of any relationship between her and him in the way she speaks of him.

Most of the article is just a lecture about conspiracy theories. I'm not a conspiracy theorist btw. They closed the comments on it, something they don't usually do for this type of story. They publish "Fact Check" pieces, but seem happy to spread their own disinformation.

the exact same thought as I read that article - thing is, who is funding this waffle?

Shebean

hawley wrote: »

What are people's opinions on this article? I think that it's fake and is a smear on conspiracy theorists. The story of the article is completely unbelievable. You have a left wing feminist dating someone who is making all these comments. He's supposedly attending family events during the last year, even though he sounds like someone who wouldn't wear a mask. There's no sense of any relationship between her and him in the way she speaks of him.

Most of the article is just a lecture about conspiracy theories. I'm not a conspiracy theorist btw. They closed the comments on it, something they don't usually do for this type of story. They publish "Fact Check" pieces, but seem happy to spread their own disinformation.

I'll say it's a very convenient vehicle.
I'd be curious, if this type of questioning was the first date, surely she'd have an idea of who he was before accepting?

biko

“WHAT DO YOU think about capitalism?”

This was his opener on our first date.

How to spot an Antifa


But yes, the whole piece smells of fakeness and lumping all the "bad" together in one person.

hotmail.com

banie01 wrote: »

Donie's report on Qanon and effects on family.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjnu5pj1Ku4

Let's not import American crap into our country then.

rightmove

Silentcorner wrote: »

If you imagine The Journal is a website run by the teenage feminist daughters of rich people, the content makes more sense.

Bullseye sir/madam bullseye

osarusan

The ex-boyfriend may not have existed, but we've seen most if not all of the conspiracies mentioned in the article spouted here in CA also.

You wonder what it is, what inner need it fulfils, that gets people convinced that anything and everything is a huge conspiracy and nobody can be trusted (apart from that one youtuber who shows them the light).

osarusan

osarusan wrote: »

The ex-boyfriend may not have existed, but we've seen most if not all of the conspiracies mentioned in the article spouted here in CA also.

You wonder what it is, what inner need it fulfils, that gets people convinced that anything and everything is a huge conspiracy and nobody can be trusted (apart from that one youtuber who shows them the light).

Loneliness, low self-esteem, isolation, inferiority complex are some of the symptoms these people commonly carry when I encounter them. My guess is the conspiracies make them feel empowered and gives them an "enemy" to direct their anger at.

The alternative would be to take the difficult steps necessary to better yourself. But you know, YouTube, innit.

biko

Maybe it boils down to "can media corporations be trusted?"
There seems to be two sides here, the doubters and the non-doubters.

For instance - the doubters will doubt this Journal article, while non-doubters will not.

mcmoustache

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Thats it. The anti vaxx / anti medical stuff is definitely the conspiracy of choice for women.

It's all tied to the holistic/natural stuff. I've pointed out before that Alex Jones and Gwyneth Palthrow sell literally the same stuff from the same company to their marks, just with different branding.

biko

mcmoustache wrote: »

It's all tied to the holistic/natural stuff. I've pointed out before that Alex Jones and Gwyneth Palthrow sell literally the same stuff from the same company to their marks, just with different branding.

Is this one of those occasions when people say literally but mean figuratively?

biko

biko wrote: »

Maybe it boils down to "can media corporations be trusted?"
There seems to be two sides here, the doubters and the non-doubters.

For instance - the doubters will doubt this Journal article, while some will not.

Right, there's nothing wrong at all with being skeptical of the media, but to then go to some random internet source and believe that JFK junior is going to arrest Joe Biden on inauguration day?

It's not as rational a dichotomy as you suggest.

biko

Deleted User wrote: »

Right, there's nothing wrong at all with being skeptical of the media, but to then go to some random internet source and believe that JFK junior is going to arrest Joe Biden on inauguration day?

It's not as rational a dichotomy as you suggest.

Yes, and no. People will believe all kinds of stuff, it's doesn't make them any less human than others.

And in what category do you place people that think this article is fake?

It seems pretty irrational of you to brand the opposition as "Loneliness, low self-esteem, isolation, inferiority complex are some of the symptoms these people commonly carry when I encounter them".
Have you really got to know one so well you can judge this?

biko

biko wrote: »

".
Have you really got to know one so well you can judge this?

Yes, as I have alluded to a few times already.