Grass Harrow

Ivor172

I’m thinking of buying a grass harrow to clean up pasture and overseed, either a 3m or 4.5m palatine or similar and I want to post some questions:
1. I have an 80hp tractor, is the 4.5 too much?
2. I want to fit a seeder, is a disc (spinner) good enough or am I better spending the money on a pneumatic seeder?
3. Has anyone achieved good results using this method of overseeding?
I know there is a lot there, I would appreciate any response, thanks.

Water John

Similar boat to you. Have just bought and no yet taken delivery of, a Rakeman 3000 and APV Air Seeder combo. Wouldn't have bought it only I was able to get the Tams grant on it as an organic farmer.
I can't give you results but Reggie, of this forum, had a Rakeman and praised it.
This is a 3m machine with 8 pipes from the air seeder.

endainoz

I'm doing the exact same as yourself with overseeding a meadow. I recently got a 4m chain harrow and ran it over the meadow twice. I then broadcasted seeds with a wag tail spreader, rolled it and job done.

It's the first time I've done overseeding after harrowing. I had some success last year with broadcasting clover in the other meadow, hopefully this will work out too.

Seeds are in the ground a week today, will hopefully be able to report back with some good news! Seeds was a mixture of multi species, herb mix, and a separate mix of wildflowers.

The farming for nature forum has some decent info on it aswell.

Wv611

Would they b better than a chain harrow for poached ground

ruwithme

Wv611 wrote: »

Would they b better than a chain harrow for poached ground

Chain Harrow will do the job ok on poached ground,the above mentioned rakes would yes do a better job in my experience anyway.

But don't let that stop you pulling out the chain Harrow for the job.

Ivor172

Water John wrote: »

Similar boat to you. Have just bought and no yet taken delivery of, a Rakeman 3000 and APV Air Seeder combo. Wouldn't have bought it only I was able to get the Tams grant on it as an organic farmer.
I can't give you results but Reggie, of this forum, had a Rakeman and praised it.
This is a 3m machine with 8 pipes from the air seeder.

I see, sounds like a good rig, that’s the set up I’d like to get ideally! I’m glad somebody else is trying it too. Best of luck with the seeding! Thanks!

Ivor172

endainoz wrote: »

I'm doing the exact same as yourself with overseeding a meadow. I recently got a 4m chain harrow and ran it over the meadow twice. I then broadcasted seeds with a wag tail spreader, rolled it and job done.

It's the first time I've done overseeding after harrowing. I had some success last year with broadcasting clover in the other meadow, hopefully this will work out too.

Seeds are in the ground a week today, will hopefully be able to report back with some good news! Seeds was a mixture of multi species, herb mix, and a separate mix of wildflowers.

The farming for nature forum has some decent info on it aswell.

Good to hear you had some success with it, I want to add clover on my own farm too. Great that you could use a wagtail after the chain harrow, it might a more affordable option for me! I hope your recent seeding is successful. Thanks ðŸ‘ðŸ¼

Markcheese

endainoz wrote: »

Seeds are in the ground a week today, will hopefully be able to report back with some good news! Seeds was a mixture of multi species, herb mix, and a separate mix of wildflowers.

Do you mind me asking where you got the multi-species mix - and the wild flowers ? And was it a mix you got made up for your type of ground or just what the merchant had ? ( I'd heard some mixes were harder to get now ,after brexit )

endainoz

Markcheese wrote: »

Do you mind me asking where you got the multi-species mix - and the wild flowers ? And was it a mix you got made up for your type of ground or just what the merchant had ? ( I'd heard some mixes were harder to get now ,after brexit )

Yeah I had some multi species mix from fruit hill farm, I had to buy organic so it was more expensive but I'm sure there's plenty of conventional ones that would do the same for less money.

https://www.fruithillfarm.com/permanent-pasture-44-with-herbs.html

I think this was the one but they probably have changed the mix from when I got the seed late last year. I tried to find a mix that had seeds that didn't need to be deep in the soil to germinate, with the idea that they'ed be able to be broadcasted and rolled on.

This is all experimental of course, but hope this bit of rain will drive things on and I'll see something coming.

nhg

We have a Rakeman 3000 about 9 years now & had a small APV Seeder on it but found wind to be a big issue with the seeder, so sold the APV seeder & replaced with a Guttler seeder instead and also bought a Minos disc Harrow with crumbler & a Flemming land leveller.

Didn't really have as good a response from over seeding as would have liked so just going to do full reseeds of a section of ground each year. Used to overseed silage ground once crop was cut.

Reseeded about 20 acres last autum & very pleased with results.

Water John

nhg wrote: »

We have a Rakeman 3000 about 9 years now & had a small APV Seeder on it but found wind to be a big issue with the seeder, so sold the APV seeder & replaced with a Guttler seeder instead and also bought a Minos disc Harrow with crumbler & a Flemming land leveller.

Didn't really have as good a response from over seeding as would have liked so just going to do full reseeds of a section of ground each year. Used to overseed silage ground once crop was cut.

Reseeded about 20 acres last autum & very pleased with results.

That's the reason I opted for the air seeder. Over seeding wouldn't, as you say, be the norm a person would use. It's a remedy in specific cases. Other than a complete reseed some form of strip seeding would be an option. Ground out of commission for a shorter time.
If ploughing, do it shallow as possible. With organic one can't spray off, so leave the grass to break down after ploughing if possible. This certainly applies to cereals so I'm assuming applies to other seeds as well, about 15 days.

lakill Farm

Reggies one was a 4.5m Paletine. Serious well made

Water John wrote: »

Similar boat to you. Have just bought and no yet taken delivery of, a Rakeman 3000 and APV Air Seeder combo. Wouldn't have bought it only I was able to get the Tams grant on it as an organic farmer.
I can't give you results but Reggie, of this forum, had a Rakeman and praised it.
This is a 3m machine with 8 pipes from the air seeder.

Wv611

Is d rakeman 3000 good fr poached grd

CloughCasey1

Wv611 wrote: »

Is d rakeman 3000 good fr poached grd

Yes. Cuts up the ruts and levels them out.

Castlekeeper

Ivor172 wrote: »

I’m thinking of buying a grass harrow to clean up pasture and overseed, either a 3m or 4.5m palatine or similar and I want to post some questions:
1. I have an 80hp tractor, is the 4.5 too much?
2. I want to fit a seeder, is a disc (spinner) good enough or am I better spending the money on a pneumatic seeder?
3. Has anyone achieved good results using this method of overseeding?
I know there is a lot there, I would appreciate any response, thanks.

I'd use a contractor or two to do a few bits first and see what kind of results are achievable before I'd go spending big. Contractors in our area with guttler drills, erth seeders etc and I've seen a good few mixed results with overseeding.
As mentioned, a chain harro, manure spreader and roller might do just as good a job on a small bit of poached ground.

What about this approach:

1. Tyne harrow a field with your palatine or rakeman

2. Spread grass seed on tyne harrowed field on a calm day with no wind

3. Put out watery slurry on the ground after

Dozer1

would this machine cover both for levelling and scratching

https://www.donedeal.ie/harrows-for-sale/new-4m-hybrid-grass-harrows/27322242

was about to buy a harrow but local contractor said he'd give it a run of the guttler instead....still waiting

endainoz

Dozer1 wrote: »

would this machine cover both for levelling and scratching

https://www.donedeal.ie/harrows-for-sale/new-4m-hybrid-grass-harrows/27322242

was about to buy a harrow but local contractor said he'd give it a run of the guttler instead....still waiting

Looks a serious yoke alright.

Longford Leader

I think there was an advert in the journal last week for a rakeman+APV seeder spread over 36 months.

ruwithme

Dozer1 wrote: »

would this machine cover both for levelling and scratching

https://www.donedeal.ie/harrows-for-sale/new-4m-hybrid-grass-harrows/27322242

was about to buy a harrow but local contractor said he'd give it a run of the guttler instead....still waiting

I suppose that's why lads like to have their own,even if it's hard to justify the price sometimes. Do it when suits you & not them.

wrangler

Dozer1 wrote: »

would this machine cover both for levelling and scratching

https://www.donedeal.ie/harrows-for-sale/new-4m-hybrid-grass-harrows/27322242

was about to buy a harrow but local contractor said he'd give it a run of the guttler instead....still waiting

We've a tine one here and it's not near severe enough, I couldn't see it leveling much

wrangler

wrangler wrote: »

We've a tine one here and it's not near severe enough, I couldn't see it leveling much

Isnt the goal of a tyne harrow to root out embedded dung, dead grass and weeds and promote growth

endainoz

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Isnt the goal of a tyne harrow to root out embedded dung, dead grass and weeds and promote growth

Yeah, a chain harrow suit better for light leveling, most let you run the chain part upside down so it can flatten ground.

Looking to over sow some grass seed on a silage field to freshen it up a bit.

What application rate per acre should I go for?

The field isnt bad just looking to freshen it up.

Reggie.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Looking to over sow some grass seed on a silage field to freshen it up a bit.

What application rate per acre should I go for?

The field isnt bad just looking to freshen it up.

Roughly 8kg to the acre

endainoz

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Looking to over sow some grass seed on a silage field to freshen it up a bit.

What application rate per acre should I go for?

The field isnt bad just looking to freshen it up.

Sorry I'm not sure to be honest, I was very random with my seed application, had 5kg of wildflowers and about 30kg of a meadow and herb mix. Meadow size is 3 Ha, so I probably spread very little seed on it.

Teagasc have a great piece about overseeding clover alright but there isn't too much info on overseeding other species from what I've seen. Probably due to the hit and miss success of it. My seeds are on the ground 10 days and I topped the older grasses and rushes today. All going well the meadow won't be touched again untill the end of July.

Water John

A lot of seeds would be similar size to clover. Not burying them too deep and a firm bed with soil contact would be the main issues.
As for freshening up a meadow, I'd be inclined to do it after mowing, give the seeds a better chance and warmer weather.

endainoz

Water John wrote: »

A lot of seeds would be similar size to clover. Not burying them too deep and a firm bed with soil contact would be the main issues.
As for freshening up a meadow, I'd be inclined to do it after mowing, give the seeds a better chance and warmer weather.

I'd be inclined to agree re the meadow but the place I've seeded is always slow to get going due to lack of minerals most likely. I'm hoping the herbs in particular will unlock some of the minerals and the clover will drive it on. That's the plan anyway, I'm no expert but I'm optimistic.

Dozer1

Well Guttler is working away here today,
impressions,
1) ground is rock hard but levelled a bit
2) 2 runs seems to be doing a good job
3) need rain

Markcheese

Dozer1 wrote: »

Well Guttler is working away here today,
impressions,
1) ground is rock hard but levelled a bit
2) 2 runs seems to be doing a good job
3) need rain

Do you normally roll after the guttler ??
Don't worry the rain will come ...

Hello,

Want to test out over seeding 5 acres.

This ground is used for grazing mainly but also a single cut of silage or hay (weather permitting).

What's the best seed to go for here and where to buy?

Water John

Deleted User wrote: »

Hello,

Want to test out over seeding 5 acres.

This ground is used for grazing mainly but also a single cut of silage or hay (weather permitting).

What's the best seed to go for here and where to buy?

Main Q is how much fertiliser you might put out as the type of grass could be linked to that. Some of the tetraploids are very N hungry. Designed that way.

Water John

Water John wrote: »

Main Q is how much fertiliser you might put out as the type of grass could be linked to that. Some of the tetraploids are very N hungry. Designed that way.

I was thinking of putting 2 bags of can on it after and maybe slurry and leaving it closed for a good while and then do a cut of silage or hay.

Going to grass harrow it this weekend to clean out weeds and dead grass and was thinking of going in with seed after before heavy rain next week.

Water John

Might need a grazing first before closing, get the grass to tiller.
Cotswolds have a Wallchart, that shows the height of the plant, depth and scope of the roots and the seed sowing depth:
https://www.cotswoldseeds.com/downloads/wallchart_smallweb1.pdf

It shows the poor root structure of perennial ryegrass. I'd have some Timothy and Fescue in the mix if not farming intensively.

endainoz

Water John wrote: »

Might need a grazing first before closing, get the grass to tiller.
Cotswolds have a Wallchart, that shows the height of the plant, depth and scope of the roots and the seed sowing depth:
https://www.cotswoldseeds.com/downloads/wallchart_smallweb1.pdf

It shows the poor root structure of perennial ryegrass. I'd have some Timothy and Fescue in the mix if not farming intensively.

That's very handy, should be printed out on an big A2 sheet and put up in every school.

Dinzee Conlee

Water John wrote: »

Might need a grazing first before closing, get the grass to tiller.
Cotswolds have a Wallchart, that shows the height of the plant, depth and scope of the roots and the seed sowing depth:
https://www.cotswoldseeds.com/downloads/wallchart_smallweb1.pdf

It shows the poor root structure of perennial ryegrass. I'd have some Timothy and Fescue in the mix if not farming intensively.

I’m always impressed by how deep Sanfoin goes - but someone here said it’s more suited to dry chalky soil?
Anyone ever try it?

Water John

Don't think it'll grow here TMK. Cocksfoot goes down a lot too but the leaves go coarse and clumpy over time.
Don't know enough about the non grasses, chicory, yarrow and sheeps parsley go really deep.

Water John

Water John wrote: »

Might need a grazing first before closing, get the grass to tiller.
Cotswolds have a Wallchart, that shows the height of the plant, depth and scope of the roots and the seed sowing depth:
https://www.cotswoldseeds.com/downloads/wallchart_smallweb1.pdf

It shows the poor root structure of perennial ryegrass. I'd have some Timothy and Fescue in the mix if not farming intensively.

Thanks for this detail.

I have it grazed down nicely already.

Water John

Deleted User wrote: »

Thanks for this detail.

I have it grazed down nicely already.

I mean to graze the new sward also before taking a cut off it.

GrasstoMilk

Water John wrote: »

I mean to graze the new sward also before taking a cut off it.

Rejuvenated alot of silage ground here with out grazing it- works fine
Of course grazing it would be the ideal, but the ideal scenario isn't always possible

crackcrack30

How did the overseeding work out this year? Any learning points? I'm thinking of trying a few acres next year ...close it up for a silage cut in late spring, Harrow seed and roll...

Field is 100% paddock/grazing field in memory but never forced and has clover... cant remember last reseed.

endainoz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117911934#Comment_117911934

I think it went fairly well overall. The meadows got a great burst of growth vwith that dry spell we have so they have a decent cover of clover in them now. I'd still like to do more experimenting with of herbs that would be beneficial to the soil in the long run. Deep soil analysis is the next job I have to get done to see what the trace elements are like and work from there.

White Clover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117920023#Comment_117920023

Can you say who does that deep soil analysis? It's something I would be interested in making a start on......need to get away from the bag..

endainoz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117920033#Comment_117920033

I'm not actually sure which crowd I'll use for it but these guys seem to do a decent analysis on trace elements.

https://iaslabs.ie/agriculture-soil-testing/soil-testing/

From what I gather these trace elements tests don't come cheap but in fairness the information you could get from them would be invaluable.

endainoz

https://www.teagasc.ie/news--events/national-events/events/teagascorganicwebinar1.php

This is on tomorrow, just in case anyone missed it on the multi species sward thread. Should have some great information.

Dozer1

Happy with how the guttler worked out here didn't level as well as I'd like but gave a real freshen up to the old pasture