The Skripal Salisbury Spooks

ShatterAlan

They are now suspected of blowing up a Czech installation 4 years before they nipped into England undetected and got wasted on dope and then smeared Novichok onto a door handle.


:pac::pac::pac::pac:

Ted_YNWA

Have you any kind of news source of this.

Blowing something up doesnt go un-noticed.

SantaClaw

Ted_YNWA wrote: »

Have you any kind of news source of this.
.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56790053

Dohnjoe

ShatterAlan wrote: »

They are now suspected of blowing up a Czech installation 4 years before they nipped into England undetected and got wasted on dope and then smeared Novichok onto a door handle.


:pac::pac::pac::pac:

They are key suspects in the Skripal poisoning with a lot of evidence pointing to them. And now the Czechs have linked them to blast in the Czech Republic in 2014.

The assassination attempt on Skripal is an actual credible conspiracy theory. A state attempting to take out an ex-spy for revealing info and secrets to another country (and leaving a calling card)

ShatterAlan

Dohnjoe wrote: »

They are key suspects in the Skripal poisoning with a lot of evidence pointing to them. And now the Czechs have linked them to blast in the Czech Republic in 2014.

The assassination attempt on Skripal is an actual credible conspiracy theory. A state attempting to take out an ex-spy for revealing info and secrets to another country (and leaving a calling card)

:pac::pac:





Poor Navalny is now losing weight too and his treatment is "appalling". He must be saved.


I thought that if you exposed governmental malfeasance then you were fair game to be banged up and tortured.

ShatterAlan

Dohnjoe wrote: »

They are key suspects in the Skripal poisoning with a lot of evidence pointing to them. And now the Czechs have linked them to blast in the Czech Republic in 2014.

The assassination attempt on Skripal is an actual credible conspiracy theory. A state attempting to take out an ex-spy for revealing info and secrets to another country (and leaving a calling card)

Leaving a calling card :pac:

Fighting Tao

ShatterAlan wrote: »

Leaving a calling card :pac:

It’s an old method of letting people know that it was you without coming out and saying it. Many murderers did it in the past. Maybe you’ll understand it from Home Alone where the burglars left the taps running in every house they broke into.

Fighting Tao

ShatterAlan wrote: »

I thought that if you exposed governmental malfeasance then you were fair game to be banged up and tortured.

Torture is not acceptable to most people these days. It says a lot about someone who thinks it’s ok!

Dohnjoe

ShatterAlan wrote: »

Leaving a calling card :pac:

Yup, using Polonium 210 or Novichok leaves no one with any doubts - it also sends a clear message

Dohnjoe

ShatterAlan wrote: »

:pac::pac:





Poor Navalny is now losing weight too and his treatment is "appalling". He must be saved.


I thought that if you exposed governmental malfeasance then you were fair game to be banged up and tortured.

Navalny is an opposition politician in Russia, it's a highly dangerous job

ShatterAlan

Ted_YNWA wrote: »

Have you any kind of news source of this.

Blowing something up doesnt go un-noticed.

You're so right Ted.


The Guildford Four and the Birmingham Six will back you up on that one.

ShatterAlan

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Navalny is an opposition politician in Russia, it's a highly dangerous job

But don't you think that if you are classified as an enemy of the state then you should be tortured and possibly killed?

Fighting Tao

ShatterAlan wrote: »

But don't you think that if you are classified as an enemy of the state then you should be tortured and possibly killed?

No. Normal people don’t think like that.

ShatterAlan

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Yup, using Polonium 210 or Novichok leaves no one with any doubts - it also sends a clear message

And what message is that, exactly?


I've asked you some questions.


The first:


(a) if somebody threatens the status quo or the State, is it wrong for them to be detained, and tortured and possibly killed?


(a, ii)


If it is not wrong then who decides?


(b) If it is acceptable to torture and kill a person who threatens the government of country A then does country B have a moral obligation to express disapproval and furthermore take retaliatory action even if the victim is not a citizen of country B?




So plase tell me...it is always wrong to persecute someone who speaks out against a government, am I correct?

In conclusion, ought Russia have demanded that Skripal be returned to Moscow to face a trial for whatever crimes he may have committed?

Dohnjoe

ShatterAlan wrote: »

And what message is that, exactly?

That they were assassinated by the GRU.

(a) if somebody threatens the status quo or the State, is it wrong for them to be detained, and tortured and possibly killed?

Need to provide the context. Navalny was targeted purely because he was an opposition politician.

In conclusion, ought Russia have demanded that Skripal be returned to Moscow to face a trial for whatever crimes he may have committed?

Possibly, but a fair trial, which he wouldn't have received.

But don't you think that if you are classified as an enemy of the state then you should be tortured and possibly killed?

100% this is a pretext to a rant about Guantanamo. No one should be tortured.

ShatterAlan

Dohnjoe wrote: »

They are key suspects in the Skripal poisoning with a lot of evidence pointing to them. And now the Czechs have linked them to blast in the Czech Republic in 2014.

The assassination attempt on Skripal is an actual credible conspiracy theory. A state attempting to take out an ex-spy for revealing info and secrets to another country (and leaving a calling card)

You're always asking for proof, evidence yet look at the stories you hang your faith on. And FAITH being the operative word.


It's always a case of "linked to" or "strong evidence" or as Theresa May came out and said "most likely", yet the one thing that is always missing is PROOF.


So you see, all this talk is just that..talk but it works, because idiots, when they hear the words "overwhelming suspicion" or "highly possible" or "almost undeniable" then they just take that as a tacit underpinning of fact.


It's funny but in a sense it's also a little bit sad.


I could say anything about you and use these nonsensical terms and all it would be would be propaganda but nothing that I have said would give you grounds to challenge my assertions because I haven't made any.


I could come out and say "Experts now believe with near 99% certainty that Dohjnoe is half man, half mermaid and our experts believe that he almost certainly killed Jesus, but there are detractors who vehemently deny Dohnjoe's involvement in the sinking of the Titanic despite strong evidence to the contrary"


Nothing therein is a lie. Nothing. It's allusion and ILLUSION.


So it is no more believable than 2 Russians are thought to have poisoned a retired spook a few years after they are "suspected" of blowing up a Czech warehouse.


But I understand. You want, dearly to believe this crap and will do anything to try and make it make sense. Except a child wouldn't fall for this charade. But I suppose if an adult can refuse to believe that he was conned into looking at an invisible cloak whereas a child wasn't then I understand your reluctance to admit your gullibility.

Dohnjoe

ShatterAlan wrote: »

You're always asking for proof, evidence yet look at the stories you hang your faith on. And FAITH being the operative word.


It's always a case of "linked to" or "strong evidence" or as Theresa May came out and said "most likely", yet the one thing that is always missing is PROOF.


So you see, all this talk is just that..talk but it works, because idiots, when they hear the words "overwhelming suspicion" or "highly possible" or "almost undeniable" then they just take that as a tacit underpinning of fact.


It's funny but in a sense it's also a little bit sad.


I could say anything about you and use these nonsensical terms and all it would be would be propaganda but nothing that I have said would give you grounds to challenge my assertions because I haven't made any.


I could come out and say "Experts now believe with near 99% certainty that Dohjnoe is half man, half mermaid and our experts believe that he almost certainly killed Jesus, but there are detractors who vehemently deny Dohnjoe's involvement in the sinking of the Titanic despite strong evidence to the contrary"


Nothing therein is a lie. Nothing. It's allusion and ILLUSION.


So it is no more believable than 2 Russians are thought to have poisoned a retired spook a few years after they are "suspected" of blowing up a Czech warehouse.


But I understand. You want, dearly to believe this crap and will do anything to try and make it make sense. Except a child wouldn't fall for this charade. But I suppose if an adult can refuse to believe that he was conned into looking at an invisible cloak whereas a child wasn't then I understand your reluctance to admit your gullibility.

Incomprehensible babble.

Back to the subject, I believe the Kremlin conspired to poison Skripal with Novichok, as in a real conspiracy theory. If you have any (coherent) questions on it, feel free to ask.

ShatterAlan

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Incomprehensible babble.

Back to the subject, I believe the Kremlin conspired to poison Skripal with Novichok, as in a real conspiracy theory. If you have any (coherent) questions on it, feel free to ask.

More incoherent babble too. You see two can play at that game.



You are now attempting to differentiate between "real" conspiracy theories as opposed to "unreal" conspiracy theories? In many posts you lambaste anyone as a conspiracy theorist yet you are now talking of "real" conspiracy theories?. Tripping over yourself, just a little, wouldn't you say?



And I believe that the Kremlin didn't conspire. You believe they did. I believe that evidence should be brought to light whereas you are of the opinion that it should be destroyed and then let doubt reign.



How deadly is this mythical Novichok? How potent is it supposed to be?

Dohnjoe

ShatterAlan wrote: »

And I believe that the Kremlin didn't conspire.

Okay, what happened to Sergei and Yulia then? and Dawn Sturgess?

I strongly suspect you know next to nothing about the incident but have made your mind up to be contrarian about it due to some axe you have to grind here, but hey I'll give you the benefit of the doubt for the 10th time.

robinph

ShatterAlan wrote: »

I could come out and say "Experts now believe with near 99% certainty that Dohjnoe is half man, half mermaid and our experts believe that he almost certainly killed Jesus, but there are detractors who vehemently deny Dohnjoe's involvement in the sinking of the Titanic despite strong evidence to the contrary"


Nothing therein is a lie. Nothing. It's allusion and ILLUSION.

You'd need to start by providing details from your mermaid/ man experts and how they came to their conclusions, details on how the death of Jesus happened and of them being in the vicinity at the time, details in the age of them seeing as the Jesus character is thought to have lived 2000 odd years ago and details on their ability to control icebergs and the strong evidence around the ice berg having been behaving oddly at the time.

Saying you've got experts and strong evidence isn't the same as either actually existing.

patnor1011

ShatterAlan wrote: »

You're always asking for proof, evidence yet look at the stories you hang your faith on. And FAITH being the operative word.


It's always a case of "linked to" or "strong evidence" or as Theresa May came out and said "most likely", yet the one thing that is always missing is PROOF.


So you see, all this talk is just that..talk but it works, because idiots, when they hear the words "overwhelming suspicion" or "highly possible" or "almost undeniable" then they just take that as a tacit underpinning of fact.


It's funny but in a sense it's also a little bit sad.


I could say anything about you and use these nonsensical terms and all it would be would be propaganda but nothing that I have said would give you grounds to challenge my assertions because I haven't made any.


I could come out and say "Experts now believe with near 99% certainty that Dohjnoe is half man, half mermaid and our experts believe that he almost certainly killed Jesus, but there are detractors who vehemently deny Dohnjoe's involvement in the sinking of the Titanic despite strong evidence to the contrary"


Nothing therein is a lie. Nothing. It's allusion and ILLUSION.


So it is no more believable than 2 Russians are thought to have poisoned a retired spook a few years after they are "suspected" of blowing up a Czech warehouse.


But I understand. You want, dearly to believe this crap and will do anything to try and make it make sense. Except a child wouldn't fall for this charade. But I suppose if an adult can refuse to believe that he was conned into looking at an invisible cloak whereas a child wasn't then I understand your reluctance to admit your gullibility.

There is no debate with these lads. One will say everything is incoherent babble other one will try to tell you you said something what he think you said and try to bait you with whatever silly ideas come from his mind. Like he literally say he think you meant this and then he start claiming you did say it... And when you point that you never said what actually came from his mind he usually ends up with "Why do you not answer my question?" followed with more nonsense.

Dohnjoe

patnor1011 wrote: »

There is no debate with these lads. One will say everything is incoherent babble other one will try to tell you you said something what he think you said and try to bait you with whatever silly ideas come from his mind. Like he literally say he think you meant this and then he start claiming you did say it... And when you point that you never said what actually came from his mind he usually ends up with "Why do you not answer my question?" followed with more nonsense.

There's no proper debate with irrational views.

You'll see the same trend repeat in almost every thread, whether it's about chemtrails, 911, "the space program is fake", Covid conspiracies, whatever

Back to the subject, no one has offered any plausible alternative explanation. Ironically, this is a conspiracy I support.

robinph

When all the evidence points towards a state involved in a conspiracy to murder the conspiracy theorists end up being the ones rejecting the conspiracy!?!?

There is all the spy's with top secret chemicals, crazy alibis about cathedral spires and tourist trips, and anything else you'd normally see linked to other conspiracy theories, but this time with actual evidence, and yet they don't want to know so try to invent something else.

Fighting Tao

It seems like a lot of conspiracy are terrified of communism being implemented via a great reset, yet they are pro-Russia who’s leader is rolling back on freedoms. Very odd altogether.

I’d be on board with this conspiracy too. The evidence is pointing at Russia.

ShatterAlan

Fighting Tao wrote: »

Torture is not acceptable to most people these days. It says a lot about someone who thinks it’s ok!

So how do you feel about Bradley Manning being tortured? Exposed war crimes and was then subjected to incarceration and torture.


If it's bad for a Russian to be tortured for resisting or speaking out, is it also bad for an American to do the same?


Assange has committed no crimes but is being tortured. Snowden had to flee to Russia to escape torture. They even had fighterjets force down a plane over France to try and get him and probably stick him in a dungeon somewhere until he died.


So my question is this......if you speak out against the STATE should you or should you not be captured, tortured and killed?

ShatterAlan

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Okay, what happened to Sergei and Yulia then? and Dawn Sturgess?

I strongly suspect you know next to nothing about the incident but have made your mind up to be contrarian about it due to some axe you have to grind here, but hey I'll give you the benefit of the doubt for the 10th time.

And I strongly suspect you know even less than I do about the incident.


Our two Russian ethereal bogey-men are now once again gone. Not a shred of evidence about their involvement in anything. Nothing.



Kind of begs the question. Do you really believe this fairytale or do you just want to try and sell it.? Because it gets more laughable by the day.

ShatterAlan

robinph wrote: »

You'd need to start by providing details from your mermaid/ man experts and how they came to their conclusions, details on how the death of Jesus happened and of them being in the vicinity at the time, details in the age of them seeing as the Jesus character is thought to have lived 2000 odd years ago and details on their ability to control icebergs and the strong evidence around the ice berg having been behaving oddly at the time.

Saying you've got experts and strong evidence isn't the same as either actually existing.

I didn't make any of your aforementioned claims. I simply stated that I could have.

ShatterAlan

ShatterAlan wrote: »

And I strongly suspect you know even less than I do about the incident.


Our two Russian ethereal bogey-men are now once again gone. Not a shred of evidence about their involvement in anything. Nothing.



Kind of begs the question. Do you really believe this fairytale or do you just want to try and sell it.? Because it gets more laughable by the day.

And yet again, a direct question is dodged because you can't answer it.

ShatterAlan

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Okay, what happened to Sergei and Yulia then? and Dawn Sturgess?

I strongly suspect you know next to nothing about the incident but have made your mind up to be contrarian about it due to some axe you have to grind here, but hey I'll give you the benefit of the doubt for the 10th time.

You're trying to deflect.


Or paint me into a corner. And you'll trot out the "incredulity" argument again. You'll say that just because "I DON'T BELIEVE IT" doesn't mean it didn't happen.


Well, just because YOU believe it doesn't mean it DID happen. A laughable fairytale about two Russians who smoked a load of weed and left the most deadly (apparently) remnants in their hotel room, then went to Salisbury and smeared this crap on a door handle. It was then determined to be the most highly proofed poison EVER yet it was still exposed to bacteria and the elements. So toxic that they had to demolish the house but all other neighbours' houses were grand. The two victims of this assassination were found by the chief medical officer of the British Army, The victims have NEVER been spoken to.....Oh and the two clumsy perpetrators who could have just put a bullet in Skripla's head if that was the endgame, are now also part and parcel of an explosion in Tschecia.


Stay real, dude.:pac:

robinph

ShatterAlan wrote: »

I didn't make any of your aforementioned claims. I simply stated that I could have.

In case you'd forgotten, although it was quoted in the post you were responding to so not sure how you missed it... You proposed the following...

ShatterAlan wrote: »

I could come out and say "Experts now believe with near 99% certainty that Dohjnoe is half man, half mermaid and our experts believe that he almost certainly killed Jesus, but there are detractors who vehemently deny Dohnjoe's involvement in the sinking of the Titanic despite strong evidence to the contrary"

I just set out what evidence you'd need to provide in the event of you mermaid claims actually being made. Never said anything about if you'd actually made those claims, just giving you some pointers in how you'd need to support your potential theories.

Dohnjoe

ShatterAlan wrote: »

Our two Russian ethereal bogey-men are now once again gone. Not a shred of evidence about their involvement in anything. Nothing.

Kind of begs the question. Do you really believe this fairytale or do you just want to try and sell it.? Because it gets more laughable by the day.

The two suspects filmed on CCTV in Salisbury that day, who Putin claimed were just "civilians", turned out to be GRU agents, can you explain what happened there?

If you claim it's a "fairytale", then what happened to Sergei, Yulia, the policeman and Dawn Sturgess?

Big Ears

I would think if anybody else started this thread it wouldn't even be in the conspiracy theory forum.

While it was initially a conspiracy to commit this act, the "interview" the two Russians gave once they got back home was so unbelievable (and probably intentionally so) it was basically admitting guilt.

I would say you'd be hard pressed finding people in the general population who didn't believe they did it, but of course that's the wonder of internet forums.

Dohnjoe

Big Ears wrote: »

I would think if anybody else started this thread it wouldn't even be in the conspiracy theory forum.

While it was initially a conspiracy to commit this act, the "interview" the two Russians gave once they got back home was so unbelievable (and probably intentionally so) it was basically admitting guilt.

I would say you'd be hard pressed finding people in the general population who didn't believe they did it, but of course that's the wonder of internet forums.

On the original threads for this, even the most hardcore conspiracy theorist on boards admitted it was obvious the GRU pulled it off

Dohnjoe

ShatterAlan wrote: »

You're trying to deflect.


Or paint me into a corner. And you'll trot out the "incredulity" argument again. You'll say that just because "I DON'T BELIEVE IT" doesn't mean it didn't happen.


Well, just because YOU believe it doesn't mean it DID happen. A laughable fairytale about two Russians who smoked a load of weed and left the most deadly (apparently) remnants in their hotel room, then went to Salisbury and smeared this crap on a door handle. It was then determined to be the most highly proofed poison EVER yet it was still exposed to bacteria and the elements. So toxic that they had to demolish the house but all other neighbours' houses were grand. The two victims of this assassination were found by the chief medical officer of the British Army, The victims have NEVER been spoken to.....Oh and the two clumsy perpetrators who could have just put a bullet in Skripla's head if that was the endgame, are now also part and parcel of an explosion in Tschecia.


Stay real, dude.:pac:

Oh christ I almost missed this. Again, you bring up incredulity, then you plunge into your versions of various facts surrounding the case acting incredulous at each one. Yes, apparently the two men did smoke weed, and according to a witness had a prostitute over the night before, and yes they did find traces of Novichok at that hotel, that doesn't fit into your movie/tv view of Russian agents? did something else happen?

I have no idea what "highly proofed poison" is, Novichok is a nerve agent, if someone sprays it on an object, e.g. a door handle, and you touch it, you aren't going to have a good time..

As far as I'm aware they didn't demolish the Skripal house, it was bought by the council last I heard, Dawn Sturgess's flat was demolished, surprisingly no one wants to live at a high profile property that was part of a nerve agent attack..

Yes, an army nursing colonel was one of the first people to help the Skripals, that didn't happen or?

The victims were repeatedly spoken to by doctors, nurses at the local hospital, police, investigators, and god knows who from UK internal security, Yulia did give an interview, and for obvious reasons they are both in hiding, but according to you, they weren't poisoned?

The "clumsy perpetrators" went to Salisbury, poisoned their target with a highly identifiable nerve agent and got out. That was their job. If they are poisoning an ex-spy with something so obvious as Novichok, they are hardly going to make an effort to cover their tracks. After claiming they were "nutritionalists" on national television, their photos were discovered in a military academy, they weren't exactly trying very hard. Likewise, when Litvinenko was poisoned with Polonium 210, it's not like the perpetrators really cared about covering their tracks either, they left evidence everywhere. And earlier this year, after Navalny was poisoned by Novichok, a fake call to the FSB revealed the plot. The whole point of these attacks was to leave the victims and rest of the world under no illusions who the perpetrators are.

Your version of events is?

mcmoustache

ShatterAlan wrote: »

You're trying to deflect.


Or paint me into a corner. And you'll trot out the "incredulity" argument again. You'll say that just because "I DON'T BELIEVE IT" doesn't mean it didn't happen.


Well, just because YOU believe it doesn't mean it DID happen. A laughable fairytale about two Russians who smoked a load of weed and left the most deadly (apparently) remnants in their hotel room, then went to Salisbury and smeared this crap on a door handle. It was then determined to be the most highly proofed poison EVER yet it was still exposed to bacteria and the elements. So toxic that they had to demolish the house but all other neighbours' houses were grand. The two victims of this assassination were found by the chief medical officer of the British Army, The victims have NEVER been spoken to.....Oh and the two clumsy perpetrators who could have just put a bullet in Skripla's head if that was the endgame, are now also part and parcel of an explosion in Tschecia.


Stay real, dude.:pac:

Did you get this stuff from Craig Murray?

The actions of the two KGB officers and their identity is well documented. They were caught on camera and their real identities were scraped from publicly available pictures online. If you think they were there to see the cathedral's spire (did you know it's 123 metres tall?), I'm not sure what to tell you.

ShatterAlan

robinph wrote: »

In case you'd forgotten, although it was quoted in the post you were responding to so not sure how you missed it... You proposed the following...



I just set out what evidence you'd need to provide in the event of you mermaid claims actually being made. Never said anything about if you'd actually made those claims, just giving you some pointers in how you'd need to support your potential theories.

You just stated that ALL the evidence points towards state involvement.


If you would care to provide a shred of this evidence I would be most grateful.


Again, you said ALL evidence. Could you provide just SOME of that "ALL", please?

ShatterAlan

robinph wrote: »

You'd need to start by providing details from your mermaid/ man experts and how they came to their conclusions, details on how the death of Jesus happened and of them being in the vicinity at the time, details in the age of them seeing as the Jesus character is thought to have lived 2000 odd years ago and details on their ability to control icebergs and the strong evidence around the ice berg having been behaving oddly at the time.

Saying you've got experts and strong evidence isn't the same as either actually existing.

Forgive me for being curt, but is this a rant fuelled by substances?

ShatterAlan

Fighting Tao wrote: »

It seems like a lot of conspiracy are terrified of communism being implemented via a great reset, yet they are pro-Russia who’s leader is rolling back on freedoms. Very odd altogether.

I’d be on board with this conspiracy too. The evidence is pointing at Russia.

It doesn't seem like that to me in the slightest. If it's your outlook then good luck to you.


And once again "the evidence is pointing at Russia".


I don't see any evidence pointing anywhere. So could you table this evidence/proof?



I'd be happy to review it and your findings.

ShatterAlan

mcmoustache wrote: »

Did you get this stuff from Craig Murray?

The actions of the two KGB officers and their identity is well documented. They were caught on camera and their real identities were scraped from publicly available pictures online. If you think they were there to see the cathedral's spire (did you know it's 123 metres tall?), I'm not sure what to tell you.

And that's evidence, is it?


Or is it just something that you want to believe?


I've heard (even from a mod) that ALL evidence points to Russian state involvement. Everyone on here seems to be an expert in how to "off" somebody, Polonium being the most efficient method, apparently.


Not a word from the Skripals, not a word from the British Army medic who allegedly found them. Not a word from the hotel staff who cleaned their room yet traces of this Novichovk was found there. How deadly is/was this toxin? A ridiculous story about it being put in Yulia's bag on a plane, then it was smeared on a door-handle but because it was so dreadfully toxic that the house had to be bulldozed but next door was grand, Another retarded story about it being on a cigarette butt.


Then our two MEN FROM U.N.C.L.E <Joe Stalin> are responsible for a Czech bombing years prior. :pac:




Who's the believer in flat Earth here?

robinph

ShatterAlan wrote: »

Forgive me for being curt, but is this a rant fuelled by substances?

Do you have yourself on ignore?

You made the mermaid conspiracy theory suggestions. I gave you the outline of what kind of evidence you'd need to provide in the event of you putting forward the mermaid situation. You then seem to be trying to make out that you didn't invent the crazy idea.

Try going back and re reading your own posts.



Also, you keep mentioning in various posts about mods responding to you which I think might be referring to me. Just an FYI on how forums work, I'm not a mod here. I'm just a user of this forum, although I hesitate to say "like yourself".

Dohnjoe

ShatterAlan wrote: »

You just stated that ALL the evidence points towards state involvement.


If you would care to provide a shred of this evidence I would be most grateful.


Again, you said ALL evidence. Could you provide just SOME of that "ALL", please?

Evidence has already been provided in this thread, you haven't addressed it.

You haven't provided an alternative.

You haven't addressed my questions.

ShatterAlan

robinph wrote: »

Do you have yourself on ignore?

You made the mermaid conspiracy theory suggestions. I gave you the outline of what kind of evidence you'd need to provide in the event of you putting forward the mermaid situation. You then seem to be trying to make out that you didn't invent the crazy idea.

Try going back and re reading your own posts.



Also, you keep mentioning in various posts about mods responding to you which I think might be referring to me. Just an FYI on how forums work, I'm not a mod here. I'm just a user of this forum, although I hesitate to say "like yourself".

You have completely missed the point. Completely.


My talk of mermaids and unicorns and people rising from the dead are predicated on hearsay and rumour. That's why I brought said analogies up in the first place.


The reason for this, and I believe it's not difficult to digest, is that it cast a doubt on rumour and hearsay.


The RUMOUR (sans evidence) is that two guys travelled to England and poisoned a man and his daughter. It has been tabled that ALL evidence points to this being the case and with Russian governmental involvement.


Nothing, but nothing, proves this. Nothing other than talk.


The reason I brought up mermaids and unicorns is for JUST that fact. There is talk of their existence and yet that's all it is...talk. Nothing of proof or substance.


So if my analogies, metaphors, paradoxes and contradictions are too much to absorb, then fine. I don't wish to discuss things that I have never said were factual. Only to doubt things that are classed as factual because some people said they were.

ShatterAlan

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Evidence has already been provided in this thread, you haven't addressed it.

You haven't provided an alternative.

You haven't addressed my questions.

What evidence?


I don't have to provide an alternative. We've been down this path before and it's a cul-de-sac that you are fabricating.


A poster said that ALL evidence points to Russian state involvement. You, or anyone else ought to be able to provide any of that evidence. Yet you can't.


You can't provide ANY of this evidence so your go-to is to demand that I provide an alternative explanation.



We can go back to Santa Claus if that helps. I don't believe that a fat man in a red costume can fly across the sky and squeeze down a chimney and leave gifts by the hearth. Your comeback is that "The gifts are there! Explain otherwise. Else you are just arguing from incredulity. You don't believe that reindeer can fly hence that's a good enough reason for stating that it didn't happen"


Do you see the game you're trying to play?



Your argument from incredulity trick carries no water whatsoever so you should probably try something a bit more convincing.

Dohnjoe

ShatterAlan wrote: »

What evidence?

You can start with my points in this post
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=116987725&postcount=34

I don't have to provide an alternative.

You are denying something happened and you are too lazy to give an alternative.

Your argument so far is "The Russians didn't do it because I can't believe it, but I can't explain otherwise".

Dohnjoe

ShatterAlan wrote: »

We can go back to Santa Claus if that helps. I don't believe that a fat man in a red costume can fly across the sky and squeeze down a chimney and leave gifts by the hearth. Your comeback is that "The gifts are there! Explain otherwise. Else you are just arguing from incredulity. You don't believe that reindeer can fly hence that's a good enough reason for stating that it didn't happen"

This is wrong and it demonstrates you don't understand the concept at all.

Scoffing at evidence is not a valid argument against it. Acting incredulous about some event in history doesn't mean it didn't happen. Doing this repeatedly, and then refusing to provide any counter-explanation demonstrates that you are stuck using the same bad logic over and over

mcmoustache

Dohnjoe wrote: »

You can start with my points in this post
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=116987725&postcount=34



You are denying something happened and you are too lazy to give an alternative.

Your argument so far is "The Russians didn't do it because I can't believe it, but I can't explain otherwise".

It's tricky to come up with an alternative when the two Russians pretending to be fitness instructors on Russia Today admitted to being in Salisbury and were soon identified as GRU from open source data.

ShatterAlan

mcmoustache wrote: »

It's tricky to come up with an alternative when the two Russians pretending to be fitness instructors on Russia Today admitted to being in Salisbury and were soon identified as GRU from open source data.

Why is it tricky?

Let's just say they were GRU or OGPU or KGB or whatever was said.

It was said that the woman in Iran serving time for spying was a foreign asset. Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe.

It's been said that Assange raped a pair of women, despite the two vehemently denying it.

It's been said that Chelsea Manning has put lives in danger by exposing war crimes and was, as a result subjected to incarceration and torture.

It's been said that Venezuelans have to eat flamingoes in order to stave of starvation and that the rightful heir to the throne is none other than Juan Guaido, a complete and corrupt puppet educated in the methods of imperial conquest in the United States.

So, I suppose my question is this. These two Salisbury spooks are guilty of the most pathetic attempt to assassinate someone of ZERO significance because it is maintained they were in the GRU and because the Russian bogeyman is bad OR all states pull scummy little stunts like this?

Are you familiar with the term "information warfare"? It's very similar to religion in that it scares people and makes them believe complete untruths.

But then again I am probably going to be accused of engaging in "whataboutery".

Dohnjoe

ShatterAlan wrote: »

Why is it tricky?

Let's just say they were GRU or OGPU or KGB or whatever was said.

Twin investigations uncovered their identities

https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-europe/2018/09/26/skripal-suspect-boshirov-identified-gru-colonel-anatoliy-chepiga/

https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-europe/2018/10/09/full-report-skripal-poisoning-suspect-dr-alexander-mishkin-hero-russia/

These two Salisbury spooks are guilty of the most pathetic attempt to assassinate someone of ZERO significance because it is maintained they were in the GRU and because the Russian bogeyman is bad OR all states pull scummy little stunts like this?

Because they were both in Salisbury the same day the poisonings happened, they travelled in on false identities, the victims were poisoned by Novichok: a nerve agent developed by Russia, they were caught on CCTV and their route took them close to the Skripal house, they immediately left the country after the poisonings and the hotel where they stayed was found to contain traces of Novichok (which was confirmed to have been used)

Sergei Skripal wasn't of "zero" significance, he was an ex-Russian military intelligence officer who was continuing to pass information to the UK and West, and as we've seen from Litvinenko's assassination, Putin is a) not fond of that and b) not afraid to attempt assassinations on foreign soil with exotic methods that leave a very obvious calling card

ShatterAlan

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Twin investigations uncovered their identities

https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-europe/2018/09/26/skripal-suspect-boshirov-identified-gru-colonel-anatoliy-chepiga/

https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-europe/2018/10/09/full-report-skripal-poisoning-suspect-dr-alexander-mishkin-hero-russia/



Because they were both in Salisbury the same day the poisonings happened, they travelled in on false identities, the victims were poisoned by Novichok: a nerve agent developed by Russia, they were caught on CCTV and their route took them close to the Skripal house, they immediately left the country after the poisonings and the hotel where they stayed was found to contain traces of Novichok (which was confirmed to have been used)

Sergei Skripal wasn't of "zero" significance, he was an ex-Russian military intelligence officer who was continuing to pass information to the UK and West, and as we've seen from Litvinenko's assassination, Putin is a) not fond of that and b) not afraid to attempt assassinations on foreign soil with exotic methods that leave a very obvious calling card

"bellingcat"

Now this is the opening line from that crap that you have posted:

"Bellingcat and its investigative partner The Insider – Russia have established conclusively the identity of one of the suspects in the poisoning of Sergey and Yulia Skripal, and in the homicide of British citizen Dawn Sturgess."

Has this "conclusive" evidence been passed on to Interpol and been circulated? Or is it just more crap?

DohnJoe, you certainly fall for a lot of....let's say it...crap.




Right. So a bought and paid for sh1tstirrer is a viable source of the truth but RT is a propaganda sewer?



The Lancet and the New England Journal of Medicine are ragmags because they produce findings that you dislike.


You traduce people and in your own words "table youtube videos" and then you come up with "bellingcat"


Have some digniity and a smidgen of self respect, man.

ShatterAlan

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Twin investigations uncovered their identities

https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-europe/2018/09/26/skripal-suspect-boshirov-identified-gru-colonel-anatoliy-chepiga/

https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-europe/2018/10/09/full-report-skripal-poisoning-suspect-dr-alexander-mishkin-hero-russia/



Because they were both in Salisbury the same day the poisonings happened, they travelled in on false identities, the victims were poisoned by Novichok: a nerve agent developed by Russia, they were caught on CCTV and their route took them close to the Skripal house, they immediately left the country after the poisonings and the hotel where they stayed was found to contain traces of Novichok (which was confirmed to have been used)

Sergei Skripal wasn't of "zero" significance, he was an ex-Russian military intelligence officer who was continuing to pass information to the UK and West, and as we've seen from Litvinenko's assassination, Putin is a) not fond of that and b) not afraid to attempt assassinations on foreign soil with exotic methods that leave a very obvious calling card

One last question. How deadly is this "Novichok"?

Actually I'll add to that.......what POSSIBLE advantage or outcome could have benefitted, Russia, Putin, the spooky Ruskis, Muslims, Castro <insert enemie du jour here> in trying AND FAILING to kill a low grade, retired spook?

If he was living in a fairly modest 2 up 2 down in England but was still such a threat to Russia and passing on information to the Brits and that's why he had to be offed then I would imagine he would have been a valuable guy who wouldn't be so exposed as to be able to go for a pizza and then get poisoned but not killed by two of the (apparently) deadliest hit men in the world, who have since blown up a Czech arms factory.

If these lads can blow up an arms depot and not be detected for almost a decade then they should be able to just rock up to someone and put a few bullets into them. I would imagine that they might even have the capacity and wherewithall to make sure that a body was never found. Possibly they could dress up as circus clowns and head off to Brighton with Sergei and maybe Yulia in a wagon only to be picked up by an offshore submarine and disposed off at sea.

Dohnjoe

ShatterAlan wrote: »

"bellingcat"

Now this is the opening line from that crap that you have posted:

"Bellingcat and its investigative partner The Insider – Russia have established conclusively the identity of one of the suspects in the poisoning of Sergey and Yulia Skripal, and in the homicide of British citizen Dawn Sturgess."

Has this "conclusive" evidence been passed on to Interpol and been circulated? Or is it just more crap?

Interpol red notice, UK and European arrest warrants

You didn't address any of the evidence, just went on a rant.