Replace an ID.3 Tour.

Silent Running

I may have to reject the ID.3 Tour I bought, as the car is stuck in the workshop for 4 weeks now, going round in circles with the software issues and getting nowhere. My plan at the moment is to push for an exact replacement, but I don't know if I have enough confidence in Volkswagen now to go this route.

I'm in a bit of a quandary now. What do I replace it with? I've toyed with the option of buying a second hand Kia EV and trading it in against an EV6 at the start of next year, but it would be a risk; I might not get a decent trade in value when I go to trade.

A classic Ioniq to trade against an Ioniq 5 crossed my mind, but the range is too low.

The EV6 and Ioniq 5 might be too big for my needs anyway.

I have no interest in any Tesla. While decent cars, I think that they're taking the piss with the prices for what you get, and they don't make a car that would appeal to me. I'm looking for a medium hatchback.

I need good range for a regular trip that I hope to get back to soon.

Any suggestions?

eagerv

Silent Running wrote: »

I may have to reject the ID.3 Tour I bought, as the car is stuck in the workshop for 4 weeks now, going round in circles with the software issues and getting nowhere. My plan at the moment is to push for an exact replacement, but I don't know if I have enough confidence in Volkswagen now to go this route.

I'm in a bit of a quandary now. What do I replace it with? I've toyed with the option of buying a second hand Kia EV and trading it in against an EV6 at the start of next year, but it would be a risk; I might not get a decent trade in value when I go to trade.

A classic Ioniq to trade against an Ioniq 5 crossed my mind, but the range is too low.

The EV6 and Ioniq 5 might be too big for my needs anyway.

I have no interest in any Tesla. While decent cars, I think that they're taking the piss with the prices for what you get, and they don't make a car that would appeal to me. I'm looking for a medium hatchback.

I need good range for a regular trip that I hope to get back to soon.

Any suggestions?

Very sorry to hear Silent Running.


I think you are doing the correct thing, rejecting the car. It is an expensive piece of machinery and certainly not up to expectations in your case.


What to replace it with? A difficult question. You mentioned an older Niro and a Ioniq 28. If a good value second hand Ioniq 38 came along it may be another choice though the slow charging would be a problem for the long runs. Also a Kona at the right price? Just thinking aloud, perhaps Hyundai would be best if you will be considering an Ioniq 5 in the future?

mike_2009

Have a quick look at the Opel Mokka-e? Not quite the same range but has decent charging speed.

slave1

I think the Ioniq38 is an underestimate car, it's a fully loaded trim, not to be ignored...

Sabre Man

A Kia Soul?

[Deleted User]

ID3 58kwh battery should get 130KW charging by Q4. It is an improving car thanks to OTA updates which is probably ironic for you as the firmware is your problem at the moment.

[Deleted User]

Silent Running wrote: »

I may have to reject the ID.3 Tour I bought, as the car is stuck in the workshop for 4 weeks now, going round in circles with the software issues and getting nowhere. My plan at the moment is to push for an exact replacement, but I don't know if I have enough confidence in Volkswagen now to go this route.

I'm in a bit of a quandary now. What do I replace it with? I've toyed with the option of buying a second hand Kia EV and trading it in against an EV6 at the start of next year, but it would be a risk; I might not get a decent trade in value when I go to trade.

A classic Ioniq to trade against an Ioniq 5 crossed my mind, but the range is too low.

The EV6 and Ioniq 5 might be too big for my needs anyway.

I have no interest in any Tesla. While decent cars, I think that they're taking the piss with the prices for what you get, and they don't make a car that would appeal to me. I'm looking for a medium hatchback.

I need good range for a regular trip that I hope to get back to soon.

Any suggestions?

That's a real shame.

VW should have released a car more normal like the Golf "in my opinion" that is not so heavily based on software and it's backfiring, I've even seen youtube videos from professional reviewers of the id.4 vs E-Niro and they were so annoyed with doing anything on the move that they said they would happily drive the E-Niro instead.

So maybe think about that or wait for the Ioni1 5 or 6 but I can't see those being cheap cars.

I think the E-Niro is due a refresh later this year too might be worth holding off for. I think after all I'm after reading and seeing on the ID. software disaster that I would probably suffer FWD E-Niro before dodgy software and poor ergonomics.

I'm not even sure the faster charging of the id range or rumoured charging power boost could convince me to go with the id range and it's a huge shame because the id range should have been a lot better but maybe some day they will get the software right or not make a car so dependent on software again, hopefully. There's nothing wrong with some buttons or better again, a system like BMW's Idrive.

Silent Running

Deleted User wrote: »

That's a real shame.

VW should have released a car more normal like the Golf "in my opinion" that is not so heavily based on software and it's backfiring, I've even seen youtube videos from professional reviewers of the id.4 vs E-Niro and they were so annoyed with doing anything on the move that they said they would happily drive the E-Niro instead.

So maybe think about that or wait for the Ioni1 5 or 6 but I can't see those being cheap cars.

I think the E-Niro is due a refresh later this year too might be worth holding off for. I think after all I'm after reading and seeing on the ID. software disaster that I would probably suffer FWD E-Niro before dodgy software and poor ergonomics.

I'm not even sure the faster charging of the id range or rumoured charging power boost could convince me to go with the id range and it's a huge shame because the id range should have been a lot better but maybe some day they will get the software right or not make a car so dependent on software again, hopefully. There's nothing wrong with some buttons or better again, a system like BMW's Idrive.

They absolutely have to get the software right, and I think they will when they wake up and realise the reputational damage the ID brand is suffering. They've pinned the whole future of the company on it, they released it too early because they had to, and the product - software - just isn't ready.

That might have been acceptable to first movers when they signed an agreement to accept glitches until the final software was released in Q1. Now Q1 has come and gone and some of the glitches remain. I didn't sign up for glitches, but I have them anyway.

They have to get it right, it's just a matter of when.

alfa_aficionado

Do you mind if I ask what has happened to your ID.3 SR?

Mine was in for the 2.0 to 2.1 update at the beginning of the week and it took them 72hrs before finally admitting that the update had broken something. They said it was the headlight units but I’m not sure how truthful they’re being given that it’s been me doing all the chasing so far and they fobbed me off with “it’s a large update that’s why it’s taking so long” even though I would have thought 2.0 to 2.1 was a smaller, incremental update.

I regret getting the ID.3 now as well - the software is beyond a joke and there’s no end in sight for the foreseeable future. My 2015 i3 was much more advanced (although to be fair there was a stage when their android app was crap, although I believe the iOS app was always good) & apart from a much larger battery in the ID.3 everything else has been a downgrade.

alfa_aficionado

I forgot to ask how long you have had your ID.3 for and what sort of mileage you have covered in it?

[Deleted User]

Silent Running wrote: »

They absolutely have to get the software right, and I think they will when they wake up and realise the reputational damage the ID brand is suffering. They've pinned the whole future of the company on it, they released it too early because they had to, and the product - software - just isn't ready.

That might have been acceptable to first movers when they signed an agreement to accept glitches until the final software was released in Q1. Now Q1 has come and gone and some of the glitches remain. I didn't sign up for glitches, but I have them anyway.

They have to get it right, it's just a matter of when.

The real question is why Volkswagen went completely untraditional in design and function of the infotainment and thought it was a good idea ?

Surely a more traditional interior would have been better and probably more enjoyable ?

Bjorn seems to like the id.4

[Deleted User]

alfa_aficionado wrote: »

My 2015 i3 was much more advanced

Not sure what infotainment you had in your i3, mine has the larger screen, more advanced bluetooth or whatever they call it. The ability to Fully control spotify is really convenient I have to say and all from the Idrive, it makes it so easy to use even on bumpy roads, you can't accidently hit off something like a touchscreen.

Pity the Ix3 is so damn expensive, ridiculous! Looks fantastic inside!

[Deleted User]

I would like to know what ye lads think of the id.4 infotainment compared to the id.3 but ye probably haven't tested it ?

I'm having a look at the id.4 on Monday evening, not sure whether I'll be allowed take it for a spin but my thoughts were that when I'm finished with it the missus might replace the Outlander Diesel as it's the type of car she likes.

The id.4 is quiet expensive though and I'm not entirely sure it's worth it over the E-Niro.

TitianGerm

GarIT wrote: »

My dad delivers them, he says almost half of all sold are sitting in the garage for months. Including one that shut down on the motorway.

That sounds like pub talk to me. If it was true then there surely there would be more than two in the whole ID thread that have been without their cars for more than two or three days?

alfa_aficionado

Deleted User wrote: »

Not sure what infotainment you had in your i3, mine has the larger screen, more advanced bluetooth or whatever they call it. The ability to Fully control spotify is really convenient I have to say and all from the Idrive, it makes it so easy to use even on bumpy roads, you can't accidently hit off something like a touchscreen.

Pity the Ix3 is so damn expensive, ridiculous! Looks fantastic inside!

Yeah, mine had the same - I think it was called Professional Media? The only option mine didn’t have was the sunroof - it had motorway assist / self parking etc. The only issue was the small battery - I had the 60aH REX. I probably would have kept it if it had been the later 94aH version but it’s range was just at the limit of my daily commute in Winter.

And you’re right - the iDrive controller is probably still one of the most intuitive and easily controlled UIs. I also found the voice control reasonable - better than the ID.3’s so far anyway.

[Deleted User]

alfa_aficionado wrote: »

Yeah, mine had the same - I think it was called Professional Media? The only option mine didn’t have was the sunroof - it had motorway assist / self parking etc. The only issue was the small battery - I had the 60aH REX. I probably would have kept it if it had been the later 94aH version but it’s range was just at the limit of my daily commute in Winter.

And you’re right - the iDrive controller is probably still one of the most intuitive and easily controlled UIs. I also found the voice control reasonable - better than the ID.3’s so far anyway.

Yes it is but I'm really puzzled by VW's decision to go all out software, trying to be ultra modern just because it's electric ? it doesn't make sense, it's as if control of the infotainment of the id range has been given to 20 something year old software graduates with little to no experience.

Silent Running

We need to wind this back a bit.

The ID.3 is a great car and I would be very happy to drive it for years if I got it back fault free. The fact that I'm agonising about what I would replace it with speaks highly of the car. If the car worked as it should it would be unbeatable in it's class, I would see going back to an e-Niro, e-Soul, Kona or similar as a backward step.

I appreciate that people would take this opportunity to dump on the car, but this issue with my car doesn't represent the vast majority of IDs out there. Most drivers will be thrilled with the car, and rightly so.

I'm happy with the UI and like the idea of moving things forward with voice control and with software controlling the car and all of the safety elements it controls. I'm convinced that the car would be the wrong choice for anyone considering vehicular suicide. The car just wouldn't allow it. :P

After an afternoon of heated but friendly discussion at the dealership yesterday, I drove the car away. Following a hectic week of work at the dealership, the only remaining issue is that the car won't display the total distance covered.

The dealer principal and the CS manager, who have been great throughout this affair, have committed to resolve all issues, and rejection is still on the table.

The charging issue has been escalated beyond Volkswagen Ireland, who have been terrible throughout, to Wolfsburg and they're sending out a data logger that I have agreed to have installed in the car to determine what is causing the charging problem.

Getting out of the ID.3 1st Plus and back into my Tour, it's amazing how different they feel. I don't regret for a second going for the spec I did.

I'd just like to stress how badly VW Ireland have been with this issue. They don't give a shit about me as a customer or their franchised dealer. All I've had from Dublin is deflection and abdication of responsibility. The dealer has been left unsupported, but the CS manager is a determined sort and will chase issues down, even if it means side-lining Dublin.

Silent Running

alfa_aficionado wrote: »

Do you mind if I ask what has happened to your ID.3 SR?

Mine was in for the 2.0 to 2.1 update at the beginning of the week and it took them 72hrs before finally admitting that the update had broken something. They said it was the headlight units but I’m not sure how truthful they’re being given that it’s been me doing all the chasing so far and they fobbed me off with “it’s a large update that’s why it’s taking so long” even though I would have thought 2.0 to 2.1 was a smaller, incremental update.

I regret getting the ID.3 now as well - the software is beyond a joke and there’s no end in sight for the foreseeable future. My 2015 i3 was much more advanced (although to be fair there was a stage when their android app was crap, although I believe the iOS app was always good) & apart from a much larger battery in the ID.3 everything else has been a downgrade.

I've read of headlights having to be replaced because of update issues. The 2.1 update isn't what it was supposed to be and there's talk of a 2.2 or even a 3.0 this year. I do believe that they'll get it right, but they really need to get their skates on!

My dealer has been upfront about issues and communication has been fantastic. I was informed within minutes that the update had failed and that the main gateway ICAS1 had to be replaced. The problem I had was that it took weeks to get hold of the ICAS1, which had a manufacturing date of the day before my car went in for the update. I understand that the unit needs to be customised to the spec of the car.

I had the ID.3 for three and a half weeks and clocked up an impressive 270 kilometres in that time. I don't regret the purchase decision, my e-Niro was the first edition, but if it had been the latest one, I probably wouldn't have made the move.

I've been seriously pissed off with the delay in putting the car back on the road. The frustration caused by Volkswagen Ireland has been severe and deep. But I'll try to push through because I know the car has what it takes to make it all worthwhile.

[Deleted User]

Silent Running wrote: »

I may have to reject the ID.3 Tour I bought, as the car is stuck in the workshop for 4 weeks now, going round in circles with the software issues and getting nowhere. My plan at the moment is to push for an exact replacement, but I don't know if I have enough confidence in Volkswagen now to go this route.

I'm in a bit of a quandary now. What do I replace it with? I've toyed with the option of buying a second hand Kia EV and trading it in against an EV6 at the start of next year, but it would be a risk; I might not get a decent trade in value when I go to trade.

A classic Ioniq to trade against an Ioniq 5 crossed my mind, but the range is too low.

The EV6 and Ioniq 5 might be too big for my needs anyway.

I have no interest in any Tesla. While decent cars, I think that they're taking the piss with the prices for what you get, and they don't make a car that would appeal to me. I'm looking for a medium hatchback.

I need good range for a regular trip that I hope to get back to soon.

Any suggestions?

Silent Running wrote: »

We need to wind this back a bit.

The ID.3 is a great car and I would be very happy to drive it for years if I got it back fault free. The fact that I'm agonising about what I would replace it with speaks highly of the car. If the car worked as it should it would be unbeatable in it's class, I would see going back to an e-Niro, e-Soul, Kona or similar as a backward step.

I appreciate that people would take this opportunity to dump on the car, but this issue with my car doesn't represent the vast majority of IDs out there. Most drivers will be thrilled with the car, and rightly so.

Hmmmmm.

So you come on to complain about the id.3 then moan at others who complain about it thinking the reason they do is to use it as an opportunity to run it down ?

Then you see going back to the E-Niro which was a perfectly functional car as a backwards step ?

Do you not think it's fair to criticise a car that has such issues made by the Worlds largest Automaker that costs a lot of money ? or should only owners criticise it ?

I haven't seen the Tour interior but the E-Niro looks a lot better inside ?

You could get the current Gen E-Niro and save a few quid at least you won't have these software issues.

Or check out the id.4 ?

By the way, is the id.3 much smaller than the E-Niro ?

The question you are probably asking now is if you think you can live with issues while VW Programmers fumble about not knowing what to do ? Fix one thing break something else ?

Silent Running

Deleted User wrote: »

Hmmmmm.

So you come on to complain about the id.3 then moan at others who complain about it thinking the reason they do is to use it as an opportunity to run it down ?

Then you see going back to the E-Niro which was a perfectly functional car as a backwards step ?

Do you not think it's fair to criticise a car that has such issues made by the Worlds largest Automaker that costs a lot of money ? or should only owners criticise it ?

I haven't seen the Tour interior but the E-Niro looks a lot better inside ?

You could get the current Gen E-Niro and save a few quid at least you won't have these software issues.

Or check out the id.4 ?

By the way, is the id.3 much smaller than the E-Niro ?

I criticised a car not every ID.3. Criticising the whole ID range is unfair. As I pointed out, most owners are very happy. Feel free to criticise my car.

The e-Niro feels old and 'normal' inside. The ID.3 is much more open and bright. What bothered me in the e-Niro was the high level of the top of the doors. The ID.3 levels are much lower, making the car feel more open.

The e-Niro and ID.3 are broadly similar in size. They are very close in exterior measurements. I think internal space is similar. Where the ID.3 loses out is in no ability to have a frunk. I had one in the e-Niro and it was a great storage space.

TitianGerm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Hmmmmm.

So you come on to complain about the id.3 then moan at others who complain about it thinking the reason they do is to use it as an opportunity to run it down ?

Then you see going back to the E-Niro which was a perfectly functional car as a backwards step ?

Do you not think it's fair to criticise a car that has such issues made by the Worlds largest Automaker that costs a lot of money ? or should only owners criticise it ?

I haven't seen the Tour interior but the E-Niro looks a lot better inside ?

You could get the current Gen E-Niro and save a few quid at least you won't have these software issues.

Or check out the id.4 ?

By the way, is the id.3 much smaller than the E-Niro ?

The question you are probably asking now is if you think you can live with issues while VW Programmers fumble about not knowing what to do ? Fix one thing break something else ?

The OPs post was clearly posted before they got the car back and had their discussion with the dealer. Maybe that has changed their opinion somewhat? Either way they do say that they are happy with the car but are annoyed with the fact the car was out of commission for so long. They could have been asking for recommendations based on the fact they didn't know what was happening and when they'd actually get their ID3 back?

Also maybe your not fully up to date on the VW side but the ID4 has the same software as the ID3 so if that's the issue with the ID3 why go with the ID4?

[Deleted User]

Silent Running wrote: »

I criticised a car not every ID.3. Criticising the whole ID range is unfair. As I pointed out, most owners are very happy. Feel free to criticise my car.

The e-Niro feels old and 'normal' inside. The ID.3 is much more open and bright. What bothered me in the e-Niro was the high level of the top of the doors. The ID.3 levels are much lower, making the car feel more open.

The e-Niro and ID.3 are broadly similar in size. They are very close in exterior measurements. I think internal space is similar. Where the ID.3 loses out is in no ability to have a frunk. I had one in the e-Niro and it was a great storage space.

Most owners are happy ? have you heard from them or you mean most boards.ie owners are happy ? which a minuscule amount of Irish owners.

A lot of people prefer Old and normal, at least there's buttons to do what you want in a split second. New and modern isn't always best.

I will say the id.3 is decent to drive and I can't wait to get a test drive in the id.4 Monday evening. I can imagine the ACC is good to have too which is missing on the tour as it can also change the steering feel, it's available on the Tech I think with the 58 Kwh.

I will say though that AC controls you can't see at night is really amazing from the Worlds largest Auto Maker or has that changed now with a software update ?

How many menus do you have to scroll through to do basic things ? and how much time do you think your eyes are off the road or are you supposed to ask the car to do everything ? can't see that working well with noisy Children in the car.

I think Bjorn mentioned the software in the id.4 was a lot smoother so perhaps there are some difference, might even come down to CPU power.

Silent Running

TitianGerm wrote: »

The OPs post was clearly posted before they got the car back and had their discussion with the dealer. Maybe that has changed their opinion somewhat? Either way they do say that they are happy with the car but are annoyed with the fact the car was out of commission for so long. They could have been asking for recommendations based on the fact they didn't know what was happening and when they'd actually get their ID3 back?

Also maybe your not fully up to date on the VW side but the ID4 has the same software as the ID3 so if that's the issue with the ID3 why go with the ID4?

To be fair, the reject option is still on the table. If they don't get the car fully functional in a reasonable timeframe, we're going there. The fact that the only obvious flaw at the moment is the lack of display of total distance, the 'reasonable time' can be stretched a good bit. If another, more serious, issue crops up, the time vanishes.

Silent Running

Deleted User wrote: »

Most owners are happy ? have you heard from them or you mean most boards.ie owners are happy ? which a minuscule amount of Irish owners.

A lot of people prefer Old and normal, at least there's buttons to do what you want in a split second. New and modern isn't always best.

I will say the id.3 is decent to drive and I can't wait to get a test drive in the id.4 Monday evening.

I will say though that AC controls you can't see at night is really amazing from the Worlds largest Auto Maker or has that changed now with a software update ?

How many menus do you have to scroll through to do basic things ? and how much time do you think your eyes are off the road or are you supposed to ask the car to do everything ? can't see that working well with noisy Children in the car.

I accept that there are still some luddites out there who would prefer starting handles instead of these new fangled key things. I'm not one of them.

Many, many owners on UK and German sites are delighted with the car. Read a bit and you can find this out for yourself.

Operating the HVAC couldn't be easier, without any clicks. I say "Hello ID, my feet are cold" within seconds I can feel the warm air on my feet. If I say "I'm too hot, the air gets colder on my side. If the passenger says it, the air gets colder on their side. It works remarkably well!

I have a 240gig SSD in the car loaded with music and video. If I say "play Comfortably Numb" Pink Floyd starts up in the speakers.

Welcome to 2021 Mad Lad.

[Deleted User]

Silent Running wrote: »

I accept that there are still some luddites out there who would prefer starting handles instead of these new fangled key things. I'm not one of them.

That's a bit extreme, no one suggested using a hand crank to start an electric car would make sense ?

Silent Running wrote: »

I have a 240gig SSD in the car loaded with music and video. If I say "play Comfortably Numb" Pink Floyd starts up in the speakers.

Welcome to 2021 Mad Lad.

SSD to play music ? I use Spotify, you know, music from the Cloud ? welcome to 2021 Silent Running! :P

[Deleted User]

What the future holds is subscriptions, buy car cheap and subscribe for maps, music, heated seats, everything will be deactivated until you subscribe for it, You want 150 HP, pay more, you want 200 Hp pay more etc etc, This is the future. New owner buys car everything is deactivated have to create new subscription to drive car and subscribe for every function in the car. This and Government pay as you drive Tax.

Higher dependency on Software only will never be a good thing in the long term.

unkel

Silent Running wrote: »

I have a 240gig SSD in the car loaded with music and video. If I say "play Comfortably Numb" Pink Floyd starts up in the speakers.

Welcome to 2021

Welcome to Tesla 2011

Glad to see your car is back with you. Obviously it's the right car for you, well wear!

eagerv

Deleted User wrote: »

Most owners are happy ? have you heard from them or you mean most boards.ie owners are happy ? which a minuscule amount of Irish owners.

A lot of people prefer Old and normal, at least there's buttons to do what you want in a split second. New and modern isn't always best.

I will say the id.3 is decent to drive and I can't wait to get a test drive in the id.4 Monday evening. I can imagine the ACC is good to have too which is missing on the tour as it can also change the steering feel, it's available on the Tech I think with the 58 Kwh.

I will say though that AC controls you can't see at night is really amazing from the Worlds largest Auto Maker or has that changed now with a software update ?

How many menus do you have to scroll through to do basic things ? and how much time do you think your eyes are off the road or are you supposed to ask the car to do everything ? can't see that working well with noisy Children in the car.

I think Bjorn mentioned the software in the id.4 was a lot smoother so perhaps there are some difference, might even come down to CPU power.

When Bjorn tested the ID.3 extensively it was in the early days, certainly before the 2.0 or 2.1 updates. He never configured the screens so information he regularly used was only available with extensive screen scrolling. I now find (granted took a while) that all info I need is quick and intuitive. Wireless car play works a dream.

[Deleted User]

eagerv wrote: »

When Bjorn tested the ID.3 extensively it was in the early days, certainly before the 2.0 or 2.1 updates. He never configured the screens so information he regularly used was only available with extensive screen scrolling. I now find (granted took a while) that all info I need is quick and intuitive. Wireless car play works a dream.

I'd really like this in the i3, at least I've full control over Spotify even if it's only by wire, tune in hasn't worked with it for a long time I guess because of a disagreement between the developers and BMW.

dashoonage

Deleted User wrote: »

What the future holds is subscriptions, buy car cheap and subscribe for maps, music, heated seats, everything will be deactivated until you subscribe for it, You want 150 HP, pay more, you want 200 Hp pay more etc etc, This is the future. New owner buys car everything is deactivated have to create new subscription to drive car and subscribe for every function in the car. This and Government pay as you drive Tax.

Higher dependency on Software only will never be a good thing in the long term.

its only a matter of time if your late with a payment your car will drive itself back to the dealers.

Silent Running

[Deleted User] wrote: »

That's a bit extreme, no one suggested using a hand crank to start an electric car would make sense ?



SSD to play music ? I use Spotify, you know, music from the Cloud ? welcome to 2021 Silent Running! :P

I never liked Spotify. A personal choice I suppose.