Declan Ganley challenging ban on attending mass

AMKC

He is complaining he could not go to church. He is one selfish fuc-k. Imagine if this ejit ran the Country we would be like Sweden is it not on lockdown at all and more people than needs to be doing all because of this idiots greed.

DelaneyIn

What?

Ckendrick

AMKC wrote: »

He is complaining he could not go to church. He is one selfish fuc-k. Imagine if this ejit ran the Country we would be like Sweden is it not on lockdown at all and more people than needs to be doing all because of this idiots greed.

Lots of people are complaining about lots of the restrictions. Why shouldn’t Declan Ganley be allowed to complain?

Kivaro

AMKC wrote: »

He is complaining he could not go to church. He is one selfish fuc-k. Imagine if this ejit ran the Country we would be like Sweden is it not on lockdown at all and more people than needs to be doing all because of this idiots greed.

Dude. Chill.

AMKC

Ckendrick wrote: »

Lots of people are complaining about lots of the restrictions. Why shouldn’t Declan Ganley be allowed to complain?

Saying he can not leave his home to attend mass lol. No one is stopping him from leaving his home but there is currently no mass anyway so he is complaining about nothing the big whingebag. He is like an old granny.

Zebra3

AMKC wrote: »

He is complaining he could not go to church.

I pity him. Imagine what he's missing.

millie35

AMKC wrote: »

Saying he can not leave his home to attend mass lol. No one is stopping him from leaving his home but there is currently no mass anyway so he is complaining about nothing the big whingebag. He is like an old granny.

Leave us old grannies out of it!

suicide_circus

Churches etc are very important to some people

KaneToad

AMKC wrote: »

Saying he can not leave his home to attend mass lol. No one is stopping him from leaving his home but there is currently no mass anyway so he is complaining about nothing the big whingebag. He is like an old granny.

Some people like going to church. Some people like going to the pub. I'm not bothered by either. Each to their own...

rostalof

suicide_circus wrote: »

Churches etc are very important to some people

That's true. Live gigs, live sports and pubs are very important to even more people. But people won't be allowed attend them in large numbers anytime soon....

osarusan

No less or more of a whine than plenty of others tbh.

suicide_circus

We're all entitled to argue for the return of our liberties

aren't we?

HeidiHeidi

osarusan wrote: »

No less or more of a whine than plenty of others tbh.

This!

RichT

Well Jealous OP!

You're obviously posting from a Beer Garden in The UK.

Mad_maxx

AMKC wrote: »

He is complaining he could not go to church. He is one selfish fuc-k. Imagine if this ejit ran the Country we would be like Sweden is it not on lockdown at all and more people than needs to be doing all because of this idiots greed.

He's 100% right to challenge the government on this

Beechwoodspark

How dare you OP

Declan Ganley has as much a right as anyone else to challenge the current restrictions and fair play to him

I know plenty people who are VERY affected over not being able to attend church

An extremely sound 21 Filipino lad And his girlfriend. Church is “their safe space”
An elderly lady from kerry background - the church is her rock
A very sound 30 something fireman I know. His faith is so important to him.

Fair play to Ganley to take the challenge

yosser hughes

AMKC wrote: »

He is complaining he could not go to church. He is one selfish fuc-k. Imagine if this ejit ran the Country we would be like Sweden is it not on lockdown at all and more people than needs to be doing all because of this idiots greed.

What's greed got to do with it?

He's entitled to his opinion.

Beechwoodspark

OP I have seen stuff online about various dublin mosques like the south circular road being open throughout the pandemic and large congregations gathering closely

What’s your opinion on this?

My own view If true it makes an absolute mockery of the rules.

gormdubhgorm

AMKC wrote: »

He is complaining he could not go to church. He is one selfish fuc-k. Imagine if this ejit ran the Country we would be like Sweden is it not on lockdown at all and more people than needs to be doing all because of this idiots greed.

Isn't God supposed to be all around us? Even in this thread! So the point is moot?

Fair play to Declan Ganley I say... madness that religious worship is banned, no reason why a small number of people can't sit in what are often massive buildings for 25 mins or so.

gormdubhgorm

Lizbeth Wet Egg wrote: »

Fair play to Declan Ganley I say... madness that religious worship is banned, no reason why a small number of people can't sit in what are often massive buildings for 25 mins or so.

Donegalforever

AMKC wrote: »

He is complaining he could not go to church. He is one selfish fuc-k. Imagine if this ejit ran the Country we would be like Sweden is it not on lockdown at all and more people than needs to be doing all because of this idiots greed.

Your not bad at complaining yourself!

beggars_bush

If god truly is omnipotent, then it doesn't matter where you worship him/her

beggars_bush

beggars_bush wrote: »

If god truly is omnipotent, then it doesn't matter where you worship him/her

This is what the Scottish courts had to say on the matter in a similar case there:

Lord Braid stated in his decision:”I have concluded that the Regulations … constitute a disproportionate interference with the Article 9 right of the petitioners and others. As such, they are beyond the legislative competence of the respondents.”

He added: “ The Regulations are also a disproportionate interference with the petitioners’ and additional party’s constitutional rights.”

He also rejected the government’s argument that congregations could simply worship online.

"While some people may derive some benefit from being able to observe on-line services, it is undeniable that certain aspects of certain faiths simply cannot take place, at all, under the current legislative regime," he said.

“It is impossible to measure the effect of those restrictions on those who hold religious beliefs. It goes beyond mere loss of companionship and an inability to attend a lunch club.

"The fact that the regulations are backed by criminal sanctions is also a relevant consideration...

...He said the government had “paid lip service” to Article 9 of the European Convention on Human Rights, which states: “Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief, in worship, teaching, practice and observance.”

Lord Braid said there was “no evidence that they [the government] have accorded it the importance which such a fundamental right deserves.”

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politi...lawful-3176715

Kermit.de.frog

Step away from the Alcohol OP, baby steps, you can do this, we can help you

Beechwoodspark

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

OP I have seen stuff online about various dublin mosques like the south circular road being open throughout the pandemic and large congregations gathering closely

What’s your opinion on this?

My own view If true it makes an absolute mockery of the rules.

It's not true.
And you're making it up

gormdubhgorm

I wonder why the OP is so annoyed at Ganley I honestly don't get the rage. Is it just s/he does not like him?

whisky_galore

beggars_bush wrote: »

If god truly is omnipotent, then it doesn't matter where you worship him/her

Jesus never went to mass.

mcmoustache

Lizbeth Wet Egg wrote: »

Fair play to Declan Ganley I say... madness that religious worship is banned, no reason why a small number of people can't sit in what are often massive buildings for 25 mins or so.

Mad_maxx wrote: »

He's 100% right to challenge the government on this

These lockdowns have gone on for such a long time. People are missing out on the sort of socialisation that can keep them centered. They're feeling isolated. It's having a detrimental effect on their sanity. Without the social elements of life, they're losing sight of what's reasonable and what's stupid. That might go a long way to explaining those posts above.

Beechwoodspark

bubblypop wrote: »

It's not true.
And you're making it up

Google it. Lots of stuff online about it

blackvalley

Some worship at the altar of church .
Some worship at altar of Arthur Guinness .
So would expect him to champion the opening of both .
We are all in this together after all .;)

Ckendrick

AMKC wrote: »

Saying he can not leave his home to attend mass lol. No one is stopping him from leaving his home but there is currently no mass anyway so he is complaining about nothing the big whingebag. He is like an old granny.

He’s complaining because only Ireland has totally banned public worship and there’s no science to support the ban.
I still don’t understand why you’ve decided that his complaint of all the complaints by many many people is worthy of ridicule.
It wouldn’t be that you’re bigoted against people of faith would it?

mickdw

I like ganley generally as he is a good businessman but i dont know how genuine his worry about church is. There is probably an angle there for him.

Ckendrick

beggars_bush wrote: »

If god truly is omnipotent, then it doesn't matter where you worship him/her

He’s not complaining about not being allowed to worship.
He wants to go to mass.

Zebra3

whisky_galore wrote: »

Jesus never went to mass.

Would've been, like, major awks.

Being offered a nibble and sup of himself.

Beechwoodspark

Smee_Again wrote: »

I always enjoy reading your anecdotes, perfectly tailored to suit point being made.

Completely fictitious mind you, but they always perfectly match the point you’re trying to make.

Does it take you long to think of them?

I don’t know what posts you are thinking of (maybe PM me as I’m genuinely curious) but those people I mention in my post are all good friends of mine and are very much affected by churches being closed.

Not just Catholic Church btw. The Filipino couple I know go to a Pentecostal church.

I have a VERY good friend who was a daily mass goer who I didn’t even mention in the post who is very down over the whole thing.

I hope Declan Ganley can achieve something with his court case

Beechwoodspark

bubblypop wrote: »

It's not true.
And you're making it up

https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/dublin-blackpitts-mosque-coronavirus-garda-19878191

Here’s just one of many articles online

I accept your apology in advance.

Thanks

Ten of Swords

Thread title updated

biko

I suppose in an extended crisis like this many people tend to find comfort in religion.

Pherekydes

He needs to be seen to go to church.

gormdubhgorm

biko wrote: »

I suppose in an extended crisis like this many people tend to find comfort in religion.

Great point it is safety net. Gives people who need it a chance to talk things out to themselves/God however you want to phrase it.

Donald Trump

We need to come up with a solution to sort this out. Put your thinking caps on people. Any ideas?

gormdubhgorm

Donald Trump wrote: »

We need to come up with a solution to sort this out. Put your thinking caps on people. Any ideas?

I think an obvious solution as the weather gets better is open air masses in car parks, fields and the likes. Sure didn't they do that craic in penal times. Stay in cars take away communion at the gate job done.

Donegalforever

AMKC wrote: »

He is complaining he could not go to church. He is one selfish fuc-k. Imagine if this ejit ran the Country we would be like Sweden is it not on lockdown at all and more people than needs to be doing all because of this idiots greed.

Perhaps this will educate you :

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/covid-blanket-ban-on-church-worship-in-scotland-ruled-unlawful-3176715

gormdubhgorm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I think an obvious solution as the weather gets better is open air masses in car parks, fields and the likes. Sure didn't they do that craic in penal times. Stay in cars take away communion at the gate job done.

Thats currently illegal!

Last March, the case was adjourned until 13th April, but I haven't seen or heard any updates

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/high-court/state-asked-to-clarify-basis-for-covid-19-restrictions-on-attending-mass-1.4518152

Apparently the State declined to say whether the 'ban' on going to church services is only advisory or not. There is some ambiguity in the regulations.

This is what pisses me off. Restrictions are one thing, but when liberties are being so tightly curtailed, we should expect and be given legal clarity. I understand that we are in an emergency, and restrictions are necessary, but treat us like adults. It's unsettling, the extent to which people, and the media especially, accept serious curtailment without asking questions in reply.

The law should be clear.

Moghead

Could he not just do his own mass at home? Anyone who has spent years going to mass could easily recite the whole service anyway. Maybe he could make a game out of it, try and come up with a different sermon every day. Try out different wafers and wine?

Graces7

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Last March, the case was adjourned until 13th April, but I haven't seen or heard any updates

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/high-court/state-asked-to-clarify-basis-for-covid-19-restrictions-on-attending-mass-1.4518152

Apparently the State declined to say whether the 'ban' on going to church services is only advisory or not. There is some ambiguity in the regulations.

This is what pisses me off. Restrictions are one thing, but when liberties are being so tightly curtailed, we should expect and be given legal clarity. I understand that we are in an emergency, and restrictions are necessary, but treat us like adults. It's unsettling, the extent to which people, and the media especially, accept serious curtailment without asking questions in reply.

The law should be clear.

Mass is subject to the same restrictions as every other public gathering and for the same reasons; covid and the risk of infection.

The Catholic Church consequently gave a dispensation from obligatory Mass attendance .

Because of covid.

Hence nothing really to do with "liberties". Simply precautionary rules that apply to us all, in every organisation. Very simple.

References being made to this being equal to the banning of Mass in Penal Times by an anti-Christian government are way off beam

All the Church is being asked to do is avoid congregating because of the risk of infection; ie to care for each other.

Same as gyms, pubs etc etc etc.

I watched a sermon on youtube last night on this. Denouncing the govt, calling it anti-Christian, demanding back to Penal Time rules. Never a mention of covid or the need for care re infection. The new CC in Achill is on the same wavelength. Never a mention of the reason for no mass. Headed "Faith under Attack"

All they like everyone else needs to do is wait now a while until we can congregate safely. Mass on TV. Pray at home. Keep the faith. Care for each other in all this.

Graces7

Graces7 wrote: »

Mass is subject to the same restrictions as every other public gathering and for the same reasons; covid and the risk of infection.

The Catholic Church consequently gave a dispensation from obligatory Mass attendance .

Because of covid.

Two things.

This isn't just about Catholics. There are tiny communities of religious faiths scattered across Ireland whose very cohesion depends on their church or meeting house, synagogue or mosque. That's not an argument against restrictions, I'm just saying this goes beyond attending services or prayer.

More importantly, my point is that it isn't yet clear whether the law does or does not prohibit attending services. Make the law clear, especially when you are putting a constraint on individual freedoms. A situation where there is a vague ban on liberties, so people are afraid to do anything in case it might be illegal, is like something out of Kafka.

There is a principle in criminal law that because the stakes are so high for an accused person's liberty, the law must be as literal, and as clear, as possible. Ordinary people seeking to go about their lives deserve the same clarity. We had a similar situation this time last year when older people thought it was illegal for them not to cocoon, even fairly sharp guys like Charlie Bird later reported that he felt he had been somewhat tricked into falsely believing this.

The law should be crystal clear when it comes to prohibiting such basic elements of human activity, or state whether these are just guides.

Strumms

biko wrote: »

I suppose in an extended crisis like this many people tend to find comfort in religion.

If you find comfort in behaving in a manner that will proliferate the spread of covid though ?

the guy a simpleton... Can you imagine if mass was to be allowed ffs... most churches are poorly ventilated, old, poorly spaced buildings..

I’m reading there are about 1100 churches (Catholic) in Ireland, it would be a covid shîtshow... imagine the first mass, you’d have the priest appealing for everyone to disperse after but...like fûck that happens...

“ ohh how are you, isn’t it awful, how is your Frank, and ohhh yes we watched Maureen’s funeral on the Internet, sad, I feel all the better for the broadband though, very clear”.

Most churches have about 50 yappers after mass..

Mrs OBumble

Strumms wrote: »

If you find comfort in behaving in a manner that will proliferate the spread of covid though ?

the guy a simpleton... Can you imagine if mass was to be allowed ffs... most churches are poorly ventilated, old, poorly spaced buildings..

I’m reading there are about 1100 churches (Catholic) in Ireland, it would be a covid shîtshow... imagine the first mass, you’d have the priest appealing for everyone to disperse after but...like fûck that happens...

“ ohh how are you, isn’t it awful, how is your Frank, and ohhh yes we watched Maureen’s funeral on the Internet, sad, I feel all the better for the broadband though, very clear”.

Most churches have about 50 yappers after mass..

What utter rubbish.

Most old churches are drafty. That means fresh air ventilation.

They're huge, with lots of space for distancing.

When they opened from July-Sept last year, people running them were paranoid as he'll and they were better controlled than ANY other place. There was no Covid ****sh*w.