Was Osama Bin Laden a patsy?

JohnMcm1

Seems he had a good relationship with the US government at one stage? I think it's likely he was killed and the us faked footage afterwards as he was a good scapegoat for 9/11

JohnMcm1

JohnMcm1 wrote: »

Seems he had a good relationship with the US government at one stage? I think it's likely he was killed and the us faked footage afterwards as he was a good scapegoat for 9/11

Meant to post this in the original, saw it doing the rounds on social media.

Dohnjoe

JohnMcm1 wrote: »

Seems he had a good relationship with the US government at one stage? I think it's likely he was killed and the us faked footage afterwards as he was a good scapegoat for 9/11

When and where was he killed according to you and what's the evidence for that?

poisonated

JohnMcm1 wrote: »

Meant to post this in the original, saw it doing the rounds on social media.

I presume you know this is photoshopped?

JohnMcm1

Dohnjoe wrote: »

When and where was he killed according to you and what's the evidence for that?

If you ever see so called recorded videos of him from Afghanistan he looks very different. Obviously I don't have evidence myself but you have to question why a man who seemed happy to party with serving and future us presidents would want to commit an attrocity on the US.

Charlie19

I read that he was vegan too.

Dohnjoe

JohnMcm1 wrote: »

If you ever see so called recorded videos of him from Afghanistan he looks very different.

I've seen a lot of the footage, he doesn't "look different" to me. Do you have any evidence they are all doctored? if so, that's some very impressive double or CGI. Also managed to fool all of the world's intelligence agencies, and Al Qaeda themselves.

Obviously I don't have evidence myself but you have to question why a man who seemed happy to party with serving and future us presidents would want to commit an attrocity on the US.

He declared war on the US in 1996. He was on the FBI's top ten most wanted list by 1998.

JohnMcm1

Dohnjoe wrote: »

I've seen a lot of the footage, he doesn't "look different" to me. Do you have any evidence they are all doctored? if so, that's some very impressive double or CGI. Also managed to fool all of the world's intelligence agencies, and Al Qaeda themselves.



He declared war on the US in 1996. He was on the FBI's top ten most wanted list by 1998.

There's plenty of videos where they perform facial analysis and his features like his nose for example is bigger in the more recent videos. Also why would the US just ditch his body in the sea if they really caught him..and then the elite team responsible just happens to die in a crash not long afterwards..come on.

JohnMcm1

poisonated wrote: »

I presume you know this is photoshopped?

How do you know?

Dohnjoe

JohnMcm1 wrote: »

There's plenty of videos where they perform facial analysis and his features like his nose for example is bigger in the more recent videos. Also why would the US just ditch his body in the sea if they really caught him..and then the elite team responsible just happens to die in a crash not long afterwards..come on.

What videos?

They ditched his body in the sea because they didn't want to create a shrine

I believe you are referring to the Chinook crash in 2011 that killed 38. No one from the Bin Laden mission was killed in that attack, but members from their unit were killed.

JohnMcm1

Dohnjoe wrote: »

What videos?

They ditched his body in the sea because they didn't want to create a shrine

I believe you are referring to the Chinook crash in 2011 that killed 38. No one from the Bin Laden mission was killed in that attack, but members from their unit were killed.

That's not true as far as I'm aware. I love how the naysayers are choosing to ignore a picture of Osama bin Laden literally partying with future US presidents and candidates from what looks to be more recently then 1996.

Dohnjoe

JohnMcm1 wrote: »

How do you know?

It's a terrible photoshop job, so I am not sure I would trust your claims on footage of Bin Laden

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/feb/19/facebook-posts/dont-fall-these-altered-images-obama-clinton-and-r/

MrStuffins

"Ever see videos of him? Obviously doctored"

*posts obviously fake Facebook screengrab

"Photoshopped? How do you know?"

:pac:

Dohnjoe

JohnMcm1 wrote: »

That's not true as far as I'm aware.

What's not true? here are the details of the Chinook crash.

https://www.history.com/news/the-costliest-day-in-seal-team-six-history

JohnMcm1

Dohnjoe wrote: »

What's not true? here are the details of the Chinook crash.

https://www.history.com/news/the-costliest-day-in-seal-team-six-history

Yes seal team 6 are the ones who took him out.

Dohnjoe

JohnMcm1 wrote: »

Yes seal team 6 are the ones who took him out.

Did you read the article properly? A number of Seal Team 6 operators died in that crash. None of those members were on the Bin Laden mission.

JohnMcm1

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Did you read the article properly? A number of Seal Team 6 operators died in that crash. None of those members were on the Bin Laden mission.

No I didn't. Sure it's a secretive unit who's to say they weren't onboard that flight.

Atlantic Dawn

I was expecting OSB to be giving weekly updates on his 'war' but he didn't, makes no sense at all.

Dohnjoe

JohnMcm1 wrote: »

No I didn't. Sure it's a secretive unit who's to say they weren't onboard that flight.

Who's to say they were? what's your source?

At the time of the crash Seal Team 6 had between 250 and 300 members. Around two dozen took part in the Bin Laden raid.

Dohnjoe

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

I was expecting OSB to be giving weekly updates on his 'war' but he didn't, makes no sense at all.

Why would one of the world's most wanted men give "weekly updates"?

Atlantic Dawn

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Why would one of the world's most wanted men give "weekly updates"?

Because it would be simple to do and make him famous, satellite burner phone or lad on a push bike dropping off an SD card etc.

Dohnjoe

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Because it would be simple to do and make him famous, satellite burner phone or lad on a push bike dropping off an SD card etc.

Why was he after fame? he was already one of the most wanted men in the world. It was the late nineties, not Youtube, I seriously doubt taking huge risks exposing his whereabouts with "weekly updates" was top of his mind.

Trigger

JohnMcm1 wrote: »

How do you know?

Because it was widely reported at the time it came out, the source images were also all found and can still be found with a 2 second search. Here they are below:

Obama: From Attorney Andre Wooten's website

http://www.attyandrewooten.com/23a.html



Clinton: The original is with Indian musician Shubhashish Mukherjee

From here:

https://www.swarmandal.com/AsiaInWashington.html

And the photoshop was done for an online photoshop competition here:

https://archive.vn/IwhVM

Rice:

This also came from another online photoshop competition here:

https://archive.vn/IxzaS

JohnMcm1

Trigger wrote: »

Because it was widely reported at the time it came out, the source images were also all found and can still be found with a 2 second search. Here they are below:

Obama: From Attorney Andre Wooten's website

http://www.attyandrewooten.com/23a.html



Clinton: The original is with Indian musician Shubhashish Mukherjee

From here:

https://www.swarmandal.com/AsiaInWashington.html

And the photoshop was done for an online photoshop competition here:

https://archive.vn/IwhVM

Rice:

This also came from another online photoshop competition here:

https://archive.vn/IxzaS

Just to play devils advocate, how do we know the pictures you posted aren't the photoshopped versions?

Trigger

JohnMcm1 wrote: »

Just to play devils advocate, how do we know the pictures you posted aren't the photoshopped versions?

You can play devil's advocate all you want, I have provided you with links to where the photoshopped bin laden pictures originated.

JohnMcm1

Trigger wrote: »

You can play devil's advocate all you want, I have provided you with links to where the photoshopped bin laden pictures originated.

But as I said what if that site was actually set up after the fact in order to discredit the original

Guy:Incognito

JohnMcm1 wrote: »

But as I said what if that site was actually set up after the fact in order to discredit the original

What if it wasnt?

JohnMcm1

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

What if it wasnt?

Well then it would be fine but there's just so much suspicion surrounding the whole event

Fighting Irish

It's funny to me that the US spent so much time and money looking for him then once they caught him they killed him and ****ed him into the sea.

JohnMcm1

Fighting Irish wrote: »

It's funny to me that the US spent so much time and money looking for him then once they caught him they killed him and ****ed him into the sea.

Exactly

Dohnjoe

JohnMcm1 wrote: »

Well then it would be fine but there's just so much suspicion surrounding the whole event

Not really, they found him, killed him. The info is all out there.

Of course if you want mystery and suspicion, conspiracy sites cater for those demands by distorting the facts to manufacture a vague mystery out of it, the same way they do with everything.

theballz

Fighting Irish wrote: »

It's funny to me that the US spent so much time and money looking for him then once they caught him they killed him and ****ed him into the sea.

This is what is primarily fuelling the conspiracy theory.

The only plausible reason is they didn’t want to create a place of worship and within Islamic practice a burial place needs to be selected/arranged within 24 hours of death.

Personally (and I’m not a fan of conspiracy theories,) I think he had died many years before. The death of OBL was very close to Obama’s second election and was used as a tool to rally support. When the US trialed Sadam Hussien they publicised his hanging very graphically, however, they didn’t even publish a picture of Bin Laden?

Doesn’t add up in my opinion.

The Nal

Fighting Irish wrote: »

It's funny to me that the US spent so much time and money looking for him then once they caught him they killed him and ****ed him into the sea.

The alternative being?

sReq | uTeK

Trigger wrote: »

You can play devil's advocate all you want, I have provided you with links to where the photoshopped bin laden pictures originated.

Just to play devils advocate how do you know that reality is not simulated and everything is real and nothing is real?......how do you like those apples.

sReq | uTeK

Fighting Irish wrote: »

It's funny to me that the US spent so much time and money looking for him then once they caught him they killed him and ****ed him into the sea.

Its funny that the world spent so long trying to find Pablo Escobar only for a gun fight on a roof to ensure and him to die.

Its life not a movie.

Dohnjoe

theballz wrote: »

This is what is primarily fuelling the conspiracy theory.

The only plausible reason is they didn’t want to create a place of worship and within Islamic practice a burial place needs to be selected/arranged within 24 hours of death.

Personally (and I’m not a fan of conspiracy theories,) I think he had died many years before. The death of OBL was very close to Obama’s second election and was used as a tool to rally support. When the US trialed Sadam Hussien they publicised his hanging very graphically, however, they didn’t even publish a picture of Bin Laden?

Doesn’t add up in my opinion.

The Bush administration showed photos of Saddam's sons after they were shot and killed. Iraq handled Saddam's execution, and news sources obtained footage of it.

Bin Laden's death was handled entirely by the Americans and under a different administration (Obama), they chose not to make public photos of Bin Laden after his death, but certain Democrat and Republican members were shown the photos. DNA samples were taken after the raid, and compound members taken during that raid were confirmed to be related to Bin Laden.

What's odd about all this is that when the ISIS leader Al-Baghdadi was tracked down by US forces and cornered and blew himself up, and later buried at sea, it was largely accepted by conspiracy theorists without photos/video of the corpse.

Back to Bin Laden, you seem to maintain he died prior to 2011, when, where and how? and what is the evidence you're basing that on? thanks

Guy:Incognito

theballz wrote: »

. The death of OBL was very close to Obama’s second election and was used as a tool to rally support.
Doesn’t add up in my opinion.

"Very close"? It was 18 months before the election.

jam_mac_jam

The photos are hilarious. Even if you ignore the ridiculous photoshop why would any of them be taking photos with Osama? They were at the same parties?

I do find the whole burial at sea suspicious. I don't think you have to be a conspiracy theorist to believe that is strange.

TheRepentent

Fighting Irish wrote: »

It's funny to me that the US spent so much time and money looking for him then once they caught him they killed him and ****ed him into the sea.

Well what the fuk were they suppose to do with him ? Send him to a taxidermist ?
They dumped the scumbag in the sea so that his burial spot wouldn't become a shrine for other religious fuktards

sabat

theballz wrote: »

This is what is primarily fuelling the conspiracy theory.

The only plausible reason is they didn’t want to create a place of worship and within Islamic practice a burial place needs to be selected/arranged within 24 hours of death.

Personally (and I’m not a fan of conspiracy theories,) I think he had died many years before. The death of OBL was very close to Obama’s second election and was used as a tool to rally support. When the US trialed Sadam Hussien they publicised his hanging very graphically, however, they didn’t even publish a picture of Bin Laden?

Doesn’t add up in my opinion.

Seymour Hersh with a far more credible account of what happened:

https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v37/n10/seymour-m.-hersh/the-killing-of-osama-bin-laden

Dohnjoe

sabat wrote: »

Seymour Hersh with a far more credible account of what happened:

https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v37/n10/seymour-m.-hersh/the-killing-of-osama-bin-laden

It's a terrible piece, devoid of solid evidence and relied heavily on a few anonymous sources. It's been widely criticised, either Hersh is getting senile or he's being far too gullible with his "sources"
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/apr/18/the-killing-of-osama-bin-laden-review-seymour-m-hersh-abbottabad-syria-sarin-al-nusra-government
https://www.vox.com/2015/5/11/8584473/seymour-hersh-osama-bin-laden

JohnMcm1

Dohnjoe wrote: »

It's a terrible piece, devoid of solid evidence and relied heavily on a few anonymous sources. It's been widely criticised, either Hersh is getting senile or he's being far too gullible with his "sources"
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/apr/18/the-killing-of-osama-bin-laden-review-seymour-m-hersh-abbottabad-syria-sarin-al-nusra-government
https://www.vox.com/2015/5/11/8584473/seymour-hersh-osama-bin-laden

Seymour seems like a bit of a conspiracy nut to be fair, if he told me the sky was blue I'd still have to check for myself.

ShatterAlan

Dohnjoe wrote: »

When and where was he killed according to you and what's the evidence for that?

I think it was Fox News that reported he was killed on December 26th 2001, or reported someone as saying that he was.

Also seems quite improbable that he was in dire need of dialysis treatment but could survive without expert medical assistance for over a decade in the mountains of Afghanistan or Pakistan.

A lot of those videos that were released of him are very dubious too and that's according to inteligence personnel. Even the translations of what he is purported to have been saying have been lambasted.

ShatterAlan

JohnMcm1 wrote: »

Meant to post this in the original, saw it doing the rounds on social media.

I would say that those images are most certainly faked.

But I think I recall images of the Jenna and Barbara Bush twins dancing and clubbing in the South of France with Rafa Bin Laden, Osama's niece I believe.

ShatterAlan

Dohnjoe wrote: »

I've seen a lot of the footage, he doesn't "look different" to me. Do you have any evidence they are all doctored? if so, that's some very impressive double or CGI. Also managed to fool all of the world's intelligence agencies, and Al Qaeda themselves.



He declared war on the US in 1996. He was on the FBI's top ten most wanted list by 1998.

He was actually never on the FBI's list for 9/11 involvement.

JohnMcm1

ShatterAlan wrote: »

He was actually never on the FBI's list for 9/11 involvement.

What ****e are you talking?

ShatterAlan

Dohnjoe wrote: »

What videos?

They ditched his body in the sea because they didn't want to create a shrine

I believe you are referring to the Chinook crash in 2011 that killed 38. No one from the Bin Laden mission was killed in that attack, but members from their unit were killed.

That's a pretty poor excuse.

If Osama was as bad as he's made out to be then who would even go to this shrine? If anything people would go to desecrate it and that would be just fine and dandy for the propaganda machine.

It would have been just as easy to show evidence of his corpse much like they did with Uday and Qusay Hussein.

Speaking of he Husseins, old uncle Saddam is buried in the Al-Awja cemetary in his home town of Tikrit. Why was there no fear of creating a shrine to him?

All logic points to Osama having died or being killed years prior but his bogey-man legacy being used to ramp up the fear. They couldn't keep his ass alive forever so at some point they had to announce that he was killed and his body disposed of.

And what threat is a shrine anyway if one were even to materialise? Do shrines endow pilgrims with special supernatural powers that would render them in indefeatible enemy?

The reason why Jimmy Saville was exhumed and his rotten corpse moved to a secret location was at the behest of his family and not because legions of nonces would descend on the shrine and hold vigils in honour or the Great Paedo In Chief but because the thing would have been trashed and vandalised daily.

Guy:Incognito

ShatterAlan wrote: »

That's a pretty poor excuse.

If Osama was as bad as he's made out to be then who would even go to this shrine?.

Like how Hitler is universally hated and no one would attempt to go to anywhere he is associated with?

ShatterAlan

Dohnjoe wrote: »

It's a terrible photoshop job, so I am not sure I would trust your claims on footage of Bin Laden

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/feb/19/facebook-posts/dont-fall-these-altered-images-obama-clinton-and-r/

Speaking of fakery and staging, the entourage in the White House allegedly watching the Bin Laden hit was another joke. The footage cuts out "apparently". It's akin to those staged photos from the Oval Office showing a morose looking Obama having heard of news of a school massacre. He's dressed in his suit, looking pensive and pained. Chances are he was asleep or soaping his nuts in the bath or riding Michelle and was then told "Whenever you're ready Mr President we need you to scrub up and get into the Oval Office for a staged photo-shoot as if you were there all the time." :pac:

ShatterAlan

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Not really, they found him, killed him. The info is all out there.

Of course if you want mystery and suspicion, conspiracy sites cater for those demands by distorting the facts to manufacture a vague mystery out of it, the same way they do with everything.

What's vague is that they purported to have found him, killed him and then disposed of the body with no evidence that they did any of this.

You constantly demand evidence and sources from people but are quite happy to just take this story on faith without a shred of evidence and then go along with all the excuses that are tabled for not providing evidence such as the "shrine" thing or the usual "national security risk" chestnut.

Dohnjoe

ShatterAlan wrote: »

That's a pretty poor excuse.

If Osama was as bad as he's made out to be then who would even go to this shrine? If anything people would go to desecrate it and that would be just fine and dandy for the propaganda machine.

Is your random personal assumption. As mentioned, Trump also had Al Baghdadi buried at sea for the same reason, they didn't want to create some sort of shrine or mecca.

It would have been just as easy to show evidence of his corpse much like they did with Uday and Qusay Hussein.

They didn't want to publish the photos, nor did they have to.

Speaking of he Husseins, old uncle Saddam is buried in the Al-Awja cemetary in his home town of Tikrit. Why was there no fear of creating a shrine to him?

As mentioned, the Iraqi's controlled his death.

All logic points to Osama having died or being killed years prior but his bogey-man legacy being used to ramp up the fear. They couldn't keep his ass alive forever so at some point they had to announce that he was killed and his body disposed of.

You are claiming Bin Laden died earlier? when, where, how and evidence for that please..

The reason why Jimmy Saville was exhumed and his rotten corpse moved to a secret location was at the behest of his family and not because legions of nonces would descend on the shrine and hold vigils in honour or the Great Paedo In Chief but because the thing would have been trashed and vandalised daily.

A sexual predator has nothing to do with an international terrorist and terrorist ideology.