Bord Bia Audit

Anto_Meath

I have quite enough cattle, generally they will all follow a bucket and walk behind me. A few years ago I had dep of ag cross compliance inspection. The inspector said he would read the cattle tags in the field if I sprinkled a little meal on the ground. He dodged slowly into fields & read every one. Few months the BB guy came out to the field with him like he was been chased, spooked all the cattle & couldn't get one number. So if they are going to assess domicile cattle they would need to know how to handle cattle first.

hopeso

I wonder if this is another attempted blow to the suckler herd? If this docile cattle thing gets going, then the finisher will have no other option only to buy bucket reared dairy stock.

SuperTortoise

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120167865#Comment_120167865

It's always said if they want the suckler man gone then they will get rid of him, but forget about retirement payments, they'll simply bury him in red tape and make it a torture for him to continue.

The suckler man is'nt exiting the system fast enough for the governments liking, hence a whole bunch of new "schemes" with more bullshit rules to abide by.

Now i don't for a minute think the docile scoring for cattle will ever come into it simply because it's impossible to police it, funny enough it would benefit me if it did, i pour-on my cows in the field every year, no need for a crush!

tanko

It reminds me of the proposal during the boom to ban slurry spreading on Saturdays. I see it’s being reported that all the “stakeholders” including the useless parasites in the IFA have already agreed to this nonsense without any consultation as usual. Any suckler farmer giving money to the IFA needs to wake up and do it soon.

Base price

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120166275#Comment_120166275

"Wild cattle make tough beef, there’s a direct correlation."

As does stress, dehydration and aged/older cattle. You could have the quietest of cattle and they will have become stressed/dehydrated due to travelling time, condition of travelling vis a vie in with other stock, handling by lairage staff, smell in factory, etc, etc.

SuperTortoise

Got thinking over the past while, how did the 30 month rule come into play in the first place?

How was that ever allowed to happen?

Base price

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120167907#Comment_120167907

As I said previously - it's death by a thousand cuts to the suckler herd.

hopeso

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120167928#Comment_120167928

It was the time when BSE was a problem, as far as I recall

tanko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120167928#Comment_120167928

It was brought in because of BSE as a temporary measure. It was allowed to happen because of the IFA.

Base price

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120167928#Comment_120167928

At the time it was due to BSE. Cattle under 30 months were negligible for the disease.

Jjameson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120167920#Comment_120167920

all true. And all should be regulated by the label too if it’s to mean anything to what’s lies within the carton for the consumer and if the thing is to be of any use at all in real terms.

SuperTortoise

As an industry we just seem to take everything lying down, i was thinking about it when the rumours of 24 month cattle were making the rounds in the last few weeks.

Lime Tree Farm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120167479#Comment_120167479

Better stock up on signs

https://www.signsandsystems.ie/shop/product/2167-bull-warning-10-seconds

893bet

In fairness the processors would love any chance to not pay the QA to the average man.

As someone pointed out it would very much be a “pro dairy anti suckler move”.

Jjameson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120168876#Comment_120168876

The big 3 processors don’t take prime cattle from non qa herds. So they want you to pass the farm audit and fall down on age grade or movements.

In the establishment I regularly kill in the docility issues are coming from suckler bred Cattle mostly. Not exclusively before the stories start about “the worst animal I ever seen was a bucket fed Hereford”😵‍💫 It’s a conversation that needs to be had.

that someone can deliver feral animals that scarcely could be loaded, endangering themselves and everyone near them, and leaves beef (bruises and all) like the sole of a boot. It’s good food we are trying to produce here.

last spring while I was waiting to unload, a load of suckler cows couldn’t be got out of a lorry . Bar one which came out, changed her mind but rather than go back in to her comrades, cleared the ramp gate, got into an adjoining field and took almost a week with 3 of my friesians to be got back in. The owner wanted her shot in the field prior to my intervention.

3 months before a heifer flattened its owner (he escaped with bruises only) and wasn’t found till the spring. Everyone has a recent story nowadays. It’s as common as Tay.

Base price

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120169027#Comment_120169027

@Jjameson Your anti suckler bias is well documented at this stage.

Base price

I was just reading the new changes to the Bord Bia audits. The article is "Sweeping changes to Bord Bia audits on the way" and they are certainly sweeping. There is no indication if farmers will be paid for these addition requirements or penalised for not complying with them. Unfortunately the article is subscriber only but I will add the link.

https://www.farmersjournal.ie/sweeping-changes-to-bord-bia-audits-on-way-746066

893bet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120169027#Comment_120169027

For every story like that there is one of mine. Trying to scrape the house here by hand and it’s difficult.

Cows refusing to move out of the way as they are chewing cud. And and other won’t leave me alone as she wants to lick the sweat of me. Weanling sucking the end of my coat also. 😀

Common as coffee. You won’t get anything extra in the factory for quiet cattle. But they might dock the other fella if they get a chance.

Divide and conquer. I am alright jack.

Jjameson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120169322#Comment_120169322

He or she should be docked.

I’m all right because I make myself all right? As you will be. The stories of difficulties from quiet cattle resulting in personal injury or black carcass beef are rare enough. I’ve never heard of one and I see a lot of coffee.

if Enoch Burke was a suckler farmer…..

893bet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120169340#Comment_120169340

If he was one the rest of his family are running what ever system you are running…..😏

Jjameson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120169349#Comment_120169349

they are all on the same hymn sheet. Everyone is anti and out to get them no matter how logically they try explain themselves to them.

stockmanship should result in Cattle that are safe for any competent person to handle. If I’m wrong then sign me in please somebody because I honestly can’t see how the hell I can be.

Hard Knocks

Like lots of farmers I’ve been on lots of farms and lots of farmers have been here. Generally everyone’s cattle are as quiet as lambs with their owner. Sadly allot of farms are 1 person farms. When a stranger comes the cattle get spooked as generally to the cattle a second person means they’re going to get prodded. Bringing someone (use to cattle) in for a walk every so often does wonders

893bet

Neighbour has a nice Saler herd! But…..

I squeeze a few from him that are early or late calvers that vet doesn’t do.

They do be lively fellas usually……..

mr.stonewall

On the loading side, I find the Suckler bred stock are the hardest to load on their final day. The issue is very simple, it's the first time they have seen a ramp. The dairy bred are just easier for the simple fact the have seen a ramp, twice in their life, coming into the farm and moving out the field as calves for the first time.

Cattle are creatures if habit, put something new into the equation and it can spook them

Jjameson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120172451#Comment_120172451

When we were double sucking here years ago the cows were baled up and were mostly close enough to pets, then when we moved to single sucking there was never a problem. The herd teaches the herd. We never had a problem home bred animal. Ever. It’s not the animals, it’s the how. A lot of suckler bred cattle went through Carnew mart yesterday and the problem cases came from the same herds they always do. This is a conversation that needs to be had.

intensive sucking farms are often short of help, quad bikes and herding is akin to managing antelope in the African plains!

mr.stonewall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120172521#Comment_120172521

Nailed it on the head. Cattle over time have been domesticated by use. This has involved human interaction on differing level. The more human interaction the better and in positive manner. This maybe moving to a new paddock, A shake of meal etc.

Part time farming and larger herds reduces this time. But it is still no excuse to spending even 5 mins standing around your cattle when herding. Letting 20 cattle roam 60 acres for the summer or herding from the seat of the landcruiser is not helping.

The lack of help is not the issue. Most of this can be sorted simply by good handing facilities and paddocks. By good handling facilities, I mean designed with the animal at the centre. Take a look at the intakes in ABP lairages. The spent money on getting Temple Grandin to input

Introducing new people to stock is also important. The 6 and 4 yr old love to get out and see stock. This more interaction for the stock. Now it usually with the dairy bred calves, with rearing stage and often moving from paddock to paddock. Often in the summer, I would take them herding with me and pick and choose the stock they see in the field. Hold the hands and walk thru the paddock. Cattle will get more and more used to people. Needless to say herd takes 2-3 times longer but the benefits are worth it, personally and on the stock. We have to pick and choose the opportunities that we can introduce new people.

For most people taking 5 mins a day to stand in field with their stock will have huge benefits on the stock but also for the farmers wellbeing

Rusheseverywhere

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120172291#Comment_120172291

That is absolutely spot on.

Dunedin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120169027#Comment_120169027

My planner was on the farm last year to do the acres plan. I was at work so he was on his own. He said it took him twice as long as normal as the cattle kept following him around licking him.

quiet or wild animals are largely linked to the farmer themselves.

Sugarbowl

There’s an article on Agriland that it’s not fair to make suckler farmers do the bord bia audit to get acceptance to the new scheme. I think I’ll wait for the scheme to be announced before I apply for BB. I would prefer to avoid it if I could….

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/suckler-efficiency-scheme-must-be-accessible-by-all-farmers/

ABitofsense

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120173832#Comment_120173832

I'm doing the same. Going to wait & see if the criteria change. Most of the other criteria I don't mind as much