Munster vs Toulouse, Sat 3rd April 3:00pm; BT Sport 3

AbusesToilets

Munster aren't good at taking advantage of line breaks. DuPont is a great bastion for how they ought to be playing. DDA and to a lesser extent Farrell, are good at making an initial bust. They're usually looking for the pass when they do, to no no avail most of the time.

thomond2006

Munster need to consider Carbery's role in the defence. He's been run over a lot in the last two weeks. Perhaps look to put Haley defending at 10 on set plays.

breezy1985

JimmyCorkhill wrote: »

Yes I do, genuinely. Not good enough to win Champions Cup & Leinster comfortably have their number in Pro 14

Losing Stander now and replacing with JOD is weakening them.

POM shouldnt have got his 2 yr extension,is on the wane. Missing another strong prop.

Farrell not good enough in centre.

Yes to the first part. Would have a few more league trophies if they were not up against an amazing Leinster side and are behind the really big European sides including Leinster and Toulouse. Its frustrating because Munster are 2nd best or semi final level every year but still far off a trophy every season

Stander will be a loss and nothing can be done there regardless of any realistic replacement

Peter was definitely going to get a new contract. I'm glad he did and win lose or draw I would say most Munster fans agree. I love seeing him on the pitch (when he doesn't get sent off it) and at the end of the day it's guys like POM make you give a s*** about following sport

Buer

theVersatile wrote: »

If Coombes isn't capped in the Autumn I'm joining the Niallof Andy Farrell Train Of Despisement

He's a serious prospect and we don't produce physical specimens like him very often that has the combination of size and athleticism.

I posted a couple of months ago that I reckoned the reason he was released from the Irish camp was his defensive showings though. He tends to miss tackles every week. I didn't get to see much of today's match but I see he is down for another three today. If he's going to force his way into the test 23, he will have to improve that aspect significantly.

He already looks near test quality in most other aspects and I've no doubt he's going to collect a fair few caps over the next decade.

Interested Observer

thomond2006 wrote: »

Munster need to consider Carbery's role in the defence. He's been run over a lot in the last two weeks. Perhaps look to put Haley defending at 10 on set plays.

I heard Madigan on some podcast or other after the Leinster game and he was saying "tackle selection" to use his words can take a while to come back if you haven't played for a long time. Carbery was out for a full year and he might just be half a second slow in this area. He was never a physical defender for Leinster but he made his tackles.



Agree on the comments on Coombes, he's class.

awec

Interested Observer wrote: »

I heard Madigan on some podcast or other after the Leinster game and he was saying "tackle selection" to use his words can take a while to come back if you haven't played for a long time. Carbery was out for a full year and he might just be half a second slow in this area. He was never a physical defender for Leinster but he made his tackles.



Agree on the comments on Coombes, he's class.

He wasn't slow to make tackles. Players are just running over the top of him. He's a speedbump.

It was Marchand vs Carbery for Marchand's try today. Carbery may as well not have been there but it's also a bit of a failure of the system if he's having to make tackles like this. Carbery is not a big unit, he's going to have a really hard time stopping anything hefty coming down his channel hard.

IMO he needs to be put somewhere out of the way in defence.

ElisaAtWar

thomond2006 wrote: »

Munster need to consider Carbery's role in the defence. He's been run over a lot in the last two weeks. Perhaps look to put Haley defending at 10 on set plays.

Just no. Haley is so lacking that's just pure bonkers

Burkie1203

awec wrote: »

He wasn't slow to make tackles. Players are just running over the top of him. He's a speedbump.

It was Marchand vs Carbery for Marchand's try today. Carbery may as well not have been there but it's also a bit of a failure of the system if he's having to make tackles like this. Carbery is not a big unit, he's going to have a really hard time stopping anything hefty coming down his channel hard.

IMO he needs to be put somewhere out of the way in defence.

Dunno why they don't use Farrell or DDA in that scenario

Walnut Stock

I think that every time I see Dupont play he runs that ‘trail’ line and it pays dividends with tries and many of them. I’ve seen Mc Grath do the same for Leinster and it’s a very good weapon in attack. So I just wonder why Munster don’t seem to use the tactic when it’s a proven success.
There’s a lot about Munster that we’d all like to see but we’ve been crying out for it for some years but we never seem to get there.
The difference between the Leinster and Toulouse games was night and day. Did Leinster completely dominate us up front and force us to live off scraps and what did we do different to have better success against a bigger Toulouse pack.
It’s all a mystery with Munster at the moment.

sebdavis

awec wrote: »

He wasn't slow to make tackles. Players are just running over the top of him. He's a speedbump.

It was Marchand vs Carbery for Marchand's try today. Carbery may as well not have been there but it's also a bit of a failure of the system if he's having to make tackles like this. Carbery is not a big unit, he's going to have a really hard time stopping anything hefty coming down his channel hard.

IMO he needs to be put somewhere out of the way in defence.

15?

Covering the back field with chip kicks etc?

Interested Observer

Walnut Stock wrote: »

I think that every time I see Dupont play he runs that ‘trail’ line and it pays dividends with tries and many of them. I’ve seen Mc Grath do the same for Leinster and it’s a very good weapon in attack. So I just wonder why Munster don’t seem to use the tactic when it’s a proven success.
There’s a lot about Munster that we’d all like to see but we’ve been crying out for it for some years but we never seem to get there.
The difference between the Leinster and Toulouse games was night and day. Did Leinster completely dominate us up front and force us to live off scraps and what did we do different to have better success against a bigger Toulouse pack.
It’s all a mystery with Munster at the moment.

Toulouse play a much less risk averse type of rugby than Leinster, they are going to make mistakes and you will get the ball back from them.

Buer

Walnut Stock wrote: »

Did Leinster completely dominate us up front and force us to live off scraps and what did we do different to have better success against a bigger Toulouse pack.
It’s all a mystery with Munster at the moment.

Toulouse and Leinster play extremely different styles. Toulouse have a big pack but they don't play a tight game. Their forwards are used to carry at soft shoulders away from the ruck and move the ball on at times. They play an extremely open style. Aside from set pieces or open field play from deep/turnovers, Leinster play a much tighter, risk adverse game based on work rate and cohesion up front. It's far more methodical.

Toulouse are happy to get into an all out punch/counter punch game because they know they will generally win at it. It was very similar to how they beat Ulster before Christmas in Belfast. One score in it at the end, 7 tries in total. Get into that type of game with them and you'll lose.

To beat Toulouse, you need to keep them away from the ball and defend excellently. I see very little mention of the fact that Munster missed 32 tackles after the 35 missed last week and it's the same players/areas missing tackles again. If Munster sort that out, it's a huge step to silverware.

prawnsambo

Walnut Stock wrote: »

I think that every time I see Dupont play he runs that ‘trail’ line and it pays dividends with tries and many of them. I’ve seen Mc Grath do the same for Leinster and it’s a very good weapon in attack. So I just wonder why Munster don’t seem to use the tactic when it’s a proven success.

JGP does it as well. It's pretty much a standard for scrum halves these days. Get the ball away from the ruck and then run a line through the defence and follow the ball. Either you're in place for a line break or ready for the next breakdown.

Interested Observer

Casey is the type of SH who would do it as well, if he can get any gametime in these sorts of games.

Former Former Former

So I was pretty confident of a Munster win and with 20 mins to go I would have bet the house on it, but Toulouse had an extra gear that I didn't expect them to have.

I know Toulouse came out firing after half time but did Munster go into their shells a bit? We didn't see the same attacking ambition in the second half at all. DDA was a microcosm of that, looked great in the first half and completely vanished in the second.

There were some nice glimpses of what Carbery might bring in attack but very worrying signs in defence.

A great game to watch, and ultimately the better team won.

[Deleted User]

ElisaAtWar wrote: »

Just no. Haley is so lacking that's just pure bonkers

Baille made a carry yesterday into the Munster 22 and despite a decent run up Haley managed to stop him by himself without giving up any gainline. Not many backs around that have that level of power / technique.

Carbery's issue isn't his positioning, he's just getting run over by forwards and backs and it was problematic enough that he was subbed early yesterday. The issue now is that every time he plays he will be targeted.

Yeah_Right

Venjur wrote: »

Baille made a carry yesterday into the Munster 22 and despite a decent run up Haley managed to stop him by himself without giving up any gainline. Not many backs around that have that level of power / technique.

Carbery's issue isn't his positioning, he's just getting run over by forwards and backs and it was problematic enough that he was subbed early yesterday. The issue now is that every time he plays he will be targeted.

I noticed during phase play he seemed to be defending out wide but from first phase he was in the 10 channel. You can't fault his courage but he was barely a speed bump when trying to tackle front on. I think he should either defend at fullback or in a sweeper role behind the front line.

AbusesToilets

Venjur wrote: »

Baille made a carry yesterday into the Munster 22 and despite a decent run up Haley managed to stop him by himself without giving up any gainline. Not many backs around that have that level of power / technique.

Carbery's issue isn't his positioning, he's just getting run over by forwards and backs and it was problematic enough that he was subbed early yesterday. The issue now is that every time he plays he will be targeted.

I think the simple truth is he's better as FB than he is as an OH. Suits him better in defense, and allows him the time on the ball in attack.

letowski

Former Former Former wrote: »

So I was pretty confident of a Munster win and with 20 mins to go I would have bet the house on it, but Toulouse had an extra gear that I didn't expect them to have.

I know Toulouse came out firing after half time but did Munster go into their shells a bit? We didn't see the same attacking ambition in the second half at all. DDA was a microcosm of that, looked great in the first half and completely vanished in the second.

There were some nice glimpses of what Carbery might bring in attack but very worrying signs in defence.

A great game to watch, and ultimately the better team won.

I think Toulouse power game in the second half really started to take hold of Munster. Being able to win the collisions allowed them to dictate the game in the second half. They also got great impact off their bench too. Bringing on a beast like Joe Tekori. I think I mentioned this before, but there are similarities to the Leinster game where Munster's tight 5 and bench struggled in the tight in the second half, we need more quality there. BOD made a good point in the best way to counteract the power game is to get poaches, but our two best players at this, Beirne and POM, were not on the field.

But as you said, ultimately Toulouse are just better than us. No shame, they're an excellent side and Munster gave them a good game.

Richie_Rich89

Carbery's defence might still be an issue at fullback. Adam Byrne and him were cut open by the Scarlets in the league semi in 2017. Maybe it was mostly Byrne, but I seem to remember Carbery not covering himself in glory either.

lawred2

AbusesToilets wrote: »

I think the simple truth is he's better as FB than he is as an OH. Suits him better in defense, and allows him the time on the ball in attack.

Unfortunate direction the game will take if the most creative players also have to be groks..

What is it France do to ensure the likes of Ntamack and Jalibert don't get run over?

phog

This thread is more depressing than the game, why do certain posters bother watching a game just to be negative nellies when posting here. Same posters on match threads, Munster this, Munster that, CJ this, CJ that, etc, etc, they really cant have much going on in their lives.

Anyway rant over - I thought we were very good on Saturday, lucky not to have picked up two more cards but unlucky with some of the calls especially in the lead up for two of their trys. Toulouse killed as much ball as Murray did so they avoided a card there too so Earls' card is the only one in dispute really. How did Barnes of all refs let that go? Despite what some posters here think Farrell was cared for a trip and not because of a number of penalties by Munster in the 22.

Losing Beirne was a huge loss for us and Joey wasn't great in defence but we could still have won unfortunately coughing up that score after halftime was really the killer blow.

sydthebeat

lawred2 wrote: »

Unfortunate direction the game will take if the most creative players also have to be groks..

What is it France do to ensure the likes of Ntamack and Jalibert don't get run over?

i have to ask... whats a "grok" ??