Elisa O'Donovan reports mass goers to gardai

stefanovich

https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/621445/gardai-clear-worshippers-who-listening-to-masses-outside-limerick-churches.html

Local councillor Elisa O'Donovan, who lives in the area, had alerted officers to the assembly in front of the O'Connell monument where the Institute of Christ the King is located.

Apparently women were feeling intimidated by the people praying.

Confirming she had contacted the gardai, she wrote on Twitter: “Every Sunday, I receive contact from residents regarding the gathering of over 60 people... They film and intimidate local people while gathering illegally.”

Anyone know more about this? The people pictured seem to be socially distancing and outside. Have the gardai nothing better to do? Opinions?

Cossax

stefanovich wrote: »

https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/621445/gardai-clear-worshippers-who-listening-to-masses-outside-limerick-churches.html



Apparently women were feeling intimidated by the people praying.



Anyone know more about this? The people pictured seem to be socially distancing and outside. Have the gardai nothing better to do? Opinions?

A poster in the Covid thread said there was very little or no social distancing or mask wearing going on there.

I think it's a reasonable use of garda time during a level 5 lockdown myself but I do think there needs to be more consistency - everyone can gather outside or no one can, full stop.

stefanovich

Cossax wrote: »

A poster in the Covid thread said there was very little or no social distancing or mask wearing going on there.

I think it's a reasonable use of garda time during a level 5 lockdown myself but I do think there needs to be more consistency - everyone can gather outside or no one can, full stop.

The image in the article would suggest otherwise.

Cossax

stefanovich wrote: »

The image in the article would suggest otherwise.

sioda wrote: »

sioda wrote: »

So going down town this morning was quite surprised to see a group of parisheners praying outside the old Jesuit church on o connell avenue no social distance and not masking. Must have been at least 30 people there.

Town was the busiest I've seen on a Sunday for a while

So this happened again but see the guards were called this time.

https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/621445/gardai-clear-worshippers-who-listening-to-masses-outside-limerick-churches.html

Here's a Boardie posting about it on more than one occasion.
A single picture, when the gardai are there, from the Limerick Leader of all places, is hardly authoritative.

breezy1985

The church should not be holding events either inside our out. We all want our particular sport or hobby to be exempt but thems the rules and the church should be made stop.

Amazing how all the curtain twitchers on the Limerick forum who have been crying about the numbers outside cafes, shops and housing estates are suddenly quite when holy mother church is involved

stefanovich

breezy1985 wrote: »

The church should not be holding events either inside our out. We all want our particular sport or hobby to be exempt but thems the rules and the church should be made stop.

Amazing how all the curtain twitchers on the Limerick forum who have been crying about the numbers outside cafes, shops and housing estates are suddenly quite when holy mother church is involved

I think the church, especially for older people who are isolated or those who have lost relatives, is an essential comfort.

It's outside, surely it can be accommodated if people mask up and keep their distance.

Cossax

stefanovich wrote: »

I think the church, especially for older people who are isolated or those who have lost relatives, is an essential comfort.

It's outside, surely it can be accommodated if people mask up and keep their distance.

It is clearly not an essential to attend in person and alternatives are available online or on tv and quite possibly on the radio also.

phog

The church should not be organising a gathering like this but Elisa herself has attended a street gathering last year who were no more socially distancing than those at this Mass. Why report one and attend the other?

She did similar recently when she actively sought out and reported one cafe that was breaking regulations but ignored others doing similar.

The Independent councillor said she had been filmed on a number of occasions and “intimidated” while asking them to move along

What authority has she to do that? She then cries victim when she says they recorded her and intimidated her.

She also turned down the offer to discuss this on Live95 with another elected representative.

stefanovich

Cossax wrote: »

It is clearly not an essential to attend in person and alternatives are available online or on tv and quite possibly on the radio also.

I'm sorry - but it's totally not the same. For many the church is a place of sanctuary and solidarity with their fellow worshippers is one of the primary sources of comfort.

breezy1985

stefanovich wrote: »

I'm sorry - but it's totally not the same. For many the church is a place of sanctuary and solidarity with their fellow worshippers is one of the primary sources of comfort.

For many young people especially ones who live alone or don't live with their partners social gatherings like pubs, concerts and sports are their primary source of comfort, sanctuary and solidarity. I know old people who only ever see their friends down the pub and have been without that comfort for a year now.

Why does the church continue to think it is special ?

MrStuffins

stefanovich wrote: »

I'm sorry - but it's totally not the same. For many the church is a place of sanctuary and solidarity with their fellow worshippers is one of the primary sources of comfort.

Comfort my ar*e!

We're in the middle of a pandemic and people are being asked not to congregate.

Everyone has their own personal comforts. Kids find comfort in organised sports. Adults find comfort in the gym. Some find comfort in going to the pub. Others find comfort at concerts.

One of the beauties of having religion as your comfort is that it can be practiced from the comfort of your own home.

Just saying "Oh, but some people find comfort in it" is not a good enough reason to allow people to spread Covid.

stefanovich

stefanovich wrote: »

I'm sorry - but it's totally not the same. For many the church is a place of sanctuary and solidarity with their fellow worshippers is one of the primary sources of comfort.

For many the PUB is a place of sanctuary and solidarity with their fellow BOOZEHOUNDS is one of the primary sources of comfort

For many the GOLF COURSE is a place of sanctuary and solidarity with their fellow GOLFERS is one of the primary sources of comfort

For many THEIR PARENTS' HOUSE is a place of sanctuary and solidarity with their FAMILY is one of the primary sources of comfort

You can apply that logic to anything, really, doesn't change the fact that it is a) banned and b) non-essential.

Odelay

stefanovich wrote: »

I'm sorry - but it's totally not the same. For many the church is a place of sanctuary and solidarity with their fellow worshippers is one of the primary sources of comfort.

The pub is my place of sanctuary and solidarity with my fellow menfolk is one of the primary sources of comfort......

sioda

As the one who posted about it originally it's the one rule for one crowd one for another that bothered me. I can tell you on the times I passed there was no social distancing and little mask wearing.

At least people queueing for coffee or food are in my experience masked and where possible distanced.

breezy1985

Odelay wrote: »

The pub is my place of sanctuary and solidarity with my fellow menfolk is one of the primary sources of comfort......

After a year of lockdown I could really do with going to the pub to seek "sanctuary" with some womenfolk

Insect Overlord

I don't agree with all of Eliza's campaigns or public communications (though I am a big fan of her work with regard to cycling and swimming in the city) but in this case I'm very much on her side. The gatherings should not be happening at the moment. There is also, apparently, an unfortunate cross-section of some of these worshippers and some folks of rather out-dated social/political leanings.

Loafing Oaf

stefanovich wrote: »

It's outside, surely it can be accommodated if people mask up and keep their distance.

So we can all make up our own rules about how to conduct ourselves during the pandemic?

stefanovich

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

So we can all make up our own rules about how to conduct ourselves during the pandemic?

Social distanced and keeping apart - they would be pretty much keeping with the rules. I am saying the rules could be altered to allow them to do it safely.

stefanovich

Insect Overlord wrote: »

I don't agree with all of Eliza's campaigns or public communications (though I am a big fan of her work with regard to cycling and swimming in the city) but in this case I'm very much on her side. The gatherings should not be happening at the moment. There is also, apparently, an unfortunate cross-section of some of these worshippers and some folks of rather out-dated social/political leanings.

I'm guessing the fact that it was a religious service singled them out to Eliza as worthy of her attention.

Insect Overlord

stefanovich wrote: »

I'm guessing the fact that it was a religious service singled them out to Eliza as worthy of her attention.

Or, more likely, the fact that it was a large group of people standing together on a busy central street.

Fair play to the cops I hope they get medals for bravery.

From what I can see in that picture Iv seen bigger crowds outside coffee shops on sunny Sundays lately.

breezy1985

stefanovich wrote: »

I'm guessing the fact that it was a religious service singled them out to Eliza as worthy of her attention.

If I was a local councilor or garda I would be keeping a close eye on the catholic church. Things get out of hand very quickly when you give them an inch

phog

Photos of the event the councillor attended last year, in the midst of the original lockdown

Limerick91

I wonder was she complaining about the BLM protest to the Gardai as well

phog

Limerick91 wrote: »

I wonder was she complaining about the BLM protest to the Gardai as well

If she was she certainly take to Twitter to announce her "good" deed.

stefanovich

Interesting and relevant opinion piece in the journal:

https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/level-5-religious-services-5397140-Apr2021/

Opinion: 'In legal terms, there is no prohibition on attending or organising religious services'"

breezy1985

phog wrote: »

Photos of the event the councillor attended last year, in the midst of the original lockdown

What is that. Is it a protest or something

stefanovich

breezy1985 wrote: »

What is that. Is it a protest or something

They all sat out in the street and blocked traffic for a while to make Limerick more liveable.

Not a protest per se. Just a congregation of lefties.

phog

breezy1985 wrote: »

What is that. Is it a protest or something

A group of people decided to block a section of Catherine St in Limerick last year, the wanted more space during the lockdown. A number of local elected representatives attended, Elisa being one. They obviously didn't adhere to then government guidelines but from what i can gather Elisa didn't report this to the Gardai at the time.


This "party" was discussed and was defended by a few posters in the Covid Thread at the time.

yop

stefanovich wrote: »

They all sat out in the street and blocked traffic for a while to make Limerick more liveable.

Not a protest per se. Just a congregation of lefties.

Was that during the last lockdown definitely? If it is then she has some odd set of standards.

Xterminator

Photos of the event the councillor attended last year, in the midst of the original lockdown

so if we see a neighbour break covid rule then it gives us all a free pass??
Or she shouldnt/couldnt learn from past mistakes??

Do you think if someone broke covid rules once, (and i think that would include most of ireland) does that disqualify them from reporting illegal gatherings/rule breaking?

I mean clearly she was right to call them out. If you are worried that she is a hypocrite, fair enough - but it doesn't give a free pass to the rule breakers.

MrStuffins

Limerick91 wrote: »

I wonder was she complaining about the BLM protest to the Gardai as well

Wow, i've seen BLM Whataboutery pop up in some strange places, but this is amazing!

breezy1985

yop wrote: »

Was that during the last lockdown definitely? If it is then she has some odd set of standards.

10 months ago according to the link above. I can't keep with lockdowns so God knows what the guidelines were but a safety gathering in a pandemic seems daft and counter productive

stefanovich

Xterminator wrote: »

so if we see a neighbour break covid rule then it gives us all a free pass??
Or she shouldnt/couldnt learn from past mistakes??

Do you think if someone broke covid rules once, (and i think that would include most of ireland) does that disqualify them from reporting illegal gatherings/rule breaking?

I mean clearly she was right to call them out. If you are worried that she is a hypocrite, fair enough - but it doesn't give a free pass to the rule breakers.

She is a hypocrite. And I'd hazard she singled out the Church service because she considers them her ideological enemy. Votes from her fellow abortion advocates is the prize?

Guy:Incognito

stefanovich wrote: »

Social distanced and keeping apart - they would be pretty much keeping with the rules. I am saying the rules could be altered to allow them to do it safely.

Well then the rules should be altered to let me do what I want too.

stefanovich

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Well then the rules should be altered to let me do what I want too.

It's seemingly unclear whether legally any rules were broken. Maybe it was the gardai who broke the rules by violating their constitutional rights.

MrStuffins

stefanovich wrote: »

She is a hypocrite.?

Ok, let's say she is a hypocrite?

So what? What are you want to happen exactly?

You want Mass Goers to be exempt from the rules?

You want everyone who finds "comfort" to be exempt from the rules?

You want no rules at all?

Be more specific.

breezy1985

stefanovich wrote: »

She is a hypocrite. And I'd hazard she singled out the Church service because she considers them her ideological enemy. Votes from her fellow abortion advocates is the prize?

I wouldn't blame any woman for seeing the church as the ideological enemy given that the church wants them out of the workforce and told them to shut up and do there wifely duties when they were being beaten and raped by their husbands

stefanovich

breezy1985 wrote: »

I wouldn't blame any woman for seeing the church as the ideological enemy given that the church wants them out of the workforce and told them to shut up and do there wifely duties when they were being beaten and raped by their husbands

So you are okay with discrimination as long as it only affects those you dislike or disagree with?

stefanovich

MrStuffins wrote: »

Ok, let's say she is a hypocrite?

So what? What are you want to happen exactly?

You want Mass Goers to be exempt from the rules?

You want everyone who finds "comfort" to be exempt from the rules?

You want no rules at all?

Be more specific.

I'd rather we didn't have hypocrites in public office.

How about making the rules clear for a start. Is what they did unlawful?

Daisies

My understanding is that Elisa reported it because a number of people reported being heckled, intimidated and recorded while they were trying to walk down O'Connell Avenue. There is no space to walk on the path while there is a service on going

afro man

Deleted User wrote: »

For many the PUB is a place of sanctuary and solidarity with their fellow BOOZEHOUNDS is one of the primary sources of comfort

For many the GOLF COURSE is a place of sanctuary and solidarity with their fellow GOLFERS is one of the primary sources of comfort

For many THEIR PARENTS' HOUSE is a place of sanctuary and solidarity with their FAMILY is one of the primary sources of comfort

You can apply that logic to anything, really, doesn't change the fact that it is a) banned and b) non-essential.

Shifty
how come the same rules don't apply to other Religous Communites
why are the Garda not so Quick to visit and close down ??

MrStuffins

stefanovich wrote: »

I'd rather we didn't have hypocrites in public office.

How about making the rules clear for a start. Is what they did unlawful?

1) Everyone's with you there. Nobody wants hypocrisy. So nobody will argue with you there.

2) The rules are clear. Very clear. Are you having trouble understanding them?

phog

yop wrote: »

Was that during the last lockdown definitely? If it is then she has some odd set of standards.

It was during the initial lockdown (June 2020).

Daisies wrote: »

My understanding is that Elisa reported it because a number of people reported being heckled, intimidated and recorded while they were trying to walk down O'Connell Avenue. There is no space to walk on the path while there is a service on going

Why would mass goers record people passing them by? I've passed them on 3 or 4 occasions and I can't say we ever interacted and certainly I never saw any of them recording me.

breezy1985

stefanovich wrote: »

So you are okay with discrimination as long as it only affects those you dislike or disagree with?

Where did I say anything about discrimination. As much as I don't like people holding illegal mass on O'Connell Ave. I would not rat them out.

What I did say in the post you replied to was I don't blame any woman for hating the church

phog

breezy1985 wrote: »

I wouldn't blame any woman for seeing the church as the ideological enemy given that the church wants them out of the workforce and told them to shut up and do there wifely duties when they were being beaten and raped by their husbands

You obviously have an issue with the catholic church, others don't and that's free choice but that shouldn't be the deciding factor on whether a group of people should or shouldn't gather in a public space.

MrStuffins

phog wrote: »

You obviously have an issue with the catholic church, others don't and that's free choice but that shouldn't be the deciding factor on whether a group of people should or shouldn't gather in a public space.

Good point.

Do you agree with the OP when they suggest that the Church should be exempt for the rules in the very same way?

breezy1985

phog wrote: »

You obviously have an issue with the catholic church, others don't and that's free choice but that shouldn't be the deciding factor on whether a group of people should or shouldn't gather in a public space.

I do hate the church. I don't know how anyone can defend series rapists

The deciding factor is the law which they broke how do you not understand that. It's not a free choice it's the law

rightmove

Limerick91 wrote: »

I wonder was she complaining about the BLM protest to the Gardai as well

Doubt it since its not about logic , its about virtue!!!

phog

Xterminator wrote: »

so if we see a neighbour break covid rule then it gives us all a free pass??
Or she shouldnt/couldnt learn from past mistakes??

Do you think if someone broke covid rules once, (and i think that would include most of ireland) does that disqualify them from reporting illegal gatherings/rule breaking?

I mean clearly she was right to call them out. If you are worried that she is a hypocrite, fair enough - but it doesn't give a free pass to the rule breakers.

She reported SPAR for having seating available for patrons during the last lockdown but ignored a coffee shop she herself uses that had seats outside their premises.

She attends one mass gathering but reports another mass gathering.

She might well be learning from her own mistakes but imho she's picking and choosing who's breaking regulations and reporting only those that are outside her clique.

Imho, If as an elected rep you're going to start to publicly report people for breaking regulations then you yourself should be squeaky clean.

phog

MrStuffins wrote: »

Good point.

Do you agree with the OP when they suggest that the Church should be exempt for the rules in the very same way?

Why ask me that? Read my post here and see for yourself what I've siad about the gathering.

breezy1985 wrote: »

I do hate the church. I don't know how anyone can defend series rapists

That's for another thread unless you want to use this one for your own agenda.

The deciding factor is the law which they broke how do you not understand that. It's not a free choice it's the law

Which law are you referring to here? If it's the rapist stuff that you want to discuss then don't bother replying as I've no issue in discussing the catholic church.