Thierry Henry quits social media until companies act on racism and bullying

a chuisle

Did a quick search on Boards and was surprised to see no thread on this topic.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/football/2021/mar/26/thierry-henry-quits-social-media-until-companies-act-on-racism-and-bullying

Please move if there is a thread already discussing this topic. Used to follow Henry at Arsenal and on social media and sad to see him go for these reasons.

Skill Magill

BanditLuke

No loss. An incredibly boring and uncharismatic person.

olestoepoke

Le cheat

riffmongous

Interesting story from Germany recently on what is possible there now, 3000 euro fine for calling someone scum

In Germany, insults and abusive language on social media following a female hunter’s Facebook post led to severe consequences under criminal and civil law and more than 50 convictions.
Anyone on social media knows that verbal derailments have become the norm rather than the exception. Factual presentation of dissenting opinions is more often than not replaced by insults, cursing and threats of harm. But, in Germany at least, the Internet is no longer a legal vacuum—there, Web posters don’t have to put up with online abuse anymore.
A female hunter who calls herself Waidfräulein, “young lady of the forest,” posted the story and a photo of a successful late-winter fox hunt on Facebook in March 2018. Within a few hours, it had attracted more than 2,000 hateful comments and insults.
Waidfräulein didn’t take the mostly anonymous insults lying down. Assisted by the DJV, the Deutscher Jagdverband, German Hunting Association, and lawyer Dr. Heiko Granzin, she took legal action. Apart from the consequences under German law, she filed for damages and injunctive relief.
A particular hurdle had to be overcome in the process. German law aside, the European headquarters of Facebook are in Dublin, and only Ireland’s public prosecutor’s office can demand IP addresses and names in the course of a criminal investigation into Facebook. As it happened, the Irish prosecutor took the matter seriously and did seek the names and IP addresses of the offenders, some of whom posted under pseudonyms.
German media, including the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung, BILD-Zeitung, Der Spiegel and others, reported extensively on the matter. And now, two and a half years later, Waidfräulein’s case has come to a close and the people who used abusive language must pay. “In addition to declarations of cease and desist, there were over a dozen criminal and civil convictions,” said the German Hunting Association. (Further proceedings are ongoing.)
The legal consequences in more than 50 cases included, among other things, penalty orders, judgments, compensation for pain and suffering, and cease and desist statements. Hate commentators will pay heavy fines and costs. One guilty party, who used a derogatory term for the female sexual organ, has to fork out €3,800 ($4,675) in court costs, legal expenses and compensation. Derogatory terms like Miststück (loosely, bitch) and Abschaum (scum) earned abusers penalties of €3,300 each. Others have to make payments of between €1,000 and €2,000.
Last June, the German Bundestag (parliament) passed a law against right-wing extremism and hate crimes; insults on social media will be punished severely—including imprisonment of up to two years. “We advise all hunters affected by Internet hate speech: Secure evidence and report it,” said DJV President Volker Böhning. “It takes a lot of patience, but Internet criminals have to learn that the Web is not a legal vacuum.”
Dr. Heiko Granzin, a specialist in hunting and agricultural law, has represented victims of cybercrime for years. He says that calling a hunter “sick” or an “impulsive murderer” is not covered by normal freedom of expression and that threats to life and health are criminal offenses that will prompt the public prosecutor to intervene.
Meticulous evidence is important, Granzin added. This means taking screenshots of the offensive posts and securing the context of the discussion and the perpetrator’s profile (try to verify whether it is real or fake). Proceed like a detective—save all the perpetrator’s entries and search the Internet for email addresses, photos, place of employment and residence and the like. Many particularly active hunting opponents can be found on certain forums and the websites of anti-hunting organizations. In case of a criminal offense or threat, such as a post that a hunter “should be killed,” file a complaint with the police. Even those who “like” such a post are acting illegally. Often, both civil and criminal laws are being broken.

whisky_galore

Skill Magill wrote: »

He did what Cromwell failed to achieve.

Nothing will change until social media companies are treated as public utilities.


The Germans, on the other hand, are away with the fairies.

JustAThought

riffmongous wrote: »

Interesting story from Germany recently on what is possible there now, 3000 euro fine for calling someone scum

Meanwhile in Ireland rapists walk free with suspended sentences, recidivist criminals with 100+ convictions prey on elderly women and take their lifes sayings of 120,000 but are still walking the streets, and a 22 yo who was already barred from driving and serving a sentence for dangerous driving got into a car and killed 2 friends and put another in a wheelchair for life - he’s still out there too. Along with the poor convicted murdered and rapist who was working as a cannabis grower but the judge said it wasn’t he poor mans fault as ge had no choice because he hadn’t a PTRB contract on the growhouse. You couldn’t make this s*** up.

No doubt germany had a handle on their criminals scum, traveling gang warfare in the population in the countryside and rapists before they moved on?

Isn’t Thierre Henry that dishonest football player who likes to cheat?

Hercule Poirot

Surprised that people here are ignoring the actual OP and going way off tangent in some places.

I've never been racially abused so I have no idea what it feels like but social media companies have a duty to protect their users and they are utterly failing when it comes to the vile, racist abuse that is often sent to black people online.

I've often felt that it would take moves like this, high profile black people to step down from using social media and it really shouldn't have had to get this far. The technology is there to prevent the abuse at source, to prevent racial slurs even being typed never mind being sent.

Some may say Henry is letting the racists win by stepping off the platforms but it's starting to look as if black people have very little choice because of the apathy with which the abuse is being met with by these companies.

I'm sure if more high profile footballers, ex-footballers - the likes Ian Wright, Marcus Rashford, Jadon Sancho - were to do the same, and publicly state their reasons for doing so, I'm sure we'd see an improvement in how social media companies prevent racist abuse at source.

Edit: I also find it depressing that the first response was a video of the handball, as if something he did 12 years ago means it's ok for him to be racially abused - pathetic really

walshb

1st world problems!

NIMAN

Hercule Poirot wrote: »

I'm sure if more high profile footballers, ex-footballers - the likes Ian Wright, Marcus Rashford, Jadon Sancho - were to do the same, and publicly state their reasons for doing so, I'm sure we'd see an improvement in how social media companies prevent racist abuse at source.

Wrong.

It would not make one iota of difference. Nothing would change.

Most of the people on social media wouldn't even know who those people are.

As for Henry, I think social media will go on as usual without him. He's wasting his time , as if people care about what he does. He had ideas above his station. A bore as well.

is_that_so

Deleted User wrote: »

Nothing will change until social media companies are treated as public utilities.


The Germans, on the other hand, are away with the fairies.

No, they just recognise that some words and underlying behaviour are not a form of debate. As always only say online what you would say to someone's face! On Henry I agree with what he's saying but there is also a brand at work and you need to be careful how you label people who challenge your opinions.

Hercule Poirot

Hercule Poirot wrote: »

Surprised that people here are ignoring the actual OP and going way off tangent in some places.

I've never been racially abused so I have no idea what it feels like but social media companies have a duty to protect their users and they are utterly failing when it comes to the vile, racist abuse that is often sent to black people online.

I've often felt that it would take moves like this, high profile black people to step down from using social media and it really shouldn't have had to get this far. The technology is there to prevent the abuse at source, to prevent racial slurs even being typed never mind being sent.

Some may say Henry is letting the racists win by stepping off the platforms but it's starting to look as if black people have very little choice because of the apathy with which the abuse is being met with by these companies.

I'm sure if more high profile footballers, ex-footballers - the likes Ian Wright, Marcus Rashford, Jadon Sancho - were to do the same, and publicly state their reasons for doing so, I'm sure we'd see an improvement in how social media companies prevent racist abuse at source.

Edit: I also find it depressing that the first response was a video of the handball, as if something he did 12 years ago means it's ok for him to be racially abused - pathetic really

Social media companies have one duty - maximise profits.

banie01

Ireland
We've won! But at what cost?

I mean I've not bought Gillette in years, Renault can get fúcked whilst Thierry is shilling them

It's a 1st world problem, but I'm not sure how cut up most Irish will be at a lack of Thierry Henry social media...

Could even be counted as a win.
Now we just have to get Sepp blatter for his "33rd team" bolloxology
Retrospective VAR before we ever let it go

grassylawn

Surely they block users who are racially abusive?

Wikipedia is non-profit and they have a handle on things enough to stop anything like that.

Seems pretty clear-cut. I dislike Henry because he slapped the ball into the Irish goal that time but that doesn't mean I think it's ok for people to attack him for being black.

YFlyer

He is gooner.

YFlyer

grassylawn wrote: »

Surely they block users who are racially abusive?

Wikipedia is non-profit and they have a handle on things enough to stop anything like that.

Seems pretty clear-cut. I dislike Henry because he slapped the ball into the Irish goal that time but that doesn't mean I think it's ok for people to attack him for being black.

Facebook put you in their 'jail' for typing certain words.

Hercule Poirot

NIMAN wrote: »

Wrong.

It would not make one iota of difference. Nothing would change.

Most of the people on social media wouldn't even know who those people are.

As for Henry, I think social media will go on as usual without him. He's wasting his time , as if people care about what he does. He had ideas above his station. A bore as well.

I don't agree with you.

Football is the most popular, global sport in the world - if some of its highest profile black players (and possibly some white ones in an act of solidarity) were to stop using social media there would be a massive fallout. Members of the public, not all obviously, may also follow suit.

I'm not saying the numbers would drop overnight to zero or anything that naïve but there would be a significant impact on the amount of the users, significant enough that their income would suffer and then they would be forced to act.

Me_Grapes

banie01 wrote: »

Now we just have to get Sepp blatter for his "33rd team" bolloxology
Retrospective VAR before we ever let it go

Although Blatter lapped it up, and made a holy show of us publicly, we have John Delaney to blame for that particular embarrassment.

riffmongous

walshb wrote: »

1st world problems!

So a 1st world problem for black people is that you get racially abused, but it's just online.. ok

NIMAN

Social media has billions of users.
The numbers that will leave it because a few black footballers have left it will be like a drop in the ocean.

The only way to stop internet abuse is to do away with anonymity.

Del2005

Hercule Poirot wrote: »

Surprised that people here are ignoring the actual OP and going way off tangent in some places.

I've never been racially abused so I have no idea what it feels like but social media companies have a duty to protect their users and they are utterly failing when it comes to the vile, racist abuse that is often sent to black people online.

I've often felt that it would take moves like this, high profile black people to step down from using social media and it really shouldn't have had to get this far. The technology is there to prevent the abuse at source, to prevent racial slurs even being typed never mind being sent.

Some may say Henry is letting the racists win by stepping off the platforms but it's starting to look as if black people have very little choice because of the apathy with which the abuse is being met with by these companies.

I'm sure if more high profile footballers, ex-footballers - the likes Ian Wright, Marcus Rashford, Jadon Sancho - were to do the same, and publicly state their reasons for doing so, I'm sure we'd see an improvement in how social media companies prevent racist abuse at source.

Edit: I also find it depressing that the first response was a video of the handball, as if something he did 12 years ago means it's ok for him to be racially abused - pathetic really

A black person leaving social media is exactly what racists and bigots want. He's played right into their hands by leaving and if more leave then it's even better for the racists.

Personally I think social media should be banned outright as it brings out the worse in people and has completely shut down debate. Whatever happened to "I disagree with every word you say but I'll defend your right to say it with my life."? Now it's I don't like what you say so I'll stop you talking.

Hercule Poirot

Hercule Poirot wrote: »

I don't agree with you.

Football is the most popular, global sport in the world - if some of its highest profile black players (and possibly some white ones in an act of solidarity) were to stop using social media there would be a massive fallout. Members of the public, not all obviously, may also follow suit.

I'm not saying the numbers would drop overnight to zero or anything that naïve but there would be a significant impact on the amount of the users, significant enough that their income would suffer and then they would be forced to act.

I dunno. Twitter locked Trump of the platform. That must have lost them users.

It’s good that people can’t get away with death threats, as in the German case, I wonder why it had to go to court though. Twitter should be banning these people.

alchemist33

I don't care for Henry much, for his behaviour after the handball as much as doing it, but he's dead right on racism. The example of the Swansea player in the OP is illustrative of the media companies' ambivalence on the matter. Banning someone from sending DMs for a few months is pathetic, as if Facebook access is some inalienable right. Banning them for life would be totally appropriate. Sure, Henry staying off sicial media may not achieve much, but what else can he do except highlight the issue.

Eric Cartman

YFlyer wrote: »

Facebook put you in their 'jail' for typing certain words.

Thats it, sadly a lot of rampant anti white racism and anti male sexism is allowed to be freely posted on facebook, hopefully this will get fb to actually look at their insane double standards on racist content

grassylawn

All very strange.

I'm surprised the companies are not stricter about it. I'm surprised there are no regulations to compel them to be stricter about it.

Political channels would be more appropriate than consumer ones. Consumer-driven change would only be temporary if it worked at all. Regulation would be more concrete.

suicide_circus

Cheatin bastard

walshb

riffmongous wrote: »

So a 1st world problem for black people is that you get racially abused, but it's just online.. ok

Racism is a human condition..

Even labeling it a problem is kind of inaccurate..

Human beings are by their very nature ALL capable of being racist...

Racism cannot and will not ever be eradicated. It’s an impossibility..

His stance here is attention seeking pie in the sky

alchemist33

walshb wrote: »

Racism cannot and will not ever be eradicated. It’s an impossibility..

Same for murder, but sure why bother having laws about it

walshb

alchemist33 wrote: »

Same for murder, but sure why bother having laws about it

The comparison here is pointless..

Social media has become an increasingly hate-filled place. Even this very forum is an example of it at times.

Look at Paddy Cosgrave yesterday. Publicly trying to shame a private citizien just because he happens to be the partner of the Tanaiste. Getting his army of cranks, pirate flags in their profile name, Shinnerbots, and malcontents to round up on someone. Soon no one will enter public life because of the fear of the mob. Very dark and depressing times for democracy, society, civic discourse, and decency. I mean you had a poster here who named himself after the partner of Leo, and then proceeded to post thousands of times about LV.

Social media is an experiment that has utterly failed and we now all have to live with the consequences.

AllForIt

I've said it before and I'll say it many times more: I have no sympathy whatsoever for social media users, particularly famous ones, who receive any kind of unwelcome or abusive comments.

The whole social media thing is fundamentally flawed in that once you sign up you leave yourself open to comments from basically everyone on the planet. What could go wrong?

And I say particularly famous ones because they are on there to promote themselves for free. And of course famous ppl have thousands of followers so they cant manage their own account but expect the tech comp to do it for them.

If Henry wants to make some stand about racism or any other social concern - absolutely fine, but if he's making it in relation to social media than as I say I've no sympathy.

DoctorEdgeWild

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Social media has...

Social media is an experiment that has utterly failed and we now all have to live with the consequences.

How so? It's been unbelievably successful. The people who developed, invested and promoted it are some of the richest people around. It wasn't an experiment, it's a business.

JustAThought

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Social media has become an increasingly hate-filled place. Even this very forum is an example of it at times.

Look at Paddy Cosgrave yesterday. Publicly trying to shame a private citizien just because he happens to be the partner of the Tanaiste. Getting his army of cranks, pirate flags in their profile name, Shinnerbots, and malcontents to round up on someone. Soon no one will enter public life because of the fear of the mob. Very dark and depressing times for democracy, society, civic discourse, and decency. I mean you had a poster here who named himself after the partner of Leo, and then proceeded to post thousands of times about LV.

Social media is an experiment that has utterly failed and we now all have to live with the consequences.

Guns have failed too but they don’t pull their own triggers. Its also a lot about the mentality of the people using them.

Pussyhands

He'll be back soon when sponsors etc are begging him to get back on it to post PR and then he'll be like "after consideration, I've realised I can do more to combat racism on here, than off it"

Sick of people doing these token things without actually doing anything meaningful and them thinking they're Ghandi.

The day of reckoning is coming where anonymous accounts are a thing of the past as users are required to submit IDs for verification.

About time in my opinion. Very few downsides to it.

TomTomTim

Hailee Millions Temper wrote: »

The day of reckoning is coming where anonymous accounts are a thing of the past as users are required to submit IDs for verification.

About time in my opinion. Very few downsides to it.

Only if you're a political ideologue who wants to further their power. We live in a world where people can lose their livelihood over an off colored joke, a benign political statement. A world where anyone who opposes radical dogma, is framed as a radical. The dogmatic, of which there are many, are ruthless. They go straight for your wallet every time, straight to your employer to get you fired. If we actually had more freedom in the west your position would be sounder, but we don't, so internet anonymity is needed now more than ever.

AllForIt

AllForIt wrote: »

I've said it before and I'll say it many times more: I have no sympathy whatsoever for social media users, particularly famous ones, who receive any kind of unwelcome or abusive comments.

The whole social media thing is fundamentally flawed in that once you sign up you leave yourself open to comments from basically everyone on the planet. What could go wrong?

And I say particularly famous ones because they are on there to promote themselves for free. And of course famous ppl have thousands of followers so they cant manage their own account but expect the tech comp to do it for them.

If Henry wants to make some stand about racism or any other social concern - absolutely fine, but if he's making it in relation to social media than as I say I've no sympathy.

I actually think it's pretty reasonable for social media platforms to not tolerate racism and there's plenty of. Famous or not, I have absolute sympathy for anyone subjected to racism. Going on socially media should not open anyone up for racist abuse.

TomTomTim

Deleted User wrote: »

I actually think it's pretty reasonable for social media platforms to not tolerate racism and there's plenty of. Famous or not, I have absolute sympathy for anyone subjected to racism. Going on socially media should not open anyone up for racist abuse.

Agreed. Twitter really needs to sort out all those blue checks marks, who regularly push anti white racism, but I doubt that's the racism you've an issue with.

Hailee Millions Temper

Hailee Millions Temper wrote: »

The day of reckoning is coming where anonymous accounts are a thing of the past as users are required to submit IDs for verification.

About time in my opinion. Very few downsides to it.

You are aware of how many people post racist and other bigoted sh*t from their own personal accounts, often with their children in the profile photo with them?


This notion that it's only anonymous accounts that act the bollocks is a nonsense.

TomTomTim

TomTomTim wrote: »

Agreed. Twitter really needs to sort out all those blue checks marks, who regularly push anti white racism, but I doubt that's the racism you've an issue with.

Yawn... You and Cartman seem very hard done by.

Pussyhands

Hailee Millions Temper wrote: »

The day of reckoning is coming where anonymous accounts are a thing of the past as users are required to submit IDs for verification.

About time in my opinion. Very few downsides to it.

Said from the comfort of ones home in a democracy.

The dictators of the world would love it.

ExMachina1000

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Yawn... You and Cartman seem very hard done by.

Racism against whites is "yawn" to you?
Racism against other colours and some people expect the world to stop

nolivesmatter

alchemist33 wrote: »

Same for murder, but sure why bother having laws about it

The definition of murder is pretty much constant and unanimously understood.
The definition of racism seems to be endlessly expanding and is often subjective. Most accusations of racism I see these days are bull****.

ExMachina1000

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Racism against whites is "yawn" to you?
Racism against other colours and some people expect the world to stop

The odds of you or me having racial abuse because we're white is incredibly low. Also it's unlikely to hold you back in any way. So ya, I would say your claims of an anti white agenda is up there with the anti male agenda. You're uncomfortable with what should be unacceptable behaviour being finally called out. So yep, I'd say get over yourself as you're pretty transparent and there's no horrible agenda against white people or men for that matter.

ExMachina1000

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The odds of you or me having racial abuse because we're white is incredibly low. Also it's unlikely to hold you back in any way. So ya, I would say your claims of an anti white agenda is up there with the anti male agenda. You're uncomfortable with what should be unacceptable behaviour being finally called out. So yep, I'd say get over yourself as you're pretty transparent and there's no horrible agenda against white people or men for that matter.

Who mentioned agenda?

timeToLive

cheater

BorneTobyWilde

99.9999% of racial insults on social media are made by people who aren't even racist. That's how simple these people are. They just use it as a tool to hurt someone when they're losing an argument .

OneEightSeven

Hailee Millions Temper wrote: »

The day of reckoning is coming where anonymous accounts are a thing of the past as users are required to submit IDs for verification.

About time in my opinion. Very few downsides to it.

You say that now, but if you say anything negative about Travellers on social media, you'll have Dr. Sindy Joyce, Rosemarie Maughan and their leftist allies on Twitter pressuring your employer to fire you for racism.

Your Face

So brave and virtuous - wasnt he was sponsored by Nike, of child-labour infamy?

AllForIt

Deleted User wrote: »

I actually think it's pretty reasonable for social media platforms to not tolerate racism and there's plenty of. Famous or not, I have absolute sympathy for anyone subjected to racism. Going on socially media should not open anyone up for racist abuse.

https://www.internetlivestats.com/twitter-statistics/

One more reason I don't think it's reasonable. Remember I said I think the platform is fundamentally flawed so I don't think there is a reasonable fix for it. And that's why I say if you don't like it, don't use it.