Landlord question about tenant situation

kalebl90210

1. I spent a few grand fixing an apartment before tenant moved in about a month ago. Letted via agency. I was living in it beforehand and had moved on.

2. Since moving in the tenant requested a few fixes which were all valid and I paid for. No hassle - I am a good landlord, registered with PRTB etc.

3. Out of the blue today I get an email from the agency forwarded from the tenant is suffering health issues related to allergies in the apartment due to it's proximity to construction site. It is close to a construction site but I lived there for over 3 years and never had any issues with dust. On occasion with wind - it would blow in the apartment direction but I would close windows etc.

4. I told the estate agent I'd give him a call tomorrow to discuss as I was busy. I hadn't made any decision yet. TBH I was indifferent at this point.

5. The estate agent then forwarded me another email from the tenant which was a doctor's cert. The doctor stated that the dust particles in the apartment from the construction activities nearby are the direct cause of the tenant's medical problems. The doctor also asked on the letter that I would allow him to break his lease and return the deposit.

I really don't know what to do:

1. How can the doctor make that assumption? Can doctors make that link?
2. Since when do doctors mention breaking leases and deposits on medical notes?

I have had no indication in the last month that the tenant was unhappy or suffering any medical problems. It's really strange.

Any advice?

ED E

Let em go, likely dodging a bullet.

Smee_Again

Let the tenant assign the lease to someone else.

kalebl90210

ED E wrote: »

Let em go, likely dodging a bullet.

Thanks. TBH I wouldn't have minded that much if we were a few months in and I had recuperated some of my losses.

- If he is not telling the truth and document is forged - god knows what other trouble he may bring
- If he is telling the truth - how can he or a doctor say his issues are caused by dust from the apartment? I don't want anyone to stay where it's a risk to their health.

the_syco

Smee_Again wrote: »

Let the tenant assign the lease to someone else.

F**k no. Worst thing possible. They could literally get anyone in, and do less checking than what the letting agent did. Am guessing that they found a cheaper place.

=-=

OP; agreed with ED E; relet, and move on.

the_syco

kalebl90210 wrote: »

- If he is not telling the truth and document is forged - god knows what other trouble he may bring
- If he is telling the truth - how can he or a doctor say his issues are caused by dust from the apartment? I don't want anyone to stay where it's a risk to their health.

If you don't let him leave, expect a PTRB case about how you're failing to safeguard the tenant. IMO, the repairs you did was their first attempt to leave.

PetitPois89

For all we know doctor could be the tenants friend or relative. I’ve never heard of a doctor recommending a tenant is allowed to break his lease and I’m in this game a long time.

Agree with the poster who said let him go. He sounds like trouble and it’s a lucky escape

kalebl90210

the_syco wrote: »

F**k no. Worst thing possible. They could literally get anyone in, and do less checking than what the letting agent did. Am guessing that they found a cheaper place.

=-=

OP; agreed with ED E; relet, and move on.

It's a renter's market for sure at the moment and he is paying A LOT for the place so that could be a factor for sure.

I wish I had some way of validating that he was telling the truth. Sending me a doctor's note when I hadn't even discussed with the estate agent yet - seems like a crazy way to escalate.

If the fixes were valid youve made no losses- you had expenses.

Sounds like a bullet dodged here id agree

Don’t give it a second thought, let him go, give him back his deposit and consider it your good fortune that he leaves now rather than giving you more grief.

kalebl90210

the_syco wrote: »

If you don't let him leave, expect a PTRB case about how you're failing to safeguard the tenant. IMO, the repairs you did was their first attempt to leave.

To be fair - the repairs were genuine fixes for sure.

Re: PRTB case. I don't think he'd have much to stand over as he'd need to prove the "doctor's claims". It's so tough to know.

road_high

Sign up immediately and get them out ASAP! They sound like a potential nightmare- next they’ll be unable to pay the rent due to the “health issues”. Nothing worse than paranoid hypochondriacs

kalebl90210

kalebl90210 wrote: »

To be fair - the repairs were genuine fixes for sure.

I don't think he'd have much to stand over as he'd need to prove the "doctor's claims". It's so tough to know.

You achieve nothing by challenging it, he is going to leave anyway and it’s unlikely you will legally enforce the tenancy agreement, so, Occam’s razor applies.

kalebl90210

Dav010 wrote: »

You achieve nothing by challenging it, he is going to leave anyway and it’s unlikely you will legally enforce the tenancy agreement, so, Occam’s razor applies.

I agree with Occam's Razor - to be fair while we sorting out the initial fixes he came across as amicable and wanting to settle in - the agent's forwarded me his emails.

I don't see how anyone would have went out of their way to go to hassle of getting internet, electricity and gas switched to their name and then to reverse 360 a few weeks after. He's going to have to pay out of these contracts too.

TBH if I haven't had received the doctor's letter I wouldn't have given it a second thought.

1874

ED E wrote: »

Let em go, likely dodging a bullet.

Agreed, do this, person only going to be trouble.
On top of which, the construction activity nearby is not your fault, but you could still be gotten onto the hook for not preventing it.
I do not know how in hell a Dr is asking what you are saying has been said, just move that guy on (but do it formally and ensure they uphold their end too, so 28 days? notice and Id try get them to commit to paying for that by saying youll agree to let them cancel the tenancy).


TBH if it is a part 4 lease, technically they can cancel with 28 days notice, if they want to leave early, thats on them, you may or may not get a months rent out of it, but if they terminate the tenancy then you are off the hook and can treat it correctly/formally and after they leave withold the deposit to cover any shortfall in their stay.


They could take you to the RTB but with their cancellation of the tenancy you are covered imo to withold the lease (seek advice on that)
I would not outright agree to returning the deposit and very odd (assuming it is even a legitimiatly a Dr who wrote that letter and not their mate).


For sure what I would do, is if an agencey got you this tenant, I would be back to them insisting they get you a replacement for no charge, as they failed to do what was required.
I did this once, had a tenant, I think they couldnt pay/changed their mind, I got on to the agency who got the tenant and insisted they get a replacement which they agreed to as it had only been 4 or 5 weeks.
So you may not be at a loss in that regard.


I think the RTB will want you to mitigate any losses, so try get a tenant through the agency and start your enquiry as soon as the person has sent you written confirmation of termination of the lease.

Smee_Again wrote: »

Let the tenant assign the lease to someone else.

IMO, DO NOT DO THIS OP, they could get anyone in, clearly they just want out, this cant be avoided it seems but they cant expect to not have to commit to the notice period,

If their health is the situation then they should be ok to prioritise this over losing a bit of money which is not your fault (it seems) o your problem.


I would agree to them terminating the lease (because they want out and they can do that anyway) I would not commit to returning the deposit, just stick t the whole, you are agreeing they can terminate, and for them to do it formally.

JoChervil

kalebl90210 wrote: »

It's a renter's market for sure at the moment and he is paying A LOT for the place so that could be a factor for sure.

I wish I had some way of validating that he was telling the truth. Sending me a doctor's note when I hadn't even discussed with the estate agent yet - seems like a crazy way to escalate.

But on such a note it should be a name of the doctor or surgery. So phone them and ask about the whole situation. Especially why he wrote about breaking lease. If it is forged, so then you can get rid of your tenant without losses. He would have to pay rent till you find a new tenant.

1874

kalebl90210 wrote: »

I agree with Occam's Razor - to be fair while we sorting out the initial fixes he came across as amicable and wanting to settle in - the agent's forwarded me his emails.

I don't see how anyone would have went out of their way to go to hassle of getting internet, electricity and gas switched to their name and then to reverse 360 a few weeks after. He's going to have to pay out of these contracts too.

TBH if I haven't had received the doctor's letter I wouldn't have given it a second thought.

He might be able to transfer them, anyway let him go, dont contest it, get them to do it formal, Id avoid discussing or returning the deposit if they leave within a week, try get the agent to replace them at no extra cost as they presumably have been paid to do this.

kalebl90210

JoChervil wrote: »

But on such a note it should be a name of the doctor or surgery. So phone them and ask about the whole situation. Especially why he wrote about breaking lease. If it is forged, so then you can get rid of your tenant without losses. He would have to pay rent till you find a new tenant.

I don't think a doctor would confirm anything without the patient's express permission so I could call his bluff on that but as a previous poster said, even if he wasn't bluffing me I would gain nothing.

kalebl90210

1874 wrote: »

He might be able to transfer them, anyway let him go, dont contest it, get them to do it formal, Id avoid discussing or returning the deposit if they leave within a week, try get the agent to replace them at no extra cost as they presumably have been paid to do this.

The agreement with the agent is a % once the property gets rented rather than a finding fee so not sure.

I think what I am going to do is:

1. Arrange with the tenant to end the tenancy at the end of April. Get this in writing.
2. If the apartment is checked and in good nick I am happy to give his deposit back
3. Try to see if we can get some viewings in during the month of April

I can't be more fair than that I think.

1874

kalebl90210 wrote: »

The agreement with the agent is a % once the property gets rented rather than a finding fee so not sure.

I think what I am going to do is:

1. Arrange with the tenant to end the tenancy at the end of April. Get this in writing.
2. If the apartment is checked and in good nick I am happy to give his deposit back
3. Try to see if we can get some viewings in during the month of April

I can't be more fair than that I think.

tbh if you can get 1. and 2. Id probably be happy to get that,


given covid and this person claiming health issues, I dont know if Id ask or push 3. you could and see how it goes, but expect they may push back.


imo I wouldnt acquiesce completely (ie I wouldnt agree to return of deposit and them to be allowed walk out with zero notice) but you have to read the situation,


what you are saying above sounds fair, but expect pushback, keep it civil and if they push their side/opinion, just friendly give yours.


They may have had a change of heart and just want out, if they get agreement they may not contest things too much,


but overall, it is best they go (for you), because it may very well be something else in the future, then another thing and so on.

JoChervil

JoChervil wrote: »

But on such a note it should be a name of the doctor or surgery. So phone them and ask about the whole situation. Especially why he wrote about breaking lease. If it is forged, so then you can get rid of your tenant without losses. He would have to pay rent till you find a new tenant.

A doctor will not discuss a patient with the op, and if the tenant refuses to pay, not much the op can do about it. It would be a lot worse if the tenant dug his heels in and stopped paying rent altogether, it could take a year for the op to evict with no hope of getting the rent owed.

Darc19

Send copy of letter to the doctor and ask them to confirm that it is genuine.

Tell the letting agent that any future tenants must have written reference from previous landlord.

Get rid of current tenant asap.

1874

Darc19 wrote: »

Send copy of letter to the doctor and ask them to confirm that it is genuine.

Tell the letting agent that any future tenants must have written reference from previous landlord.

Get rid of current tenant asap.

OP, I would not even waste my time with this, even if the Dr had the time to reply, you are no one to them, they wont confirm or refute medical details about someone.

Id keep a record of anything the tenant supplies re Dr note/termination etc for sure, in the event it comes up in the future, but I wouldnt expect it to.
The tenant may just want out, may genuinely feel they have medical issues that they believe are affected by the location, and whether that is true or is not true, its just a thing, but not one you can enquire into imo.


If its not true, it serves no purpose, if it is then it looks like you are poking around in their business, it consumes time and has no result other than to make you look not good.

AmberGold

Get rid of them, sound like hassle.

kalebl90210

1874 wrote: »

OP, I would not even waste my time with this, even if the Dr had the time to reply, you are no one to them, they wont confirm or refute medical details about someone.

Id keep a record of anything the tenant supplies re Dr note/termination etc for sure, in the event it comes up in the future, but I wouldnt expect it to.
The tenant may just want out, may genuinely feel they have medical issues that they believe are affected by the location, and whether that is true or is not true, its just a thing, but not one you can enquire into imo.


If its not true, it serves no purpose, if it is then it looks like you are poking around in their business, it consumes time and has no result other than to make you look not good.

I agree.

agoodpunt

Wipe the slate clean new tenant, agent and rent if the last was to high, quality over return.

If you do decide to rent again NO FIXED TERM LEASE
Use a different agent

ONLY let to someone who has refs and an proven abliity to pay rent viewed in bank detail statement.

Charge market rent no gowging..

Be mindful that access to your or return of property maybe further restricted in the future where duration of tenancies will be more at the discretion of the tenant.

If any of the above is not attainable consider selling or wait for the market to normalize end of...

PetitPois89

Why are so many people assuming that the tenant didn’t supply references and the agency didn’t check them?

A tenant can provide glowing references that check out and still turn into the biggest nightmare you can imagine. Apart from proving the tenants employment/salary/that he lived where he said he did, that’s all references can do. Because somebody provides references that are subsequently verified, it means very little

Lux23

Or maybe the person is genuinely suffering because of a dust allergy and can't stay in the apartment?

mistress_gi

From a tennants perspective. I rented a place and quickly discovered (about 3 months) the place was damp and i was sick all the time. I gave noticed and the landlord was good enough to let me out and find a more suitable place to live.
I was very gratefull to the landlord.

The Continental Op

Just a minute, what building is going on at the moment when all sites are shut due to Covid?

ted1

I’d met them go, but I would report the Doctor to the medical board. His conclusion is nonsense and unfounded I’d be livid if I received a letter like that.

It’s so far outside their remit.

The tenant is also on the hook for charges till you relent. Hopefully you can do it fast. But advertising costs and the rent while it’s empty can come out if his deposit

ted1

The Continental Op wrote: »

Just a minute, what building is going on at the moment when all sites are shut due to Covid?

Lots. Government contracts , private nursing homes and many more

JimmyVik

The Doctors not makes me chuckle.
Ask the Doctor to provide all of the evidence and research that showed them that the particular dust from a building site ended up in your apartment and then caused the patient health issues - Just do that for the laugh.

But seriously. Just allow them to leave. Imagine what they will be like if they see a bit of mildew one day in the shower, or a mouse.
Straight back to the Doctor for another note.
Just let them on.

mrslancaster

The tenant could be severely affected by the construction dust if they have asthma or some other lung condition. People generally think asthma is a mild health condition but it can be very serious. I know someone whose asthma is triggered by house dust and that would be much less than the huge amounts coming from a building site. They have ended up in hospital many times with breathing problems.

it's a nuisance for you OP but it could be very difficult for the tenant living with that situation every day.

kalebl90210

1. The construction site is easily seen from the apartment. The tenant could see it during the viewing - caveat emptor. The tenant is in his mid 30s - I find it very hard to believe a dust allergy was identified this late in his life but always a possibility - who knows?

2. The estate agent's office is based on the ground floor of the block, even closer to the construction site and never had an issue with dust. Chatted with him today.

3. EA reckons yer man made up his mind to leave a few weeks back and was probably looking for an excuse to leave due to the well measured responses we received and the fact it escalated so quickly. EA agreed that he would cause further trouble if we don't get rid of him.

We agreed to proceed with 1. and 2. here so waiting to hear from feedback from tenant.

Edgware

Get rid and put down to experience. The joys of being a landlord.

mrslancaster

kalebl90210 wrote: »

1. The construction site is easily seen from the apartment. The tenant could see it during the viewing - caveat emptor. The tenant is in his mid 30s - I find it very hard to believe a dust allergy was identified this late in his life but always a possibility - who knows?

2. The estate agent's office is based on the ground floor of the block, even closer to the construction site and never had an issue with dust. Chatted with him today.

3. EA reckons yer man made up his mind to leave a few weeks back and was probably looking for an excuse to leave due to the well measured responses we received and the fact it escalated so quickly. EA agreed that he would cause further trouble if we don't get rid of him.

We agreed to proceed with 1. and 2. here so waiting to hear from feedback from tenant.

In fairness, I can't see any GP writing such a letter if it's untrue. As for discovering allergies in 30's, well it is very common & even at older ages.

So what if the EA has no problem with the construction dust? You didn't either. Imo it's better to sort it before tenant has a health problem while living there & ending up in hospital.

mrslancaster

mrslancaster wrote: »

In fairness, I can't see any GP writing such a letter if it's untrue. As for discovering allergies in 30's, well it is very common & even at older ages.

So what if the EA has no problem with the construction dust? You didn't either. Imo it's better to sort it before tenant has a health problem while living there & ending up in hospital.

A GP may write a letter in relation to allergies, but strayed a bit when requesting that the LL release a tenant from a lease and return deposit.

Baby01032012

In a culture where a tenant can sign a lease and after 6 months can stay for up to six years and can continue not pay rent and overhold and can take a year to get out after slow processes of adjudication appeal tribunal and determination. Resulting in a years lost rent.

I’m not saying that this tenant is like that. He sounds genuine. Where a tenant wants to leave let him go better than being in position above. You’ll have place let again in 2 weeks. Agent May wave their fee or better still do it yourself.

Mrs OBumble

OP, you're seriously overthinking this. It's doesn't matter if the note is genuine, or the issue is genuine. The tenant wants out. Get them out ASAP. Offer to let them leave at the end of March, not April: you have more chance of getting April's rent from someone who wants to be there.