Things to check before buying a (50yr old) house

yak

Hi,

Myself and my wife are in the process of buying a house and are starting to get disillusioned with the ordeal.... we agreed to buy the house in early Sept (over 6 months ago!) and are still weeks if not months from knowing when we'll be able to move in....

I've a few questions that I'm hoping someone here can share their thoughts with me on.... (aside from the delays - which are primarily down to a retention planning permission application) our biggest concern is trying to understand what we can/can't get checked before signing the contracts.

we had a surveyor review the house and they came back with a couple of concerns (the planning permission being one of the them!), but also flagged that the electrics/plumbing and insulation were things to be aware of.

While the electrics are critical, they are unlikely to cause us issues unless we go to do more work on the house (which we dont plan to do), however she could only confirm that the boiler fired (not that the heat worked) and questioned the BER rating of the house (she expected it to be E/F rather than the D that its certified as).

we've asked the vendor/estate agent to facilitate a heat/insulation survey and they've refused saying that they've done all that is required of them (they are still living in the property). With everything going on with Covid I totally understand their stance, but it seems their reasons aren't covid related and even if we were to wait another 6 months until covid is hopefully much more manageable there is no guarantee that they'd facilitate the survey. The estate agent has also said that he's not willing to ask for a plumber/electrician to be given access to dedicated surveys either....

I'm pretty sure all is above board but none of it is sitting very well with me at the moment. we have a contingency for general improvements, but if we are looking at 80k for electrics/plumbing/insulation then I'm worried...

Has anyone been in a similar situation - what was the outcome? does a vendor have to facilitate electrical/plumbing/insulating surveys if the surveyor has highlighted them for investigation? Or is the surveyor supposed to be able to signoff on all things that need to be audited?

thanks,

YaK

steamsey

They can facilitate or not, it depends on how badly they want to sell. If you really want the detailed surveys done, and they won't facilitate, it might be best to walk. Alternatively, assume everything needs to be replaced and get someone like a quantity surveyor to price it all up for you. Make sure your eyes are wide open buying a older house.

On a 50 year old house, you would not be long getting to 80k for wiring, plumbing, insulation, maybe windows, floors etc. That job could involve you having to move out for weeks, depending on the contractor.

spaceHopper

We bought a house built in 1969 the heating was added later!

You can ask them if the hearing works. If it's copper or qualplex pips then all you should have to do is install modern radiators, if it's iron pipes (gun metal) then you will need to change them. You will find it hard to get home insurance unless you rewire. Find that out now as you don't want to be close to closing and find you can't get insurance and have to back out. You may need to get an electrician to check the wiring for insurance, there may be no way a round that unless you commit to doing the work with in x month. Don't take now for an answer this needs to be check or you might not be able to close.

We ended up doing all the sockets and insulating walls the windows were OK we've since done an extension. Since then we did a full extension and all the lights were done too

Look at it this way you will have to spend the 80 K but then you have a home with a better garden than you get with new builds

JimmyVik

In my opinion the older the house the better.
I would prefer to buy a hundred year old house than a 10 year old one.
You would be amazed what you can do with a house of any age though.

babi-hrse

I found that all the things I looked at that were in the house were then completely inadequate for my wants and ended up pretty much redoing all them.
I suppose not having to rip the pipes out is a big headache avoided. We had a stove boiler didn't like it ended up putting in an oil boiler didn't like the small uninsulated cylinder got that replaced then didn't like the lack of a shower put a pump in. Radiators were not giving off enough heat replaced them all with double walled radiators.
Electrics not enough sockets ended up putting more in didn't like the way the wiring was terminated behind them and hidden junctions connector blocked with electrical tape in the attic replaced the lot. So looking back on it I'd have just as well considered it not done and just pulled new everything through for peace of mind and for future reference.
Redoing the insulation the pipes are just about the only thing not replaced and I haven't a clue where they're going between the stove boiler and the oil burner so I'll probably end up getting into that.
I'm just an ocd perfectionist but if your anything like me bet rating won't matter to you if you end up doing things after moving in and trying to live with the house.

NSAman

If it is a house you love, move ahead.

Having just finished re-doing a house from 1902, it IS a lot of work.

Wiring will be needed to be replaced, heating probably, windows most definitely. Insulation needed, then the internals will have to be looked at.

If you plan on making this your forever home, then do it right from the start. That comes with massive costs.

It is very much a “how long is a piece of string?” question.

The house is obviously habitable, it just remains for you to ask yourself what level of finish and disturbance can you live with and for how long, while the work is being done.

Doop

With the money you are about to spend you would be foolish not get all the info you want prior to proceeding. You rightly need to be going into it with your eyes wide open. Maybe the vendor is fearful you will try to renegotiate based on findings of further surveys but if they are being obstructive I would be tempted to walk or at the very least threaten to!

Personally we bought a naughty's house 2 years ago. Got a survey done and concerns were raised over the plumbing so I arranged a plumber to take a look, vendor had no issue facilitating access.

You need to do your due diligence and if someone is preventing you from doing it I would be very apprehensive, unless of course you are getting it at a great price and any potential works can be offset against it.

Your building surveyor can only comment generally on electrics and plumbing.

I also wouldn't worry about what the estate agent says. If you want a message passed to the vendor then instruct him to do it. Thats his job after all. If the sale fell through because he 'refused' to pass on a request I doubt his client would be very happy. Try to remove the emotion and approach it like a business deal... as much as is practicable anyway!

Dolbhad

We recently bought a house that was built in 1980. All I’ll say is please get a drains test carried out. Our engineer recommended it as it’s an easy test to be carried out and tends to be recommended now in second hand houses a few years old. Cost us €400.

Turned out there were major leaks to the pipes all over the property. Repair to the drains was not enough and full drains replacement was needed. Around 12k of work needed. We managed to get the sellers to sort it. So best €400 we spent.

Our solicitor also advised to get it carried out as she said it’s the one area price can be renegotiated on if sellers won’t fix it.

JohnK

Dolbhad wrote: »

We recently bought a house that was built in 1980. All I’ll say is please get a drains test carried out. Our engineer recommended it as it’s an easy test to be carried out and tends to be recommended now in second hand houses a few years old. Cost us €400.

Turned out there were major leaks to the pipes all over the property. Repair to the drains was not enough and full drains replacement was needed. Around 12k of work needed. We managed to get the sellers to sort it. So best €400 we spent.

Our solicitor also advised to get it carried out as she said it’s the one area price can be renegotiated on if sellers won’t fix it.

What do you typically do in a case like that - do you share the engineers report & drains report with the EA? I was in a similar situation a few years back and my engineer didn't want his report shared with them at all which I though was a bit strange.

JimmyVik

JohnK wrote: »

What do you typically do in a case like that - do you share the engineers report & drains report with the EA? I was in a similar situation a few years back and my engineer didn't want his report shared with them at all which I though was a bit strange.

They are cagey like that.

Ive seen a situation where one engineers report came back with a drain issue. He said it would cost about €7000 to remedy.
The owner went to another engineer to check it and he said it was only a minor problem and they got it remedied for less than €1000.
The buyers engineer insisted there was more wrong with it so they pulled out.

Next buyer in lines engineer passed it with flying colours and the sale went through. Different opinions.

Dolbhad

JohnK wrote: »

What do you typically do in a case like that - do you share the engineers report & drains report with the EA? I was in a similar situation a few years back and my engineer didn't want his report shared with them at all which I though was a bit strange.

The cctv drains report I shared. The sellers appointed an engineer who liaised with my engineer. We didn’t need to share the report and they chatted among themselves.

We had to get a quote for the drains work and the sellers got a quote for the drains work which we both shared. Their report was for fixing drains. Ours was for repairing them so was a big difference in price but we pushed for replacement since subsidence was becoming an issue.

We were going to get the works knocked off sale price and do it ourselves but there was also an issue of subsidence of part a wall our engineer highlighted. In the end the sellers made a claim on their insurance, had the works fixed and then we closed the sale in December.

I found it easier once the sellers got an engineer - the two engineers could be a lot more frank about the issues. Our engineer was also fab on Cork and did a lot of the negotiating for us.

JohnK

Sounds very similar to what I had but the seller had no interest in getting an engineer then had a friend of theirs do some very basic work on the drains and tried to say that was more than enough so it fell through at that point. It went back on the market and was up on the PPR about 10 weeks later for 15k less than I had been offering. Just always thought it was a bit strange that on the one hand my engineer was saying not to share the report but on the other hand had the EA pushing for a copy so she could get the seller on board that there was an actual issue.

Dolbhad

JohnK wrote: »

Sounds very similar to what I had but the seller had no interest in getting an engineer then had a friend of theirs do some very basic work on the drains and tried to say that was more than enough so it fell through at that point. It went back on the market and was up on the PPR about 10 weeks later for 15k less than I had been offering. Just always thought it was a bit strange that on the one hand my engineer was saying not to share the report but on the other hand had the EA pushing for a copy so she could get the seller on board that there was an actual issue.

That is a bit strange your engineer wasn’t happy to share the report. After all you paid for it so you should be allowed use it!

I find sometimes if your the first person to raise that issue, the sellers might thing your the
Problem so won’t do anything unless it’s raised again. I have to say we did also have a great auctioneer who was very involved in trying to get both parties to agree and save the deal - rather than have it back on the market (where it was sitting for months as it was overpriced and we did buy it for well under asking). Whereas another aucitoneer might have told the sellers to not agree.

Cuddlesworth

In hindsight, and for anybody else reading, the house isn't bought until the contracts are signed. So don't stop looking until then.

If you got to a viewing with the same estate agent, feel free to point out the above. I found it got things moving along fairly quickly.

riclad

Once you decide a price range, and size 700- 100sqft 2, 3 bed, do i want a house with a garden you buy a house mainly for location.
is it close to schools, shops, work, luas, easy to get fast broadband.
a survey tells you all the major things wrong with a house,
how much it will cost to repair them.
you can bid x, you can say this bid is subject to a full structural survey.
the ber tells you approx how much it will cost to put in insulation.
And you have to think , how much can i spend on repairs ,
old houses generally need new windows and extra insulation.
re electrics surveyors look for faults, dry rot, leaks,
you,d probably need an electrician to tell you what work needs to be done.
its not a surveyors job to negotiate or say stop,go, buy, do not buy.
its more like heres all the items that need fixing,
it will cost x amount approx.

Yellow_Fern

Acoustic test to check if soundproofing is ok is handy. Also check if it is cavity block build.