Ryanair pulling out of Ireland

California Dreamer

California Dreamer wrote: »

Nobody is questioning that. As was pointed out they pulled out of Faro but still operated flights there.

Perhaps you don't know Beechwood Park's backstory.

L1011

Deleted User wrote: »

Perhaps you don't know Beechwood Park's backstory.

They are specifically not allowed talk about / bring in environmental stuff on off-topic threads, so please don't try lead that to happen

yew_tree

Ryanair today announced new services from Knock to Manchester and Edinburagh. This fills the void left by FlyBe. Great news!

The airline now operate to 13 destinations from Knock.

Nijmegen

yew_tree wrote: »

Ryanair today announced new services from Knock to Manchester and Edinburagh. This fills the void left by FlyBe. Great news!

The airline now operate to 13 destinations from Knock.

Yeah I think there's a major distinction folks need to wrap their heads around re "Ryanair pulling out of Ireland" - it won't lead to a single reduction in flights that can be filled by them from here, which is a really important market they have significant share of. This in an Ireland Inc and Ryanair PLC thing, nothing really to do with flights or getting to your sun holiday.

micosoft

Deleted User wrote: »

I used to think state-facilitated aggressive tax and regulatory planning for multinationals was useless unless the multinationals produce jobs.
Here I'm now thinking that with the exception of aviation firms who produce jobs around the airport that state-facilitated aggressive tax and regulatory planning is bad.
Ireland seems to be incapable of getting investment anywhere outside the canals/D4/D6 and in those areas provision of infrastructure is prohibitively expensive.
All the jobs seem to be going to the City Centre and it is having a negative impact on quality of life for those who live in the city and provision of even the simplest of infrastructure so expensive that it makes provision of infrastructure at the airport look cheap.

Irish Government probably should ensure we don't lose our competitive advantage to Malta for Aviation as Dublin Airport can handle the expansion and North West County Dublin can handle the increased demand on infrastructure in that location. Aviation has provided a lot of jobs in terms of quantity and quality in various professions to Ireland.

That's simply not true. There are plenty of jobs all over Dublin. Count the cranes in Sandyford where Microsoft etc have huge headquarters. Then outside Dublin you have Intel, Kerry group in the environs. Some businesses have decided to locate in Dublin City Centre because thats where their staff want to be. Post Covid this entire subject is even less of a problem. As a knowledge economy Ireland will benefit more than most from distributed workforce. It's a pity that one off housing that the Irish like makes it so much more expensive and difficult to roll out rural infrastructure like broadband.

Infrastructure is no worse than most other cities - I'd love to see an underground but the challenge there is Nimbyism and an electorate that don't reward long term projects.

micosoft

micosoft wrote: »

That's simply not true.

Have you made account of the cost of upgrading infrastructure in Sandyford. Have you tried to get in and out of Sandyford in rush hour.

I could make the same point about Nangor Road or Lucan Village or Blanch.

Many parts of Dublin are not "better" for inward investment's side effects.

micosoft

Nijmegen wrote: »

Ryanair is Ireland's most successful airline and one of the most successful airlines in the world. While we focus on creating tax planning strategies and making Ireland competitive for overseas investors to come in, it's odd that a home grown company is getting enticed to leave at least partially on tax. It speaks to a blind spot successive governments have had about supporting the domestic industries and firms we grow versus enticing in yank.

The challenge is the Irish Government can't win it all. We were a low cost low tax destination. No more. We are a rich country with high standards and cost of living and an electorate that are demanding high levels of state services. The country Ryanair grew up in is no more. There is a natural evolution here - remember Dell moved it's factory to Poland and there was weeping and knashing of teeth and huge criticism of the government of the day. But whats happened is that Dell are bigger in Limerick than when they did manufacturing, and instead of factory operatives they have thousands of consultants, developers etc in much higher value roles.

I personally think Ryanair is simply optimising its value chain or even value network across Europe moving components to the most efficient location possible. Nobody should be surprised at this - it's what Ryanair does. That means low value add activities moving to Poland, tax sensitive to Malta and potentially high value (HQ and other) activities kept in Dublin. I would not panic yet.

But my fundamental point is that the Government can't be all things to all businesses - it has to optimise the business it attracts and retains for the development stage Ireland is at. Some models just don't fit that any more. The important thing is that new higher value models are attracted in their stead.

micosoft

Deleted User wrote: »

Have you made account of the cost of upgrading infrastructure in Sandyford. Have you tried to get in and out of Sandyford in rush hour.

I could make the same point about Nangor Road or Lucan Village or Blanch.

Many parts of Dublin are not "better" for inward investment's side effects.

Yes I have. About 20 minutes at the moment from North Wicklow.

But if you mean during boom time - It's not great. But it's definetly not terrible. Have you commuted in San Jose? London in summer on the un-airconditioned tube? Seattle to Bellevue? Paris ring road? All major cities have infrastructure woes.

Anyway - the point was on jobs - and they certainly do go outside the canals. And post-covid a lot of these problems are actually going away.

Nijmegen

micosoft wrote: »

The challenge is the Irish Government can't win it all. We were a low cost low tax destination. No more. We are a rich country with high standards and cost of living and an electorate that are demanding high levels of state services. The country Ryanair grew up in is no more. There is a natural evolution here - remember Dell moved it's factory to Poland and there was weeping and knashing of teeth and huge criticism of the government of the day. But whats happened is that Dell are bigger in Limerick than when they did manufacturing, and instead of factory operatives they have thousands of consultants, developers etc in much higher value roles.

I personally think Ryanair is simply optimising its value chain or even value network across Europe moving components to the most efficient location possible. Nobody should be surprised at this - it's what Ryanair does. That means low value add activities moving to Poland, tax sensitive to Malta and potentially high value (HQ and other) activities kept in Dublin. I would not panic yet.

But my fundamental point is that the Government can't be all things to all businesses - it has to optimise the business it attracts and retains for the development stage Ireland is at. Some models just don't fit that any more. The important thing is that new higher value models are attracted in their stead.

I agree completely govt can't be all things to all people. But in this case we have correspondence from within the Dept of Finance where a specific issue was raised, noted, and the response was basically "We know this is happening but it'd be too much hassle for them to carry through on their threat to leave." I'd bet a solid weeks wages if they got a letter like that from Apple, Microsoft or Intel pointing out a tax loophole harming them, the DoF would have it sorted by budget time.