Working remotely in another country with County Council job

Inquirer

Dear all,

A bit of a hail Mary question here, but why not chance the arm? Is it remotely possible (pun not intended) to work remotely in another country in a County council Job? I know the two sound like utter oil and water, but given that remote working is starting to be a major thing even in this usually conservative sector, I wanted to know has it ever been done by anyone? Once again, just to say if we could all keep our answers reasonably civil, please? Thanks!

With Thanks in advance!

Mrs OBumble

Does the employer have a tax presence in the other already?

Can the job really be done 100% remotely?

Sunny Disposition

Inquirer wrote: »

Dear all,

A bit of a hail Mary question here, but why not chance the arm? Is it remotely possible (pun not intended) to work remotely in another country in a County council Job? I know the two sound like utter oil and water, but given that remote working is starting to be a major thing even in this usually conservative sector, I wanted to know has it ever been done by anyone? Once again, just to say if we could all keep our answers reasonably civil, please? Thanks!

With Thanks in advance!

Tax would be the issue, so you’d need to keep it quiet.

JoChervil

As far as tax is concerned, you have to live in another country for minimum 183 days to pay tax there. So if you live there less, so you would pay all tax here. But if you live in 3 countries and in none of them you exceed 183, so then country of your nationality would be chosen for it, if other factors like married partner don't apply.

mickdw

Id say some council jobs could easily be done for extended periods from anywhere in the world but not officially.
So fly to south of france, say nothing to anyone in work and have extended working holidays for large portion of the year.

Inquirer

Thanks for the answers folks!

Inquirer

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Does the employer have a tax presence in the other already?

Can the job really be done 100% remotely?

Thanks for the reply,

1: Not sure on this - I doubt the council would have any real interests in other countries, but can't say without research.

2: Not sure yet - am concerned that bringing this up with HR might end with a swift kick, so am being careful

gmisk

Inquirer wrote: »

Dear all,

A bit of a hail Mary question here, but why not chance the arm? Is it remotely possible (pun not intended) to work remotely in another country in a County council Job? I know the two sound like utter oil and water, but given that remote working is starting to be a major thing even in this usually conservative sector, I wanted to know has it ever been done by anyone? Once again, just to say if we could all keep our answers reasonably civil, please? Thanks!

With Thanks in advance!

I doubt you will be able to do it for an extended period, when lockdown is over most definitely not.
All indications and meetings I have been in, CS when people go back, will have a blended option to a degree but no working from home fulltime.

I did have one prospective HEO who turned down a role, because he wanted a guarantee he would only be in the office one day a week (he has relocated from dublin during pandemic) zero chance of it being written into a contract so he turned it down.

WhenIwasyoung

I think it depends on the country and what kind of data you work with. There could be tax implications for you and/ the company , if many employees work from same country it could be seen as setting up a type of foreign establishment, health and safety regulations, other regulations the employer may become subjected to and there may be some questions around adequate protection of data.

Mrs OBumble

I'm struggling to think of a county-council job which could be done without a physical presence in the country - not necessarily in the office, but on-site at places.

Jim2007

JoChervil wrote: »

As far as tax is concerned, you have to live in another country for minimum 183 days to pay tax there. So if you live there less, so you would pay all tax here. But if you live in 3 countries and in none of them you exceed 183, so then country of your nationality would be chosen for it, if other factors like married partner don't apply.

Don’t assume Irish/UK apply else where - they don’t. In some European countries 90 days with short interruptions is sufficient to make you tax resident.

Jim2007

There is a far more basic issue than taxation, it’s trying to get a residence or work permit to move to another country as a remote worker. I have never heard of a country having such an option. Even EU FMOP does not allow for it, unless you are moving to a member under the family reunification conditions. So unless you are young and happy to be a nomad it’s not a long term option.

Inquirer

Inquirer wrote: »

Dear all,

A bit of a hail Mary question here, but why not chance the arm? Is it remotely possible (pun not intended) to work remotely in another country in a County council Job? I know the two sound like utter oil and water, but given that remote working is starting to be a major thing even in this usually conservative sector, I wanted to know has it ever been done by anyone? Once again, just to say if we could all keep our answers reasonably civil, please? Thanks!

With Thanks in advance!

Indeed. Why not?

Tax is almost certainly already under a tax agreement so that's not relevant. You will pay Irish tax on the income.

Residence is only concerned with your ability to provide for yourself, working remotely is fine.

Obviously that's not 100% and you will need to get that checked in the country you chose.

Del2005

There could be data protection issues with processing data from an Irish council in a different country, would people be happy not knowing where the data could be processed and who can see it?

BrianD3

The words snowballs, chance and hell come to mind here. County Councils are stuck in the last century. Post Covid it will be a struggle for staff to get remote working if they live 5 minutes from the office, let alone if they live in a different country! How would they manage to print 4 copies of emails "for the file" in that case.

The warning signs are there from when you apply for a job, how many councils have some MS Word 97 application form that needs to be reformatted before it can be used then printed 4 times because they don't accept applications by email. Add to that 4 copies of your Leaving Cert from 30 years ago and 4 copies of anything else you submit.

Also some Councils still have no or very few planning files online. Bad for both customers and staff, if you want to view a planning file it has to be the hard copy. If you are a staff member you need to be in the office to retrieve that hard copy, that's if it can even be found.

gmisk

BrianD3 wrote: »

The words snowballs, chance and hell come to mind here. County Councils are stuck in the last century. Post Covid it will be a struggle for staff to get remote working if they live 5 minutes from the office, let alone if they live in a different country! How would they manage to print 4 copies of emails "for the file" in that case.

The warning signs are there from when you apply for a job, how many councils have some MS Word 97 application form that needs to be reformatted before it can be used then printed 4 times because they don't accept applications by email. Add to that 4 copies of your Leaving Cert from 30 years ago and 4 copies of anything else you submit.

Also some Councils still have no or very few planning files online. Bad for both customers and staff, if you want to view a planning file it has to be the hard copy. If you are a staff member you need to be in the office to retrieve that hard copy, that's if it can even be found.

I don't know about county councils. You could be entirely right.

But I am involved in discussions around where people are going to work going forward (in CS department).
We will likely be allowing a blend between 1 and 5 days a week (on pre agreed days) in office as agreed with manager is looking likely, for 12 months at a time. Majority of people will not have permanent desks by looks of it.
The vast majority of our staff are working extremely well from home and we have invested a lot in laptops, citrix etc.

Jim2007

At this point in time we have proven the technical capabilities of remote working, but we have not got the legal framework in place to facilitate it beyond national borders and that will take a few more years and most likely it will be restricted to the EU/EEA/CH.

FluffPiece

I wouldn't think it's likely you'll be allowed for a number of reason as already pointed out, mainly be the tax implications of not just you as a tax resident but the employer has potential tax liabilities also.

Another thing is, it's likely in your contract that your based at the council head officies and live within a reasonable distance to carry out your duties. Usually these can be for specific roles and for clear good reasons such as fire fighters, plumbers etc but check your own contract to be sure there's not a generic clause that might bite you down the line.

cee_jay

FluffPiece wrote: »

Another thing is, it's likely in your contract that your based at the council head officies and live within a reasonable distance to carry out your duties. Usually these can be for specific roles and for clear good reasons such as fire fighters, plumbers etc but check your own contract to be sure there's not a generic clause that might bite you down the line.

I think some roles in county councils definitely have this clause. I was looking at a job advert a couple of years ago, and even though it was commutable distance for me, the advert stated something about either a specific distance, or within the council confines IIRC.

Inquirer

BrianD3 wrote: »

The words snowballs, chance and hell come to mind here. County Councils are stuck in the last century. Post Covid it will be a struggle for staff to get remote working if they live 5 minutes from the office, let alone if they live in a different country! How would they manage to print 4 copies of emails "for the file" in that case.

The warning signs are there from when you apply for a job, how many councils have some MS Word 97 application form that needs to be reformatted before it can be used then printed 4 times because they don't accept applications by email. Add to that 4 copies of your Leaving Cert from 30 years ago and 4 copies of anything else you submit.

Also some Councils still have no or very few planning files online. Bad for both customers and staff, if you want to view a planning file it has to be the hard copy. If you are a staff member you need to be in the office to retrieve that hard copy, that's if it can even be found.

Hahahahahah. Yeah ... thats about right

Amsat

hi

starting a new job in a county council on the 5th December can anyone tell me if they work in arrears i know ill find out when i start next week but just curious.

Donald Trump

Working remotely in another country with County Council job?

That's nothing new. I know a fella that did that for nearly 2 years back in the 80's. Not officially of course. That was just how long it took them to notice he wasn't coming in any more.