NPWS Review

berettaman

Hey Lads,


Great to here that NPWS is getting a revamp as they are barely fit for purpose.
No doubt it will not make our lives as law abiding hunting people a little bit more difficult.



However I see the Minister says he is an animal rights activist, (per his Twitter feed) I hope we get a fair shake of the stick.

For many years, I’ve been a committed vegetarian and animal rights activist. However, I also believe that responsible hunting, with the correct training, oversight, equipment and licence can reduce pressures on biodiversity, in the absence of predators.

cookimonster

See Grizzly-45 post, link below-

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=116505014&postcount=8

Have your say!

cavan shooter

Great to see it coming but That survey is loaded towards NPWS becoming a separate entity with from what I can see is statutory powers. Very dangerous considering that Noonan is a card carrying animal rights activist. (wonder does he have a balaclava)

How is an impartial review going to be had, the survey is all pointing towards an agenda. NPWS are not fit for purpose and I for one have completed said survey and made that clear. They pick and choose what they want to enforce and spend the years making a mess. The curlew projects in the UK have acknowledged that the only way to ensure survival is tight predator control especially foxes and corvid. Ballydangan bog is the best example of a curlew project in Ireland, why vermin control. NPWS and their cronies in Bird Watch Ireland wont recognise that fact because the parish gun club is involved.

Between talks of re wilding the countryside, wolves, contraception for deer and badgers, asking pine martin to only eat grey squirrels, and leave the tern colony alone. Years of mismanagement in there meanswe need to start from scratch and with a new department that actually knows what its at.

Birdnuts

cavan shooter wrote: »

Great to see it coming but That survey is loaded towards NPWS becoming a separate entity with from what I can see is statutory powers. Very dangerous considering that Noonan is a card carrying animal rights activist. (wonder does he have a balaclava)

How is an impartial review going to be had, the survey is all pointing towards an agenda. NPWS are not fit for purpose and I for one have completed said survey and made that clear. They pick and choose what they want to enforce and spend the years making a mess. The curlew projects in the UK have acknowledged that the only way to ensure survival is tight predator control especially foxes and corvid. Ballydangan bog is the best example of a curlew project in Ireland, why vermin control. NPWS and their cronies in Bird Watch Ireland wont recognise that fact because the parish gun club is involved.

Between talks of re wilding the countryside, wolves, contraception for deer and badgers, asking pine martin to only eat grey squirrels, and leave the tern colony alone. Years of mismanagement in there meanswe need to start from scratch and with a new department that actually knows what its at.

No doubt about that from my experience with the Curlew project I'm involved in. Think the penny is dropping with the NPWS in recent years too as they now employ a full time keeper on the Boora Partridge project to deal with foxes,mink and corvids.

Eddie B

Be careful what you wish for

Hunter456

a wolf in sheep clothing, remember lads this man is anti hunting, these people tend to backtrack and they have a outstanding record for it.

Eddie B

Birdnuts wrote: »

No doubt about that from my experience with the Curlew project I'm involved in. Think the penny is dropping with the NPWS in recent years too as they now employ a full time keeper on the Boora Partridge project to deal with foxes,mink and corvids.

With the project I was involved with maybe ten years ago now, BWI were very much on board with vermin control. Had NPWS setting traps for mink and crows all throughout the nesting season. I remember one volunteer complaining about animal cruelty with trapping and shooting, and girl from BWI told her where to go.

richiedel123

berettaman wrote: »

Hey Lads,


Great to here that NPWS is getting a revamp as they are barely fit for purpose.
No doubt it will not make our lives as law abiding hunting people a little bit more difficult.



However I see the Minister says he is an animal rights activist, (per his Twitter feed) I hope we get a fair shake of the stick.

For many years, I’ve been a committed vegetarian and animal rights activist. However, I also believe that responsible hunting, with the correct training, oversight, equipment and licence can reduce pressures on biodiversity, in the absence of predators.

For a minister over the npws to come out with this statement for me is both frightening and worrying for the hunting fraternities.
It tells me his agenda is loaded and he is trying to cover it up by saying he is happy with responsible hunting.
All his wording is wrong !!! Correct training!!!!and licences stick out in my eyes. Does this mean we are going to have to do courses for predator control? And also is the open seasons going to be cut back so we will need licences to do this.
This minister has single handledy ****ed up everything he touched so far. From deer licences to coursing licences. I feel we are going to be in for a long few years of it when he is over the npws

Grizzly 45

Wouldn't trust these Watermelons as far as I could throw one of them...Going by their anti-hunting and gun ownership agenda that has been seen globally from NZ to the UK,I couldn't see why this lot would be any different. So let's be wary of Greeks bearing gifts here.

grassroot1

If we could act now and got a properly funded Department of Fish and Game, what areas would you like to see them responsible for?

cavan shooter

grassroot1 wrote: »

If we could act now and got a properly funded Department of Fish and Game, what areas would you like to see them responsible for?

The fish and game in the US seem to have a pretty good model. I'd be happy with a dept that actually understood hunting, fishing and conservation programs that don't seem to pander to the looney elements the "ask the predator nicely not to eat the eggs" or my favorite "magpies are bullies" no magpies are funking killers that hunt hedges in cooperation with each other.....

https://wildlife.ca.gov/

meathstevie

Eddie B wrote: »

With the project I was involved with maybe ten years ago now, BWI were very much on board with vermin control. Had NPWS setting traps for mink and crows all throughout the nesting season. I remember one volunteer complaining about animal cruelty with trapping and shooting, and girl from BWI told her where to go.

If you don’t realise that a large part of nature consists of the simple concept of “eat and be eaten” and you have a problem with the control of ubiquitous predators around a conservation or reintroduction project than I wonder what the hell you’re doing there in the first place.

cavan shooter

meathstevie wrote: »

If you don’t realise that a large part of nature consists of the simple concept of “eat and be eaten” and you have a problem with the control of ubiquitous predators around a conservation or reintroduction project than I wonder what the hell you’re doing there in the first place.

Alot of these so called conservationists are townies. They have serious problem with me shooting a pheasnt or duck but have no issue buying same pheasnt or duck in a restaurant. They are not aware, there of the ilck that milk comes from shops, they live in an unrealistic and uneducated bubble. Noonan will now push through his ultra right wing agenda. As he said he is an animal right activist, for that read...nut job

berettaman

grassroot1 wrote: »

If we could act now and got a properly funded Department of Fish and Game, what areas would you like to see them responsible for?

This is good shout in fairness.

It would be great but the mindset is not there to create it.

hunters=bad.

grassroot1

berettaman wrote: »

This is good shout in fairness.

It would be great but the mindset is not there to create it.

hunters=bad.

If we don't ask we wont know

Grizzly 45

cavan shooter wrote: »

The fish and game in the US seem to have a pretty good model. I'd be happy with a dept that actually understood hunting, fishing and conservation programs that don't seem to pander to the looney elements the "ask the predator nicely not to eat the eggs" or my favorite "magpies are bullies" no magpies are funking killers that hunt hedges in cooperation with each other.....

https://wildlife.ca.gov/

You'll get the exact same as the US F&G in Ireland. Except with no guns and maybe some sort of uniform and too much authority.
CA F&G,in fact ANY of the States F&G are just as inefficient, top-heavy with office rangers,college-trained degree totin kids with a mission to make life as difficult as possible for EVERYONE who casts a line or wants to hunt. Not to mind if possible to try and make sure anyone who has paid top dollar for a trophy animal is duped,or in "your opinion" shot an immature animal,so you can confiscate the trophy and fine them a few thousand dollars. Even if you were present at the hunt...!!! This is a notorious trick been played on hunters of bighorn or Dall sheep.
F&G is like a police force in the wilderness. All their good sensible old hands are quitting,as are park rangers,as the PC woke edness virus has infected them for years too. Seems being a fully paid-up member of the Sierra Club and Green peas is a mandatory job qualification for this lot too.
What is simply needed to improve NPWS is this;

More money to hire more seasonal part-timers[ like IFI ]does during the season that if they feel so inclined to apply for any full-time position when it becomes available.
They need boots on the ground and a presence, not degrees in the forest or more likely stuck in the office doing paperwork.
Quit looking for what looks like degree carrying ex SF troopers who are dab hands at building things for very little starting money willing to work 7days a week...That's a unicorn!

Move the fines for Game dealers out of the DC into the CC.IF GDs are putting 20k aside as a "business expense" every season, which is the max a DC can fine anyone, It needs to hit harder and their business needs to be shut down for the entire season to drive this home.

Get over the attitude that somehow someone with a lot of money shooting a Kerry red stag in Killarney national park is going to be immoral or dirty, and that they must be culled in the Killarney park by NPWS staff as some superior moral act.
If there is someone willing to pay 8K plus starting price for example[Whicjh is peanuts to some trophy hunters] for a genuine Kerry stag to hang over their mantlepiece...That's 8K plus in the NPWS kitty for one stag. Multiply that by how many must be culled every what...five years? That's a nice earner for the state/NPWs that can be reinvested into the organisation, and the park's herd.
Likewise the Phoenix park to a lesser extent. The game has to pay its way as well these days.

Eddie B

meathstevie wrote: »

If you don’t realise that a large part of nature consists of the simple concept of “eat and be eaten” and you have a problem with the control of ubiquitous predators around a conservation or reintroduction project than I wonder what the hell you’re doing there in the first place.

This was a woman in her late 60's. She spent most of her time boasting about her trips all over the world to see wildlife. From the plains of Africa, to the jungles of Brazil. All that experience, and not a bloody clue about how nature works.

berettaman

Here you go:



https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/nargc-calls-for-noonan-removal-as-npws-minister-in-letter-to-taoiseach/

For the record, I understand that NARGC asked that the NPWS be folded into Dept of Agri and there is a certain logic to that. A Minister that styles himself as an animal rights activist would not be seen as a safe pair of hands when it comes to administering deer licences etc.

When I think animal rights activist I think of hunt sabs and the like.:rolleyes:

Birdnuts

berettaman wrote: »

Here you go:



https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/nargc-calls-for-noonan-removal-as-npws-minister-in-letter-to-taoiseach/

For the record, I understand that NARGC asked that the NPWS be folded into Dept of Agri and there is a certain logic to that. A Minister that styles himself as an animal rights activist would not be seen as a safe pair of hands when it comes to administering deer licences etc.

When I think animal rights activist I think of hunt sabs and the like.:rolleyes:

TBH its probably better if the NPWS was put on a footing like the EPA ie. independent of ministerial/political interference cos the last minister to show any interest or competence in this brief was probably Michaele D 20 years ago(in terms of getting proper financing and implementing the Habitat etc. directive,associated mangement plans etc). A proper wildlife service should be based on people committed to facts and science, not animal rights wingnuts or any other type of destructive vested interest.

kunekunesika

I was waiting for the EPA comparison. It was formed for all the valid reasons given above. In all that time it has never license d or prosecuted a single state, semi state or nearly state organisation involved in the dumping of raw sewage into the avoca river in arklow? 10,000 people s worth every day for the entire history of the EPA? It has however sponsored countless TV docs by Duncan and repots documenting their oversight of the sewage?
The HSA on the other hand has agressively gone after its mandate.
Are they both based on the same model?
Which version would the npws end as? A self funded model with endless expensive parking and expensive coffee shops at its locations? And few concerts just to boost the euros?
Not sure if depends on who is in charge or how they are set up?

grassroot1

Birdnuts wrote: »

TBH its probably better if the NPWS was put on a footing like the EPA ie. independent of ministerial/political interference cos the last minister to show any interest or competence in this brief was probably Michaele D 20 years ago(in terms of getting proper financing and implementing the Habitat etc. directive,associated mangement plans etc). A proper wildlife service should be based on people committed to facts and science, not animal rights wingnuts or any other type of destructive vested interest.

I am fed up with the way sustainable hunting is treated by the powers that be, if we give NPWS a statutory footing we just get the same with no accountability
it needs to be broken up

meathstevie

grassroot1 wrote: »

I am fed up with the way sustainable hunting is treated by the powers that be, if we give NPWS a statutory footing we just get the same with no accountability
it needs to be broken up

That’s all well and good but who do you give the responsibility of granting and monitoring all the licenced activities they’re dealing with ? It’s not just the deer licences, there’s a hell of a lot of other things they deal with. Also who do you send out to deal with wildlife crime ? An already overstretched Garda force ?

Birdnuts

kunekunesika wrote: »

I was waiting for the EPA comparison. It was formed for all the valid reasons given above. In all that time it has never license d or prosecuted a single state, semi state or nearly state organisation involved in the dumping of raw sewage into the avoca river in arklow? 10,000 people s worth every day for the entire history of the EPA? It has however sponsored countless TV docs by Duncan and repots documenting their oversight of the sewage?
The HSA on the other hand has agressively gone after its mandate.
Are they both based on the same model?
Which version would the npws end as? A self funded model with endless expensive parking and expensive coffee shops at its locations? And few concerts just to boost the euros?
Not sure if depends on who is in charge or how they are set up?

Not disputing that the EPA is far from perfect - just throwing some ideas out there. Think we can all agree though that the current NPWS management model is not fit for purpose

cavan shooter

Birdnuts wrote: »

Not disputing that the EPA is far from perfect - just throwing some ideas out there. Think we can all agree though that the current NPWS management model is not fit for purpose

My concern is the review itself, its been over seen by a card carrying animal activist. If they want independent then get the likes of Farrell Grant Sparks.

JP22

berettaman wrote: »

..........When I think animal rights activist I think of hunt sabs and the like.:rolleyes:

It’s not just the hunt sabs or anti’s that’s the issue; they are just part of the overall problem.

It’s the whole other issue as perceived by others about rural affairs, rural pastimes, customs/traditions, gun ownership and the general view of guns and their use in society. This needs to be overcome also.

cookimonster

I am far from knowledgeable on wild life and rural life. I know what I know and learn as I need or go along, but I would say that I am fairly in tune with both.

I'm a lurker on a few social media groups and in particular a Facebook wildlife group. The level of ignorance is unbelievable, from not realizing that we actually had a diverse amount of wildlife (by this I don't mean the lesser spotted newts or the pink eared bat, I talking fox, badger, hare etc, etc) to 'how do I stop sparrow hawkes from killing the little birdies in my garden its soo cruel'
It is these folks who scare me as they make up a considerable numbers that vote or fill in surveys / consultation pieces. They are more deadly then the antis for many of them sit in their comfortable suburban homes with everything at hand and campaign against turf cutting, tree felling, tree planting!(love that one) , cycle lanes that go no where etc etc while crying over the persecution of foxs and corvids.
By the way those of you on Twitter, the Minstrr published the same statement on his account. One of the replies asked -

Well OK if a species like deer are multiplying out of control but what about the 14 species of Red and Amber listed birds which are in a steady decline. What is the motivation to allow their continued hunting ? Would love to know

So according to this well informed individual we as hunters are allowed to hunt protected / endangered birds?

May a higher being spare us from the compassionate.

J.R.

Capercaillie

cavan shooter wrote: »

Great to see it coming but That survey is loaded towards NPWS becoming a separate entity with from what I can see is statutory powers. Very dangerous considering that Noonan is a card carrying animal rights activist. (wonder does he have a balaclava)

How is an impartial review going to be had, the survey is all pointing towards an agenda. NPWS are not fit for purpose and I for one have completed said survey and made that clear. They pick and choose what they want to enforce and spend the years making a mess. The curlew projects in the UK have acknowledged that the only way to ensure survival is tight predator control especially foxes and corvid. Ballydangan bog is the best example of a curlew project in Ireland, why vermin control. NPWS and their cronies in Bird Watch Ireland wont recognise that fact because the parish gun club is involved.

Between talks of re wilding the countryside, wolves, contraception for deer and badgers, asking pine martin to only eat grey squirrels, and leave the tern colony alone. Years of mismanagement in there meanswe need to start from scratch and with a new department that actually knows what its at.

NPWS is a partner in Ballydangan grouse project. NPWS Curlew conservation programme works with gun clubs in different curlew core areas.

grassroot1

meathstevie wrote: »

That’s all well and good but who do you give the responsibility of granting and monitoring all the licenced activities they’re dealing with ? It’s not just the deer licences, there’s a hell of a lot of other things they deal with. Also who do you send out to deal with wildlife crime ? An already overstretched Garda force ?

1.WHY DO WE NEED A DEER LICIENCE?
2.Why would you give rangers the same powers as Gardai if a crime has been committed the Garda are the only ones that should be involved