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Linda Hayden - Social Democrats

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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    An awful lot of wokeness is entirely performative. It's adopted, not because of its inherent righteousness but for it's social cachet, political influence and opportunities for moralising. In all these ways it's very similar to the state religion in a theocracy.

    Where it's different to religion is that there seems to be absolutely no mechanism for forgiveness or redemption. Even an abject grovelling apology won't save you if you are seen to have transgressed.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Feck ya Eric!

    I was blissfully leading a monotonous life until you posted this thread. I am unable to climb out of the Twitter rabbit hole now!!!

    Today’s search I just went for “Linda Heydon” and have happened upon a whole new level of crazies!

    Today’s question - why can’t the crazies only ever have one problem at a time? I mean, can they not just have broken their arm and that’s it? In order to have a valid broken arm in The Twitterverse, you also have to have an accusation of raping your husband hanging over you by someone who has “justice” as part of their Twitter handle, an autistic son who has cancer, an elderly mother STILL, STILL, recovering from covid and a link to a political party thrown in for good luck.




    I may have exaggerated the broken arm but not the rest D


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    From a rising social democrats star to having to step down because of a series of racist tweets sent in her 30s https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/campaigner-linda-hayden-steps-down-from-social-democrats-after-racist-tweet-row-qtpq9ngcm

    to now sending pictures of a mans penis, without consent to an abuse victim : https://gript.ie/linda-hayden-dick-pics/

    not only is it tasteless and perpetrating abuse on a victim, but I'm pretty sure she's guilty under the image based sexual assault laws she championed

    Its always hiding right inside the groups that protest this stuff so much.

    The worst part is there are many on twitter asking for her to be left alone , despite her championing a witch hunt against many others.

    Gript as a source lol


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Gript as a source lol

    The source has the screenshots from Linda’s account. She tweeted those things.

    Ps: I’d never heard of gript either till this thread.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,838 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    Gript as a source lol

    This is modern "intellectualism", using the source to ignore claims made, instead of showing us why the claims aren't credible. It's simply a cheap and dishonest way of maintaining your fragile views.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    TomTomTim wrote: »
    This is modern "intellectualism", using the source to ignore claims made, instead of showing us why the claims aren't credible. It's simply a cheap and dishonest way of maintaining your fragile views.

    You've made a few assumptions here. I've read the twitter posts. I know its real. Watching the left eating their own was oozing with schadenfreude. Gript as a source is laughable regardless.

    It's only useful if you want your far right opinions fed back to you, so hardly surprising that Eric "All immigrants are criminals" Cartman wouldn't bat an eyelid using it as a source.

    It's the right wing equivalent of someone using the huffington post as a source.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,314 ✭✭✭paw patrol


    You've made a few assumptions here. I've read the twitter posts. I know its real. Watching the left eating their own was oozing with schadenfreude. Gript as a source is laughable regardless.

    It's only useful if you want your far right opinions fed back to you, so hardly surprising that Eric "All immigrants are criminals" Cartman wouldn't bat an eyelid using it as a source.

    It's the right wing equivalent of someone using the huffington post as a source.

    There was a thread on gript before - so I'm somewhat repeating (apologies if you read my previous)

    I get it that Gript slant may not suit your tastes but all media has some bias and they are no worse than others, albeit in Ireland they bat against the others.

    But where Gript really shines is that it writes stories and investigates thing that other Irish media ignore - Village and Magill cover these types of things too tbf - but it's sadly lacking.

    I linked one article before where Gript wrote about the CCP in ireland and it's connections to folks from high politics/media in ireland. There are the only ones doing this They have written about where your money is spent regarding NGOs etc.

    You mightn't like Gript but you can't deny they are a valuable source to highlight stuff ignored by the rest of the media and RTE.
    if it wasn't for Gript - the public wouldnt get a look at many stories.

    This can only be a good thing.

    Are you sure you stance isn't due to the moral/political stance of the owners /writers rather than the content itself.
    If something is untrue , point it out but don't dismiss every article cos Ben Scallen isn't your cup of tea


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,282 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    You've made a few assumptions here. I've read the twitter posts. I know its real. Watching the left eating their own was oozing with schadenfreude. Gript as a source is laughable regardless.

    It's only useful if you want your far right opinions fed back to you, so hardly surprising that Eric "All immigrants are criminals" Cartman wouldn't bat an eyelid using it as a source.

    It's the right wing equivalent of someone using the huffington post as a source.

    I have never said all immigrants are criminals,

    All illegal immigrants are criminals
    Non EU migrants over represent in most areas of criminality

    Those are facts
    But I have never said all immigrants are criminals.

    I referenced the times as a source because I like avoiding bias media like gript, but this did happen and sadly nobody else had published an article on it. Say what you like about the source, Linda posted those tweets and sent the picture of a penis without permission to a sexual abuse victim, no amount of hating John Mcguirk changes that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    There were a number worried that this would be used as fuel by the "Far-Right" to attack the Soc Dem's and the Far-Left in general.
    Rather than they focussing on the crimes themselves.

    As if preaching a holier-than-thou, moral superiority when you are really a despicable human being should exempt you from the same opprobrium you'd unleash on others for far lesser "crimes".

    I f*cking hate, f*cking HATE this utterly toxic angle so many on my side of politics take on scandals. "This will be used as propaganda by the right". So what, exactly? Cover it up? Censor reporting or sharing of it? Attack whistleblowers?

    No. Get your own f*cking house in order. If you're going to be damaged by a news story, you deserve to be damaged by it. It's as simple as that. Which side you're on in politics shouldn't matter.

    If you don't want the far right to have fuel with which to recruit new members or stir up anger amongst their existing supporters, don't do or say things you know are wrong or that you know the general public won't like. Simple as that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    Can someone explain what exactly happened between her and Ciara Kelly?

    The problem with the Twitterati is that they never link back to the backstory of what they get pissed off about, they assume everyone reading has been on the bandwagon since day one. Very confusing when you see an incident like this trending, but all you can find is the current or most recent vitriol and no backstory or originating incident.

    What's the whole saga here? Ciara Kelly and Linda Hayden were friends and fell out, and then started going through eachothers' Twitters looking for mud to sling? Is that the general gist?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,314 ✭✭✭paw patrol


    Can someone explain what exactly happened between her and Ciara Kelly?

    The problem with the Twitterati is that they never link back to the backstory of what they get pissed off about, they assume everyone reading has been on the bandwagon since day one. Very confusing when you see an incident like this trending, but all you can find is the current or most recent vitriol and no backstory or originating incident.

    What's the whole saga here? Ciara Kelly and Linda Hayden were friends and fell out, and then started going through eachothers' Twitters looking for mud to sling? Is that the general gist?

    i don't know myself but I found some guy , he seems woke enough to be in the clique


    https://twitter.com/Cobalamin11/status/1369868730906386435


    This thread is my understanding of what happened

    1/6
    4:32 AM · Mar 11, 2021·Twitter for Android
    1
    Retweet
    1
    Like
    Tip
    Oisín O'Sullivan
    @Cobalamin11
    ·
    Mar 11
    Replying to
    @Cobalamin11
    Ciara Kelly of
    @NewstalkFM cited Linda's sexual assault/rape on national radio without any permission
    Linda had told her then 79 year old father, who didn't know, to tune in to Newstalk
    Hugely upsetting to the family
    It wasn't Ciara's story to tell and she never apologised

    2/6
    Tip
    Oisín O'Sullivan
    @Cobalamin11
    ·
    Mar 11
    Furthermore, Linda as a victim of rape, would suffer from PTSD

    So imagine a wealthy woman like Ciara Kelly, who's also a former doctor(who youd expect to have compassion) threatening to sue her instead of apologising

    3/6
    Tip
    Oisín O'Sullivan
    @Cobalamin11
    ·
    Mar 11
    The thing about Ciara Kelly is she's a really bad journalist/radio presenter whose lack of sensitivity, outright arrogance & lack of remorse is indicative of Newstalk as a radio station, elitist trash

    4/6
    Tip
    Oisín O'Sullivan
    @Cobalamin11
    ·
    Mar 11
    What Linda apologised for was the so called 'defamatory' tweet but if you look at the tweet, it says "...outing my rape live on air. That's how my father found out about it"

    5/6
    Tip
    Oisín O'Sullivan
    @Cobalamin11
    ·
    Mar 11
    My impression is Linda is essentially apologising for a technicality, as would be required by law (irish libel laws that many say should be reformed), but that the person who should really be apologising for causing the added hurt & everything that followed is Ciara Kelly


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,249 ✭✭✭newhouse87


    Gript as a source lol

    I dont get this, if the article is accurate it makes no difference whatsoever of the source, its seems a deflection tactic by some to deal with the source rather than the story when its not to their liking.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The backstory (I think) is that Linda had an interview on Ciara’s radio show and that Ciara “outed” that Linda had been previously raped.
    Linda then tweeted that her dad had been listening (see post above for screenshot of tweets.

    BUT





    Linda had been giving interviews about her rape to media outlets long before the Ciara interview. Someone even posted on here a few hours ago a detailed analysis of Linda’s frame of mind and included a newspaper link where she says she’s been raped.

    FORWARD TO RECENT EVENTS


    about 2am in the morning Linda tweets an apology to Ciara retracting what she has claimed since interview.
    Her Krazy Krew lay into Ciara still saying she was forced to do it and #IStandWithLinda starts trending.
    Twitter detectives search through Linda’s old tweets and find racism, homophobia, bigotry and a sexual assault victim says she sent her dick pics. All the things Linda would despise if it was anyone but her who sent it.

    Linda closes her Twitter account and also closes the Victim Alliance website sparking questions around where funds have gone.

    I think that’s the jist.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,334 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    paw patrol wrote: »
    i don't know myself but I found some guy , he seems woke enough to be in the clique


    https://twitter.com/Cobalamin11/status/1369868730906386435



    My impression is Linda is essentially apologising for a technicality, as would be required by law (irish libel laws that many say should be reformed), but that the person who should really be apologising for causing the added hurt & everything that followed is Ciara Kelly

    I forgot to comment on this bit in my other post. I saw that fella's comments on twitter as well. It really made me laugh. He clearly has put a spin on things to try and give Hayden an excuse for her behaviour.

    Again, a small bit of research would show that the information about her rape was already in the public domain. Repeated by Lisa Hayden herself on many other platforms before Ciara Kelly mentioned it on air. So this information was already in the public domain. Hayden's real gripe seems to be that it was how her father found out listening to the radio.

    Also the person on twitter does not seem to have a notion about defamation law, and was quick to term it as technicality. It was not a technicality. Hayden basically lied and said Kelly outed her as a rape victim in public.

    But in fact it was already in the public domain.

    In defamation law this statement of Hayden's attacking Kelly - could be construed as damaging a person's reputation (namely Kelly's) in the eyes of right thinking/reasonable members of society.
    Where it is not proven to be true fact.

    That is not a 'technically' that is the whole basis of defamation law.
    The fella on twitter has a clear lack of basic knowledge, and put a spin on things to tie with an agenda.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,548 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    paw patrol wrote: »
    i don't know myself but I found some guy , he seems woke enough to be in the clique


    https://twitter.com/Cobalamin11/status/1369868730906386435



    Mar 11
    My impression is Linda is essentially apologising for a technicality, as would be required by law (irish libel laws that many say should be reformed), but that the person who should really be apologising for causing the added hurt & everything that followed is Ciara Kelly


    That twitter thread is some seriously hardcore spin from Hayden's fanclub. After the interview she took to twitter to thank Kelly for having her on, and there were no complaints about being "outed" for while after.

    It was around the time that the twitterati decided that Ciara Kelly's politics weren't acceptable to them that Hayden started making the claims (since shown to be false) that Kelly had outed her.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,334 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    blackwhite wrote: »
    That twitter thread is some seriously hardcore spin from Hayden's fanclub. After the interview she took to twitter to thank Kelly for having her on, and there were no complaints about being "outed" for while after.

    It was around the time that the twitterati decided that Ciara Kelly's politics weren't acceptable to them that Hayden started making the claims (since shown to be false) that Kelly had outed her.

    I would actually cut the Hayden some slack as she clearly seems like a troubled woman, and has major issues she needs to sort out.

    But what excuse do the gombeens on twitter have that are rallying around her? They can't all have 'issues' surely? It seems like a game been played amongst people for the fun of it.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,799 ✭✭✭✭DrumSteve


    All I'll say is that American Twitter has a hell of a lot to answer for when it comes to influencing Irish Twitter.

    Its like a whole world on there that the general public would not have a clue about. I seen the tweets posted and genuinely could not believe a grown adult would put that in the public domain.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,499 ✭✭✭✭For Forks Sake


    seamus wrote: »
    They should be critiqued for their onboarding practices though.

    Hayden was picked by the social democrats because she had a good online following, she was on the right side of social issues and had decent experience with public speaking and otherwise politiking.

    As someone who orbits the Irish Twitter mob, this is a constant issue that keeps happening to them. They are good-intentioned, but they believe that grifters and spoofers only infiltrate conservative groups. That anyone who talks about being liberal must be.

    And when someone gets exposed like this, they end up circiling the wagons, then in-fighting a lot before pretending that the individual never existed.

    My spidey sense twigged about Hayden when the victims' alliance thing kicked off. She was too much of a victim. For every discussion of assault, she knew five or six people who had been victim of that specific type of assault. She herself said she'd been attacked & raped a number of times over the years.

    At one point a high-profile government-supporting Twitter user in Ireland was being piled on over allegations of sending sexually explicit messages, and asking people for money over DM. Hayden popped up with a dossier on him, saying that she had matched with him on Tindr and been subject to his lies and abuse years previously.

    That's kind of convenient that of all the people he had matched with in the past, she was there.

    That's what I mean by "too much" of a victim. I don't doubt the veracity of any of her claims, but she always seemed too eager to have a story to tell in every situation.

    I'm sorry now I didn't say it at the time, but obviously if I had said it on Twitter, I too would have been persona non grata.

    Perfect synopsis that.

    Sort of wan that had to out-do everyone elses misery - if you said you'd lost an arm, she'd know someone who had lost two, if you mentioned knowing someone killed in a fire she'd "know" someone who had spontaneously combusted


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,799 ✭✭✭✭DrumSteve


    Perfect synopsis that.

    Sort of wan that had to out-do everyone elses misery - if you said you'd lost an arm, she'd know someone who had lost two, if you mentioned knowing someone killed in a fire she'd "know" someone who had spontaneously combusted

    Also knows as an Elevenerife.

    As in, if you went to Tenerife, they would go to Elevenerife.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,548 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    I would actually cut the Hayden some slack as she clearly seems like a troubled woman, and has major issues she needs to sort out.

    But what excuse do the gombeens on twitter have that are rallying around her? They can't all have 'issues' surely? It seems like a game been played amongst people for the fun of it.

    I'd have a degree of sympathy for her, but some of her behaviour towards others over the past 12 months has been pretty appalling and cannot be simply excused by pointing at her past. Her reported behaviour towards some other victims of sexual assault who didn't want to have their cases taken over by her and her association is particularly inexcusable.

    That said - there's very few "fair" slants on this seen anywhere on social media. There's her cheerleaders who are trying to spin everything that she's still the blameless victim in all of this, and then there's those who have been very clearly waiting for their opportunity to go after her (or her party) for some time and are only going to highlight everything negative they can about her.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,637 ✭✭✭An Claidheamh


    From a rising social democrats star to having to step down because of a series of racist tweets sent in her 30s https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/campaigner-linda-hayden-steps-down-from-social-democrats-after-racist-tweet-row-qtpq9ngcm

    to now sending pictures of a mans penis, without consent to an abuse victim : https://gript.ie/linda-hayden-dick-pics/

    not only is it tasteless and perpetrating abuse on a victim, but I'm pretty sure she's guilty under the image based sexual assault laws she championed

    Its always hiding right inside the groups that protest this stuff so much.

    The worst part is there are many on twitter asking for her to be left alone , despite her championing a witch hunt against many others.



    Soc Dems are Student Labour 2.0 in their 30s and 40s

    Holly Cairns was found out to have been behind some juvenile attention seeking tweets about promising to get plenty of abortions just for a laugh and protest

    Then she’s protesting about men

    Then she was protesting about lack of men in maternity hospitals (to prevent COVID spread)

    Then she’s protesting about greyhound sports

    Loves a good protest, bandwagon and photo op

    Inconsistent, attention seeking, a parody of themselves and crucially, never actually does anything

    Dáil and Seanad is full of people like Cairns and Hayden


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    blackwhite wrote: »
    That twitter thread is some seriously hardcore spin from Hayden's fanclub. After the interview she took to twitter to thank Kelly for having her on, and there were no complaints about being "outed" for while after.

    It was around the time that the twitterati decided that Ciara Kelly's politics weren't acceptable to them that Hayden started making the claims (since shown to be false) that Kelly had outed her.

    Jesus...we sure do live in a golden age of media and media personalities....


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,849 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    Wokus Dei wont be happy

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,594 ✭✭✭newmember2


    Was there a conviction in Linda Hayden's rape allegation?


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,334 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    blackwhite wrote: »
    I'd have a degree of sympathy for her, but some of her behaviour towards others over the past 12 months has been pretty appalling and cannot be simply excused by pointing at her past. Her reported behaviour towards some other victims of sexual assault who didn't want to have their cases taken over by her and her association is particularly inexcusable.

    That said - there's very few "fair" slants on this seen anywhere on social media. There's her cheerleaders who are trying to spin everything that she's still the blameless victim in all of this, and then there's those who have been very clearly waiting for their opportunity to go after her (or her party) for some time and are only going to highlight everything negative they can about her.

    As I said earlier, I never even heard of the woman until this thread.
    The more I read up on the whole thing the more outlandish it got.

    I was literally eating popcorn while seeing what the story was. It was strangely compelling, but extremely 'off the wall' stuff.

    The scenario, background, past, could be the basis for a short film. Physcological thriller or the likes. It is mad what goes on in corners of the internet even in a small country like Ireland. And this is not even the 'dark web'.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,261 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    An awful lot of wokeness is entirely performative. It's adopted, not because of its inherent righteousness but for it's social cachet, political influence and opportunities for moralising. In all these ways it's very similar to the state religion in a theocracy.

    Where it's different to religion is that there seems to be absolutely no mechanism for forgiveness or redemption. Even an abject grovelling apology won't save you if you are seen to have transgressed.

    In the 60's Irish society was not considered religious but highly pious. Things really haven't changed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,548 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    As I said earlier, I never even heard of the woman until this thread.
    The more I read up on the whole thing the more outlandish it got.

    I was literally eating popcorn while seeing what the story was. It was strangely compelling, but extremely 'off the wall' stuff.

    The scenario, background, past, could be the basis for a short film. Physcological thriller or the likes. It is mad what goes on in corners of the internet even in a small country like Ireland. And this is not even the 'dark web'.

    The twitter algorithm used have her tweets popping up on my feed from time to time - usually it was either defending some shocking behaviour from someone who shared her views, or rabidly attacking someone who didn't share her views. No room for middle ground or nuance.

    That inspired me to jump down the rabbithole when I saw her name trending last week - wondering what the next twist in the tale would be


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,334 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    newmember? wrote: »
    Was there a conviction in Linda Hayden's rape allegation?

    Hayden never even attempted to start the process of reporting the allegation of rape. Nevermind any convictions

    (Irish Times 2019)

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/ireland-has-a-rape-culture-woman-who-was-assaulted-calls-for-more-victim-protection-1.4033034

    She gave the following logic for not doing so even after 20 years have passed since the alleged incident:

    "Writing on Twitter this week to mark the anniversary of what happened to her,
    Linda Hayden said she never reported it to gardaí then, or since,
    saying she refused to give her attackers “power over me”.

    So in effect if her allegation of been drugged and raped is true. There are dangerous men who have previously drugged and raped a woman, freely walking the streets for 20 years.

    That is not really providing protection for other rape victims at all, as they could rape again. The irony is not lost on me, given Hayen's advocating for the 'protection' of rape victims. What about potential future rape victims from those two men?

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,325 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    Fair dues to gript, they got her good and proper. Also quite cleverly they kept the story going over a few different articles giving her and the people on 'her side' enough rope to make it worse.
    I'd be a lefty liberal type who hates the editorial angle of gript, but you'd have to doff the cap at an investigative job well done.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    In the 60's Irish society was not considered religious but highly pious. Things really haven't changed.

    Then as now, those who practice histrionic piety are invariably headed for a scandal as their hypocrisy eats away at them.


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