Physical Assaults & bullies...

BronsonTB

When will there be a zero tolerance & a proper punishment given to physical bullies?


The level of tolerance here to these incidents is really really disheartening.



They may be juveniles but enough is enough.

They should have repercussions that adversely affect them to show they cannot get away with assaulting someone, whatever the reason.


Just a sample but post is not limited to just this particular inciden but can apply to so many others year after year.

https://www.msn.com/en-ie/news/world/boy-15-suffers-serious-injuries-after-being-lured-to-vicious-assault/ar-BB1eBhbY?li=BBr5HCU

Also see Garda were assaulted trying to enforce the covid rules - 2 so far have been charged over this
https://www.rte.ie/news/ulster/2021/0314/1203944-donegal/

biko

That's not a bully situation imo. It's an attack and needs to lead to criminal charges.

Gregor Samsa

It also only happened last night, and the victim hasn't even been able to give a statement yet. Bit premature to be talking about deficiencies in the legal outcome when there hasn't been a chance for one to even occur.

BronsonTB

Sorry maybe my OP post wasn't explaining correctly ..

It's more about the social tolerance that assaults occur & perpertrators are not adequately punished with any kind of proper deterrent not to.

These stories come up all the time yet nothing is being done to stamp it out...

Anyone under 18 seems to be above the law no matter how they assault someone. (Individual or gang)

Teenage gangs seem to a problem with no one tackling them head on. Law is on their side rather than the victims, and that just seems completely wrong to me..
(Don't want to over reference the link as it's an ongoing investigation...it's more the principle I'm talking about for discussion here.

SEPT 23 1989

I would class that as attempted murder

Sam Quentin

The poor young-fella. Honestly

Princess Calla

Absolutely horrific.

Very similar to the homophobic attack in coolock a few years ago and I think fairview park many years ago.

Gregor Samsa

Princess Calla wrote: »

Very similar to the homosexual attack in coolock a few years ago and I think fairview park many years ago.

I think you mean homophobic attack.

Princess Calla

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

I think you mean homophobic attack.

Oh sh1te yes

Trigger Happy

The Gardai arrived when called by members of the public who witnessed the assault. So there was a reaction and then action to this attack and not tolerance of it.
The gardai have said they are confident of making an arrest. Bit early to be saying that the attackers will not be adequately punished?

Augme

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

I would class that as attempted murder

Unless they cracked him around the head with the bars then that's very difficult to say.

Strumms

BronsonTB wrote: »

Sorry maybe my OP post wasn't explaining correctly ..

It's more about the social tolerance that assaults occur & perpertrators are not adequately punished with any kind of proper deterrent not to.

These stories come up all the time yet nothing is being done to stamp it out...

Anyone under 18 seems to be above the law no matter how often the assault someone.

Teenage gangs seem to a problem with no one tackling them head on. Law is on their side rather than the victims, and that just seems completely wrong to me..
(Don't want to over reference the link as it's an ongoing investigation...it's more the principle I'm talking about for discussion here.

Completely.

The law as it applies to young people now is no sort of a deterrent. That’s why these incidents are occurring. There is seemingly nobody in political or the upper echelons of legal life who are advocating tougher and appropriate punishments for young violent offenders. They will of course be the first in the Q with a litany of excuses... fûck the victims... but rush to help the aggressors and perpetrators.

The courts and politicians don’t seem to have anybody standing up for victims and society at large..it will get worse before better.

BronsonTB

Trigger Happy wrote: »

The Gardai arrived when called by members of the public who witnessed the assault. So there was a reaction and then action to this attack and not tolerance of it.
The gardai have said they are confident of making an arrest. Bit early to be saying that the attackers will not be adequately punished?

Hope the public recorded footage of the faces of actual attackers to help at least have them identified in that case.


My thread is more about 'attackers' in general are never punished enough to deter this from happening time & time again...
(Maybe my error to reference the link in the first post as I would not want to jeopardize any prosecution in that specific case )



It feels like only those caught over 18 can actually be given justice...
(And those under 18 know this & carry out assaults as they want)

Strumms

Trigger Happy wrote: »

The Gardai arrived when called by members of the public who witnessed the assault. So there was a reaction and then action to this attack and not tolerance of it.
The gardai have said they are confident of making an arrest. Bit early to be saying that the attackers will not be adequately punished?

Over the last few years we have seen...

A Garda attacked and assaulted... suspended sentences

Eddie Farnan... beat the living fûck out of his girlfriend, threatened to kill her, trashed her place... all while a small baby was present, what happened?... suspended sentence... she was punched, kicked, dragged around the room by her hair..

62% of incidents of domestic violence incidents end up with a judge handing down a suspended sentence..

Opera Lane attack in Cork where the victims were set upon and repeatedly kicked in the head... suspended sentence..

The law is no sort of deterrent... it just more like an industry now.. full of careerist cheats.

Ireland in 2021, bullies prosper...

Trigger Happy

Strumms wrote: »

Over the last few years we have seen...

A Garda attacked and assaulted... suspended sentences

Eddie Farnan... beat the living fûck out of his girlfriend, threatened to kill her, trashed her place... all while a small baby was present, what happened?... suspended sentence... she was punched, kicked, dragged around the room by her hair..

62% of incidents of domestic violence incidents end up with a judge handing down a suspended sentence..

Opera Lane attack in Cork where the victims were set upon and repeatedly kicked in the head... suspended sentence..

The law is no sort of deterrent... it just more like an industry now.. full of careerist cheats.

And they would be better examples of lax sentencing than an assault that happened yesterday.
Completely agree with your point about lax sentencing been no deterrent does directly cause issues like what happened yesterday to reoccur.

Potential-Monke

As someone who was bullied quite often in school, yes, I think more should be done. I've been in more physical fights than I can remember before the age of 18. I was the small red head, so obviously "prime" choice for bullies. When I was in 6th class, I fought every boy in 5th and 6th class (won some of them). Then in secondary up until 6th year, I was picked on quite a bit too, less so over the years but it took me throwing a table at someone to make it stop completely.

Black eyes, bruises, cut lips, luckily no more than that. If I was to judge then by todays standards, the words would be far worse. "It just happens" was the going excuse. No one was ever suspended or anything like that when caught (I ain't no snitch... because I'd get beat up worse if I was). I actually got suspended twice for defending myself (I wasn't an angel, but I wasn't a thug type either, just wanted to have fun).

Can school yards have CCTV? Because if not, there's no fair way to pick who was at fault without witness reports, which most school age people won't give. Maybe it has changed since the late 90's, I hope so. But what do you do? Suspend/expel them, then they have to go to another school if one is available. It's also 2021, I'm sure a school would get in trouble for kicking someone out, regardless of the reason, and be accused of stealing teh childs future or something.

I still to this day firmly believe the sticks and stones saying. Words should never hurt more than physical violence, because it's just words, and we should be teaching that, reinforcing it's just words and it's up to you if they harm you or not. Smarter people than me can't seem to figure this out, I haven't a hope!

Graces7

[QUOTE=Potential-Monke;116593753

I still to this day firmly believe the sticks and stones saying. Words should never hurt more than physical violence, because it's just words, and we should be teaching that, reinforcing it's just words and it's up to you if they harm you or not. Smarter people than me can't seem to figure this out, I haven't a hope![/QUOTE]


disagree. words have massive and lasting, enduring power to damage. no such thing as " just words". They are utterly powerful. I can still " hear" some things that were said decades ago. Words damage the mind and soul. Far deeper. And look at the upset posts here can cause.

The rhyme you quote actually means the opposite of what you think it means! It is a defiant attempt to deny the hurt done by words.

Strumms

From a law point of view I don’t know if it’s legal..google isn’t being very assisting.

My guess is yes... cctv is in use in thousands of public places where there are children already. Therefore there is no reasonable reason that I can make out as to why it couldn’t or shouldn’t be used in schools....

There would of course need to be records, training etc and restrictions on who can access it when and how...

Potential-Monke

Graces7 wrote: »

disagree. words have massive and lasting, enduring power to damage. no such thing as " just words". They are utterly powerful. I can still " hear" some things that were said decades ago. Words damage the mind and soul. Far deeper. And look at the upset posts here can cause.

The rhyme you quote actually means the opposite of what you think it means! It is a defiant attempt to deny the hurt done by words.

But this is my point. Why? Why do we allow such weight to what are, just words? Because we allow it. We should be training kids against such thinking, strengthen the mind, instead of telling them that words are the worst. I'm not talking about vitirol, or hate, or the kinds of things supposed loved partners say to each other, or the mental gymnastics they do to undermine or control people, I'm on about school yard taunting and bullying.

I do know what you're saying, and I experience it myself at times still. But the current way of treating words as nuclear bombs is wrong. Yes, we need people to be aware that their choice of words can cause hurt, but we also need to learn to take those words and deal with them. That's what I had to do when I was young in order to stop taunts and verbal bullying to not affect me. Just words, same as anyone saying anything. I removed the weight from them and they stopped hurting. I know everyone deals with things differently, but I honestly believe we need to teach people how to deal with words.

pgj2015

Potential-Monke wrote: »

But this is my point. Why? Why do we allow such weight to what are, just words? Because we allow it. We should be training kids against such thinking, strengthen the mind, instead of telling them that words are the worst. I'm not talking about vitirol, or hate, or the kinds of things supposed loved partners say to each other, or the mental gymnastics they do to undermine or control people, I'm on about school yard taunting and bullying.

I do know what you're saying, and I experience it myself at times still. But the current way of treating words as nuclear bombs is wrong. Yes, we need people to be aware that their choice of words can cause hurt, but we also need to learn to take those words and deal with them. That's what I had to do when I was young in order to stop taunts and verbal bullying to not affect me. Just words, same as anyone saying anything. I removed the weight from them and they stopped hurting. I know everyone deals with things differently, but I honestly believe we need to teach people how to deal with words.

I agree, the people who use words to upset or insult you are always people I have no respect for, they are usually a piece of dirt so I just laugh to myself about them and their sad lives. That is why I cant understand why the likes of shane duffy and james mcclean let the twitter idiots get to them.

I also never understood why kids who are being bullied on facebook stay on facebook, its a waste of time anyway but especially so if it beings you so much grief from bullies.

Gregor Samsa

pgj2015 wrote: »

I also never understood why kids who are being bullied on facebook stay on facebook, its a waste of time anyway but especially so if it beings you so much grief from bullies.

It's because one of the most difficult things for many kids is the feeling (or fear) that they don't fit in. To deliberately exclude yourself from an environment that everyone else is participating in, no matter how toxic, can be exceptionally difficult for some kids. You see everyone else posting up the "best bits" of their life, and to be faced with the prospect that your experience on it is entirely negative is can feel like the failure is yours.

It's very easy to look back as a mature adult and say "why do they care what others think?", and building resilience is certainly part of the defence against bullying, but it can't be denied that yearning for acceptance is an integral part of human psychology and development - particularly in children, teens and young adults - and something that bullies readily exploit.

pgj2015

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

It's because one of the most difficult things for many kids is the feeling (or fear) that they don't fit in. To deliberately exclude yourself from an environment that everyone else is participating in, no matter how toxic, can be exceptionally difficult for some kids. You see everyone else posting up the "best bits" of their life, and to be faced with the prospect that your experience on it is entirely negative is can feel like the failure is yours.

It's very easy to look back as a mature adult and say "why do they care what others think?", and building resilience is certainly part of the defence against bullying, but it can't be denied that yearning for acceptance is an integral part of human psychology and development - particularly in children, teens and young adults - and something that bullies readily exploit.

I was the same when I was in school, if I didnt like someone I wouldnt stay anywhere near them. even if I looked uncool or whatever. I think it is important that the kids know to get off social media if being bullied on it. I know loads of kids have killed themselves over online bullying which is really sad.

Potential-Monke

The problem is that society is expecting kids and teens to be part of social media, and everywhere you look it's references to social media. You'd need to stop businesses using Facebook, Instagram, etc to advertise their businesses, but that won't happen either. We're in a circle of this now, and only education will stop it. That starts at home and in schools imo, and both those areas can be quite lacking for a lot. Technology/social media is a distraction for kids/teens and as a result some peace and quietness for disinterested/lazy parents.

Then again, we live in a world where a potato based toy is offensive while WAP is considered powerful. World is fukked.