My daughter is "driving" me nuts

homer911

My daughter is 27 years old. She has had a learner permit for years. She has done her test a number of times. She had a professional driving instructor for quite a while bit not for the last three years. For a while she would ask me to take her out, then she stopped and I started asking her - got all sorts of excuses. Eventually I said it was up to her, but there was no way of passing a test without practice. Every time I do go out with her, which is not very frequent, we seem to start from scratch again. The level of mistakes she is making with the amount of driving time she has had is unreal. I point out her mistakes and she repeats them immediately. I'm at the end of my tether with her. Nobody else in the family will take her out and provide constructive advice. Her mistakes are so basic that she would be throwing her money away to pay a professional driving instructor (again!) So far she has survived work-wise by using public transport but this is rapidly going to become an issue for her.

Just so this doesn't sound like a rant, here are some examples

• Selecting 3rd gear instead of 1st
• Staying too long in 1st gear
• Staying way too long in 2nd gear
• Short-cutting on bends - not staying in the centre of the lane
• Accelerating into slow moving traffic/red lights
• Not observing other cars and signage
• Not getting into the correct lane early
• Veering while changing gear

Any advice? Is there any hope?:(

Edit: I should have added that I try and be as positive as possible - anything she does well I do acknowledge, but all she hears is the criticism, and unfortunately there is quite a lot of it

Plumbthedepths

Any advice?
Personally I don't believe it's your place to make sure a 27 year old learns to drive.
Let her sort herself out. Apologies if blunt but again she's an adult.

punisher5112

Auto, she can't handle the gears now and all those mistakes, she needs less to be working on.

Leave her off, some just will never drive..

Larbre34

Let someone else instruct her. Family are always a bad idea.

is_that_so

Larbre34 wrote: »

Let someone else instruct her. Family are always a bad idea.

Absolutely, also OP could just limit themselves to taking her somewhere where they can just go up and down the gears as she clearly hasn't got the mechanical memory right in her head yet.

degsie

Tough call, but 27!! Not your responsibility tbh. Some people have it or they don't. Roads might be a little bit safer in the end.

Varik

Most people won't instantly correct a mistake once told and it'd take a while for it to sink in, and then if any progress is made if there's a large amount of time between lessons then she really is going back to zero each time.

30 minutes or even an hour every few weeks is practically useless. Even if it's not all that frequent, each lesson has to be longer to actual have an impact.

Going by friends and relatives, and comparing those who got their licence (or still trying) before and after the changes to require them being accompanied it's made it far harder now. Before you get the learners pay a fortune in insurance and get their eventually as you'd have time behind the wheel.

Oranage2

I don't know op, seems like most of the problems will be ironed out with practice, if you're worried about her safety then you could also get her a toy car and let her practice out the back garden

Ash.J.Williams

homer911 wrote: »

My daughter is 27 years old. She has had a learner permit for years. She has done her test a number of times. She had a professional driving instructor for quite a while bit not for the last three years. For a while she would ask me to take her out, then she stopped and I started asking her - got all sorts of excuses. Eventually I said it was up to her, but there was no way of passing a test without practice. Every time I do go out with her, which is not very frequent, we seem to start from scratch again. The level of mistakes she is making with the amount of driving time she has had is unreal. I point out her mistakes and she repeats them immediately. I'm at the end of my tether with her. Nobody else in the family will take her out and provide constructive advice. Her mistakes are so basic that she would be throwing her money away to pay a professional driving instructor (again!) So far she has survived work-wise by using public transport but this is rapidly going to become an issue for her.

Just so this doesn't sound like a rant, here are some examples

• Selecting 3rd gear instead of 1st
• Staying too long in 1st gear
• Staying way too long in 2nd gear
• Short-cutting on bends - not staying in the centre of the lane
• Accelerating into slow moving traffic/red lights
• Not observing other cars and signage
• Not getting into the correct lane early
• Veering while changing gear

Any advice? Is there any hope?:(

Edit: I should have added that I try and be as positive as possible - anything she does well I do acknowledge, but all she hears is the criticism, and unfortunately there is quite a lot of it

Go for the pass paper ie the automatic car test and eliminate half of the errors

rdwight

punisher5112 wrote: »

Auto, she can't handle the gears now and all those mistakes, she needs less to be working on.

Leave her off, some just will never drive..

I'd look into learning/doing test on automatic. Separate one set of skills (gear selection etc) from another (handling car).

I think it used to be that if you could do test in automatic but were then only licenced to drive in automatic.

wonski

rdwight wrote: »

I'd look into learning/doing test on automatic. Separate one set of skills (gear selection etc) from another (handling car).

I think it used to be that if you could do test in automatic but were then only licenced to drive in automatic.

If you pass in auto you are only licensed to drive auto.

Turbohymac

Ho op as past posters have already said..don't take her out as with someone that she knows too well she's just going to wind them round her finger and certainly won't correct her mistakes..
Best thing would be to look up a very good driving instructor and get him/her to give her an intensive course of lessons beginning at Absolute basics.
Otherwise she's not going to listen and learn and possibly figures once she manages to avoid crashing and gets the car back home relatively in one piece that she's a good driver..
If she's going to succeed I don't think theres any other way..and a driving license is a basic issue that could effect her in later life .for work and social.
Good luck

Treppen

Just needs more practice. Maybe on a proper learning course. Like mondello.

Repetition is the only way.

Also an older car she should hear the revs better for when to change gear.

Sounds like you might be bringing her on a windy long journey with too many challenges / mistakes, if anything, she's just consolidating all these mistakes.

Go to empty car park. Use the boxes where people park as targets, let her choose at the start.
Practice one thing many times:
Start
1st gear
2nd gear
Slow
Down to 1st gear
Stop

Even just sit in the car and shout out the gear and she goes up and down sitting out the numbers to get to it.

First thing my dad thought me was to reverse into boxes in an empty car park.

bliger

"If you pass in auto you are only licensed to drive auto." which is good. +1 for automatic

Treppen

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Any advice?
Personally I don't believe it's your place to make sure a 27 year old learns to drive.
Let her sort herself out. Apologies if blunt but again she's an adult.

We'll look, a good qualified teacher should be able to iron out any errors.
But not everyone can afford buckets of lessons (but I would advise some).

But if he's her father then he's every right to help her out if she wants.

Ash.J.Williams

wonski wrote: »

If you pass in auto you are only licensed to drive auto.

Perfect so

ByTheSea2019

When I started I sometimes accidentally selected third instead of first. I was given a tip to push the gear stick fully over to the left and then forward which worked instantly (as long as that's not where reverse is on your car!)

Anything to do with obeservation and accelerating into slow traffic, I would really emphasize that this is basic safety and the seriousness of what could happen if she doesn't.

The staying in low gears thing - If she can't naturally hear/feel the point at which the car needs to be moved into the next gear, maybe you could suggest around what speed, but that's not perfect because it will depend on incline.

Get her to learn automatic, its less to think about and easier to concentrate on other areas. The way things are going Manual will be a thing of the past soon anyway.

Cee-Jay-Cee

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Any advice?
Personally I don't believe it's your place to make sure a 27 year old learns to drive.
Let her sort herself out. Apologies if blunt but again she's an adult.

Your clearly not a parent.

It might not be his place but he’s trying to help his daughter as any father would.

I would also recommend an auto. It’s irrelevant if your limited to an auto because with EVs and hybrids becoming more dominant, autos are going to be the only option available anyway.

Plumbthedepths

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

Your clearly not a parent.

Damn I have raised someone else's son's for the last 30 years, thanks I must ask the wife who is the father of the two men I call my son's.
Do you always make assumptions about random people on the net?

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

Fair at for being supportive etc, very nice of you if anyone hasn't said it yet !

I'm with the others , maybe learning to drive an auto first will be half the battle. She can focus on road safety and not getting the correct great, see how she gets on then. She might even enjoy driving with less hassle and get into it ;

ThreeGreens

Often we are our own best teachers, and the teacher is only there for guidance. By this I mean you might have to let her make her own mistakes so that she learns from them herself.

But this is very difficult for most people to do, because:

a) they fear she will damage their car and
b) because they fear she will crash the car.

These are valid concerns, that you can't really get around.

BUT, they don't apply so much to a driving instructor. Their car has dual controls. So they can let the student go much further into the mistake (and hopefully correct it themselves) before they need to take over, knowing that they can indeed take over if necessary.

So you are (necessarily) pointing our her mistakes and telling her what to do so that she can learn, but also so that she doesn't crash. She probably experiences it as a constant stream of criticism, and hates the experience. That makes her more nervous and makes it harder for her to learn, as she's not in a receptive place. Also it means that she doesn't want to go and practice as it's not a nice experience. Therefore the there is too much time between the lessons.

Best thing to do is find a good driving instructor. She can save up the money so that she can do a lot of lessons in a short period of time. She'll be less stressed as it's "not dad", and she can learn from her own mistakes as the driving instructor can let her make those mistakes without fear, and she can do more lessons in a shorter space of time.

Darc19

Automatic all the way.

She simply has a fear of gears.
My wife was the same. 3 years of frustrating lessons and teaching and excuses not to try.

Got her to try an automatic and she had a full license 3 months later and has never looked back. She now has over 15 years of incident free driving.

The J Stands for Jay

degsie wrote: »

Tough call, but 27!! Not your responsibility tbh. Some people have it or they don't. Roads might be a little bit safer in the end.

I was once told that after the age of 25/26, women will struggle to learn to drive. The story goes that past that age, it's more difficult to learn anything for both sexes but driving is a 'male' activity so even harder for a woman who's too old to learn to master.

I thought it was guff, but relevant guff here.

Edit: relevant only in that the ages sort of match up. Still total guff.

Nekarsulm

Go for an auto gearbox.
Not everyone has the mechanical sympathy and coordination for clutch/trottle/gearlever .
Mind you some manufacturers have far more "precise" gearboxes than others.

wandererz

Most new cars these days are automatic.
Even with the luxury brands the standard is never to get manual.

EV's are what she will be driving soon enough.
No use messing with manual in this day and age.

This coming from someone with 25 years of manual experience.

My husband is 33 and drives the same way, or did until he failed his test and refused to drive again. I found from going places with him that he was not actually taking anything in, from me or from his instructors. If I gave him blow by blow direction, such as "first gear, second gear, check your mirror, indicate", he could do it just fine. But if I got distracted, he was liable to pull out into oncoming traffic almost causing a smash, only to blame me for not looking. I honestly was taking it far too much for granted that he knew to look both ways, check his mirrors etc. Or if I told him we would need to change lanes, was liable to go "Ok!" and just slide straight across, only swerving back when the horns started blaring. I realised fairly quickly that he simply wasn't thinking for himself because he didn't have to. There was always someone looking out for him to stop him making simple mistakes.
So when he said "I never want to drive again" I honestly said "Thanks be to jaysus" and accepted that no bother. At least, not with me as his accompanying driver. I will probably insist he takes lessons again when things get back to "normal".

MascotDec85

She should really go to an ADI. We’re trained to help people with the very issues you describe. Private practice is fine and is if real benefit and we might explain things in a better way which helps things click into place. There are loads of little tricks we can use or show her which will help eradicate her problems.

Having taught my own daughter to drive from scratch it wasn’t easy, even as an ADI so fair play to you for trying but it really does sound like a job for the right expert

Rodin

homer911 wrote: »

My daughter is 27 years old. She has had a learner permit for years. She has done her test a number of times. She had a professional driving instructor for quite a while bit not for the last three years. For a while she would ask me to take her out, then she stopped and I started asking her - got all sorts of excuses. Eventually I said it was up to her, but there was no way of passing a test without practice. Every time I do go out with her, which is not very frequent, we seem to start from scratch again. The level of mistakes she is making with the amount of driving time she has had is unreal. I point out her mistakes and she repeats them immediately. I'm at the end of my tether with her. Nobody else in the family will take her out and provide constructive advice. Her mistakes are so basic that she would be throwing her money away to pay a professional driving instructor (again!) So far she has survived work-wise by using public transport but this is rapidly going to become an issue for her.

Just so this doesn't sound like a rant, here are some examples

• Selecting 3rd gear instead of 1st
• Staying too long in 1st gear
• Staying way too long in 2nd gear
• Short-cutting on bends - not staying in the centre of the lane
• Accelerating into slow moving traffic/red lights
• Not observing other cars and signage
• Not getting into the correct lane early
• Veering while changing gear

Any advice? Is there any hope?:(

Edit: I should have added that I try and be as positive as possible - anything she does well I do acknowledge, but all she hears is the criticism, and unfortunately there is quite a lot of it

27 and still on a learner permit?
Your description doesn't sound like she gets driving at all.
Some people are just not drivers and we need to be protected from them.

atilladehun

Definitely go for the automatic. My sister was sharp enough to call it for herself even when everyone else kept telling her she'd miss the gears. Nearly 20 years later she's never missed it and is a decent driver. Now loads of people I know drive automatics.

She's struggling to carefully run the car. The mechanical process if affecting her ability to manage the safety aspects. This should never be the case. It's now causing added stress.

If you can convince her to change her car and take a couple of official lessons with a good instructor I'm sure you'll see her confidence increase.

Rodin

Rodin wrote: »

27 and still on a learner permit?

I didn't get my first provisional until mid 30s and full licence at 37. Not everyone has a need or a desire to be a driver when young, and that's before we take the cost into consideration. The amount of weird looks and openly hostile reactions I used to get, as if you're not a real adult because you don't drive. Your comment above is exactly in the same vein.

Maybe keep that kinda comment in check, you never know who's frequenting this forum and what their ages might be. People can be conscious enough already without that sorta crap.

Posy

I passed my test at 34, so agree with that completely!

MascotDec85 wrote: »

it really does sound like a job for the right expert

I had every issue the OP has listed, and more!
With the help of a brilliant, dedicated and very patient ADI, I passed in a manual car on the second attempt. It's just a matter of putting the hours in, probably not fun at the moment with masks etc, but it's achievable with the right instructor.

My instructor upgraded his car just after I passed, and I joke that it's actually just my lessons that paid for it. :pac:

Ash.J.Williams

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Any advice?
Personally I don't believe it's your place to make sure a 27 year old learns to drive.
Let her sort herself out. Apologies if blunt but again she's an adult.

I’d bury a body for my daughter

MascotDec85

Posy wrote: »

I passed my test at 34, so agree with that completely! I had every issue the OP has listed, and more!
With the help of a brilliant, dedicated and very patient ADI, I passed in a manual car on the second attempt. It's just a matter of putting the hours in, probably not fun at the moment with masks etc, but it's achievable with the right instructor.

My instructor upgraded his car just after I passed, and I joke that it's actually just my lessons that paid for it. :pac:

Spot on. The right ADI can make a huge difference. I’d a woman, mid 40s who came to me in April 2019 having previously failed 17 tests. The 17th test she had 17 clutch faults amongst other issues. After 3 months and around 12 hrs with me AND her own determination she passed on the 18th attempt. Zero clutch faults and only 3 Grade 2s. I actually asked her why she hadn’t given up and went automatic. It wasn’t a suggestion, I was just curious. She told me her husband drive auto but she didn’t want to and was determined to pass in a manual.

In the 10 or so years I’m instructing that was up there in the top 5 of satisfying passes.

LorelaiG

Treppen wrote: »

Just needs more practice. Maybe on a proper learning course. Like mondello.

Repetition is the only way.

Also an older car she should hear the revs better for when to change gear.

Sounds like you might be bringing her on a windy long journey with too many challenges / mistakes, if anything, she's just consolidating all these mistakes.

Go to empty car park. Use the boxes where people park as targets, let her choose at the start.
Practice one thing many times:
Start
1st gear
2nd gear
Slow
Down to 1st gear
Stop

Even just sit in the car and shout out the gear and she goes up and down sitting out the numbers to get to it.

First thing my dad thought me was to reverse into boxes in an empty car park.

I wasn't taught how to drive hearing the revs of the cer. I was taught that 0-17/18km 1st, 20-30km 2nd, 30-40km 3rd, 40-60km 4th and over 60km is 5th.

It stood well to me.

LorelaiG

Rodin wrote: »

27 and still on a learner permit?
Your description doesn't sound like she gets driving at all.
Some people are just not drivers and we need to be protected from them.

I was on a learner permit until I was 33. It's not as easy for some. Chill

antix80

Automatic seems like a good idea at this stage. She's probably so busy struggling with gears she's not even watching the road.

Mimon

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

I’d bury a body for my daughter

Weird

punisher5112

Mimon wrote: »

Weird

Probably after she ran them over

Mimon

Mimon wrote: »

Weird

Not really.......my eldest is 27 & she still wraps me round the finger......Mrs Mc let's rip at her but I never could.....its just the 1st Daughter.....they get a "pass" for some reason

wandererz

wandererz wrote: »

Most new cars these days are automatic.
Even with the luxury brands the standard is never to get manual.

EV's are what she will be driving soon enough.
No use messing with manual in this day and age.

This coming from someone with 25 years of manual experience.

Wife got the Peugeot3008 in Jan, oldest Daughter got corolla last month- both auto. By coincidence I drove both cars at weekend

---

it IS the way to go--- I love my old xtrail ( 2012) but I now see that'll be the LAST manual car I'll ever have.... another few years & majority of cars will be auto. I always thought the autos would be 'thirsty' but the guage on the Peugeot never seems to move

punisher5112

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Wife got the Peugeot3008 in Jan, oldest Daughter got corolla last month- both auto. By coincidence I drove both cars at weekend

---

it IS the way to go--- I love my old xtrail ( 2012) but I now see that'll be the LAST manual car I'll ever have.... another few years & majority of cars will be auto. I always thought the autos would be 'thirsty' but the guage on the Peugeot never seems to move

That was older automatic... Mostly now auto are more fuel efficient.

sadie1502

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Not really.......my eldest is 27 & she still wraps me round the finger......Mrs Mc let's rip at her but I never could.....its just the 1st Daughter.....they get a "pass" for some reason

Dunno bout that. I'm first daughter too but wasn't given a pass if I was blatantly in the wrong. But I know I'm still my dads favourite child )

sadie1502

Mimon wrote: »

Weird

I concur.

silver2020

MascotDec85 wrote: »

Spot on. The right ADI can make a huge difference. I’d a woman, mid 40s who came to me in April 2019 having previously failed 17 tests. The 17th test she had 17 clutch faults amongst other issues. After 3 months and around 12 hrs with me AND her own determination she passed on the 18th attempt. Zero clutch faults and only 3 Grade 2s. I actually asked her why she hadn’t given up and went automatic. It wasn’t a suggestion, I was just curious. She told me her husband drive auto but she didn’t want to and was determined to pass in a manual.

In the 10 or so years I’m instructing that was up there in the top 5 of satisfying passes.

so if she wasn't as stubborn as a mule do you reckon she would have passed on test 2 with an automatic?

sadie1502

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

I’d bury a body for my daughter

Extremely weird.

wandererz

Sunday i drove Dublin - Sligo.
Monday i drove Sligo- Letterkenny - Dublin

That's 650kms+ according to the odometer.
I did that in an automatic and i did not regret it.

Separately

Learning to drive requires hand, leg & eye co-ordination plus whatever is going on in the brain about wondering why this, if that, etc.
It can be too much for some people. I was lucky that i passed both my drivers licenses in the US and Ireland with no problems.
Left hand, right hand drive etc.

However, ask me to learn to ski in the normal way ... with no urgency at all ... or to pass a ski test ... and i cannot do it.
It's too much co-ordination and effort required. It will come to me eventually, when i have figured it all out myself. But not before then.

Different people have different ways of doing and learning things.
Sometimes one needs to adopt a different way of looking at these things and look at alternatives.

Sheepdish1

I did driving test years after getting provisional license and picked up a some bad habits. I got a fantastic instructor and paid for maybe 6 lessons until he felt I was ready to do the test. (He felt at that stage I may pass it)

Anyway, I failed first time and immediately booked in with instructor to work on specific issues and recap on what I needed to learn and got a cancellation test so I could do it soon rather than leave too much time....I did this previously after failing and just didn’t book test when left too long.

I passed the test the second time around but it involved paying for an instructor weekly, practicing myself every time I drove, booking a driving test, failing it, booking the same driving instructor to help with issues I failed on and then booking cancellation. I don’t think I would have passed being taught by someone who wasn’t an instructor. I think it’s good the test is so thorough

MascotDec85

silver2020 wrote: »

so if she wasn't as stubborn as a mule do you reckon she would have passed on test 2 with an automatic?

good question.

homer911

Thanks for sharing your thoughts everyone, the views are quite black and white. I'm concerned about the lack of progress, or how quickly she seems to forget all the advice given. Access to personal transport will be a must for work, she has been fortunate up to now. My wife has a BEV so we could certainly consider the automatic option, but that's only part of the issue. It doesn't help that she is my oldest child and the others have passed their tests (so I do have plenty of experience teaching them!)

After our last outing she is not talking to me at the moment - we'll see what happens

Mimon

Deleted User wrote: »

Not really.......my eldest is 27 & she still wraps me round the finger......Mrs Mc let's rip at her but I never could.....its just the 1st Daughter.....they get a "pass" for some reason

It was more the turn of phrase about burying a body.

Know it is just to get across that point but still a strange thing to mention in terms of what you would do for a family member.