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EV on farm

  • 13-03-2021 4:52pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,238 ✭✭✭ 80sDiesel


    So with awd id4s, ariyas coming next year I had the notion of getting one to be used sometimes on a hobby farm. With damage to battery a possibility I am guessing that they would not be suitable.


Comments

  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Regional North Mods, Regional West Moderators Posts: 81,470 Mod ✭✭✭✭ biko


    Moved out from Outlander thread


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,819 ✭✭✭ User1998


    Range rover p400e is suitable for off road use. Not sure about anything else


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,344 ✭✭✭ Patser




  • Moderators Posts: 11,971 ✭✭✭✭ Black_Knight


    80sDiesel wrote: »
    So with awd id4s, ariyas coming next year I had the notion of getting one to be used sometimes on a hobby farm. With damage to battery a possibility I am guessing that they would not be suitable.

    How are you planning to damage the battery on the farm?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,645 ✭✭✭ krissovo


    I run a hobby farm and my EQC works fine on most of the fields, its no defender but it can navigate a wet silage field confidently. I have had it loaded up with 40 fence posts and tools and drove round all my fields fixing the fences. I can even get a bale and feed in the back of our other EV the I3. The batteries are well protected, the battery would be last thing I would worry about.

    Tesla model Y running a thresher? https://youtu.be/3zNrJ42Oqfs


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,685 ✭✭✭ graememk


    krissovo wrote: »
    I run a hobby farm and my EQC works fine on most of the fields, its no defender but it can navigate a wet silage field confidently. I have had it loaded up with 40 fence posts and tools and drove round all my fields fixing the fences. I can even get a bale and feed in the back of our other EV the I3. The batteries are well protected, the battery would be last thing I would worry about.

    Tesla model Y running a thresher? https://youtu.be/3zNrJ42Oqfs

    thats an X & thats a binder, a quad could pull it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,238 ✭✭✭ 80sDiesel


    krissovo wrote: »
    I run a hobby farm and my EQC works fine on most of the fields, its no defender but it can navigate a wet silage field confidently. I have had it loaded up with 40 fence posts and tools and drove round all my fields fixing the fences. I can even get a bale and feed in the back of our other EV the I3. The batteries are well protected, the battery would be last thing I would worry about.

    Tesla model Y running a thresher? https://youtu.be/3zNrJ42Oqfs

    Perfect. Someone on the outlander thread mentioned damaging his battery so made me think twice. Restoring some upland hay meadows so something more environmentally friendly would fit the bill. I have my 80sdiesel 4x4 when things get rough.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,663 ✭✭✭✭ JPA


    80sDiesel wrote: »
    Perfect. Someone on the outlander thread mentioned damaging his battery so made me think twice. Restoring some upland hay meadows so something more environmentally friendly would fit the bill. I have my 80sdiesel 4x4 when things get rough.

    Get an EV if you want but keep the 4x4.

    Why would you potentially put the EV in harm's way or treat it roughly? Would be financially irresponsible.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,876 ✭✭✭ zg3409


    I see the ID4 in demo stock at dealers this week can tow 1 ton unbreaked and its rear wheel drive. The Tesla model Y can tow more but not in IRL yet.

    Typically EVs are good in terms of low speed grunt for towing, you might not need 4x4, just off road tyres for grip. You could carry mats or plates/shovel in case you get stuck and need more grip. You can also let air out of tyres to improve grip.

    Typically the battery is well protected and a flat surface so you can beach yourself on it at low speed with no damage. You could use modified suspension to raise ride height. The model Y might have adjustable air suspension.

    You might be better with a quad bike or old off road only landrover or ancient 4 x 4 for real off road driving where you might damage the car to a significant cost. Often you can get classic insurance and tax if going on road.

    Outlander PHEV are popular for towing but tiny EV only range and thirsty after that.
    The main upside of EVs is savings on fuel on long daily commutes. Otherwise they are very expensive toys.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,293 ✭✭✭ TheBoyConor


    Crazy to be doing that with a tesla. Teslas can't be repaired, or at least Tesla make it very a very awkward and drawn out process to repair a car with a significant fault. It is well documented by a couple of bloggers. When challenged to do a repair they have at least once suggested the customer to just buy or exchange the car. Other brands may be better supported, but with a Tesla, if it gets damaged or has a serious fault, it is more or less scrap as it can't be fixed.


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,822 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    Crazy to be doing that with a tesla. Teslas can't be repaired, or at least Tesla make it very a very awkward and drawn out process to repair a car with a significant fault. It is well documented by a couple of bloggers. When challenged to do a repair they have at least once suggested the customer to just buy or exchange the car. Other brands may be better supported, but with a Tesla, if it gets damaged or has a serious fault, it is more or less scrap as it can't be fixed.

    LOL what sort of nonsense is that? :p

    Of course Teslas can be repaired, like any other car or EV. My car has been repaired several times already and I only own it one year :D

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,177 ✭✭✭ Kramer


    unkel wrote: »
    LOL what sort of nonsense is that? :p

    Of course Teslas can be repaired, like any other car or EV.

    You watch Rich Rebuilds - you know that full well Teslas aren't just like any other car. Sure, brakes, door handles, shocks, all normal enough stuff, but the battery/BMS/drivetrain/screen/MCU/software - all bespoke Tesla stuff & only addressable by Tesla themselves, in just one single service centre, for the whole of Ireland.

    They do not provide spares to third party repairers, keep everything in house & actively go out of their way to prevent third parties from repairing their cars.

    But I...........the ranger..........blah blah blah :P.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,862 ✭✭✭✭ ELM327


    Cybertruck?


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 6,072 Mod ✭✭✭✭ liamog


    Kramer wrote: »
    They do not provide spares to third party repairers, keep everything in house & actively go out of their way to prevent third parties from repairing their cars.

    Just going to leave this link to authorised third party body shops in Ireland from Tesla https://www.tesla.com/en_IE/support/body-shop-support?redirect=no


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,293 ✭✭✭ TheBoyConor


    That is exactly the guy - Rich Rebuilds.

    Three body shops - that is only 3 in the whole country, and that is only body work. Tesla are extrememly protective of their technology - they will not release any parts or technical information to anybody only

    That guy Rich Rebuilds has gone on a crusade against Tesla for parts and information and has been almost totally refused and stonewalled anything. When he asked to buy parts they seem perplexed and say "why would you want to buy parts?" and then outrightly refuse to deal with him.

    They are not a typical car company. You cannot buy parts for them, outside of maybe routine consumables like brake pads and wipers. Anything related to the drivetrain, you most certainly cannot obtain, even from Tesla themselves. Your only option would be to have their authorised repairer do the repair and a quite stupendously high cost. And that is if they will be willing to repair it. There are cases where there has been a fault and they just tell you that the car is unrepairable and tell you to trade it in and buy a new one.

    Tesla are a very niche, experimental car. I would not recommend one if reliability and after warranty support are something on your priority list. They are far too risky a venture unless you have very deep pockets and are willing to face the financial hit of a drivetrain fault making an otherwise fine car a write off because there is no-one who can repair it becaus tesla have a stranglehold on parts and information, and if Tesla themselves refuse to repair it you are left with 2 choices. a) trade it in with Tesla, or b) use it to block a gap


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,238 ✭✭✭ 80sDiesel


    ELM327 wrote: »
    Cybertruck?

    Yeah like you I have reserved one. Who knows when it will arrive though!


  • Posts: 0 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    unkel wrote: »
    LOL what sort of nonsense is that? :p

    Of course Teslas can be repaired, like any other car or EV. My car has been repaired several times already and I only own it one year :D

    You know well that the point this poster is making is a very valid one but you insist on making another misleading post and calling out the poster as posting nonsense.

    Let’s see how that works out for you when the warranty (a very important point which you conveniently decided to omit) is out, doubt you will be heading down to sandyford “several” times a year fixing it


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 6,072 Mod ✭✭✭✭ liamog


    Tesla's can be repaired and serviced outside of Tesla service centres, they supply parts to accredited third party repair operations of which there are 4 on this Ireland.
    They may not be as open as more traditional manufacturers but it is hyperbole to make claims that Tesla's can't be repaired.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 15,998 Mod ✭✭✭✭ slave1


    This site is really useful too...

    http://www.fixyourtesla.com/


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,822 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    Kramer wrote: »
    but the battery/BMS/drivetrain/

    All that stuff is still under full warranty for every single Tesla driving around in Ireland. If it goes kaput, Tesla will fix it. Free of charge.
    Kramer wrote: »
    screen/MCU/software - all bespoke Tesla stuff & only addressable by Tesla themselves

    All covered for free, even for cars out of warranty. And of course it's not only Tesla that can fix this. Plenty of indies can do it too, although there aren't any in Ireland yet. Why would there be if Tesla does the work for free? Can't compete with that. Maybe some will spring up once Tesla start charging (big bucks) for any of these repairs. Exactly what happened in the USA.

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,177 ✭✭✭ Kramer


    unkel wrote: »
    All that stuff is still under full warranty for every single Tesla driving around in Ireland. If it goes kaput, Tesla will fix it. Free of charge.

    There will be out of warranty Teslas on the roads here very soon ;).

    So did you ever watch the Gruber video about the "2 weeks out of warranty" Model S with the dead battery? Tesla's only solution was a full battery replacement at $20,000+.

    Gruber, the "indie", only charged approx. $5,000, as there was just a single cell faulty, out of the 7,000 cells in the pack.
    They have to spend hours removing the battery cover to be able to reuse it - Tesla refuse to supply it as a spare part to them, or to anyone.

    Why would they when they can get $20k themselves, to supply a replacement battery.

    So, one faulty cell, out of 7,000 goes bad. Indie (in the US only, so far AFAIK), charges $5k. What if another cell fails next year? It's almost a 100% certainty it will.
    Another $5k?

    How many times can the cover be reused?

    People are so blinkered these days. It's alright for in warranty owners, but the behaviour Tesla engage in is pure protectionist. It's not so long ago a member here couldn't even get a faulty part replaced that he was willing to 100% pay for! At a cost of €2k :eek:.

    Gawd I'm talking myself of keeping the Model 3 here.................I think it'll have to go :D.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,862 ✭✭✭✭ ELM327


    Kramer wrote: »
    There will be out of warranty Teslas on the roads here very soon ;).

    So did you ever watch the Gruber video about the "2 weeks out of warranty" Model S with the dead battery? Tesla's only solution was a full battery replacement at $20,000+.

    Gruber, the "indie", only charged approx. $5,000, as there was just a single cell faulty, out of the 7,000 cells in the pack.
    They have to spend hours removing the battery cover to be able to reuse it - Tesla refuse to supply it as a spare part to them, or to anyone.

    Why would they when they can get $20k themselves, to supply a replacement battery.

    So, one faulty cell, out of 7,000 goes bad. Indie (in the US only, so far AFAIK), charges $5k. What if another cell fails next year? It's almost a 100% certainty it will.
    Another $5k?

    How many times can the cover be reused?

    People are so blinkered these days. It's alright for in warranty owners, but the behaviour Tesla engage in is pure protectionist. It's not so long ago a member here couldn't even get a faulty part replaced that he was willing to 100% pay for! At a cost of €2k :eek:.

    Gawd I'm talking myself of keeping the Model 3 here.................I think it'll have to go :D.




    Not sure if it was me you were referring to, but I had similar experience.
    Tesla service is AWFUL.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 6,072 Mod ✭✭✭✭ liamog


    Kramer wrote: »
    So did you ever watch the Gruber video about the "2 weeks out of warranty" Model S with the dead battery? Tesla's only solution was a full battery replacement at $20,000+.

    That will be the same for any car with a battery, Toyota won't service the individual cells in a Prius.

    We don't have an independent garage that does battery maintenance yet, because there aren't enough cars with faulty batteries to make it economical.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,177 ✭✭✭ Kramer


    liamog wrote: »
    That will be the same for any car with a battery, Toyota won't service the individual cells in a Prius.

    Yes & Gruber showed how Prius valued at $6.5k dropped in value to $1k overnight, when the warranty expired - the replacement battery cost was $5k.

    What is an out of warranty Tesla going to be worth here? Who knows, but if a single cell fails & the only option is a €20k battery replacement from Tesla, I dare say values could plummet.

    There's also a big difference between a €5k Prius with a tiny NMH battery/primary ICE engine & a €30k Tesla, with a 600Kg lithium pack.

    Given the cachet Tesla have, some people will likely still take the €20k gamble here, but I reckon the majority would opt for a new Model 3 SR, with 8 year warranty.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 6,072 Mod ✭✭✭✭ liamog


    It's the downside of being an early adopter, the support industries for out of warranty battery issues are going to take much longer to develop.
    If your not comfortable with the consequences of being an early adopter, then why be one?


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,822 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    Kramer wrote: »
    Gruber, the "indie"

    They are con artists. Ludicrous what they charge for a very simple and relatively cheap job. Worst case scenario on a Tesla is just swap one module out and the total bill should not exceed a very generous $1500 ($1000 is the eBay price for a module and the rest labour)

    The job on a Prius hybrid is so simple, you could easily DIY yourself

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,177 ✭✭✭ Kramer


    liamog wrote: »
    It's the downside of being an early adopter, the support industries for out of warranty battery issues are going to take much longer to develop.

    There won't be one for Teslas, if Tesla can prevent it.
    If they detect a car has had its battery repaired, they'll remotely permanently disable DC charging. If a Tesla (or likely any EV) has unauthorised battery repairs/modifications, an insurer is likely to disavow any liability, in case of fire.

    Look at the furore regarding charge point installs here - electricians apoplectic about "non-authorised" works. Tampering with a 90kWh/400v lithium battery won't go down well in lots of areas.
    liamog wrote: »
    If your not comfortable with the consequences of being an early adopter, then why be one?

    I never said I wasn't comfortable. Yes, I'm myopic, but my eyes are wide open (betimes :pac:). Pointing out future issues or questioning things shouldn't polarise people.
    BEVs are great. Teslas are great, in many areas. PHEVs can be brilliant when used correctly too. None are perfect though, although 99% of Tesla owners seem to think theirs are.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,822 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    Kramer wrote: »
    Teslas are great, in many areas. None are perfect though, although 99% of Tesla owners seem to think theirs are.

    What a weird statement. I have never come across any Tesla owner who thought their car was perfect. Not on any online forum, not in real life.

    Far from it in many ways. Poor build quality, poor quality control, terrible paint application to name but a few things. In many other ways, Teslas are head and shoulders above the competition and many years ahead in this big switch from fossil fuel to electric vehicles

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 6,072 Mod ✭✭✭✭ liamog


    Kramer wrote: »
    There won't be one for Teslas, if Tesla can prevent it.
    If they detect a car has had its battery repaired, they'll remotely permanently disable DC charging. If a Tesla (or likely any EV) has unauthorised battery repairs/modifications, an insurer is likely to disavow any liability, in case of fire.

    Look at the furore regarding charge point installs here - electricians apoplectic about "non-authorised" works. Tampering with a 90kWh/400v lithium battery won't go down well in lots of areas.

    Maybe people need to stop looking at the US and YouTube for it's shock stories, we have European Regulations that already cover the right to third party repair and require manufacturers to provide access to info. Here's a recent story about how third parties made complaints and Tesla had to open up.

    https://www.electrive.com/2021/02/11/tesla-opens-platform-for-repair-by-third-parties-in-the-eu/


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