Dog and (found) cat - advice please

volchitsa

Hi all,

Rotten night here, windy and pouring down, and a gorgeous young cat that's been hanging about our garage and toolshed has been mewing at the door to come in.

The problem is our 5 year old sheepdog. Her only experience of cats so far is trying to chase them. We have a currently unused dog case which we've taken back out of storage, put a sleeping bag in it so it won't smell of dog, and put the cat in it with some food, put the leash on the dog, and now want some info on how to introduce them in a way that won't traumatise either.

volchitsa

I can bring the cat to the vet tomorrow to see if it's microchipped, but I don't want to put it out in this weather tonight. Going by how comfortable she's made herself (up on the table, stretched out lol), this isn't a feral cat, she belongs to someone.

volchitsa

Nobody around with any idea of how long it would take for us to know if they're safe to be in the same room together? Currently the cat is in the crate whenever the dog is there.

This morning I fed her and put her outside so she could go home to her real owners but now she's back. Horrible weather again and of course now she knows if she cries outside the window we'll let her in.

The dog is quiet but very tense and hanging around the outside of the cage. Not very happy but not going frantic.

Id love to let the little cat out to wander round but I know the dog would go frantic, so I'd love to know how to know when it's safe and what sort of timespan that might take.

Knine

It all depends on the individual dog & cat but early signs are looking promising. The fact that the dog is not going crazy to get at the cat is good. I'd keep doing what you are doing for another week & then maybe try an introduction outside the crate with the lead on.

volchitsa

Thanks Knine. That's what I was wondering, the sort of time span that might be reasonable without putting anyone at avoidable stress.

She spent the night with us again last night (I didn't see her all day so didn't go to the vet in the end, I thought she'd gone home) but today she seems to be around the garden a bit more actually.

Am I right in thinking that even if they are ok with each other inside the house, that outside in the garden could be a different matter, or is that just a second step that should follow the same evolution a bit later?

And given that it's a young cat (maybe 4-5 months) can I expect her to "read" the situation or will she put herself in danger without knowing? She seems very brave - she watches the dog carefully but doesn't really show fear. Our last cat (we didn't have a dog then) hated dogs, she couldn't have been near one without being a ball of electric fur and claws, so in one way this cat seems able to cope, but I hope she isn't over confident.

I suspect she belongs to someone nearby but that they may put her out at night. Which I think is terrible but means she does have a home to go to all the same.

volchitsa

Minor update:

She's definitely spending all day in our garage rafters, so not just double jobbing on the meals front.

aonb

looks like you may have been adopted?!?
If shes in good shape though, she might just be coming to a 'new' home/source of food? Did you have her checked at the vet for chip - although chipping cats isnt hugely common (yet?) in Ireland...
In any case - as Knine already said, it absolutely depends on the dog - I have terriers, and have been adopted by 3 ex-ferals-now-house cats - the dogs are very ok with the cats now - getting them used to each other was easy in the case of one dog - hes biddable and not too blood-lusty(!) - as long as the cat can JUMP HIGH and get out of the room/get away from the dog thats critical. Initially I kept a door between dogs/cat - but let them see each other. Slowly I let them get closer in contact - always first with a leash on the dog - and the doors open to allow for flight. Treats in hand for the dog, when he sniffed or went towards the cat, if he was calm/unaggressive I would praise him and give him treats. If he lunged or growled towards the cat, I would shout NO! and hold him back. Nice and calm words and stroking dog and telling him what a good boy etc. No 'session' for too long. Eventually the fizz wore off when as days went by they saw that the cat was now resident and wasnt to be attacked - lots of praise and treats and stroking of dogs while cat was near. These days the cats sleep on the sofa/chairs with the dogs. The dogs have realized that licking cat bowls clean is the BEST part of having a cat around - one dog practically sits on one cats tail while she eats her food - shes got a voracious appetite, so is begging for food all day long - dog LOVES her . Good luck with the introductions!

volchitsa

Good luck with the introductions!

Thanks for that detail AONB. She is in good shape which is why I suspected she had a home but es maybe being put out at night, but she seems to be spending her days hiding in the roof of our garage, she’s always up there, so I’m not completely sure.

I didn’t get a chance to take her to the vet yet but I reckon there’s no hurry, she’s safe enough and it’s a good opportunity to teach the dog to be friendly to ca as she’s quite brave with the dog. As you say chances are she won’t have been chipped anyway.

How long did it take before you let the cat wander around the same room as the dog (leash on if needed)? Knine said about a week - was that your experience? Currently I put the cat in the crate or keep her in my arms when the dog is inside but long term that’s not feasible

aonb

volchitsa wrote: »

Thanks for that detail AONB. She is in good shape which is why I suspected she had a home but es maybe being put out at night, but she seems to be spending her days hiding in the roof of our garage, she’s always up there, so I’m not completely sure.

I didn’t get a chance to take her to the vet yet but I reckon there’s no hurry, she’s safe enough and it’s a good opportunity to teach the dog to be friendly to ca as she’s quite brave with the dog. As you say chances are she won’t have been chipped anyway.

How long did it take before you let the cat wander around the same room as the dog (leash on if needed)? Knine said about a week - was that your experience? Currently I put the cat in the crate or keep her in my arms when the dog is inside but long term that’s not feasible

Cat number one (all of ours are ex-ferals that "arrived") took the longest to integrate with the dogs because she was our FIRST cat ever! Up to then the dogs just chased every cat they saw (we're rural) - and one of them KILLED a feral kitten that couldnt get away quickly enough from him :mad::eek: when out on a walk. So I took it really slowly - and it was about 2-3 weeks before the dogs werent getting fizzy when the cat was inside - until then I kept the cat in the sitting room with me while the dogs were elsewhere in the house, so that the cat got used to us and the house. When cat #2 arrived, the dogs were ok with her within a week or so - cat #3 they didnt even bother to commen on!

volchitsa

aonb wrote: »

Cat number one (all of ours are ex-ferals that "arrived") took the longest to integrate with the dogs because she was our FIRST cat ever! Up to then the dogs just chased every cat they saw (we're rural) - and one of them KILLED a feral kitten that couldnt get away quickly enough from him :mad::eek: when out on a walk. So I took it really slowly - and it was about 2-3 weeks before the dogs werent getting fizzy when the cat was inside - until then I kept the cat in the sitting room with me while the dogs were elsewhere in the house, so that the cat got used to us and the house. When cat #2 arrived, the dogs were ok with her within a week or so - cat #3 they didnt even bother to commen on!

Yeah up to now that's been her experience of cats, ie chasing them when out for a walk. Or in the garden. She's never caught a cat yet but she killed a hen once, so I'm wary.But I did see her being stared down by a cat once, so if the cat is brave enough, she can learn to respect it.

So seeing as it's her "first" cat, a week is possibly a bit short. The cat is outdoors all day at the moment, in the garage, but she's safe there. Then she comes in at night when we're around, and if they're in the same room I put her in the dog's crate to keep her safe. As soon as she rattles about in there at all, up the dog jumps from her bed looking to see what's happening. But they spent the night like that - quite far apart and not in sight of each other but same general living area - and were fine.

Tonight my husband was stroking the cat (I wasn't back from work so he was on his own) and he says the dog was jealous, so probably something to be careful of.

volchitsa

By the way, are they also still ok with your cats when outside, or is it more of an indoors "truce"?
And do they chase other cats less?

(Even if the owner turns up for this cat, I'd be happy enough if Lola learns to be a bit more tolerant of cats generally.)

VonVix

volchitsa wrote: »

Tonight my husband was stroking the cat (I wasn't back from work so he was on his own) and he says the dog was jealous, so probably something to be careful of.

I have found most dogs react that way, not out of jealousy, but almost a warning that "don't hurt the human, when you touch me you give me a swipe, don't swipe the human!" It's almost as if my dogs get nervous if they see me touch one of the cats.

volchitsa wrote: »

By the way, are they also still ok with your cats when outside, or is it more of an indoors "truce"?
And do they chase other cats less?

My dogs (herding breeds) grew up with cats, very dog-savvy cats, but it was always a different story when the cats were outside versus when the cats were inside, herding instinct always kicked in. But it never helped that when the cats were outside they always wanted to dash around the garden triggering the desire to chase, but when they're inside they laze about, so the dogs never wanted to chase them.

volchitsa

VonVix wrote: »

I have found most dogs react that way, not out of jealousy, but almost a warning that "don't hurt the human, when you touch me you give me a swipe, don't swipe the human!" It's almost as if my dogs get nervous if they see me touch one of the cats.

My dogs (herding breeds) grew up with cats, very dog-savvy cats, but it was always a different story when the cats were outside versus when the cats were inside, herding instinct always kicked in. But it never helped that when the cats were outside they always wanted to dash around the garden triggering the desire to chase, but when they're inside they laze about, so the dogs never wanted to chase them.

If they caught them, do you think they would kill them? That's what's worrying me, that the cat (who is young, only 5 or 6 months old I think) might think that the dog is friendly, and not realise it has transformed into King Kong once out in the garden.

But maybe I'm underestimating the cat's survival instinct.

VonVix

volchitsa wrote: »

If they caught them, do you think they would kill them? That's what's worrying me, that the cat (who is young, only 5 or 6 months old I think) might think that the dog is friendly, and not realise it has transformed into King Kong once out in the garden.

But maybe I'm underestimating the cat's survival instinct.

I can't speak for other dogs, but with my own they have never attacked them when outside, just attempted to intensely herd them back into the house. Whenever they 'caught' one of our cats outside, it was like playing a game of tag, the reaction was always "gotcha!" and a big nose-boop, no ill intent at all.

My dogs basically viewed the cats as sheep, part of their herd, and if one of the cats was outside, it needed to be herded back inside lol.

volchitsa

Update:
So they can tolerate both being out and about in the same room while we're around, we just put her in the cage for night time.
Little Kitty is happy as anything, it seems. She spends a lot of time up high of course, but TBH she's not entirely out of reach if the dog really wanted to get her, and she does walk around on the floor too a bit. Lola is obsessed, watches her non stop but doesn't seem aggressive. But it's very "watchful" watching, if you see what I mean. She's not relaxed about it. I'm assuming as she gets used to her she'll get bored. I hope so anyway!

She couldn't see her at one point and spent ages searching for her. What was that about?
I think she's not quite sure what her relationship is to this little creature yet.

volchitsa

Latest update and another question about cat and dog relationships:

The dog is fine in that she doesn't show any signs of going for the cat (in the house) at all - the cat can walk around or even lie on the floor sometimes and seems happy enough. BUT the dog is still very tense as soon as the cat is around, not the same animal at all as when she's on her own with us. She watches her a bit obsessively. No actual aggression, from either. TBH little cat spends a lot of time upstairs in the bedrooms (where Lola isnt allowed to go)

So, given that this is, what - 3 weeks or a month on: is this as good as it gets, or could they end up actually being friends, given enough time?

Because it's perfectly manageable as long as I know they can tolerate each other, but I'd really hope they could be, if not friends, at least totally relaxed in each other's presence, and not quite there yet.

How long does it take for these things to really become normal to a dog? (Because it's only the dog who has a problem, little cat is great, as brave as a little lion. I guess she wouldnt have come to us if she hadn't been.)

volchitsa

Just thought I'd give an update on this - all going well between cat and dog, considering. Inside the house anyway - I don't let them go out of the house at the same time just in case (the cat is mad to get out, scratches at the windows so it's not feasible to keep her in all the time) but once the cat is out of sight I do still let the dog out and they don't seem to come across each other.

The only other thing now is that, unsurprisingly I suppose, it turns out that little cat is pregnant. Due within the next week I'd say, going by her size and assuming she mated before she came to us.

I wonder if we'd managed to get to see the vet early in the pregnancy, when I brought her to see if she was micro chipped or tattoed, whether he'd have aborted the kittens. But it didn't happen due to Covid - I only saw the secretary.
Too late now anyway. I'm just hoping there aren't too many - and that I may have underestimated her age initially. We'll get her sterilised after that.

I'm wondering whether I can let her out at all after the birth, or how long before she's liable to come on heat again, and also how long after the birth she can be spayed? I feel like I should know this having had cats before, but I can't remember.

Jimmy Bottlehead

I don't have much advice OP.
My own dog got used to my kitten rather quickly, and they stayed friends since... although the dog always acted authoratively toward the cat, kinda bossing him around and 'disciplining' him with bared teeth if I shouted at him. Almost like he was her pup.
I suspect your dog might be the same. It's his patch, and he's making sure you and your OH are safe and happy with this new intruder, so he can't relax when she's around.

I wanted to thank you for taking this little one in and minding her, and presumably handling her upcoming little with kindness. It seems she chose her new owners very wisely

volchitsa

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

I don't have much advice OP.
My own dog got used to my kitten rather quickly, and they stayed friends since... although the dog always acted authoratively toward the cat, kinda bossing him around and 'disciplining' him with bared teeth if I shouted at him. Almost like he was her pup.
I suspect your dog might be the same. It's his patch, and he's making sure you and your OH are safe and happy with this new intruder, so he can't relax when she's around.

I wanted to thank you for taking this little one in and minding her, and presumably handling her upcoming little with kindness. It seems she chose her new owners very wisely

That's a good point, Jimmy, I've been afraid to be cross at her for just that reason, with the result that she does things that our previous cats were never allowed to do, walk up on the kitchen surfaces for instance. She's a great dog, very sociable, but definitely a bit bossy with other dogs that misbehave, and as soon as she sees me correcting the cat at all she's right into the middle of it. No teeth bared, but as I say I'm careful to keep it low key.

I'm hoping as time goes on that won't be an issue. I'm telling myself that once the kittens are given away, I'll put her food down on the floor and too bad if the dog eats the rest! I don't want to do that while she's pregnant or feeding obviously.

Thanks for your compliment. I do like cats but it really was more a case of not being able to leave her outside, poor little thing. She's so pretty but a bit of a monster - she bangs her head against your hand so you have to stroke her, and even has a slight tendency to bite (not cut skin though) if you don't obey. It makes me laugh what we accept from cats compared to a dog!

Graces7

volchitsa wrote: »

That's a good point, Jimmy, I've been afraid to be cross at her for just that reason, with the result that she does things that our previous cats were never allowed to do, walk up on the kitchen surfaces for instance. She's a great dog, very sociable, but definitely a bit bossy with other dogs that misbehave, and as soon as she sees me correcting the cat at all she's right into the middle of it. No teeth bared, but as I say I'm careful to keep it low key.

I'm hoping as time goes on that won't be an issue. I'm telling myself that once the kittens are given away, I'll put her food down on the floor and too bad if the dog eats the rest! I don't want to do that while she's pregnant or feeding obviously.

Thanks for your compliment. I do like cats but it really was more a case of not being able to leave her outside, poor little thing. She's so pretty but a bit of a monster - she bangs her head against your hand so you have to stroke her, and even has a slight tendency to bite (not cut skin though) if you don't obey. It makes me laugh what we accept from cats compared to a dog!

That nip means she really loves you and is claiming you as hers!
she is a survivor in her own cat way! She sounds lovely and a real character. Enjoy her!