Childcare setting regulations?

beggars_bush

Hello, is anyone aware of design guidelines for childcare settings in Ireland?
rads/heating system
electrical sockets
lighting
toilets
kitchen
laundry facilities
any sort of guidelines would be helpful

Gumbo

beggars_bush wrote: »

Hello, is anyone aware of design guidelines for childcare settings in Ireland?
rads/heating system
electrical sockets
lighting
toilets
kitchen
laundry facilities
any sort of guidelines would be helpful

Heating - Part L.
Electrical - IS10101
Toilets - Part M
Kitchen - Part G (Hygiene)
Laundry - HSE possible

Planning first.
During your design for planning you need someone familiar with Creche/children provision layouts. HIQUA regulations, Tusla Requirements etc

I’d start by having a look at the plans for some facilities near you.
What’s the context of your question? Are you looking to design one? Build one? Set one up?

beggars_bush

Gumbo wrote: »

Heating - Part L.
Electrical - IS10101
Toilets - Part M
Kitchen - Part G (Hygiene)
Laundry - HSE possible

Planning first.
During your design for planning you need someone familiar with Creche/children provision layouts. HIQUA regulations, Tusla Requirements etc

I’d start by having a look at the plans for some facilities near you.
What’s the context of your question? Are you looking to design one? Build one? Set one up?

we're demolishing and rebuilding a shed and we're going to design it with possibly converting it in the future to a creche (within 5 years). Just planning design details in advance so things are in place eg plumbing, sewerage, drainage, electrics. Much cheaper to put them in now than in a few years

BryanF

https://aim.gov.ie/universal-design-guidelines-for-elc-settings/

Gumbo

beggars_bush wrote: »

we're demolishing and rebuilding a shed and we're going to design it with possibly converting it in the future to a creche (within 5 years). Just planning design details in advance so things are in place eg plumbing, sewerage, drainage, electrics. Much cheaper to put them in now than in a few years

When you say Shed, do you mean a typical structure in the back/side garden of s typical urban house?

If so, ive been involved in a few that got planning, but were never built due to...….. Fire Cert, DAC, meeting parking arrangements, set down space, Fire Service Access.

beggars_bush

Gumbo wrote: »

When you say Shed, do you mean a typical structure in the back/side garden of s typical urban house?

If so, ive been involved in a few that got planning, but were never built due to...….. Fire Cert, DAC, meeting parking arrangements, set down space, Fire Service Access.

we're rebuilding a large shed/old stone building that is need of rebuilding.

muffler

Universal design guidelines is well worth a read.

The planners perspective

A local authority document that has a lot of useful info

beggars_bush

thank you for all your help.
as its located at a domestic house a lot of the guidelines for commercial premises don't apply.
however, we are going to try and forward plan the building if we wanted to use it for childminding or free preschool year setting (not creche)

Gumbo

beggars_bush wrote: »

thank you for all your help.
as its located at a domestic house a lot of the guidelines for commercial premises don't apply.
however, we are going to try and forward plan the building if we wanted to use it for childminding or free preschool year setting (not creche)

I think your mixed up here?

You said it was a shed with creche for future use.
Now your saying its a domestic setting?

Childcare is commercial. unless your talking about the in home child minding set up that's allowed.

sydthebeat

beggars_bush wrote: »

thank you for all your help.
as its located at a domestic house a lot of the guidelines for commercial premises don't apply.
however, we are going to try and forward plan the building if we wanted to use it for childminding or free preschool year setting (not creche)

thats is not the way building regulations are applied.

if its a childcare premises then is IS a commercial premises and all applicable building regulations and planning regulations need to be complied with.

Fire safety certificate, disabled access certificate, assigned certification during construction, commercial development charges, car parking standards, etc etc

Calahonda52

beggars_bush wrote: »

thank you for all your help.
as its located at a domestic house a lot of the guidelines for commercial premises don't apply.
however, we are going to try and forward plan the building if we wanted to use it for childminding or free preschool year setting (not creche)

Wrong,
in addition, you run the risk of the regs changing in 5 years: different room densities, facilities for 3 or four way gender/religous separation etc.

with the drive to say at home with home schooling, its not a market that has unlimited demand.

beggars_bush

It will be a domestic shed until we decide to possibly convert to a childcare setting
Either for childminding or ECCE scheme

We hope to factor in space allocations for the number of children. Also space to future convert into toilets, kitchen and laundry space.
It'll be built with insulated cavity and insulated roof.
We hope to plumb for heating, domestic waste and sewage
We will have to apply in future for change of use for the building. We've loads of space for parking plus the area arouns thebhouse is already wheelchair friendly

Gumbo

beggars_bush wrote: »

It will be a domestic shed until we decide to possibly convert to a childcare setting
Either for childminding or ECCE scheme

We hope to factor in space allocations for the number of children. Also space to future convert into toilets, kitchen and laundry space.
It'll be built with insulated cavity and insulated roof.
We hope to plumb for heating, domestic waste and sewage
We will have to apply in future for change of use for the building. We've loads of space for parking plus the area arouns thebhouse is already wheelchair friendly

Agh ok, it’s a shed with possible future use.
Bear in mind the space requirements, particularly for toilets, the accessible we is quite big and what kills a lot of small cafes etc

Also bear in mind that a change of use application later brings with it the requirements of any regulations in force at that time, part L or otherwise. So you can insulate the hell out of it now, but the change of use in 3 years time may mean no boiler for example so you need to make provisions for space heating.

That’s an extreme example but you get the idea. Area around the house and the access route to the building has to be part m compliant. That’s from the drop off point to the front door.

Also, fore escape from inside to a place of safety, street or otherwise. You may have to provide an alternative escape route from the back garden to the streeet to avoid the risk of running by the existing dwelling and the fire alarms may have to be interlinked as a fire in the front dwelling will hinder escape from the rear Creche

beggars_bush

Gumbo wrote: »

Agh ok, it’s a shed with possible future use.
Bear in mind the space requirements, particularly for toilets, the accessible we is quite big and what kills a lot of small cafes etc

Also bear in mind that a change of use application later brings with it the requirements of any regulations in force at that time, part L or otherwise. So you can insulate the hell out of it now, but the change of use in 3 years time may mean no boiler for example so you need to make provisions for space heating.

That’s an extreme example but you get the idea. Area around the house and the access route to the building has to be part m compliant. That’s from the drop off point to the front door.

Also, fore escape from inside to a place of safety, street or otherwise. You may have to provide an alternative escape route from the back garden to the streeet to avoid the risk of running by the existing dwelling and the fire alarms may have to be interlinked as a fire in the front dwelling will hinder escape from the rear Creche

Ok. Its a rural setting. I'll be looking at all those details, thanks for advice.
I'm just going to call it a building rather than a shed.

Metric Tensor

If you don't plan to do the fire compliance items now beware that you may need to remove and rebuild internal ceilings and walls if they are not fire rated and you will also have to run special wiring around the place for an addressable fire alarm and break glass units, emergency lighting, etc. As well as possibly install additional doors for fire exits, etc. Also, as per above - whatever size you think the toilets need to be in future it's likely to be two or three times the area, ramps and railings outside, level access at the door thresholds, etc.

I think you either build it almost to the full specification now, in which case you'll need a consultant to explain to you what needs to be done or else keep it as "bare bones" as possible so that you can do a lot of work in future without having to tear much of the place apart.

Ask a local creche owner that you know about what they've had to do recently to satisfy Tusla's fire requirements and you'll get a flavour of what's ahead of you.

beggars_bush

Metric Tensor wrote: »

If you don't plan to do the fire compliance items now beware that you may need to remove and rebuild internal ceilings and walls if they are not fire rated and you will also have to run special wiring around the place for an addressable fire alarm and break glass units, emergency lighting, etc. As well as possibly install additional doors for fire exits, etc. Also, as per above - whatever size you think the toilets need to be in future it's likely to be two or three times the area, ramps and railings outside, level access at the door thresholds, etc.

I think you either build it almost to the full specification now, in which case you'll need a consultant to explain to you what needs to be done or else keep it as "bare bones" as possible so that you can do a lot of work in future without having to tear much of the place apart.

Ask a local creche owner that you know about what they've had to do recently to satisfy Tusla's fire requirements and you'll get a flavour of what's ahead of you.

Yeah, there's a lot to consider. We were planning no step entrances anyway. We're not going to skim coat internally, no chasing pf walls and go for industrial style electrical ducting.
Fire exits - thats one to think about
Chipboard up the high ceiling for now. As i said, it'll be a shed and storage space for the next few years.
A preschool facility was running from a prefab in a sports club car park for 3+ years locally. So Tusla don't appear to be too stringent on the quality of buildings

sydthebeat

beggars_bush wrote: »

Yeah, there's a lot to consider. We were planning no step entrances anyway. We're not going to skim coat internally, no chasing pf walls and go for industrial style electrical ducting.
Fire exits - thats one to think about
Chipboard up the high ceiling for now. As i said, it'll be a shed and storage space for the next few years.
A preschool facility was running from a prefab in a sports club car park for 3+ years locally. So Tusla don't appear to be too stringent on the quality of buildings

Theres been HUGE fallout after that "Hyde and seek" doc last year

beggars_bush

sydthebeat wrote: »

Theres been HUGE fallout after that "Hyde and seek" doc last year

Don't know what that ie

sydthebeat

beggars_bush wrote: »

Don't know what that ie

Some research for you then

Metric Tensor

beggars_bush wrote: »

Yeah, there's a lot to consider. We were planning no step entrances anyway. We're not going to skim coat internally, no chasing pf walls and go for industrial style electrical ducting.
Fire exits - thats one to think about
Chipboard up the high ceiling for now. As i said, it'll be a shed and storage space for the next few years.
A preschool facility was running from a prefab in a sports club car park for 3+ years locally. So Tusla don't appear to be too stringent on the quality of buildings

"No Step" in your head might not meet the level access requirements of Part M. Get a professional to tell you what's needed. (Not the door manufacturer!). Speaking of which - door widths are important too and you'll most likely make them too small in order to buy "off the shelf" doors.

Chipboard is obviously not fire compliant so expect it to be ripped down in future.

Surface mounted conduits might not be appropriate in an area where small children run around. Think of boxes mounted at eye height.

As Syd says 3 years ago was a very different landscape for childcare buildings. Also the "prefab" probably only had one room and possibly did not have a fire safety cert. What would your insurer say if you did have an issue and it transpired the building wasn't compliant?

enricoh

Setting up a creche isn't an industry I'd be getting into tbh. Theyre being regulated out
of existence, insurance payouts etc. There's more of them closing than opening nowadays n with more people working from home now n staggered hours that'll accelerate.
Set up dog kennels instead, you won't be plagued by clipboard warriors out every week from various agencies!

beggars_bush

enricoh wrote: »

Setting up a creche isn't an industry I'd be getting into tbh. Theyre being regulated out
of existence, insurance payouts etc. There's more of them closing than opening nowadays n with more people working from home now n staggered hours that'll accelerate.
Set up dog kennels instead, you won't be plagued by clipboard warriors out every week from various agencies!

Its not a creche
Future pre school or child minding building. The free preschool sees almost full take up of hours by parents

beggars_bush

sydthebeat wrote: »

Some research for you then

What effect will a poorly run creche have on building regs?

sydthebeat

beggars_bush wrote: »

What effect will a poorly run creche have on building regs?

Hummm

What effect did the stardust disaster have on building regulations?

What effect did priory Hall have on building control regulations?

As I said above, do your research....

beggars_bush

sydthebeat wrote: »

Hummm

What effect did the stardust disaster have on building regulations?

What effect did priory Hall have on building control regulations?

As I said above, do your research....

You brought it up

sydthebeat

beggars_bush wrote: »

You brought it up

Of course I did, in response to your statement about tusla not caring about the standard of premises.

The Hyde and seek fallout is highly pertinent to anyone thinking of starting up a childcare business.

You admitted to not knowing anything about it, yet you question what effect it would have on regulation??

You really need to do some homework if you want to be fully informed about what is required to register a childcare premises with TUSLA

beggars_bush

sydthebeat wrote: »

Of course I did, in response to your statement about tusla not caring about the standard of premises.

The Hyde and seek fallout is highly pertinent to anyone thinking of starting up a childcare business.

You admitted to not knowing anything about it, yet you question what effect it would have on regulation??

You really need to do some homework if you want to be fully informed about what is required to register a childcare premises with TUSLA

ok.
don't see how feeding watered down milk affects building regs
nor a cramped sleeping room, when we don't ever plan having a baby room
nor the provider not actually running the places properly.

running a childcare facility and building regs are two completely different things

sydthebeat

beggars_bush wrote: »

ok.
don't see how feeding watered down milk affects building regs
nor a cramped sleeping room, when we don't ever plan having a baby room
nor the provider not actually running the places properly.

running a childcare facility and building regs are two completely different things

Different but not separate.

When you do eventually look to register with TUSLA you will understand this