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Is some peoples health more important than mine?

  • 04-03-2021 1:01pm
    #1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭ GT89


    I was thinking earlier is the health of some people more important than other including mine. Since covid hit my mental health has been destroyed by lockdowns, uncertainty and the widespread use of face masks.

    It been a big problem. I had some mental health issues years ago as I suffered bullying as a teenager I'm in my twenties now but recovered and felt my life was on the up until covid hit I was a happy person. I was studying in college but had to defer this as I felt studying online was too difficult.

    I work aswell but the job I do very monotonous and unfortunately masks are required where I work as its in retail. This makes work very difficult for me and wearing a mask for long periods of time is very difficult for me. I could seek an exemption I guess as wearing a mask causes extreme distress for me but this is very hard. I see some customers coming into the shop I work without masks and think fair play for having the balls.

    My main question why does the government feel some peoples health is more important than others and does not take into consideration peoples mental health when bringing in covid laws.


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 19,273 ✭✭✭✭ Strumms


    Since this pandemic started we have experienced 4357 deaths due to covid in the Republic of Ireland.

    You can treat mental health issues in the main, remotely... my psychologist girlfriend has been treating people, having consultations with them via zoom and Skype, pretty much the whole industry is following this path...successfully.

    A mental health issue is not contagious like covid is... mental health problems while sad and debilitating are not bringing this country to its knees...

    My girlfriend is a psychologist, and is also an asthmatic, to the point of taking medication and utilizing a nebulizer yet has had to have it out continuously with a client and the clients partner who are trying to bully her into seeing this client one to one in person... as the client ‘didn’t like‘ remote consultations...

    If a traffic light turns red, you don’t like stopping ? Should you just plow through the red light, injuring, making unwell somebody crossing ? on being pulled by the Gardai... “ sorry, I have a mental illness, I can do as I like, irregardless of the consequences for the health and wellbeing of others, thank you”...

    If you have a mental illness, you STILL have responsibilities in life, you still have no entitlement to endanger the health and wellbeing of people in the community. Wear a mask or don’t work.


  • Registered Users Posts: 857 ✭✭✭ PintOfView


    GT89 wrote: »
    I was thinking earlier is the health of some people more important than other including mine. Since covid hit my mental health has been destroyed by lockdowns, uncertainty and the widespread use of face masks.

    It been a big problem. I had some mental health issues years ago as I suffered bullying as a teenager I'm in my twenties now but recovered and felt my life was on the up until covid hit I was a happy person. I was studying in college but had to defer this as I felt studying online was too difficult.

    I work aswell but the job I do very monotonous and unfortunately masks are required where I work as its in retail. This makes work very difficult for me and wearing a mask for long periods of time is very difficult for me. I could seek an exemption I guess as wearing a mask causes extreme distress for me but this is very hard. I see some customers coming into the shop I work without masks and think fair play for having the balls.

    My main question why does the government feel some peoples health is more important than others and does not take into consideration peoples mental health when bringing in covid laws.

    I don't have a lot of time so briefly
    - I have sympathy with your situation, which sounds genuinely difficult
    - If masks cause you distress like that in your working environment could you use a visor instead?
    (your mask, or visor, is to protect others in case you are carrying the virus)
    - The various measures such as lockdown, social distancing, masks, are to keep the virus transmission low
    and save hospitals being overrun, and save people who will die if they get the virus.
    - In the process this hurts other people, in many ways, so it is a trade off,
    either we let the virus run through the population unhindered,
    likely causing many thousands of deaths in a short time, or
    we put in place measures like we have today, in order to gain time until the vaccines have been acquired and rolled out,
    but this also affects many people in a negative way.

    So the government is trying to do the best thing, on all our behalf.
    I don't see much alternative, unless we are prepared to sacrifice the lives of those who will die if we don't put these measures in place.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭ suicide_circus


    Strumms wrote: »
    Since this pandemic started we have experienced 4357 deaths due to covid in the Republic of Ireland.

    Due to covid or with covid?


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,278 ✭✭✭ mordeith


    GT89 wrote: »

    My main question why does the government feel some peoples health is more important than others and does not take into consideration peoples mental health when bringing in covid laws.

    Because you can't legislate for a minority against a highly contagious disease which has killed a lot of people. Mental health issues are unfortunately hard to prove so an overall policy has to be implemented.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,273 ✭✭✭✭ Strumms


    Due to covid or with covid?

    I’ll let you ring the HSE and they’ll inform you ;)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,593 ✭✭✭ Markcheese


    I don't think anyone else's health Is more important than yours -
    But neither is your mental health more important than others ..
    I'm not sure what masks in particular have to do with mental health ( unless someone is making a big deal about wearing/not wearing one )
    The aspect of isolation Is real , and for better or worse I think it's up to the individual to make a much bigger effort to keep in touch with their family and friends , ( and not just scroll on instagram and facebook ,or here )
    Fortunately we have video calling ,it's not always easy to push yourself to keep doing this , especially if you're feeling down but it's important to make contact , and it can make a huge difference ...
    That and excercise , just walking , try give yourself a routine , ..

    Or you could just complain about "the system " and see how far that takes you... It's up to yourself really ..

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭ suicide_circus


    Strumms wrote: »
    I’ll let you ring the HSE and they’ll inform you ;)

    The infallible HSE which never ****s up is it?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,882 ✭✭✭ Smee_Again


    You sound quite selfish and a little prone to drama OP.

    In general the increased risk of death to some is more important than the "extreme distress" you feel at having to wear a face mask for a few hours a day.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,273 ✭✭✭✭ Strumms


    mordeith wrote: »
    Because you can't legislate for a minority against a highly contagious disease which has killed a lot of people. Mental health issues are unfortunately hard to prove so an overall policy has to be implemented.

    Unfortunately if a person is given a go ahead not to wear a mask you’ll have 3 others ( because they don’t like their face getting hot and they can’t talk to people awhnnn ) coming in with doctors notes, all of a sudden it’s 60/40 wearing / not wearing and covid is running riot... people getting sick..or worse...

    Managers should just say that a mask is part of the uniform... if you arrive not wearing trousers, or full uniform, management will send you home, no mask = same...

    If a doctor says mask wearing may cause a medical problem, employer should say..” on this basis you are no longer fit for duty “


  • Registered Users Posts: 488 ✭✭ Edgarfrndly


    Due to covid or with covid?

    Deaths are reported as from covid only if it is believed to have contributed or likely contributed to the death.

    So with covid.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭ GT89


    Strumms wrote: »
    Examples..In 2019 there were 421 deaths attributed to suicide, I can’t find 2020 numbers.

    Since this pandemic started we have experienced 4357 deaths due to covid in the Republic of Ireland.

    You can treat mental health issues in the main, remotely... my psychologist girlfriend has been treating people, having consultations with them via zoom and Skype, pretty much the whole industry is following this path...successfully.

    A mental health issue is not contagious like covid is... mental health problems while sad and debilitating are not bringing this country to its knees...

    My girlfriend is a psychologist, and is also an asthmatic, to the point of taking medication and utilizing a nebulizer yet has had to have it out continuously with a client and the clients partner who are trying to bully her into seeing this client one to one in person... as the client ‘didn’t like‘ remote consultations...

    If a traffic light turns red, you don’t like stopping ? Should you just plow through the red light, injuring, making unwell somebody crossing ? on being pulled by the Gardai... “ sorry, I have a mental illness, I can do as I like, irregardless of the consequences for the health and wellbeing of others, thank you”...

    If you have a mental illness, you STILL have responsibilities in life, you still have no entitlement to endanger the health and wellbeing of people in the community. Wear a mask or don’t work.

    But not all mental health issues result in suicide. Mental health is a highly individual case by case issue it's not a national issue as it effects different people in different I have been suffering from anxiety and depression since I came to the realisation that the covid measures were going to go on for much longer than "two weeks to flatten the curve".

    Nearly everyone I know has suffered mentally since covid has started this is heartbreaking. All I want is to be able to do normal things apart from going for walks there is no normality right now everything is completely different and weird right now. Different people suffer from different problems during covid. If people are afraid of covid they can stay home, wear a mask and do whatever measures they feel work for them and let the rest of us do what works for us. Because personally lockdowns, zoom calls and masks don't work for me and I know many with similar views. I'm not on my own.

    Your traffic light analogy is an example of not comparing like with like no ones mental heath is affected by stopping at traffic lights. Stopping at a red light is considered the norm wearing a mask or keeping your distance is never the norm. Having human contact is the norm and has been since caveman times.


  • Registered Users Posts: 488 ✭✭ Edgarfrndly


    GT89 wrote: »
    I was thinking earlier is the health of some people more important than other including mine. Since covid hit my mental health has been destroyed by lockdowns, uncertainty and the widespread use of face masks.

    It been a big problem. I had some mental health issues years ago as I suffered bullying as a teenager I'm in my twenties now but recovered and felt my life was on the up until covid hit I was a happy person. I was studying in college but had to defer this as I felt studying online was too difficult.

    I work aswell but the job I do very monotonous and unfortunately masks are required where I work as its in retail. This makes work very difficult for me and wearing a mask for long periods of time is very difficult for me. I could seek an exemption I guess as wearing a mask causes extreme distress for me but this is very hard. I see some customers coming into the shop I work without masks and think fair play for having the balls.

    My main question why does the government feel some peoples health is more important than others and does not take into consideration peoples mental health when bringing in covid laws.

    Stop the nonsense. I have BPD, along with chronic anxiety and regular bouts of depression. But never would I use it as an excuse to not wear a mask and protect people around me. If you can't perform your job with a mask, then you shouldn't be working. All it takes is one infection to cause an outbreak in a work place.
    I see some customers coming into the shop I work without masks and think fair play for having the balls.

    They don't have balls, they have a lack of consideration for the health of people around them. Reading this - this smacks of an anti-masker making up nonsense to get out of wearing a mask.

    Just put your mask on like everyone else and get on with it.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭ GT89


    Strumms wrote: »
    Unfortunately if a person is given a go ahead not to wear a mask you’ll have 3 others ( because they don’t like their face getting hot and they can’t talk to people awhnnn ) coming in with doctors notes, all of a sudden it’s 60/40 wearing / not wearing and covid is running riot... people getting sick..or worse...

    Managers should just say that a mask is part of the uniform... if you arrive not wearing trousers, or full uniform, management will send you home, no mask = same...

    If a doctor says mask wearing may cause a medical problem, employer should say..” on this basis you are no longer fit for duty “

    We had a similar lockdown back in April with no masks how come this wasn't an issue then?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,882 ✭✭✭ Smee_Again


    GT89 wrote: »
    But not all mental health issues result in suicide. Mental health is a highly individual case by case issue it's not a national issue as it effects different people in different I have been suffering from anxiety and depression since I came to the realisation that the covid measures were going to go on for much longer than "two weeks to flatten the curve".

    Nearly everyone I know has suffered mentally since covid has started this is heartbreaking. All I want is to be able to do normal things apart from going for walks there is no normality right now everything is completely different and weird right now. Different people suffer from different problems during covid. If people are afraid of covid they can stay home, wear a mask and do whatever measures they feel work for them and let the rest of us do what works for us. Because personally lockdowns, zoom calls and masks don't work for me and I know many with similar views. I'm not on my own.

    Your traffic light analogy is an example of not comparing like with like no ones mental heath is affected by stopping at traffic lights. Stopping at a red light is considered the norm wearing a mask or keeping your distance is never the norm. Having human contact is the norm and has been since caveman times.

    And what happens when the hospitals are full of people who weren't afraid of covid but caught it none the less?

    You're displaying a very naive, selfish and myopic view of things.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,273 ✭✭✭✭ Strumms


    GT89 wrote: »
    But not all mental health issues result in suicide. Mental health is a highly individual case by case issue it's not a national issue as it effects different people in different I have been suffering from anxiety and depression since I came to the realisation that the covid measures were going to go on for much longer than "two weeks to flatten the curve".

    Nearly everyone I know has suffered mentally since covid has started this is heartbreaking. All I want is to be able to do normal things apart from going for walks there is no normality right now everything is completely different and weird right now. Different people suffer from different problems during covid. If people are afraid of covid they can stay home, wear a mask and do whatever measures they feel work for them and let the rest of us do what works for us. Because personally lockdowns, zoom calls and masks don't work for me and I know many with similar views. I'm not on my own.

    Your traffic light analogy is an example of not comparing like with like no ones mental heath is affected by stopping at traffic lights. Stopping at a red light is considered the norm wearing a mask or keeping your distance is never the norm. Having human contact is the norm and has been since caveman times.

    Wearing a mask is the norm. If you become a surgeon, you’ll never have worn a mask in your life, but you go in to operate on somebody, are you going to turn to your overseeing consultant and say “ look, I wanna carry out this procedure maskless, I’m not liking wearing them, ITS NOT THE NORM, OHHH THIS MIGHTY THIN PIECE OF MATERIAL MAKES ME UNCOMFORTABLE ”

    You’d be told...

    “ it is the norm for you now, as you are required to wear one for your health and that of the patient and colleagues “ :)


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭ GT89


    Stop the nonsense. I have BPD, along with chronic anxiety and regular bouts of depression. But never would I use it as an excuse to not wear a mask and protect people around me. If you can't perform your job with a mask, then you shouldn't be working. All it takes is one infection to cause an outbreak in a work place.

    Mental health issues effect people in different ways


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,714 ✭✭✭ ThewhiteJesus


    have we not moved on from the mask crap, we have a vaccine the end is near can you not just wear the mask until then,
    they suck noone likes them but it won't be for much longer


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,334 ✭✭✭ basill


    Strumms wrote: »
    I’ll let you ring the HSE and they’ll inform you ;)


    Ask them what the flu deaths are running at as well and how much they are down. Also what they are extrapolating the cancer and other curable diseases to be for next 2-3 years with the lack of early diagnoses and elective surgeries.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭ GT89


    Smee_Again wrote: »
    And what happens when the hospitals are full of people who weren't afraid of covid but caught it none the less?

    You're displaying a very naive, selfish and myopic view of things.

    Then that's on them


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,334 ✭✭✭ Charles Babbage


    GT89 wrote: »
    I was thinking earlier is the health of some people more important than other including mine. Since covid hit my mental health has been destroyed by lockdowns, uncertainty and the widespread use of face masks.

    It been a big problem. I had some mental health issues years ago as I suffered bullying as a teenager I'm in my twenties now but recovered and felt my life was on the up until covid hit I was a happy person. I was studying in college but had to defer this as I felt studying online was too difficult.

    I work aswell but the job I do very monotonous and unfortunately masks are required where I work as its in retail. This makes work very difficult for me and wearing a mask for long periods of time is very difficult for me. I could seek an exemption I guess as wearing a mask causes extreme distress for me but this is very hard. I see some customers coming into the shop I work without masks and think fair play for having the balls.

    My main question why does the government feel some peoples health is more important than others and does not take into consideration peoples mental health when bringing in covid laws.

    You don't have a right to infect other people to make you feel good about yourself.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,273 ✭✭✭✭ Strumms


    basill wrote: »
    Ask them what the flu deaths are running at as well and how much they are down. Also what they are extrapolating the cancer and other curable diseases to be for next 2-3 years with the lack of early diagnoses and elective surgeries.

    No I’m ok, but seeing as you are curious ...Go ask them yourself, let us know what’s they say.


  • Registered Users Posts: 488 ✭✭ Edgarfrndly


    GT89 wrote: »
    Mental health issues effect people in different ways

    You called people who didn't wear masks as having "balls".

    This isn't a mental health thing and everyone can see through your post. This is a "me me me " thing.
    GT89 wrote: »
    If people are afraid of covid they can stay home, wear a mask and do whatever measures they feel work for them and let the rest of us do what works for us.

    The primary purpose of a mask is to stop you spreading covid if you're infected to other people. It's not to protect you from contracting covid, although it does offer a degree of protection against it if you wear one. But the main purpose is to reduce the risk of transmission.

    People can't just "stay home". People have shopping to get, work to go to, etc.. And if people like you traipse around wearing no mask - you put them at risk.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,534 ✭✭✭ acequion


    I'm detecting a lack of empathy towards the OP.

    Now as somebody renowned for lack of patience and more a proponent of tough love and snow flake what???? I still feel more balance and more empathy is required.
      Certain facts are indisputable such as:
    1. People suffer from mental health issues.
    2. Mental ill health can be as debilitating as physical health.
    3. There is a proven connection between mental ill health and suicide.
    4. Just as online schooling doesn't work for everybody for various reasons, likewise with online counselling.
    5. Whether you agree or disagree with the level of restrictions in Ireland there is no doubting that they are harsh and very difficult to live with, especially over such an extended period.
    6. Is one person's health more important than others or should there be more equality in the approach to everyone's physical and mental health? is a very fair question and worthy of debate.

    Mind yourself OP.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,149 ✭✭✭ normanoffside


    Deaths are reported as from covid only if it is believed to have contributed or likely contributed to the death.

    So with covid.

    Actually that's incorrect.
    Deaths are reported as 'related to covid'

    https://twitter.com/roinnslainte/status/1367175734473744385


  • Registered Users Posts: 488 ✭✭ Edgarfrndly


    Actually that's incorrect.
    Deaths are reported as 'related to covid'

    https://twitter.com/roinnslainte/status/1367175734473744385

    The HSE uses WHO criteria for covid death reporting.

    A death is only attributed to covid if it is believed to have "caused, or is assumed to have caused, or contributed to death".

    https://www.thejournal.ie/how-are-covid-19-probable-deaths-counted-5102540-Jul2020/


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,273 ✭✭✭✭ Strumms


    acequion wrote: »
    I'm detecting a lack of empathy towards the OP.

    Now as somebody renowned for lack of patience and more a proponent of tough love and snow flake what???? I still feel more balance and more empathy is required.
      Certain facts are indisputable such as:
    1. People suffer from mental health issues.
    2. Mental ill health can be as debilitating as physical health.
    3. There is a proven connection between mental ill health and suicide.
    4. Just as online schooling doesn't work for everybody for various reasons, likewise with online counselling.
    5. Whether you agree or disagree with the level of restrictions in Ireland there is no doubting that they are harsh and very difficult to live with, especially over such an extended period.
    6. Is one person's health more important than others or should there be more equality in the approach to everyone's physical and mental health? is a very fair question and worthy of debate.

    Mind yourself OP.

    The lack of empathy exists because the OP shows a complete lack of care and consideration and indeed empathy for the health and wellbeing of people and will not wear a simple light piece of cloth to HELP protect society and its people from becoming ill. Be a strange day before I’ll have ‘empathy’ for anybody carrying on in a manner like that.

    “Mind yourself OP ?” How about... have some consideration and mind EVERYBODY ? Be a team player ? :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,149 ✭✭✭ normanoffside


    The HSE uses WHO criteria for covid death reporting.

    A death is only attributed to covid if it is believed to have "caused, or is assumed to have caused, or contributed to death".

    https://www.thejournal.ie/how-are-covid-19-probable-deaths-counted-5102540-Jul2020/

    'Contributed' is the key word.
    Is there a definition of how much the contribution is?

    Most terminally ill patients will actually die from things like Pneumonia but they generally pick up Pneumonia because of how weak they are to infections in the first place.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,882 ✭✭✭ Smee_Again


    GT89 wrote: »
    Then that's on them

    Well not really because it has a serious knock on effect to the rest of the health service. Treating covid takes up a lot of effort and sucks significant resources away from other areas.

    And you saying "That's on them" is quite revealing and shows a real lack of empathy yet you want others to show empathy to you.

    So to use your response against you, your poor mental health is on you.

    In other words, suck it up buttercup.


  • Registered Users Posts: 74 ✭✭✭ Riodej1578


    GT89 wrote: »
    I was thinking earlier is the health of some people more important than other including mine. Since covid hit my mental health has been destroyed by lockdowns, uncertainty and the widespread use of face masks.

    It been a big problem. I had some mental health issues years ago as I suffered bullying as a teenager I'm in my twenties now but recovered and felt my life was on the up until covid hit I was a happy person. I was studying in college but had to defer this as I felt studying online was too difficult.

    I work aswell but the job I do very monotonous and unfortunately masks are required where I work as its in retail. This makes work very difficult for me and wearing a mask for long periods of time is very difficult for me. I could seek an exemption I guess as wearing a mask causes extreme distress for me but this is very hard. I see some customers coming into the shop I work without masks and think fair play for having the balls.

    My main question why does the government feel some peoples health is more important than others and does not take into consideration peoples mental health when bringing in covid laws.

    On your question, it is a disgrace what is happening. Unfortunately the government is putting other lives ahead of yours and many others.

    I feel in the last year my mental health has been affected, mood is generally poor and hard to say any outlook.

    But just hoping another few weeks/months things will start to improve.

    It just annoys me so much that it's focus is Covid, covid covid... If the suicide deaths were released I would expect there to be some shock to the system.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 868 ✭✭✭ Sofa King Great


    No one person's health is more important than another. However the collective health of the majority is more important than the health of a minority.


    This however seems to be more about mask wearing than really about mental health.

    Anyway, look after yourself op, seek out supports that are available, talk to people about how you are feeling and maybe talk to your GP


This discussion has been closed.
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