HR contradicting the Site Manager and vice versa

IrishGirlScout

Found out a few weeks ago that the new guy on our team is on a better rate than the rest of us.
I emailed HR and got a reply to say the site manager will email me.
Site manager emailed and stated that as per the site contract, everyone, unless in a supervisor position is on the same rate.
I copied this email and emailed HR again explaining what the site manager said and HRs reply was any team member on a better rate is due to "personal terms and conditions".
I emailed HR back basically asking could he explain what is meant by "personal terms and conditions".
Its been two weeks and I still haven't got a reply.

Would that be classed as technically breaking contract ? Would I have a case with WRC ?
This is a company who is seriously exploiting their staff. For example, one of our older members whos been here over 11 years is still on basic rate.

I obviously cant state the company but we are contracted into one of the "Big Five" companies who our employer classes as "a premium site"

Smee_Again

What is in your contract? Does it state that all contractors are paid the same?

Who are you employed by? By that I mean are you contracting to the site by a third party?

IrishGirlScout

Smee_Again wrote: »

What is in your contract? Does it state that all contractors are paid the same?


Who are you employed by? By that I mean are you contracting to the site by a third party?

My contract doesn't state anything about Pay, its left blank as we can be moved from site to site.
Yes were contracted in my another company.

Unless you’re in a union what other people are paid is of no concern if yours I’d have thought.

IrishGirlScout

Deleted User wrote: »

Unless you’re in a union what other people are paid is of no concern if yours I’d have thought.

So the employment equality act means nothing in this situation ?

antodeco

How long are you there OP? Can you ask the question about getting a raise for yourself if your tenure and work rate allow for it?

jrosen

People are paid different salaries all the time based on what they bring to the table. How do you know this person is paid more

IrishGirlScout

antodeco wrote: »

How long are you there OP? Can you ask the question about getting a raise for yourself if your tenure and work rate allow for it?

Im with the company 3 years, in on this site 9 months.

IrishGirlScout

jrosen wrote: »

People are paid different salaries all the time based on what they bring to the table. How do you know this person is paid more

Because he told me.

jrosen

IrishGirlScout wrote: »

So the employment equality act means nothing in this situation ?

Isn’t the act there to stop discrimination different areas pay being one of them.
But that doesn’t = all staff being paid the same

Smee_Again

IrishGirlScout wrote: »

My contract doesn't state anything about Pay, its left blank as we can be moved from site to site.
Yes were contracted in my another company.

And what was your agreement regarding pay? Did you agree a rate when hired or does your pay depend on the location worked and/or the rate others get?

Unless you have an agreement in place that guarantees you the same rate of pay as everyone else on site then I don't see the issue.

It's possible that this other person negotiated a better rate with the employer who are taking a smaller cut from the site rate, so to the Site Manager all contractors are on the same rate and to HR this other person is on a better rate due personal terms and conditions.

Smee_Again

IrishGirlScout wrote: »

So the employment equality act means nothing in this situation ?

Are you being discriminated against on any of the grounds listed below?

• Gender: this means man, woman or transsexual
• Civil status: includes single, married, separated, divorced, widowed people, civil partners and former civil partners
• Family status: this refers to the parent of a person under 18 years or the resident primary carer or parent of a person with a disability
• Sexual orientation: includes gay, lesbian, bisexual and heterosexual
• Religion: means religious belief, background, outlook or none
• Age: this does not apply to a person aged under 16
• Disability: includes people with physical, intellectual, learning, cognitive or emotional disabilities and a range of medical conditions
• Race: includes race, skin colour, nationality or ethnic origin
• Membership of the Traveller community.

Dr Turk Turkelton

Maybe he's better at the job than the rest so he was able to ask for more as the company wanted him there.
If you were to up your game then you could approach HR with a request for a rise instead of a trivial issue like someone else's package which frankly is none of your business.

D3V!L

It's possible he's more qualified at the job than you are. You don't have any right to the same pay as anyone else no matter what you may think.

IrishGirlScout

Smee_Again wrote: »

And what was your agreement regarding pay? Did you agree a rate when hired or does your pay depend on the location worked and/or the rate others get?

Unless you have an agreement in place that guarantees you the same rate of pay as everyone else on site then I don't see the issue.


It's possible that this other person negotiated a better rate with the employer who are taking a smaller cut from the site rate, so to the Site Manager all contractors are on the same rate and to HR this other person is on a better rate due personal terms and conditions.

- Pay depends on the site. This is my third site with this company and each site my wage has decreased. I started on a really good rate (hence why i started with the company), got moved to a site with a lower rate and then I was moved to this site which is even lower basic rate so over the last three years I have taken a serious rate cut, to the point where im in debt.

- The only agreement is the site contract, which the site manager stated that everyone, apart from the supervisors are on the same rate.

Meeoow

D3V!L wrote: »

It's possible he's more qualified at the job than you are. You don't have any right to the same pay as anyone else no matter what you may think.

It's also possible that he's less qualified, but negotiated better.

IrishGirlScout

D3V!L wrote: »

It's possible he's more qualified at the job than you are. You don't have any right to the same pay as anyone else no matter what you may think.

I should of stated that this is Security.

He has no previous security experience prior to this job.
I have been doing this 7 years.

Ottoman_1000

IrishGirlScout wrote: »

So the employment equality act means nothing in this situation ?

That is not what the employment equality act means!.Example, I work on a team of 5 within my company, couldn't tell you what salary's the rest are on but I'd make a fair assumption none of us are on the same rate. Depends on experience, how long you're with the company, how well you negotiated your initial salary etc...I'd assume most companies work on the same principal.

IrishGirlScout

Smee_Again wrote: »

Are you being discriminated against on any of the grounds listed below?

• Gender: this means man, woman or transsexual
• Civil status: includes single, married, separated, divorced, widowed people, civil partners and former civil partners
• Family status: this refers to the parent of a person under 18 years or the resident primary carer or parent of a person with a disability
• Sexual orientation: includes gay, lesbian, bisexual and heterosexual
• Religion: means religious belief, background, outlook or none
• Age: this does not apply to a person aged under 16
• Disability: includes people with physical, intellectual, learning, cognitive or emotional disabilities and a range of medical conditions
• Race: includes race, skin colour, nationality or ethnic origin
• Membership of the Traveller community.

I mean I am a female whereas the people on a different rate are male but I dont really want to go down that route.

AndrewJRenko

IrishGirlScout wrote: »

- Pay depends on the site. This is my third site with this company and each site my wage has decreased. I started on a really good rate (hence why i started with the company), got moved to a site with a lower rate and then I was moved to this site which is even lower basic rate so over the last three years I have taken a serious rate cut, to the point where im in debt.

- The only agreement is the site contract, which the site manager stated that everyone, apart from the supervisors are on the same rate.

Fool me once, shame on you.
Fool me twice, shame on me.

Why would you stick around with a company that keeps cutting your pay?

You might want to think about joining a union too.

Smee_Again

IrishGirlScout wrote: »

- Pay depends on the site. This is my third site with this company and each site my wage has decreased. I started on a really good rate (hence why i started with the company), got moved to a site with a lower rate and then I was moved to this site which is even lower basic rate so over the last three years I have taken a serious rate cut, to the point where im in debt.

- The only agreement is the site contract, which the site manager stated that everyone, apart from the supervisors are on the same rate.

It doesn't sound like your employer is too happy with your work to be honest.

As I explained it's possible that the Site Manager is paying the same rate but the other employee negotiated a better rate with your employer.

Basically, the Site Manager pays €20 per hour per contractor to your employer.
Employer then takes €5 per hour from that and pays you €15, but the other employee negotiated a rate of €16 per hour so the employer only takes €4 per hour from the €20.

To the Site Manager all contractors are on the same rate, but the other employee has better T&Cs to you and gets paid more. This is not discrimination, nor is there anything wrong with it legally unless you can show an agreement to receive the same pay as all other employees.

IrishGirlScout

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Fool me once, shame on you.
Fool me twice, shame on me.

Why would you stick around with a company that keeps cutting your pay?

You might want to think about joining a union too.

Corona ****ed it all up to be honest, no way I would still be here.
Theres just nothing out there at the moment

IrishGirlScout

Smee_Again wrote: »

It doesn't sound like your employer is too happy with your work to be honest.

Untrue.
I'm a good employee, come in every day 40 mins early, never miss a day and never ring in sick.
I put my head down, do my 48+ hours a week and go home.

paw patrol

IrishGirlScout wrote: »

Untrue.
I'm a good employee, come in every day 40 mins early, never miss a day and never ring in sick.
I put my head down, do my 48+ hours a week and go home.

there could be loads of reason - who knows.

I think you need to arrange a meeting with HR to see what is up.
if emails fail, ring them.
If all else fails , request a pay rise or a pay review.

Smee_Again

IrishGirlScout wrote: »

Untrue.
I'm a good employee, come in every day 40 mins early, never miss a day and never ring in sick.
I put my head down, do my 48+ hours a week and go home.

I don't want to come across as having a go at you, but if you're doing all that and still getting moved to lower paying sites then they're taking advantage of you and you're letting them. It's no wonder other people are being paid more.

The guy who gets paid more, does he do all that? Why turn up 40 minutes early? Do you not value your own time?

listermint

Generally speaking if someone comes in new it's their opportunity to negotiate a good starting rate. This guy may have very well done that.

Often large salary increases only come around when you move jobs. Not sites. Moving company I mean. It gives you space to negotiate what you want.

Other option is to negotiate well before your end of year review make it clear what you want, make it clear why you think you deserve it and make a case. These should be measurable btw. Tasks achieved projects completed turn around times etc.

You do have some power to do this . It's not going to always be via some dispute mechanism.

beertons

Knock that 40 minutes on the head.

clevtrev

IrishGirlScout wrote: »

- Pay depends on the site. This is my third site with this company and each site my wage has decreased. I started on a really good rate (hence why i started with the company), got moved to a site with a lower rate and then I was moved to this site which is even lower basic rate so over the last three years I have taken a serious rate cut, to the point where im in debt.

- The only agreement is the site contract, which the site manager stated that everyone, apart from the supervisors are on the same rate.

You have a very unusual employment contract if your hourly rate changes depending upon which site you are sent to. I assume your contract specifies this? Seems a crazy situation and must be a very Security industry type employment contract. It seems a very unfair situation but if that is what your employment contract says then you dont have must right to recourse. (I assume you are not signing a new contract with a new rate for each new site you go to?)

CIARAN_BOYLE

clevtrev wrote: »

You have a very unusual employment contract if your hourly rate changes depending upon which site you are sent to. I assume your contract specifies this? Seems a crazy situation and must be a very Security industry type employment contract. It seems a very unfair situation but if that is what your employment contract says then you dont have must right to recourse. (I assume you are not signing a new contract with a new rate for each new site you go to?)

It sounds like the company she thinks is her employer is really an employment agency.

Each site is a new job with a new employer and a new site contract.

IrishGirlScout

IrishGirlScout wrote: »

I mean I am a female whereas the people on a different rate are male but I dont really want to go down that route.

"Found out a few weeks ago that the new guy on our team is on a better rate than the rest of us."

Are all the others the new guy is better paid than female also?

Tzardine

You have no entitlement to be paid the same as anyone else, unless of course you are being discriminated against on one of the established grounds. It does not appear that this is the case.

So you have a couple of options.

1. Do nothing. Get on with your job.
2. Ask for a raise.
3. Go somewhere else.

Sorry to put it so bluntly, but that is the reality of the situation.

IrishGirlScout

clevtrev wrote: »

You have a very unusual employment contract if your hourly rate changes depending upon which site you are sent to. I assume your contract specifies this? Seems a crazy situation and must be a very Security industry type employment contract. It seems a very unfair situation but if that is what your employment contract says then you dont have must right to recourse. (I assume you are not signing a new contract with a new rate for each new site you go to?)

When going on to a new site, we are forced (yes, forced) to sign a piece of paper stating that our site rate cannot transfer to another site if we are moved.

Only thing our contact states is that we can be moved at any time to any place, without notice.

IrishGirlScout

listermint wrote: »

Other option is to negotiate well before your end of year review make it clear what you want, make it clear why you think you deserve it and make a case. These should be measurable btw. Tasks achieved projects completed turn around times etc.

In Security, we dont have end of year reviews or projects or even negotiations for that matter. We are skeletons with a pulse.

IrishGirlScout

clevtrev wrote: »

(I assume you are not signing a new contract with a new rate for each new site you go to?)

Nope, only ever signed one contract

RandRuns

If they are dropping your salary every time they send you to a new site, and you quietly accept it, then they are going to keep dropping your salary. Why wouldn't they?

IrishGirlScout

RandRuns wrote: »

If they are dropping your salary every time they send you to a new site, and you quietly accept it, then they are going to keep dropping your salary. Why wouldn't they?

In a few comments up above I explained that when going on to a new site, we are forced to sign a piece of paper stating that our site rate cannot transfer to another site if we are moved.
So we are left with no choice.

burkey2k0

That is how workplaces generally are outside of the civil service or a union. They're both a meritocracy and also a 'you don't ask, you don't get' environment where the employer will not pay you more than they have to.

So firstly I would suggest you need to ask for an increase to get one? I know you have said they do not have reviews, but surely you can ask for it, and that will be your starting point. Maybe you can negotiate a rate higher than this other person. Please don't make a mistake of quoting other people's pay or quoting discrimination regulations for a reason you deserve a raise. They do not apply.

I personally know that my pay has been consistently different than people I work with who have the exact same level of skill and experience as me. But I was paid whatever I negotiated during my last pay review. If I was paid less, then that is my fault for either not asking for more, or not being good enough. If I was paid more, then good for me for asking more more and being good enough. It really is every man/woman for yourself. Unfortunately a lot of people in the private sector are not aware of this.

RandRuns

IrishGirlScout wrote: »

In a few comments up above I explained that when going on to a new site, we are forced to sign a piece of paper stating that our site rate cannot transfer to another site if we are moved.
So we are left with no choice.

If you aren't objecting, then you don't know whether you've a choice or not.

Quadrivium

OP, to be honest the security industry is gone to the dogs. I was earning more per hour doing security work 20 years ago than a security supervisor gets paid today, the industry is saturated with cheap labour, not like when I used to work in it, back then there was no licence and you only got employed on reputation and got paid accordingly.

My advice would be to re-skill, change your sector completely because as along as there are thousands of non EU persons on student visas willing to work for crap wages your pay will never go up. Don't annoy yourself worrying about what others are paid, put that energy into getting out of security work.