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HR contradicting the Site Manager and vice versa

  • 15-02-2021 10:11am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭✭✭ IrishGirlScout


    Found out a few weeks ago that the new guy on our team is on a better rate than the rest of us.
    I emailed HR and got a reply to say the site manager will email me.
    Site manager emailed and stated that as per the site contract, everyone, unless in a supervisor position is on the same rate.
    I copied this email and emailed HR again explaining what the site manager said and HRs reply was any team member on a better rate is due to "personal terms and conditions".
    I emailed HR back basically asking could he explain what is meant by "personal terms and conditions".
    Its been two weeks and I still haven't got a reply.

    Would that be classed as technically breaking contract ? Would I have a case with WRC ?
    This is a company who is seriously exploiting their staff. For example, one of our older members whos been here over 11 years is still on basic rate.

    I obviously cant state the company but we are contracted into one of the "Big Five" companies who our employer classes as "a premium site"


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,882 ✭✭✭ Smee_Again


    What is in your contract? Does it state that all contractors are paid the same?

    Who are you employed by? By that I mean are you contracting to the site by a third party?


  • Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭✭✭ IrishGirlScout


    Smee_Again wrote: »
    What is in your contract? Does it state that all contractors are paid the same?


    Who are you employed by? By that I mean are you contracting to the site by a third party?

    My contract doesn't state anything about Pay, its left blank as we can be moved from site to site.
    Yes were contracted in my another company.




  • Unless you’re in a union what other people are paid is of no concern if yours I’d have thought.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭✭✭ IrishGirlScout


    Unless you’re in a union what other people are paid is of no concern if yours I’d have thought.

    So the employment equality act means nothing in this situation ?


  • Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 13,028 ✭✭✭✭ antodeco


    How long are you there OP? Can you ask the question about getting a raise for yourself if your tenure and work rate allow for it?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,613 ✭✭✭ jrosen


    People are paid different salaries all the time based on what they bring to the table. How do you know this person is paid more


  • Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭✭✭ IrishGirlScout


    antodeco wrote: »
    How long are you there OP? Can you ask the question about getting a raise for yourself if your tenure and work rate allow for it?

    Im with the company 3 years, in on this site 9 months.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭✭✭ IrishGirlScout


    jrosen wrote: »
    People are paid different salaries all the time based on what they bring to the table. How do you know this person is paid more

    Because he told me.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,613 ✭✭✭ jrosen


    So the employment equality act means nothing in this situation ?

    Isn’t the act there to stop discrimination different areas pay being one of them.
    But that doesn’t = all staff being paid the same


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,882 ✭✭✭ Smee_Again


    My contract doesn't state anything about Pay, its left blank as we can be moved from site to site.
    Yes were contracted in my another company.

    And what was your agreement regarding pay? Did you agree a rate when hired or does your pay depend on the location worked and/or the rate others get?

    Unless you have an agreement in place that guarantees you the same rate of pay as everyone else on site then I don't see the issue.

    It's possible that this other person negotiated a better rate with the employer who are taking a smaller cut from the site rate, so to the Site Manager all contractors are on the same rate and to HR this other person is on a better rate due personal terms and conditions.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,882 ✭✭✭ Smee_Again


    So the employment equality act means nothing in this situation ?

    Are you being discriminated against on any of the grounds listed below?
    • Gender: this means man, woman or transsexual
    • Civil status: includes single, married, separated, divorced, widowed people, civil partners and former civil partners
    • Family status: this refers to the parent of a person under 18 years or the resident primary carer or parent of a person with a disability
    • Sexual orientation: includes gay, lesbian, bisexual and heterosexual
    • Religion: means religious belief, background, outlook or none
    • Age: this does not apply to a person aged under 16
    • Disability: includes people with physical, intellectual, learning, cognitive or emotional disabilities and a range of medical conditions
    • Race: includes race, skin colour, nationality or ethnic origin
    • Membership of the Traveller community.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,562 ✭✭✭ Dr Turk Turkelton


    Maybe he's better at the job than the rest so he was able to ask for more as the company wanted him there.
    If you were to up your game then you could approach HR with a request for a rise instead of a trivial issue like someone else's package which frankly is none of your business.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,860 ✭✭✭ D3V!L


    It's possible he's more qualified at the job than you are. You don't have any right to the same pay as anyone else no matter what you may think.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭✭✭ IrishGirlScout


    Smee_Again wrote: »
    And what was your agreement regarding pay? Did you agree a rate when hired or does your pay depend on the location worked and/or the rate others get?

    Unless you have an agreement in place that guarantees you the same rate of pay as everyone else on site then I don't see the issue.


    It's possible that this other person negotiated a better rate with the employer who are taking a smaller cut from the site rate, so to the Site Manager all contractors are on the same rate and to HR this other person is on a better rate due personal terms and conditions.


    - Pay depends on the site. This is my third site with this company and each site my wage has decreased. I started on a really good rate (hence why i started with the company), got moved to a site with a lower rate and then I was moved to this site which is even lower basic rate so over the last three years I have taken a serious rate cut, to the point where im in debt.

    - The only agreement is the site contract, which the site manager stated that everyone, apart from the supervisors are on the same rate.


  • Registered Users Posts: 587 ✭✭✭ Meeoow


    D3V!L wrote: »
    It's possible he's more qualified at the job than you are. You don't have any right to the same pay as anyone else no matter what you may think.

    It's also possible that he's less qualified, but negotiated better.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭✭✭ IrishGirlScout


    D3V!L wrote: »
    It's possible he's more qualified at the job than you are. You don't have any right to the same pay as anyone else no matter what you may think.

    I should of stated that this is Security.

    He has no previous security experience prior to this job.
    I have been doing this 7 years.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,480 ✭✭✭ Ottoman_1000


    So the employment equality act means nothing in this situation ?

    That is not what the employment equality act means!.Example, I work on a team of 5 within my company, couldn't tell you what salary's the rest are on but I'd make a fair assumption none of us are on the same rate. Depends on experience, how long you're with the company, how well you negotiated your initial salary etc...I'd assume most companies work on the same principal.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭✭✭ IrishGirlScout


    Smee_Again wrote: »
    Are you being discriminated against on any of the grounds listed below?
    • Gender: this means man, woman or transsexual
    • Civil status: includes single, married, separated, divorced, widowed people, civil partners and former civil partners
    • Family status: this refers to the parent of a person under 18 years or the resident primary carer or parent of a person with a disability
    • Sexual orientation: includes gay, lesbian, bisexual and heterosexual
    • Religion: means religious belief, background, outlook or none
    • Age: this does not apply to a person aged under 16
    • Disability: includes people with physical, intellectual, learning, cognitive or emotional disabilities and a range of medical conditions
    • Race: includes race, skin colour, nationality or ethnic origin
    • Membership of the Traveller community.

    I mean I am a female whereas the people on a different rate are male but I dont really want to go down that route.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,982 ✭✭✭✭ AndrewJRenko


    - Pay depends on the site. This is my third site with this company and each site my wage has decreased. I started on a really good rate (hence why i started with the company), got moved to a site with a lower rate and then I was moved to this site which is even lower basic rate so over the last three years I have taken a serious rate cut, to the point where im in debt.

    - The only agreement is the site contract, which the site manager stated that everyone, apart from the supervisors are on the same rate.

    Fool me once, shame on you.
    Fool me twice, shame on me.

    Why would you stick around with a company that keeps cutting your pay?

    You might want to think about joining a union too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,882 ✭✭✭ Smee_Again


    - Pay depends on the site. This is my third site with this company and each site my wage has decreased. I started on a really good rate (hence why i started with the company), got moved to a site with a lower rate and then I was moved to this site which is even lower basic rate so over the last three years I have taken a serious rate cut, to the point where im in debt.

    - The only agreement is the site contract, which the site manager stated that everyone, apart from the supervisors are on the same rate.

    It doesn't sound like your employer is too happy with your work to be honest.

    As I explained it's possible that the Site Manager is paying the same rate but the other employee negotiated a better rate with your employer.

    Basically, the Site Manager pays €20 per hour per contractor to your employer.
    Employer then takes €5 per hour from that and pays you €15, but the other employee negotiated a rate of €16 per hour so the employer only takes €4 per hour from the €20.

    To the Site Manager all contractors are on the same rate, but the other employee has better T&Cs to you and gets paid more. This is not discrimination, nor is there anything wrong with it legally unless you can show an agreement to receive the same pay as all other employees.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭✭✭ IrishGirlScout


    Fool me once, shame on you.
    Fool me twice, shame on me.

    Why would you stick around with a company that keeps cutting your pay?

    You might want to think about joining a union too.

    Corona ****ed it all up to be honest, no way I would still be here.
    Theres just nothing out there at the moment


  • Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭✭✭ IrishGirlScout


    Smee_Again wrote: »
    It doesn't sound like your employer is too happy with your work to be honest.

    Untrue.
    I'm a good employee, come in every day 40 mins early, never miss a day and never ring in sick.
    I put my head down, do my 48+ hours a week and go home.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,314 ✭✭✭ paw patrol


    Untrue.
    I'm a good employee, come in every day 40 mins early, never miss a day and never ring in sick.
    I put my head down, do my 48+ hours a week and go home.

    there could be loads of reason - who knows.

    I think you need to arrange a meeting with HR to see what is up.
    if emails fail, ring them.
    If all else fails , request a pay rise or a pay review.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,882 ✭✭✭ Smee_Again


    Untrue.
    I'm a good employee, come in every day 40 mins early, never miss a day and never ring in sick.
    I put my head down, do my 48+ hours a week and go home.

    I don't want to come across as having a go at you, but if you're doing all that and still getting moved to lower paying sites then they're taking advantage of you and you're letting them. It's no wonder other people are being paid more.

    The guy who gets paid more, does he do all that? Why turn up 40 minutes early? Do you not value your own time?


  • Registered Users Posts: 30,652 ✭✭✭✭ listermint


    Generally speaking if someone comes in new it's their opportunity to negotiate a good starting rate. This guy may have very well done that.

    Often large salary increases only come around when you move jobs. Not sites. Moving company I mean. It gives you space to negotiate what you want.

    Other option is to negotiate well before your end of year review make it clear what you want, make it clear why you think you deserve it and make a case. These should be measurable btw. Tasks achieved projects completed turn around times etc.

    You do have some power to do this . It's not going to always be via some dispute mechanism.


  • Hosted Moderators Posts: 22,611 ✭✭✭✭ beertons


    Knock that 40 minutes on the head.


  • Registered Users Posts: 608 ✭✭✭ clevtrev


    - Pay depends on the site. This is my third site with this company and each site my wage has decreased. I started on a really good rate (hence why i started with the company), got moved to a site with a lower rate and then I was moved to this site which is even lower basic rate so over the last three years I have taken a serious rate cut, to the point where im in debt.

    - The only agreement is the site contract, which the site manager stated that everyone, apart from the supervisors are on the same rate.

    You have a very unusual employment contract if your hourly rate changes depending upon which site you are sent to. I assume your contract specifies this? Seems a crazy situation and must be a very Security industry type employment contract. It seems a very unfair situation but if that is what your employment contract says then you dont have must right to recourse. (I assume you are not signing a new contract with a new rate for each new site you go to?)


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,486 ✭✭✭✭ CIARAN_BOYLE


    clevtrev wrote: »
    You have a very unusual employment contract if your hourly rate changes depending upon which site you are sent to. I assume your contract specifies this? Seems a crazy situation and must be a very Security industry type employment contract. It seems a very unfair situation but if that is what your employment contract says then you dont have must right to recourse. (I assume you are not signing a new contract with a new rate for each new site you go to?)

    It sounds like the company she thinks is her employer is really an employment agency.

    Each site is a new job with a new employer and a new site contract.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,797 ✭✭✭ LorenzoB


    I mean I am a female whereas the people on a different rate are male but I dont really want to go down that route.

    "Found out a few weeks ago that the new guy on our team is on a better rate than the rest of us."

    Are all the others the new guy is better paid than female also?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,861 ✭✭✭ Tzardine


    You have no entitlement to be paid the same as anyone else, unless of course you are being discriminated against on one of the established grounds. It does not appear that this is the case.

    So you have a couple of options.

    1. Do nothing. Get on with your job.
    2. Ask for a raise.
    3. Go somewhere else.

    Sorry to put it so bluntly, but that is the reality of the situation.


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