Netherlands v Ireland COVID

Chivito550

In Netherlands, tough lockdown with 9pm curfew, BUT no 5km nonsense, no police pestering people about where they are travelling to, allowed to meet 1 person a day, can be a different person each day and can be inside the home. Can travel anywhere in the country for a drive. Can visit a holiday home. And sports facilities open to non-elites!

Must be great to have a government that has trust in its people.

Away With The Fairies

Ah yeah, if we had all that, the 9pm curfew would be ignored.

spring lane jack

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

Ah yeah, if we had all that, the 9pm curfew would be ignored.

Especially that the offie's are open till Ten.:pac:

Strumms

Chivito550 wrote: »

In Netherlands, tough lockdown with 9pm curfew, BUT no 5km nonsense, no police pestering people about where they are travelling to, allowed to meet 1 person a day, can be a different person each day and can be inside the home. Can travel anywhere in the country for a drive. Can visit a holiday home. And sports facilities open to non-elites!

Must be great to have a government that has trust in its people.

Too many arseholes here have shown they can’t be trusted.

We are not like the Dutch, neither in sociological or physiological makeup.

Can you imagine you said to the needy **** here you could do that ?

Wolf359f

Strumms wrote: »

Too many arseholes here have shown they can’t be trusted.

We are not like the Dutch, neither in sociological or physiological makeup.

Can you imagine you said to the needy **** here you could do that ?

Different restrictions are needed for each country, despite the severity of the outbreak. It's a different population with a different mindset.
Government here introduce a guideline here and the immediate reaction from the public is how to get around it. The pubs opening as restaurants is a prime example.

doublejobbing 2

[QUOTE=Wolf359f;116252340
Government here introduce a guideline here and the immediate reaction from the public is how to get around it. The pubs opening as restaurants is a prime example.[/QUOTE]

Given no other country in Europe considered this radicicolous rule last summer, why shouldn't we?

Taliban Tony wouldn't have allowed us pubs at all only some bright sparks realised they were legally restaurants and the government couldn't be bothered getting involved in the legal mire of what is and is not a restaurant.

Your life must be very very sad if pubs re opening upset you that much.

ceadaoin.

Literally every country thinks their people are somehow uniquely disobedient and not following the rules and therefore are to blame for their outbreaks. Unlike all these other "good" countries. Its the same type of comments on forums in the US, and the UK too. Its nonsense. Its an airborne virus.

Buddy Bubs

Plenty of riots in Netherlands over last while. They are equally as unhappy as us.

Don't cherry pick aspects of restrictions to claim we should be copying other countries, its lazy and a bit boring at this stage.

Chivito550

Chivito550 wrote: »

In Netherlands, tough lockdown with 9pm curfew, BUT no 5km nonsense, no police pestering people about where they are travelling to, allowed to meet 1 person a day, can be a different person each day and can be inside the home. Can travel anywhere in the country for a drive. Can visit a holiday home. And sports facilities open to non-elites!

Must be great to have a government that has trust in its people.

Irish people have shown they can’t and shouldn’t be trusted.

suicide_circus

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

Irish people have shown they can’t and shouldn’t be trusted.

Shame! 25 Hail Marys!!!!

irelandrover

Sports facilities aren't open. All non essential shops are closed since December. Alcohol can't be sold after 8. You can be stopped and searched by police for no reason. Daycare only opened again on Monday after being closed for 2 months.

You seem to have cherry picked the rules you like and ignored the rest.

Chivito550

irelandrover wrote: »

Sports facilities aren't open. All non essential shops are closed since December. Alcohol can't be sold after 8. You can be stopped and searched by police for no reason. Daycare only opened again on Monday after being closed for 2 months.

You seem to have cherry picked the rules you like and ignored the rest.

I've been informed that outdoor athletics tracks are open for non elite athletes. Group training is not allowed though.

Here, I have to sprint on park paths, dodging walkers and dogs, because apparently a 400m outdoor track is too dangerous for me to engage in solo individual training on.

Lillyfae

Hi OP

Being honest, it's tough. I'm not really affected by the curfew but the idea of it is extremely oppressive- it really goes against the freedom and quality of life that I've always treasured here. The riots were terrifying, but the aftermath of people pulling together helped somewhat to restore my faith in the community spirit. I don't agree with the curfew, especially since it seems to have zero affect on the numbers and was extended even after a substantial decrease in said numbers. I really feel for those under 25. Their lives are unbelievably curtailed, and there's no way out in sight.

Being at home working with children under 6 is almost impossible. Myself and my husband's workloads have doubled too, and we are both essential workers. We get some help with emergency daycare and now the schools are back it's a bit easier, but we can't give our children our best because we're working longer hours and don't feel like there's any down time whatsoever. We'd love to take them to the cinema, or out to eat, or to a play park or museum but everything's closed. We've cancelled days out and family holidays that we're much looked forward to, and can't plan anything for the future.

Having said that, the rules are enforced. If you're caught out after curfew there's a fine, if you're breaking the rules on gatherings, you're fined, if you travel without good reason you're fined and PCR tests for travelling are mandatory. The bordering countries of Germany and Belgium are cooperating with the Netherlands in this respect.

I just hope that we will be able to drive to another country during the summer to take a break. We "behaved" ourselves last summer thinking that things would improve but massively regret that now and first chance we get we're outta here.

irelandrover

Chivito550 wrote: »

I've been informed that outdoor athletics tracks are open for non elite athletes. Group training is not allowed though.

Here, I have to sprint on park paths, dodging walkers and dogs, because apparently a 400m outdoor track is too dangerous for me to engage in solo individual training on.

Fair enough. Outdoor facilities are open but you can only train in groups of 2, you must have a booking and a health check is needed beforehand.
Group sports are not allowed and indoor facilities are closed. I read your initial post as all sports facilities are open.

The measures here are similar enough to Ireland except we are allowed one visitor a day in our house. You can meet with one other household outdoors but we are limited to groups of 2.

You are restricted to 5KM of your home and we don't have that.

Mrs OBumble

Chivito550 wrote: »

Here, I have to sprint on park paths, dodging walkers and dogs, because apparently a 400m outdoor track is too dangerous for me to engage in solo individual training on.

You don't have to, you can just stay home.

Take a walk if you need fresh air.

ThunbergsAreGo

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

You don't have to, you can just stay home.

Take a walk if you need fresh air.

Why cant he train?

Personally running has a much better affect on my mental health than walking.

I agree with a curfew for the simple reason that it is really really clear cut - out after X and its a fine, none of the "I am only going to...." nonsense. Interesting to hear to poster aboves experience on it though, and they would be better informed than me.

HBC08

Chivito550 wrote: »

I've been informed that outdoor athletics tracks are open for non elite athletes. Group training is not allowed though.

Here, I have to sprint on park paths, dodging walkers and dogs, because apparently a 400m outdoor track is too dangerous for me to engage in solo individual training on.

Oh the humanity!

Mrs OBumble

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

Why cant he train?

Personally running has a much better affect on my mental health than walking.

I agree with a curfew for the simple reason that it is really really clear cut - out after X and its a fine, none of the "I am only going to...." nonsense. Interesting to hear to poster aboves experience on it though, and they would be better informed than me.

S/He CAN train. But it's not compulsory.

Curfews sound great. But we have people working nightshifts in medical device factories, for example. Their work is essential, but a curfew would mean they had no transport to get home.

Lillyfae

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Curfews sound great. But we have people working nightshifts in medical device factories, for example. Their work is essential, but a curfew would mean they had no transport to get home.

Of course it doesn't, the curfew is for people who are outside for no good reason. Work is a good reason- eg working a night shift or driving a bus.

ThunbergsAreGo

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

S/He CAN train. But it's not compulsory.

Curfews sound great. But we have people working nightshifts in medical device factories, for example. Their work is essential, but a curfew would mean they had no transport to get home.

Of course noone HAS to train, bar eat noone really HAS to do anything.

But we do what we can to get through this pandemic with our sanity intact.

Chivito550

irelandrover wrote: »

Fair enough. Outdoor facilities are open but you can only train in groups of 2, you must have a booking and a health check is needed beforehand.
Group sports are not allowed and indoor facilities are closed. I read your initial post as all sports facilities are open.

The measures here are similar enough to Ireland except we are allowed one visitor a day in our house. You can meet with one other household outdoors but we are limited to groups of 2.

You are restricted to 5KM of your home and we don't have that.

You would be amazed what a difference those little things would make to my mental health.

To be able to book myself in for solo training on an athletics track like I did last summer.

To be able to see a family member living 19km from where I am in a different county.

To be able to pop over to one of my many mates I have now not seen in 12 months.

Chivito550

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

You don't have to, you can just stay home.

Take a walk if you need fresh air.

Because a sport I have dedicated myself to for 11 years is just not important?

It might not be important to you, but it's important to me.

A walk is not sufficient alternative for somebody who has spent 11 years training hard and competing. The sport is a huge part of my life.

I don't even need to be in a group to do it. I just need access to a track. Apparently that's too dangerous though!

Chivito550

Chivito550 wrote: »

Because a sport I have dedicated myself to for 11 years is just not important?

It might not be important to you, but it's important to me.

A walk is not sufficient alternative for somebody who has spent 11 years training hard and competing. The sport is a huge part of my life.

I don't even need to be in a group to do it. I just need access to a track. Apparently that's too dangerous though!

Just because it's important to you doesn't mean it's important in the bigger picture though. Suck it up, like many are having to.

Chivito550

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

Just because it's important to you doesn't mean it's important in the bigger picture though. Suck it up, like many are having to.

Explain to me how it makes any difference to the bigger picture that non-elite athletes are banned from outdoor tracks. Last summer (and in December) they had a booking system that allowed only 4 on a track for each time slot, and each person had to be training as an individual only.

I encountered less people than I do in my local park.

It's absolutely nuts and has no impact on virus levels.

I've been largely compliant and have kept contacts very low and avoided crowds for 11 months now. I can deal with that as I understand how it makes a difference.

I can't deal with restrictions that make no difference.

Chivito550

Chivito550 wrote: »

Explain to me how it makes any difference to the bigger picture that non-elite athletes are banned from outdoor tracks. Last summer (and in December) they had a booking system that allowed only 4 on a track for each time slot, and each person had to be training as an individual only.

I encountered less people than I do in my local park.

It's absolutely nuts and has no impact on virus levels.

I've been largely compliant and have kept contacts very low and avoided crowds for 11 months now. I can deal with that as I understand how it makes a difference.

I can't deal with restrictions that make no difference.

Everyone will always have some excuse why the things they want to do should be allowed over everything else. It's been a pattern of this whole thing.

irelandrover

Chivito550 wrote: »

You would be amazed what a difference those little things would make to my mental health.

To be able to book myself in for solo training on an athletics track like I did last summer.

To be able to see a family member living 19km from where I am in a different county.

To be able to pop over to one of my many mates I have now not seen in 12 months.

I understand how it would help mental health. I managed to play one game of soccer in 12 months. At least you can still train for your sport. I can't go to the gym or train for the sport i play.

I haven't seen friends or family in 12 months either as they live in a different country.

I cant leave the house after 9pm which is simply not the case in Ireland. this made quite a big difference as i went for a walk in the evening time a bit once my kid was asleep after balancing childminding and work as the daycares were closed.

ednwireland

a friend drove to belfast this week (legit reason) says you wouldnt know theres a lockdown there

Chivito550

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

Everyone will always have some excuse why the things they want to do should be allowed over everything else. It's been a pattern of this whole thing.

Because common sense doesn't exist in this country. You suppress a virus by stopping gatherings. It's as simple as that. Anything else is unnecessary.

Chivito550

Chivito550 wrote: »

Because common sense doesn't exist in this country. You suppress a virus by stopping gatherings. It's as simple as that. Anything else is unnecessary.

Unnecessary because it's affecting something you want to do. We've heard all this before from so many different people about so many different things.

Chivito550

irelandrover wrote: »

I understand how it would help mental health. I managed to play one game of soccer in 12 months. At least you can still train for your sport. I can't go to the gym or train for the sport i play.

I haven't seen friends or family in 12 months either as they live in a different country.

I cant leave the house after 9pm which is simply not the case in Ireland. this made quite a big difference as i went for a walk in the evening time a bit once my kid was asleep after balancing childminding and work as the daycares were closed.

The thing is I can't train for my sport. I'm a sprinter so I need access to a track and gym, neither of which I have access to anymore. It's the same for jumpers and throwers. Admittedly distance runners are less impacted. But not all of us runners are distance runners.

Sprinting on paths, grass and roads is the equivalent of practicing your tennis against the wall of a house. There's very little you get from it.

Chivito550

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

Unnecessary because it's affecting something you want to do. We've heard all this before from so many different people about so many different things.

Explain to me why other countries allow such things? The Dutch for example.

Same virus.

ThunbergsAreGo

irelandrover wrote: »

I understand how it would help mental health. I managed to play one game of soccer in 12 months. At least you can still train for your sport. I can't go to the gym or train for the sport i play.
.

I miss this so much!!

irelandrover

Chivito550 wrote: »

The thing is I can't train for my sport. I'm a sprinter so I need access to a track and gym, neither of which I have access to anymore. It's the same for jumpers and throwers. Admittedly distance runners are less impacted. But not all of us runners are distance runners.

Sprinting on paths, grass and roads is the equivalent of practicing your tennis against the wall of a house. There's very little you get from it.

You are focusing on just a few aspects of the Dutch policy and its the ones that would benefit you while ignoring the ones that are bad.

Your initial post said the police wouldnt hassle you asking where you are going, instead the police have the powers to stop and search you without any reason.

You brought up the 5km thing but ignore the curfew. How you can meet one person a day even inside your house but ignore that it is only one person, my parents in law cant visit as only one of them would be allowed in the house.

Some aspects of the dutch policies are better, some aspects of the irish policies are better.

We did not have restaurants and bars open before christmas. All pubs are closed here since October.

BTownB

irelandrover wrote: »

You are focusing on just a few aspects of the Dutch policy and its the ones that would benefit you while ignoring the ones that are bad.

Your initial post said the police wouldnt hassle you asking where you are going, instead the police have the powers to stop and search you without any reason.

You brought up the 5km thing but ignore the curfew. How you can meet one person a day even inside your house but ignore that it is only one person, my parents in law cant visit as only one of them would be allowed in the house.

Some aspects of the dutch policies are better, some aspects of the irish policies are better.

We did not have restaurants and bars open before christmas. All pubs are closed here since October.

Would prefer a curfew to the 5k rule. You can get out and about, see people, visit family but disincentivises night time meet ups and parties.

ZeRoY

France has a Curfew also, stricter 6pm - 6am with 6 person visits maximum, movement limit outside of work is 20km - I would tend to agree that the 5km limit is too little, 20km seems a lot more flexible for forest walks, mountains walks, fishing, etc...

Chivito550

irelandrover wrote: »

You are focusing on just a few aspects of the Dutch policy and its the ones that would benefit you while ignoring the ones that are bad.

Your initial post said the police wouldnt hassle you asking where you are going, instead the police have the powers to stop and search you without any reason.

You brought up the 5km thing but ignore the curfew. How you can meet one person a day even inside your house but ignore that it is only one person, my parents in law cant visit as only one of them would be allowed in the house.

Some aspects of the dutch policies are better, some aspects of the irish policies are better.

We did not have restaurants and bars open before christmas. All pubs are closed here since October.

I did acknowledge the curfew in my OP to be fair. I should have been specific about police not hassling people about where they are going during the day. Do the police stop people there on their way to work?

And I take your points. I don't see many aspects of Ireland's current lockdown that are better than the Netherlands' current lockdown though. What have we currently got that you would like? The ability to go for a night walk at 10pm in freezing cold? Would you sacrifice being able to visit a friend in their home outside of 5km for that? Would you sacrifice the ability to see a different person each day for that?

Chivito550

BTownB wrote: »

Would prefer a curfew to the 5k rule. You can get out and about, see people, visit family but disincentivises night time meet ups and parties.

Yep I'd happily take curfew over 5km rule and other silly rules around outdoor athletics tracks.

There's nothing to do at night anyway, so would make sod all difference to most of us.

Essential journeys and work could still happen at night.

irelandrover

Chivito550 wrote: »

I did acknowledge the curfew in my OP to be fair. I should have been specific about police not hassling people about where they are going during the day. Do the police stop people there on their way to work?

And I take your points. I don't see many aspects of Ireland's current lockdown that are better than the Netherlands' current lockdown though. What have we currently got that you would like? The ability to go for a night walk at 10pm in freezing cold? Would you sacrifice bring able to visit a friend in their home outside of 5km for that? Would you sacrifice the ability to see a different person each day for that?

I would sacrifice being able to visit friends outside the 5km. All my friends here live within 5km so thats an easy one.

Honestly, being able to go to the shop at 8:30 for a beer would be great after a hard day, being able to go for a walk in the fresh air after my kid is in bed would be great for my mental health. Would i sacrifice visiting a different friend every day for that, yes i would.

Chivito550

irelandrover wrote: »

I would sacrifice being able to visit friends outside the 5km. All my friends here live within 5km so thats an easy one.

Honestly, being able to go to the shop at 8:30 for a beer would be great after a hard day, being able to go for a walk in the fresh air after my kid is in bed would be great for my mental health. Would i sacrifice visiting a different friend every day for that, yes i would.

Fair enough. I suspect if we took a poll on it, more would rather your restrictions than ours.

There's ways around your problems (buy your beer when the shop is open). There's no way around ours.

But could we really be arsed.

Chivito550

irelandrover wrote: »

I would sacrifice being able to visit friends outside the 5km. All my friends here live within 5km so thats an easy one.

Honestly, being able to go to the shop at 8:30 for a beer would be great after a hard day, being able to go for a walk in the fresh air after my kid is in bed would be great for my mental health. Would i sacrifice visiting a different friend every day for that, yes i would.

By the way we can't even visit friends within 5km here either. We can't visit ANYBODY.

HermioneJean

Are schools and hospitals and dentists and museums open?

quokula

Netherlands has suffered more covid deaths per capita than Ireland. Ireland had stronger economic growth than Netherlands in 2020. Ireland's vaccine rollout is currently 60% ahead of the Netherlands.

As has been pointed out, some aspects of restrictions are more stringent in the Netherlands and others are more relaxed. It is a different country with different demographics, different housing arrangements, different infrastructure and many other things.

irelandrover

irelandrover wrote: »

I would sacrifice being able to visit friends outside the 5km. All my friends here live within 5km so thats an easy one.

You couldn't legally visit any of them under our restrictions. Not even elderly parents if someone else is in a "care bubble" with them, or your own children if they don't live with you. You can meet up with one other person outside - and not in their garden, in some public area. That's it.

growleaves

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

Irish people have shown they can’t and shouldn’t be trusted.

If you are an Irish person then your statement is logically self-refuting.

The_Brood

Is it time then maybe to admit that we are simply a horrible society as a people, who deserve this government, deserve this lockdown and this misery, and deserve everything bad that happens to us?

"Every nation has problems" is the easy response, but if our issues have materialised into endless lockdown and misery, that says something.

growleaves

growleaves wrote: »

If you are an Irish person then your statement is logically self-refuting.

You know well what I mean.

IQO

https://twitter.com/annaholligan/status/1361611951986606080

https://twitter.com/HaagseRechtbank/status/1361606845580906498

A group called "Virus Madness" in The Netherlands opened a courtcase against the state and the 9pm curfew in The Netherlands, and won - so it looks like the evening curfew is going away.

Would like to see something similar against the restrictions in Ireland (f.e. the 5km or the 2000 euro fines at the airport), and see what a court will say about that here.

irelandrover

Deleted User wrote: »

You couldn't legally visit any of them under our restrictions. Not even elderly parents if someone else is in a "care bubble" with them, or your own children if they don't live with you. You can meet up with one other person outside - and not in their garden, in some public area. That's it.

That's the case now. Would you have swapped the freedom over christmas knowing that afterwards you'd have stricter restrictions?

Id have loved to be able to meet friends in bars or restarants leading up to christmas. that wasnt possible here.

You can't just look at restrictions now in isolation. You have to look at how the country deals in total with the pandemic.

Now that the curfew is lifted here the situation in Netherlands looks a lot better than ireland. However Ireland is vacinating at a faster rate than here so are likely out of restrictions earlier.

I regurgitate the news

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56084466

A groups named Virus Truth took the Dutch government to court over the curfew and won. The court said this curfew needs to be lifted right away.

Dutch government are appealing and urging people to respect the curfew even if their appear fails.

banie01

I regurgitate the news wrote: »

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56084466

A groups named Virus Truth took the Dutch government to court over the curfew and won. The court said this curfew needs to be lifted right away.

Dutch government are appealing and urging people to respect the curfew even if their appear fails.

It's already been overturned afaik.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/16/dutch-court-orders-government-lift-covid-curfew

The curfew stays as is, with a further hearing on Friday.

I regurgitate the news

banie01 wrote: »

It's already been overturned afaik.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/16/dutch-court-orders-government-lift-covid-curfew

The curfew stays as is, with a further hearing on Friday.

Yes, sorry I understood that. Nothing has changed based on the government's appeal for the moment.