2022: only new cars with "auto pilot" will be road legal

unkel

This is not new and has been long in the making. I thought I'd post it anyway as 2022 no longer looks that far away now. For the last few years, a new car could only get a 5 star Euro NCAP safety rating if it had autonomous driving level 2, or to be more specific:

-LKAS (lane keep assist, sometimes called auto steer)
-AEB (autonomous emergency braking)
-ACC (active cruise control, automatically keeps a safe distance from the car in front)

And by next year, if a new car does not have all these features as standard, it will not be allowed to be sold in the EU

ongarite

More information, this has been in the making since 2019.
https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2019/11/08/safer-cars-in-the-eu/

Del2005

My 13 year old car will still be legal next year so you're title is wrong, it only affects new cars

unkel

Del2005 wrote: »

My 13 year old car will still be legal next year so you're title is wrong, it only affects new cars

Did you read the thread title?

"2022: only new cars with "auto pilot" will be road legal"

colm_mcm

As in next year. How has this not been publicised more?

unkel

Good question colm_mcm. Wondering that myself and that was the main reason I started this thread. A lot of people seem unaware of these developments. The EU has a pretty aggressive strategy to bring down the number of road fatalities over the next 10 years and above is very much part of the plan.

Del2005

unkel wrote: »

Did you read the thread title?

"2022: only new cars with "auto pilot" will be road legal"

Obviously not.

Don't most new cars have these already? Not that it'll affect the vast majority of buyers as they just get whatever the dealer supplies and if these are mandatory then you will get them. It'll only affect people who want to bring in their own new vehicle from outside the EU.

unkel

Del2005 wrote: »

Not that it'll affect the vast majority of buyers

It won't affect the vast majority of buyesr, except that far fewer of them will die in a car crash

CoBo55

Traffic sign recognition too? I thought I read something about it being a requirement. No harm to have these things.

biko

AEB good
ACC good
LKAS pain in the behind

Toyotafanboi

I'd say most stuff has that now anyway. Had the displeasure of driving an i10 last month, definitely had LKAS and AEB.

I take it that it isn't a requirement that every car has to have ACC just that traditional double switch cruise control is no longer acceptable but it is still ok to sell a car that just doesn't have any form of cruise once it does have LKAS and AEB?

Can you turn this stuff of in newer cars, or is it easy to disable through the ECU?

unkel

biko wrote: »

AEB good
ACC good
LKAS pain in the behind

What makes you say that? Perhaps your experience is of a car with a poor LKAS system (in fairness the vast majority of them are not up to scratch - yet)

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

I take it that it isn't a requirement that every car has to have ACC just that traditional double switch cruise control is no longer acceptable but it is still ok to sell a car that just doesn't have any form of cruise once it does have LKAS and AEB?

No, it has to be ACC. You'd be surprised how many people fall asleep and crash into the car in front of them

This has been a requirement for a 5 star Euro NCAP safety rating for a few years now (must have all 3 listed in my OP)

0lddog

CoBo55 wrote: »

Traffic sign recognition too? I thought I read something about it being a requirement. No harm to have these things.

If it works

Still lots of issues with misrecognition of traffic signs

User1998

A lot of cars have the features already, I think even a Volkswagen Up! has them as standard. I knew about cars needing the features to get a 5 star rating but I wasn’t aware it was mandatory from 2022. Lane keep assist can be a pain in the hole when it automatically turns on every time you start the car

kirving

Calling these features Autopilot is absolutely dangerously misleading.

Kimbot

LIGHTNING wrote: »

My UP has it but its a hard one to test if it works. Tempted to put out some boxes and try it :pac:

Record it for us :pac:

colm_mcm

I thought the new Sandero missed out on 5 stars because it didn’t have this stuff.
They’ll have to add it next year I guess. I’m sure if it’s happening in 2022 they’re all well aware of it.

reubenreuben

unkel wrote: »

This is not new and has been long in the making. I thought I'd post it anyway as 2022 no longer looks that far away now. For the last few years, a new car could only get a 5 star Euro NCAP safety rating if it had autonomous driving level 2, or to be more specific:

-LKAS (lane keep assist, sometimes called auto steer)
-AEB (autonomous emergency braking)
-ACC (active cruise control, automatically keeps a safe distance from the car in front)

And by next year, if a new car does not have all these features as standard, it will not be allowed to be sold in the EU

What happens with lane assist when the white lines are worn away like the majority of Irish roads, not including dual carriageways

colm_mcm

LIGHTNING wrote: »

With good old VRT I can see the base price of cars over here going up if they are forced to have these options.

Regardless of VRT, if the manufacturer increases the price, then we will pay more. That’s the only way the VRT will go up, aside from the extras affecting emissions.

I think the real cost of these systems to the manufacturer are very small anyway if they’ve already developed them and integrated them into their platforms.

punisher5112

Hopefully they make auto lights a thing too as so many drive without. DRLs at night are blinding.

GreeBo

punisher5112 wrote: »

Hopefully they make auto lights a thing too as so many drive without. DRLs at night are blinding.

Not to mention the ninjas with no lights, especially at the back.

User1998

reubenreuben wrote: »

What happens with lane assist when the white lines are worn away like the majority of Irish roads, not including dual carriageways

It just deactivates and automatically activates again when it detects white lines

unkel

It shouldn't need white lines. More advanced systems can keep a lane when there are no lane markings at all. But I accept that most systems currently fitted to most cars are very rudimentary.

Birka

unkel wrote: »

What makes you say that? Perhaps your experience is of a car with a poor LKAS system (in fairness the vast majority of them are not up to scratch - yet)

On smaller rural roads where the inside two feet is basically unusable and the central white line somewhat decorative, LKAS is indeed a PITA.

Jim_Hodge

Birka wrote: »

On smaller rural roads where the inside two feet is basically unusable and the central white line somewhat decorative, LKAS is indeed a PITA.

Fully agree. The best feature with LKAS is the switch to turn it off.

kirving

kirving wrote: »

Calling these features Autopilot is absolutely dangerously misleading.

Not to mention inaccurate

tjhook

I hadn't heard this story. Interesting. I can't see it making a huge impact om those buying a Tesla/Passat/Mondeo. But at the other end, I can see it having a far bigger impact on smaller/cheaper cars. Especially with the VRT. Gone are the days of the "cheap" 1.0L Micra!

maidhc

unkel wrote: »

What makes you say that? Perhaps your experience is of a car with a poor LKAS system (in fairness the vast majority of them are not up to scratch - yet)



No, it has to be ACC. You'd be surprised how many people fall asleep and crash into the car in front of them

This has been a requirement for a 5 star Euro NCAP safety rating for a few years now (must have all 3 listed in my OP)

My wife’s civic has LKAS. It works well, but really you need a 1 hour motorway journey to notice the benefit. It is off most of the time, but I’d use it happily.

LKAS in my avensis is rubbish by comparison. It only Beeps or something silly like that, but it was fitted to an old architecture to begin with. It stays off.

ACC saved my bacon a few times. Wonderful invention that you (rightfully) forget you have.

liamog

GreeBo wrote: »

Not to mention the ninjas with no lights, especially at the back.

I coded my back lights to come on with the DRLs, I see no downside of having the rear lights illuminated during the day.

GreeBo

liamog wrote: »

I coded my back lights to come on with the DRLs, I see no downside of having the rear lights illuminated during the day.

Indeed, if the point of DRLs is to be seen, then I dont understand why both wouldnt come on automatically.

That said I dont understand why DRLs are needed in the first place when we have dipped lights...

vectra

GreeBo wrote: »

Indeed, if the point of DRLs is to be seen, then I dont understand why both wouldnt come on automatically.

That said I dont understand why DRLs are needed in the first place when we have dipped lights...

1) Possibly because having rear lights on during daylight might make it harder for a following driver to spot the brake lights?

2) Dipped lights during the day use more energy than drl's. You know what that leads to?

CiniO

liamog wrote: »

I coded my back lights to come on with the DRLs, I see no downside of having the rear lights illuminated during the day.

Downside would be higher energy consumption, faster wear and tear of the lights/bulbs, and worse visibility of brake lights.

I can't think of any advantage though of having rear lights illuminated during the day.

GreeBo

CiniO wrote: »

I can't think of any advantage though of having rear lights illuminated during the day.

I propose that it would have the exact same advantages of having DRLs on, but for the people behind you?

GreeBo

vectra wrote: »

1) Possibly because having rear lights on during daylight might make it harder for a following driver to spot the brake lights?

Does it though?

vectra wrote: »

2) Dipped lights during the day use more energy than drl's. You know what that leads to?

Leads to someone using the same LEDS for dipped as DRLs?

liamog

GreeBo wrote: »

That said I dont understand why DRLs are needed in the first place when we have dipped lights...

I was always of the impression that drls were brighter that dipped beams, but because they don't throw a beam the result is better visibility during the day but without blinding other drivers.

vectra wrote: »

1) Possibly because having rear lights on during daylight might make it harder for a following driver to spot the brake lights?

2) Dipped lights during the day use more energy than drl's. You know what that leads to?

If you rear end someone who has their lights on during the day because you thought they were braking, I'm pretty sure the problem is the person doing the rear ending! Volvo's for years have had the lights turn on automatically, I've never really had a problem distinguishing when a car is braking versus just driving. The third brake light and the increase in intensity is enough to make it pretty obvious what's going on.

It's funny the same anti-efficiency arguments were used against front DRLs.

ForestFire

There is no disadvantage, from a safety point of view, of have rear lights on with DRLs.

I find a lot of people driving around at dusk, and getting quite dark even, with only front DRL's active, and because the dash lights up with DRL's normally, and they see a bit of light at the front, they think the rear lights are also on (Or are stupid!!).

The only reason I can think of, for not having the rear lights on with DLR's, is that a lot of the time the rear lights are not LED's, whereas the front DRL's are always LEDs.

The lifetime of Filament bulbs compared to LEDs are vastly different.

Thankfully my last 2 cars came with rear LED lights that activated with DRL's as standard, without me needing to recode them.
I think its called scandinavian DRL's option in the VW/SEAT factories, and not every country gets it!!

punisher5112

Have a look at most cars where they breaks the side lights at the rear come on to.....
That is just a terrible excuse.

galwaytt

liamog wrote: »

I coded my back lights to come on with the DRLs, I see no downside of having the rear lights illuminated during the day.

Our CLS only has them at the front. I asked if they could be coded to have rears on all the time too, and was told 'No'.

There HAS to be a way to do that. I mean, the ECU is currently 'telling' them to stay 'Off' in daylight, so it can't be hard to tell them the opposite...

i57dwun4yb1pt8

lane assist feels like you are flying a 737 max , i turn it off always .

lawred2

CiniO wrote: »

Downside would be higher energy consumption, faster wear and tear of the lights/bulbs, and worse visibility of brake lights.

I can't think of any advantage though of having rear lights illuminated during the day.

Huh?

Truckermal

unkel wrote: »

It shouldn't need white lines. More advanced systems can keep a lane when there are no lane markings at all. But I accept that most systems currently fitted to most cars are very rudimentary.

Yep that's correct my truck has it along with everything else mentioned and as Biko said it's a pain in the Ass especially when your trying to murder a prostitute heading northbound on the M50.....

colm_mcm

Truckermal wrote: »

Yep that's correct my truck has it along with everything else mentioned and as Biko said it's a pain in the Ass especially when your trying to murder a prostitute heading northbound on the M50.....

Swings and roundabouts, the adaptive cruise and autonomous braking means you don’t really have to watch the road.

frozenfrozen

I coded rear lights on with drls. Wish all cars had it this way considering so many people run DRLs during rain

kirving

I've said it before but Auto lights/DRL's are absolutely horrendously marketed too, and have next to zero standardisation across manufacturers.

Lights aside, as that debate will go on forever and a day, the newest Level 2 autonomy systems can be achieved using a camera alone, so don't have to come at too high of a cost to the customer.

trellheim

LKA and ACC is a dream for motorway driving just set the speed and light touch on the wheel

delly

I predict some crash for cash cases many years down the road, judge asks why didn't your car not self brake? Sorry your honour, we accidentally disabled it....bang bang, CASE DISMISSED!

vectra

GreeBo wrote: »

Does it though?

Well, it takes all sorts to rear end a car. :pac:

GreeBo wrote: »

Leads to someone using the same LEDS for dipped as DRLs?

Lost me there.

Cookie_Monster

Ugh, all of these are horrible inventions, I've got them all on my car and 2 of the three are permanently turned off, i only wish AEB could be disabled as well, the number of times its engaged for a park bump stop, bush or similar is infuriating.

For the majority of people all these things will do will make them even less engaged when behind the wheel, falsely believing the car mostly drives itself.

This seems like an even more pain in the arse one to deal with every time you want to start your car.

alcohol interlock installation facilitation,

https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2019/11/08/safer-cars-in-the-eu/

CiniO

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Being more visible isn't an advantage?

GreeBo wrote: »

I propose that it would have the exact same advantages of having DRLs on, but for the people behind you?

While front lights/DRLs greatly help with visibility of vehicles during the day, especially from higher distance, I honestly can't think of any scenario when rear lights during the day in good weather would help to see a vehicle.

frozenfrozen

CiniO wrote: »

While front lights/DRLs greatly help with visibility of vehicles during the day, especially from higher distance, I honestly can't think of any scenario when rear lights during the day in good weather would help to see a vehicle.

Ok so make them opt out instead of opt in. Seeing as most on the road including gardai have no rear lights during rain and dusk