Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on [email protected] for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact [email protected]

Wales v Ireland Match Thread (thanks for nothing awec)

1424344454648»

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 12,450 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    There are a lot of tedious discussions on this forum, but this one takes the biscuit. We have absolutely no idea what Sexton was or wasn't saying to the medics, whether he was giving out about going off or disagreeing with them, whether he forgot to take the washing in or left the immersion on, we have no idea.
    I'm going with the immersion. It's the kind of thing that would distract anyone Irish. :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,930 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    I think it’s completely wrong to question the decision of the medical personnel who are charged with your safety and health. He couldn’t stand, walk unaided or get up for ages, yet his wasn’t accepting the decision. No player wants to go off, but they don’t behave like that.

    It’s baffling that his attitude isn’t a more widely commentated upon issue.

    He’s supposed to be the captain. Leadership for the team is more important than his ego but he doesn’t grasp that unfortunately.

    So he is being taken off because he isnt in full control of his mental faculties and you want to berate him for not being in control of his mental faculties?

    Do you think perhaps, that if he was able to think logically then he wouldnt be going for a HIA in the first place?


  • Registered Users Posts: 279 ✭✭redmca2


    GreeBo wrote: »
    So he is being taken off because he isnt in full control of his mental faculties and you want to berate him for not being in control of his mental faculties?

    Do you think perhaps, that if he was able to think logically then he wouldnt be going for a HIA in the first place?




    Can you think of any other player who reacts / has reacted the way JS does in such situations?

    As a captain his attitude is appalling


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,930 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    redmca2 wrote: »
    Can you think of any other player who reacts / has reacted the way JS does in such situations?
    I would say most players who go off for a HIA are acting irrationally at the time. You often see them struggle to act normally and/or fall over.
    redmca2 wrote: »
    As a captain his attitude is appalling
    You are assuming that he was still aware that he was the captain or even that he was Johnny Sexton.

    I think you are conflating his known anger at being strategically substituted with his irrational behaviour after a serious head injury....


  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    I appreciate there is always a bit of mud slinging and tribalism when it comes to sport - but some of the accusations here are cheap and incredibly juvenile and people really need to reign in the bitterness.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 5,835 ✭✭✭OldRio


    Wrong thread.


  • Registered Users Posts: 279 ✭✭redmca2


    GreeBo wrote: »
    I would say most players who go off for a HIA are acting irrationally at the time. You often see them struggle to act normally and/or fall over.




    So, he was so concussed he didn't know where he was then?


  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 35,017 Mod ✭✭✭✭AlmightyCushion


    redmca2 wrote: »
    So, he was so concussed he didn't know where he was then?

    It can certainly happen and it looked like he was out cold.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,951 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    Healy. Showed again why he is the top loosehead in Ireland over last 4 years.. Talk of his demise has been premature and unfounded here. Best option for loosehead. Killer had a decent outing when came in off the bench. Both will hold their place for rest of tournament barring injury.

    Herring gave away 2 penalties i think but all round solid if not spectacular. Won his battle compared to Jones. Kelleher made an instant impact when he came on in open play and solid scrum and lineout. People have been focusing on how much Ryan will benefit from having POC as coach. I think and hope he could also do wonders for Kelleher who has buckets of potential and with Poc's help the Line out issues he's had could be lessened. Questions have have be asked above previous lineout coaches.
    Id hope Kelleher can leap frog Herring by end of tournament.

    Porter and Furlong Excellent scrum considering down a man for 65 + minutes. Furlong showed more wheels than Lowe to try and stop rees zammit in the corner. Wants his Jersey back. Love seeing that hunger in defence. Others new to wearing a green coloured Jersey could take note.. two excellent options for Tight head. Happy with both in the 23 but expect Furlong to wrestle Jersey back by end of 6 nations.

    Ryan Beirne and Henderson. Ryan was playing very well. Had the lineout humming and stole an nice one. Hopefully not too serious but have to be careful with the Head. Great outing from Henderson considering the layoff but was a bit sluggish too for Wales first try. Would hope he can get consistency in his game if he starts v France. Need himself Beirne and Ryan in the 23 as currently above the chasing pack of prentenders. Beirne backed up his club form and those questioning his size for the scrum should take note of how dominant the Irish scrum was down to 7 men defensively. If Ryan is OK id start the same partnership again.

    Back row. I was personally against stander and o mahoney being in the same international team anymore before Doris was injured and I think Farrell called up the wrong player. Doris an 8 was replaced with an uncapped player who plays mainly 6. I think with Doris out Conan should have been called up if fit after Cardiff game. Anyone else out id agree with Coombes in. O mahony gave away a poor penalty and then no arguments over the red card. Was foolish and for me he has serious work to do to earn his spot back in the 23. He is most likely suspended for next 3 games +. With Doris and o mahony out I think Farrell will have to play stander. Personally I think he went missing for large parts of the game yesterday. Sure he got a highlight with the carry v Toby F but down a member of the back row too often he left it to others to carry. Vdf and connors both played solid games.

    Murray and Park.
    Murray was typical of his play over last few years. Best scrumhalf we currently have but not the same Murray we had back pre 2019. 1 or 2 poor box kicks. Park im sorry but i don't see an international standard scrum half.. pace at the breakdown is all well and good but his pass is too sporadic for this level. Based on the current panel Casey should be in the 23 from now on and id hope the park experiment will be consigned to history.. still don't know how he is there ahead of some of the other options we have..

    Sexton and burns.
    First off I hope sexton is OK after the knee to the temple. He is needed in the 23 for France. For Burns see above re Park. I thought it was strange he came on when Henshaw was having a HiA. I thought with the extra space larmour at 13 would have been a better option. Hopefully Byrne leapfrogs Burns into the 23. If sexton is out I hope Harry Byrne has been training with the senior Squad. He needs games over the next 2 months. We need to see more of him what ever level it is.

    Centres. Best centre partnership we have and has been the best for 3 or 4 years. Pity they have had their injuries hopefully we get to see them string 5 games together in a row.

    Wings.
    Postive :Lowe has a nice left boot. Negative was short game time, looked sluggish, heavy footed maybe even lazy in defense. Nearly Lost a foot race with furlong. Both tries scored in his corner and while we were down a man and not in an easy situation he chose the wrong option. Earls.. best days are behind him. Larmour will push for inclusion. Conway I'm not sure what his story is haven't been seen in weeks. Daly.. been in the squad awhile now.. still only played 18 mins.. would like to see him get a start.

    Keenan.. best of back 3. Very solid. His path to the starting team shows the benefit of the 7's system that the IRFU neglected for years. Suprrised the inter pros didn't have another mini 7's tournament in this window.

    Positives.. the basics were an improvement on the autumn. Scrum lineout and we took kicks at goal when on offer. The front 5 and bench were very good. Centre partnership and keenan.

    Negatives.
    The back row conundrum. Id call up conan to play 8. Coombes or ruddock 6 and vdf or connors 7 with stander on the bench.. the back up 9 and 10 didn't work can we look at the other 2 on the panel now. Discipline and kicking from hand.

    I just wanted to say that appreciated this post. While I don't agree with everything that you've written, I like reading a post that has some thought and consideration in it. Its much better than "player A is a disgrace" or "player B should never play for Ireland again" or "the coaches should be fired" rubbish. So thanks.


    I don't really have much to add about the game that hasn't already been said but I will comment on Lowe's role in the 2 Welsh tries. On the first one he stayed out on the support runner(s) Halfpenny and Reece-Zammut (I think). The cover didn't get across on North. Maybe Lowe should have gone in as some have suggested.
    On the second try he did go in, the Welsh player passed and we were left with the TH trying to get across to stop Reece-Zammut in the corner (great effort by Furlong). Maybe Lowe should have stayed out as some have suggested.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 9,923 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    redmca2 wrote: »
    Can you think of any other player who reacts / has reacted the way JS does in such situations?

    As a captain his attitude is appalling

    I think you're conflating things here; it's not reasonable to compare his reaction here to, say, his reaction when he was subbed off vs France because here, he had just sustained a knee to the head.

    As I've said on the previous page, I've been a critic of his behaviour in the past but what you're saying here is that you're expecting leadership from a player who's just been sparked. It's not a reasonable expectation, for very obvious reasons.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 722 ✭✭✭phily2002


    redmca2 wrote: »
    So, he was so concussed he didn't know where he was then?

    Happens a lot, I've had team mates come up to me wondering what's going on, no clue they're even playing a match. That's guys who weren't even sparked just taking a knock.
    Ever see a fighter in his corner after a tough round. Some of them haven't a clue what's going on.
    Sexton was down a long time from a knee to the head. If you think he was fine and just a bit grumpy then fair enough...


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,930 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    redmca2 wrote: »
    So, he was so concussed he didn't know where he was then?

    What do you think HIA's are about exactly?


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,822 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    Yeah_Right wrote:
    I don't really have much to add about the game that hasn't already been said but I will comment on Lowe's role in the 2 Welsh tries. On the first one he stayed out on the support runner(s) Halfpenny and Reece-Zammut (I think). The cover didn't get across on North. Maybe Lowe should have gone in as some have suggested. On the second try he did go in, the Welsh player passed and we were left with the TH trying to get across to stop Reece-Zammut in the corner (great effort by Furlong). Maybe Lowe should have stayed out as some have suggested.


    Stay out, stay in.... Wingers are on a hiding to nothing in defending against an overlap that was usually created by a mistake by someone inside.

    Maybe Lowe could have prevented either try but so in theory could any of the 14 others.

    I hope it isn't the only aspect of his game that people noticed. He puts in a huge shift on and off the ball and I think that is appreciated.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,450 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    First Up wrote: »
    Stay out, stay in.... Wingers are on a hiding to nothing in defending against an overlap that was usually created by a mistake by someone inside.

    Maybe Lowe could have prevented either try but so in theory could any of the 14 others.

    I hope it isn't the only aspect of his game that people noticed. He puts in a huge shift on and off the ball and I think that is appreciated.
    Especially by the forwards. :)

    I think that's why Furlong made such an effort to cover across; all that running across the pitch to congratulate the pack after a notable scrum success has to be reciprocated.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 9,923 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    First Up wrote: »
    Stay out, stay in.... Wingers are on a hiding to nothing in defending against an overlap that was usually created by a mistake by someone inside.

    Maybe Lowe could have prevented either try but so in theory could any of the 14 others.

    I hope it isn't the only aspect of his game that people noticed. He puts in a huge shift on and off the ball and I think that is appreciated.

    The Rees-Zammit one wasn't an overlap tho. Ringrose was lined up vs North, Lowe to Halfpenny and Keenan to Rees-Zammit. Lowe bit in on Ringrose's tackle of North.

    I'd be less critical of Lowe for the George North try tho, where it looked like Henderson remained too narrow and left Lowe in no man's land.

    He did make some good blindside carries tho and had one massive kick. Bit of a mixed bag for him.


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,930 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    First Up wrote: »
    Stay out, stay in.... Wingers are on a hiding to nothing in defending against an overlap that was usually created by a mistake by someone inside.

    Maybe Lowe could have prevented either try but so in theory could any of the 14 others.

    I hope it isn't the only aspect of his game that people noticed. He puts in a huge shift on and off the ball and I think that is appreciated.

    +1 and especially close to the line where there isn't really the time for someone else (typically the FB) to take out the overlap, despite Furlong almost proving me wrong :)

    Further up field the winger should take the man with the ball IMO.
    That results in either him passing or play breaking up. If he passes then there is still come for the cover and using touch as an extra man, but if you stay outside you risk getting cut open totally IMO.
    Either way I presume its something that they have decided ahead of time as its not really something you can decide on the fly as the covering man wont know who to take.


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,930 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    aloooof wrote: »
    The Rees-Zammit one wasn't an overlap tho. Ringrose was lined up vs North, Lowe to Halfpenny and Keenan to Rees-Zammit. Lowe bit in on Ringrose's tackle of North.

    Yeah, for this one I think he is 100% at fault, you don't come in if there is already someone there to make the tackle. It ended up a double tackle on North leaving a 2 on 1 overlap outside.
    Was still a good finish under pressure though.
    I'd be less critical of Lowe for the George North try tho, where it looked like Henderson remained too narrow and left Lowe in no man's land.

    I think the offload did for them all to be honest, not sure where our centres were but Lowe was out there on his own and the flankers were too narrow, I dont think anyone was going to stop that.



    Incidentally the first few seconds show one of the examples of Healys missed tackles...he just doesnt look with it to me, there was no massive step, he just seemed to go down on one knee and then couldnt make the tackle?


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 9,923 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    GreeBo wrote: »
    I think the offload did for them all to be honest, not sure where our centres were but Lowe was out there on his own and the flankers were too narrow, I dont think anyone was going to stop that.

    Ya, it was a quality offload from Navidi in fairness. And maybe there was a slight switching off as it was on penalty advantage as well.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,301 ✭✭✭Snickers Man


    Arduach wrote: »
    Great career??

    That's fair. He was awesome in the match where we beat the All Blacks in Lansdowne Road. But that was nearly three years ago.

    Hasn't got near that level of performance since.


  • Registered Users Posts: 196 ✭✭joficeduns1


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Yeah, for this one I think he is 100% at fault, you don't come in if there is already someone there to make the tackle. It ended up a double tackle on North leaving a 2 on 1 overlap outside.
    Was still a good finish under pressure though.


    I think the offload did for them all to be honest, not sure where our centres were but Lowe was out there on his own and the flankers were too narrow, I dont think anyone was going to stop that.



    Incidentally the first few seconds show one of the examples of Healys missed tackles...he just doesnt look with it to me, there was no massive step, he just seemed to go down on one knee and then couldnt make the tackle?

    The camera cut doesn't help his case. I think North's first step to the left just left Healy flatfooted for when he stepped to the right. I'd say fatigue played a part and he'd be disappointed, but I wouldn't write him off on his performance overall.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 26,930 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    I'd say fatigue played a part and he'd be disappointed, but I wouldn't write him off on his performance overall.

    Yeah he looked bunched alright, lack of match fitness I guess.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 294 ✭✭Scratchly


    Henderson was poor there. Firstly gives away the penalty and then when he rejoins the defensive line he gets sucked back in by Navidi who was well covered by Healy and Stander and it left Lowe at sea. Ironically Lowe was a doing things right here. Trusting the players inside and fanning out to cover the offload.

    The second try Lowe should have a done better. Watching it back Beirne was on the ball just before it too and Wales were clearly holding on but Barnes wasn't interested.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,822 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    Scratchly wrote:
    Henderson was poor there. Firstly gives away the penalty and then when he rejoins the defensive line he gets sucked back in by Navidi who was well covered by Healy and Stander and it left Lowe at sea. Ironically Lowe was a doing things right here. Trusting the players inside and fanning out to cover the offload.

    The second try Lowe should have a done better. Watching it back Beirne was on the ball just before it too and Wales were clearly holding on but Barnes wasn't interested.

    The term hurlers on the ditch comes to mind. We lost that match because we were a man down for 65 minutes and we could still have won it.

    I think Sexton has lost half a yard but nobody else has convinced me they are ready yet. I'd like Murray to pass faster, flatter and further and I'd also like forwards to be running onto the passes they get in 2nd and 3rd phase possession.

    We'll know more after Sunday. Ruddock for POM. I wouldn't change much else - yet.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,303 ✭✭✭nigeldaniel


    Lowe had 3 green to his left and a red to his right, that's why he hesitated on what to do. Always go with the ball is my thinking but on the pitch, things are not always that simple.

    Dan.



Advertisement