Reliable & budget EV for elderly

krissovo

My father who is a proud (stubborn) Kerryman and in his senior years is looking for as trouble free motoring as he can get to last 10 years for a max budget of €15,600 (€30 per week) but if one suits as cheap as possible. He is looking to buy in the next 6 months and I thought this would be quite easy and just pick a 30kwh Leaf but I am not so sure now.

Some details.... Range needs to be 120km including winter, annual usage is 7600>7800 km’s (78,000 over the life of the car) and his average drive is 70% road 30% motorway and he drives fairly slowly (100kmph on motorway). He does do 2 annual trips that are 280kms so rapid charge would be handy.

My gut feel was that a relative low mileage 30kwh leaf would be perfect but I would worry about the range over time. My next go to was the Zoe but rapid charge would be pain at the price point for the 2 annual trips. Ioniq’s and early I3’s are starting to hit the budget but not sure the I3 would make the range. What do you think?

zg3409

Ioniq 28kWh, i3, 40kWh leaf are all good options.

Main issue is public charging on trips beyond cars round trip range. Be sure there is chargers on the route typically driven, and that there is 2nd and 3rd options should the first one be busy, broken or blocked.

There is a 28kW high mileage ioniq for 14k, that might work but it won't stay around long
If they don't do regular commute fuel savings won't be high, and for the gasske factor of IDD public charging it might be better to stay ICE petrol.

Expecting any 15,000 euro used electric car to last 10 years is optimistic. Sure it can be done, but you are going from reliable to possibly quite old car when say its 15 years old. I am sure its possible, but I would be worried about reduced range particularly on say a 15 year old 40kWh leaf that's 15 years old. Once range drops below the 100km winter range needed it would be better to sell it to someone who needs less range.

An ioniq 28kWh can reliably do 160km round trip winter and 170 to 210km summer. When its 15 years old the battery will probably manage 100km winter, but no one knows for sure as they have only been around 4 years.

Markcheese

Renault Zoe , ze 40

Plenty of range , 15 grand budget should get you a 2 or 3 year old car ,

kermitpwee

Buy him a small petrol like a Yaris or indeed a Sandero or Stepaway

krissovo

kermitpwee wrote: »

Buy him a small petrol like a Yaris or indeed a Sandero or Stepaway

It definitely the logical choice but he has the opportunity of free charging at his home and genuinely like's EV's, convivence (always full at start), pre-heating and the driving experience is perfect for his age

kermitpwee

krissovo wrote: »

It definitely the logical choice but he has the opportunity of free charging at his home and genuinely like's EV's, convivence (always full at start), pre-heating and the driving experience is perfect for his age

Yes but he only has 15600 and they car has to last him 10 years, difficult to be sure of getting that from an electric car perhaps. It all depends how risk averse he is, it sounds like he needs certainty

kermitpwee

What's his budget for fuel every week or is he counting zero as the budget if he has free charging?

If its Zero that could be brilliant for him and over the 10 years would save him a lot over a petrol

kermitpwee

Based on his mileage in a petrol doing 45mpg he would need 780 euro in petrol a year, it doesn't sound a lot but over 10 years that's 7800!

kanuseeme

A phev >? this might be older than what you were thinking but its only 11k or so. https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/vauxhall-ampera/27101142

Plenty of outlanders,

My mother got one of these and she is very happy with it, https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/bmw-2-series-2017-225xe-phev-sport-e-drive-auto/25951634 , high miles on that one.

Best of luck.

ted1

Something like this ?

https://www.adverts.ie/22758955

krissovo

kermitpwee wrote: »

What's his budget for fuel every week or is he counting zero as the budget if he has free charging?

If its Zero that could be brilliant for him and over the 10 years would save him a lot over a petrol

The €30 per week makes up the overall budget (15,600) and includes the fuel. If the plan is solid he would only need €20 > €30 a year for a couple of fast charges as the majority would be provided in his sheltered home.

krissovo

kermitpwee wrote: »

Based on his mileage in a petrol doing 45mpg he would need 780 euro in petrol a year, it doesn't sound a lot but over 10 years that's 7800!

Thanks for this, it really validates the use case!

krissovo

kermitpwee wrote: »

Yes but he only has 15600 and they car has to last him 10 years, difficult to be sure of getting that from an electric car perhaps. It all depends how risk averse he is, it sounds like he needs certainty

I did offer to buy a car for him as gift but he is determined to do this within his pension/savings budget so I wanted him to be enabled as he can be with limited risk.

kermitpwee

He is very caught financially for an electric to last him 10 years.
Better to buy a 1litre car for 3500 euro and get 5 years out if it at 4000 euro fuel for the 5 years. Thats 7500 for 5 years motoring. Then start again when the 5 years is up if needed.
Has he a budget for repairs and servicing?

Markcheese

Servicing on an ev should be pretty negligible, a pre-nct once over an occasional coolant change ,and tires should see him right ,

ELM327

^^ this is a myth, EVs have suspensions and brakes etc

pwurple

ELM327 wrote: »

^^ this is a myth, EVs have suspensions and brakes etc

No, it's not a myth. We have an EV and a PHEV, real world lived experience.

Phev service has cost 500+ per year minimum. EV has never been over 90 euro a year. PHEV is worst of all worlds when it comes to maintenance.

ICE's need timing belts, oil changes, coolants yadda yadda yadda. So, by comparison , yes, EV's are negligible.

On lasting 10 years, in Ireland due to our temperate climate the expectation is that EV's battery lifespan should be good, especially if it is not left in a state of low charge for extended periods. Sounds like it won't be in this case. My EV was 4 years old before it lost it's first battery state of health bar.

You should be able to get a 2017 Nissan for that money

ELM327

I just spent 4k on maintenance for my EV. Just a heads up as it's not always as maintenance free as some claim.

Gumbo

ELM327 wrote: »

I just spent 4k on maintenance for my EV. Just a heads up as it's not always as maintenance free as some claim.

In fairness, that was a full suspension refresh on a Tesla model S.

ELM327

Gumbo wrote: »

In fairness, that was a full suspension refresh on a Tesla model S.

No it wasnt, it was for a few balljoint and arms wear after 180k km, which would be needed on all EVs. Not a full refresh. And it included tires - which are needed on all EVs too.

pwurple

pwurple wrote: »

.............
Phev service has cost 500+ per year minimum. EV has never been over 90 euro a year. PHEV is worst of all worlds when it comes to maintenance.........

what mileage are you doing in the PHEV?
€500+ per year minimum seems awfully high. did you buy a sh11ter or something?

oinkely

For reference, we currently have a 132 Leaf Tekna 24. Health is around 84% (lost one bar) and range is around 100km driving easy at this time of year. You would want to be arriving at a charger / home at that point though. We have had it for about 4 years. Service costs were 4 tyres. Never had it in a garage for routine services. Did have the inverter fail which cost about 1500 to repair.

Our four other leafs that we have had in the last 5 or 6 years cost us 2 tyres and one service in nissan to maintain warranty.

Charge 100% of the time at home and the range covers our commuting distance with a little to spare.

In all, despite the cost of replacing the inverter in the leaf, i would say savings over our previous 1.4 L petrol scenic would be in the region of €1000 per year.

listermint

ELM327 wrote: »

I just spent 4k on maintenance for my EV. Just a heads up as it's not always as maintenance free as some claim.

Jaysus !


That's abysmal for what a three year old car ?


Must have been a big window. That's ridiculous money on any metric.

I'd say youd be searching hard to find a Leaf needing 4k 'maintenance'

listermint

listermint wrote: »

Jaysus !


That's abysmal for what a three year old car ?


Must have been a big window. That's ridiculous money on any metric.

I'd say youd be searching hard to find a Leaf needing 4k 'maintenance'

Actually what 250 per tyre that's 1k. Where the other 3k go ?...

ELM327

listermint wrote: »

Jaysus !


That's abysmal for what a three year old car ?


Must have been a big window. That's ridiculous money on any metric.

I'd say youd be searching hard to find a Leaf needing 4k 'maintenance'

listermint wrote: »

Actually what 250 per tyre that's 1k. Where the other 3k go ?...

June 2016 car, so nearly 5 years old at this stage, although it's been largely parked since last march/april!
Yes, about 1k on tires.
Looking at the invoice the rest was on the following:


Replacement charge port
4 * toe and drop links, along with associated parts (arms etc, all itemised)

Wiper linkage and wiper assembly
New USB ports internally (replacement center console)


Total labor is 30% of the cost.


Similar to a premium car dealer prices, but likely something like a leaf or a kona would be cheaper.

I remember having similar work done at a nissan dealer and paying half that price if that

krissovo

Not much chance of my father of getting into a high value model S and having high cost suspension rebuilds. A Zoe or leaf does have decent aftermarket spares that any garage mechanic could fix easily and at low cost so I would not be overly concerned.

This Renault Zoe is the favorite so far, my father is in the UK so he can get a decent spec car for the money and most are around 15,000 miles so useful life. He is arranging a test drive for next week and really excited to try one.

He nearly got stung by buying online a battery lease car that he thought was cheap, luckily he got his deposit back but with cars showing a couple of grand cheaper it was an easy trap to fall into.

EDIT: LOL that one is a battery lease as well! The search continues......

listermint

ELM327 wrote: »

June 2016 car, so nearly 5 years old at this stage, although it's been largely parked since last march/april!
Yes, about 1k on tires.
Looking at the invoice the rest was on the following:


Replacement charge port
4 * toe and drop links, along with associated parts (arms etc, all itemised)

Wiper linkage and wiper assembly
New USB ports internally (replacement center console)


Total labor is 30% of the cost.


Similar to a premium car dealer prices, but likely something like a leaf or a kona would be cheaper.

I remember having similar work done at a nissan dealer and paying half that price if that

Still though the links and arms should be coming in about 200 to 250 per corner. That's another 1k.

2k on labour or being robbed on parts .. just shocked at those prices they're mad.

slave1

It's a while since it was live but early model Zoe and Leaf both are subject to battery lease, first question to be asked when looking as they won't advertise it!

Kramer

pwurple wrote: »

No, it's not a myth. We have an EV and a PHEV, real world lived experience.

Phev service has cost 500+ per year minimum. EV has never been over 90 euro a year. PHEV is worst of all worlds when it comes to maintenance.

I'm perplexed as to how your PHEV is costing €500+ per year, minimum, to service . What is it? A Chiron PHEV?

.

My 5 series PHEV costs just over €80 per year to service & luxury German cars aren't known as being particularly cheap to service, at main dealers.

ELM327

listermint wrote: »

Still though the links and arms should be coming in about 200 to 250 per corner. That's another 1k.

2k on labour or being robbed on parts .. just shocked at those prices they're mad.

Both and neither.
Premium main dealer prices are expensive both for parts and for labor. If I had an out of warranty BMW 7 series at 4.5 year old and 185k km on the clock needing that work done I'd suggest it was similar price.


Not the "no maintenance for EVs" line that is usually trotted out here. "Less maintenance" yes but not none

listermint

ELM327 wrote: »

Both and neither.
Premium main dealer prices are expensive both for parts and for labor. If I had an out of warranty BMW 7 series at 4.5 year old and 185k km on the clock needing that work done I'd suggest it was similar price.


Not the "no maintenance for EVs" line that is usually trotted out here. "Less maintenance" yes but not none

Hmm average 65 per hour for labour . Thats 30 hours labour for that job. I don't think that's a 4 day job frankly regardless of dealer .


Guess this should really show folks the cost of a Tesla. Alot of the stuff about saving on petrol or diesel just swallowed up in scenarios like this. Still though an entire refresh after that mileage still seems a bit short time wise.

ELM327

listermint wrote: »

Hmm average 65 per hour for labour . Thats 30 hours labour for that job. I don't think that's a 4 day job frankly regardless of dealer .


Guess this should really show folks the cost of a Tesla. Alot of the stuff about saving on petrol or diesel just swallowed up in scenarios like this. Still though an entire refresh after that mileage still seems a bit short time wise.

Labor is 140 per hour


It was in for about 2.5 days total, not sure how many hours I was billed for.
And what it does show is what folks should already know. An out of warranty premium car that can really only have most jobs done at the main dealer is going to be expensive. I expected to pay more if I'm honest. (And I have another appointment next friday to change/upgrade the MCU at a cost of €1.5k)

listermint

ELM327 wrote: »

Labor is 140 per hour


It was in for about 2.5 days total, not sure how many hours I was billed for.

Ouchy!

Noted !

Place there for independents to diversify into EVs. I suppose that might be why that Rich rebuilds shops in the US might be taking off.

beauf

ELM327 wrote: »

I just spent 4k on maintenance for my EV. Just a heads up as it's not always as maintenance free as some claim.

I'm not sure a premium brand high performance car is useful metric. It's the equivalent of a high mileage Porsche out of warranty. That's what you should be comparing running costs with. Not a super mini or hatch back. Even then Tesla is a relatively new brand and competitively low volume. That will also incur a price premium over more mass market models and manufacturers.

You can't expect the running costs of a Toyota from a Maserati.