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Have you been fined and will you pay?

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,481 ✭✭✭Allinall


    timeToLive wrote: »
    Power corrupts

    Where's the corruption in this case?

    I've only had pleasant interactions at checkpoints.


  • Registered Users Posts: 283 ✭✭timeToLive


    Allinall wrote: »
    I've only had pleasant interactions at checkpoints.


    Ok cool. lets reduce it to 4km sure.. why not? The interactions are pleasant!


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,481 ✭✭✭Allinall


    timeToLive wrote: »
    Ok cool. lets reduce it to 4km sure.. why not? The interactions are pleasant!

    I wouldn't have a problem with that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,074 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    Allinall wrote: »
    Where's the corruption in this case?

    I've only had pleasant interactions at checkpoints.

    I wouldn't go so far as to call it corruption but it is an interesting case.

    The photographer is clearly a professional photo journalist and as such is classed as an essential service.

    He/she was able to produce id and proof of occupation.

    I'd like to hear from the member of AGS but that's not going to happen.

    So a citizen going about their lawful business is left expecting a fine.

    Not a good result and a poor example of policing by consent.

    I agree that most interactions with AGS are pleasant.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,099 ✭✭✭plodder


    Yes, it was the first thing that I show at ALL checkpoints, I pass at least 1 a day, he took the ID and walked around checking the tax/insurance/NCT (all in order) then he asked for my driving licence.

    I told him I'm a photographer and he could see the laptop and two camera bodies and lenses on the passenger seat.

    If he had any doubt about my bona fides he didn't mention it to me, i explained that I was sent to get pics of people in the snow.

    I have been working in photojournalism for about 20yrs and this Garda has really bugged me because he simply didn't listen to me.

    If he does follow through with the fine, it won't be paid and if necessary I will goto court (which is a waste of my time and the Garda ...and the court)
    I'd say when he got back to the station and defrosted a bit, it'd be very surprising if he followed it up. It wouldn't look good at all if a case like that went to court.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,038 ✭✭✭The Continental Op


    This amused me when I read it this moring.

    Gardaí install checkpoints on non-essential airport travel in new operation

    Going on holiday here have a €100 fine.

    Wake me up when it's all over.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 424 ✭✭Cerveza


    This amused me when I read it this moring.

    Gardaí install checkpoints on non-essential airport travel in new operation

    Going on holiday here have a €100 fine.

    Eamonn Ryan making noise about it on the media this morning.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,509 ✭✭✭Purgative


    Since the lockdown, I've had solo trips to town for: shopping, animal feed, prescriptions, recycling, take-aways. Waved through by the gards each time.

    Once I took my wife for her physio - no problem to the gards. In my experience all the gards have been totally sound putting up with this shoite.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,249 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    Cerveza wrote: »
    Eamonn Ryan making noise about it on the media this morning.

    Was the noise... Snore Zzzz Snore Zzzz... that's about the only noise that organic cabbage makes..


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 9,920 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    If he had any doubt about my bona fides he didn't mention it to me, i explained that I was sent to get pics of people in the snow.

    I have been working in photojournalism for about 20yrs and this Garda has really bugged me because he simply didn't listen to me.

    If he does follow through with the fine, it won't be paid and if necessary I will goto court (which is a waste of my time and the Garda ...and the court)


    You can buy pictures of "people in the snow" from any number of libraries out there.... My brother-in-laws business is up dramatically because people are not going out to take pictures that can be substituted from stock libraries at present.



    So I'm not at all surprised by the Garda reaction and it is very unlikely it would fly with a judge either.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,179 ✭✭✭kennethsmyth


    Jim2007 wrote: »
    You can buy pictures of "people in the snow" from any number of libraries out there.... My brother-in-laws business is up dramatically because people are not going out to take pictures that can be substituted from stock libraries at present.



    So I'm not at all surprised by the Garda reaction and it is very unlikely it would fly with a judge either.

    Absolute bull, he’s a photo journalist, doesn’t matter what’s he photographing it’s none of the Gardas business. His work is considered essential end of. You essentially are promoting censorship. Yes I’m taking it to the maximum effect here on purpose but again garda does not decide what photos are essential or not only the occupation. Before you say the Garda thought the journey was non essential it doesn’t matter, photo journalism is considered essential, the subject is irrelevant, no body gets to decide if this photo is essential or not .


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    While I would debate the value of people playing in the snow.

    The rules are clear, that reporting, media production, is an essential service. The Garda should know this.
    I assume anyone working in this would have a letter and appropriate ID.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,099 ✭✭✭plodder


    Absolute bull, he’s a photo journalist, doesn’t matter what’s he photographing it’s none of the Gardas business. His work is considered essential end of. You essentially are promoting censorship. Yes I’m taking it to the maximum effect here on purpose but again garda does not decide what photos are essential or not only the occupation. Before you say the Garda thought the journey was non essential it doesn’t matter, photo journalism is considered essential, the subject is irrelevant, no body gets to decide if this photo is essential or not .
    It hadn't occurred to that that might be what the garda was thinking. By the same token I suppose the newspapers could just print government press releases during a pandemic, or anything else that journalists can get their hands on without leaving home. Extreme example also maybe, but same principle.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    quokula wrote: »
    You think everything is the government's fault for not closing the airports before anyone knew how serious it was, while you also think freely crossing the land border we have with one of the most infected countries on the planet has no impact?

    Luckily we know how dangerous it is now, oh wait, the airport is still open.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 424 ✭✭Cerveza


    Vax and go lads.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,074 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    Jim2007 wrote: »
    You can buy pictures of "people in the snow" from any number of libraries out there.... My brother-in-laws business is up dramatically because people are not going out to take pictures that can be substituted from stock libraries at present.



    So I'm not at all surprised by the Garda reaction and it is very unlikely it would fly with a judge either.

    Stock photos definitely have a place in print media but they are more commonly used to illustrate an article inside the paper.

    No self respecting title would use a stock photo on the front page.

    This link shows a picture that is on P1 of the Irish Times today.
    https://www.irishtimes.com/polopoly_fs/1.4466745.1611514177!/image/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_685/image.jpg

    Two women in swimsuits in the snow at a bathing shelter on the Bull Wall.

    This is the type of pic papers need to make their business viable, especially so during the current pandemic.

    I am surprised at the reaction of the member of AGS. I'd like to know why he took issue with a professional doing his job which is listed as an essential service in the legislation.

    Like you I'd be interested in the outcome of any court case.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,896 ✭✭✭Irishphotodesk


    Jim2007 wrote: »
    You can buy pictures of "people in the snow" from any number of libraries out there.... My brother-in-laws business is up dramatically because people are not going out to take pictures that can be substituted from stock libraries at present.

    So I'm not at all surprised by the Garda reaction and it is very unlikely it would fly with a judge either.

    Photojournalism is about reporting live events, not stock imagery.

    Great to hear that your brother in law's business is doing well.

    Chances are I have photographed the judge at his/her appointment - some of my work involves photographing judiciary and counsel appointments at the courts, if I do get a fine and it goes all the way to court, it's possible the judge may dismiss the matter or the Garda might apply for it to be dismissed, either way, I won't be paying a fine if issued.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,838 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    Absolute bull, he’s a photo journalist, doesn’t matter what’s he photographing it’s none of the Gardas business. His work is considered essential end of. You essentially are promoting censorship. Yes I’m taking it to the maximum effect here on purpose but again garda does not decide what photos are essential or not only the occupation. Before you say the Garda thought the journey was non essential it doesn’t matter, photo journalism is considered essential, the subject is irrelevant, no body gets to decide if this photo is essential or not .




    He never said he was even explicitly threatened with a fine. He just said the Guard took his ID and then walked around and checked his tax and insurance and NCT.


    Journalists have to have those as well.


    Perhaps the fella gave off a "How dare you stop me. Do you now know who I am and what I do" vibe? Maybe just annoyed after being stopped a good few times.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,838 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    Photojournalism is about reporting live events, not stock imagery.

    Great to hear that your brother in law's business is doing well.

    Chances are I have photographed the judge at his/her appointment - some of my work involves photographing judiciary and counsel appointments at the courts, if I do get a fine and it goes all the way to court, it's possible the judge may dismiss the matter or the Garda might apply for it to be dismissed, either way, I won't be paying a fine if issued.




    Did he say he was going to fine you?


    Your post just seems to say he asked you questions, never expressed any doubt about your reason for travel and then just checked the rest of the car


    Are you just annoyed that he stopped you? It's a pain in the arse alright being stopped all the time but maybe that came across to him as well that you felt he shouldn't be stopping you? So he reacted and decided to see if there was anything he could do you for?


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    plodder wrote: »
    Eh, I think the fact that recycling centres are open means it's reasonable to believe you are allowed to use them. Like anything else, only one person should be going there, which used to annoy me about going to the supermarket and seeing entire families out for the occasion, but in fairness, I haven't seen much of that lately.

    There's no rule that only 1 person from a family can go to the supermarket.

    Not everyone has someone to babysit their kids and not everyone is able to carry a full load of shopping on their own.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    There's an argument for maintaining the mental well being of the population etc.
    But thats irrelevant. The rule are already defined. The Garda should abide by it.

    Good luck trying to correct a Garda who is wrong, on the roadside. They won't listen to any reason.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,896 ✭✭✭Irishphotodesk


    He never said he was even explicitly threatened with a fine. He just said the Guard took his ID and then walked around and checked his tax and insurance and NCT.


    Journalists have to have those as well.


    Perhaps the fella gave off a "How dare you stop me. Do you now know who I am and what I do" vibe? Maybe just annoyed after being stopped a good few times.

    Both of us were quite courteous and well mannered in the conversation, there was definitely no arrogance or entitlement on my behalf.

    The Garda didn't threaten me, he said I would be getting a fine for being outside my 5km, I explained my role and he didn't want to hear any further, if he had any issue with my credentials as a photojournalist he didn't raise them with me.

    As I mentioned earlier I pass at least 1 checkpoint a day and on this occasion I had been sent to Lusk (co. Dublin) and Dublin city centre so had passed through 3 checkpoints without a bother, and a further 3 checkpoints after this encounter, it's the first time I have had more than a where are you going/coming from , most of the time it's possible to have a little joke with the Garda saying I'm looking for checkpoints to photo and ask if he/she has seen any.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,099 ✭✭✭plodder


    Amirani wrote: »
    There's no rule that only 1 person from a family can go to the supermarket.

    Not everyone has someone to babysit their kids and not everyone is able to carry a full load of shopping on their own.
    Sure, there's no hard rule and if asked they would be reasonable excuses.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,074 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    I'm told I will get a fine by a member who decided I shouldn't be more than 5km from my home, I was working for a national newspaper on shift and out doing my job,

    I was respectful at all times to the Garda and he was with me, I explained to him that I was a photographer on shift and the job was to find people enjoying the snow, I ad previously travelled to lusk too photography as building and a fatal crash scene, I was also in Dublin city centre and passed 2 checkpoints there, after my encounter with the Garda in the Wicklow mountains, I went through 3more checkpoints and not a bother.

    So don't tell me that it's the people getting the fines that are acting the pr1cks , if he does send a fine, I won't be paying it.

    Unfortunately for me I came across one Garda who seemed intent on giving a fine to whomever crossed his path, as a member of the media I am considered an essential worker, I do not choose where to go on my day, I am sent by a picture desk.
    Did he say he was going to fine you?


    Your post just seems to say he asked you questions, never expressed any doubt about your reason for travel and then just checked the rest of the car


    Are you just annoyed that he stopped you? It's a pain in the arse alright being stopped all the time but maybe that came across to him as well that you felt he shouldn't be stopping you? So he reacted and decided to see if there was anything he could do you for?

    You may have missed the first post by the photographer quoted above.

    He says the Garda indicated that a fine will issue.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,896 ✭✭✭Irishphotodesk


    Did he say he was going to fine you?


    Your post just seems to say he asked you questions, never expressed any doubt about your reason for travel and then just checked the rest of the car


    Are you just annoyed that he stopped you? It's a pain in the arse alright being stopped all the time but maybe that came across to him as well that you felt he shouldn't be stopping you? So he reacted and decided to see if there was anything he could do you for?

    He said I was going to be issued with a fine, and asked if I was still living at the address on my driver's licence, to which I responded, yes, I still live there.

    I wasn't annoyed, nor did I have any sense of entitlement, I had a job to do and wasn't able to do it, I have already been on to my office who said they are willing to pay it if they have to but they would prefer if I took it to court (guessing so a story can be made about it)

    It all depends on whether the Garda decides to issue a fine or not, after that we wait until a court date/summons.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,838 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    elperello wrote: »
    You may have missed the first post by the photographer quoted above.

    He says the Garda indicated that a fine will issue.




    Ok. I suppose it was the "member" that I didn't catch. I actually thought he meant someone on boards told him to expect a fine after hearing his story for some reason!


    Only the poster was there. I wasn't there. I was only asking questions. I'm not doubting them or criticising them.



    If they get a fine sure they can appeal it and win. Pain in the arse to have to go through it but it might be nice to get a "slam dunk" on the principal of the thing if the Guard was indeed acting the arsehole.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,838 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    He said I was going to be issued with a fine, and asked if I was still living at the address on my driver's licence, to which I responded, yes, I still live there.

    I wasn't annoyed, nor did I have any sense of entitlement, I had a job to do and wasn't able to do it, I have already been on to my office who said they are willing to pay it if they have to but they would prefer if I took it to court (guessing so a story can be made about it)

    It all depends on whether the Garda decides to issue a fine or not, after that we wait until a court date/summons.


    Yeah, sure if they back you, then you can bring it to court. It should be an easy enough win.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Amirani wrote: »
    There's no rule that only 1 person from a family can go to the supermarket.

    Not everyone has someone to babysit their kids and not everyone is able to carry a full load of shopping on their own.

    Some people take the p in all fairness. I know there are genuine cases. I was queuing outside Lidl last week and the first people I met inside the door were a couple strolling around holding hands.
    My local shop takes 4 people at a time. Again a queue. Inside a woman with 2 teenage children who surely could have waited in the car.
    No law against it but a bit of consideration for others wouldn't go astray.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,179 ✭✭✭kennethsmyth


    Photojournalism is about reporting live events, not stock imagery.

    Great to hear that your brother in law's business is doing well.

    Chances are I have photographed the judge at his/her appointment - some of my work involves photographing judiciary and counsel appointments at the courts, if I do get a fine and it goes all the way to court, it's possible the judge may dismiss the matter or the Garda might apply for it to be dismissed, either way, I won't be paying a fine if issued.

    There’s something about appealing through Garda website first within 28 days, it’s probably so as not to embarrass the gardai in court with silly incorrect fines that get the gardai a bad name. I’d like to think it’s for the citizens benefit but I can’t help feeling it’s to ensure no one Garda has a power trip and does something to embarrass the profession. Even so if a fine is dropped on appeal there should be some form of censure/retraining if the Garda in question. As if it’s dropped it was obviously incorrect.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,179 ✭✭✭kennethsmyth


    He said I was going to be issued with a fine, and asked if I was still living at the address on my driver's licence, to which I responded, yes, I still live there.

    I wasn't annoyed, nor did I have any sense of entitlement, I had a job to do and wasn't able to do it, I have already been on to my office who said they are willing to pay it if they have to but they would prefer if I took it to court (guessing so a story can be made about it)

    It all depends on whether the Garda decides to issue a fine or not, after that we wait until a court date/summons.


    If it’s dropped or you have to appeal on website and it gets dropped ensure your company still does the story - it’s important law is applied fairly and this smells of a Garda not applying it correctly.


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