Will any Sportives go ahead in 2021?

Mercian Pro

The Orwell Randonnee has been pushed back to 28 August but, to quote the club, only time will tell if it's possible to proceed on the new date. One of the early season favourites, the Tour de Foothills, is understandably cancelled.

billyhead

Mercian Pro wrote: »

The Orwell Randonnee has been pushed back to 28 August but, to quote the club, only time will tell if it's possible to proceed on the new date. One of the early season favourites, the Tour de Foothills, is understandably cancelled.

It's worth the wait if it goes ahead.

The Westsportif has been postponed until the end of June, email sent out last week, they are hopeful it will go ahead

https://www.westportif.ie/

Jimbo789

Deleted User wrote: »

The Westsportif has been postponed until the end of June, email sent out last week, they are hopeful it will go ahead

https://www.westportif.ie/

I see they are still taking entries for this one.

harringtonp

65 E. Is that what sportives were charging before the pandemic ?

Corker1

Seems a tad pricey.

Macy0161

I think that one was always a bit more expensive - it's chip timed though iirc?

harringtonp

Macy0161 wrote: »

I think that one was always a bit more expensive - it's chip timed though iirc?

That justifies it to some extent. Given the nature of sportives and the fact roads are open, there is nothing ever stopping a group of lads booking a hotel or b&b and just cycling the route with a pile of food in their pockets. 65x2 would get you a good room and they still get to enjoy the crack around town after ... If there is any ..this year being what it is

I know AGS tried to stop that on the ROK some years back but I never understand what legal basis if any they had.

Macy0161

harringtonp wrote: »

I know AGS tried to stop that on the ROK some years back but I never understand what legal basis if any they had.

When I did it, there was two checkpointed sections. Molls Gap was one. I don't know if they paid/ arranged closed roads (which they had) did it confer extra rights?

Corker1

I suppose there are two options of riding a Sportive route without paying the fee. On the day of the event or any other day.
I think riding the route of a Sportive on the day of the event without paying is bad form. Especially if the Sportive is raising money for Charities or good causes. No one is forcing you to participate on the day. By all means ride the route any other day of the year with a group or solo if you do not want to be part of the Sportive and stump up the fee. Just because you can piggyback on the organisers efforts doesn't make it right and quite honestly to me, it smacks of meanness when I hear of people doing that.

lissard

Corker1 wrote: »

Just because you can piggyback on the organisers efforts doesn't make it right and quite honestly to me, it smacks of meanness when I hear of people doing that.

Couldn't agree more - there are 364 other days in the year to do the same route if you are that way inclined.

selwyn froggitt

2 Wheels Good wrote: »

Fred Whitton in Yorkshire postponed to Sept with the option to defer to 2022, have deferred.

Yorkshire :eek:

Wash your mouth out with soap

It's held in the Lake District in Cumbria and always will be.

AxleAddict

harringtonp wrote: »

65 E. Is that what sportives were charging before the pandemic ?

A few were, some even more (yeah, Ring of Kerry, I'm lookin' at you) but most would typically be around €40 or less - particularly for smaller club sportives. Some sportives have early-bird pricing - as was the case with this one - think it was €45 or something around that - I've taken part in this one the last couple of years and I think they've thrown in a rain jacket and gilet as freebies. Lovely part of the county - would really recommend it to anyone who wants some great scenery and a bit of climbing. One of my favourite along with the Reservoir Dog and the Donegal Bay Spring Sportive.

harringtonp

Corker1 wrote: »

I suppose there are two options of riding a Sportive route without paying the fee. On the day of the event or any other day.
I think riding the route of a Sportive on the day of the event without paying is bad form. Especially if the Sportive is raising money for Charities or good causes. No one is forcing you to participate on the day. By all means ride the route any other day of the year with a group or solo if you do not want to be part of the Sportive and stump up the fee. Just because you can piggyback on the organisers efforts doesn't make it right and quite honestly to me, it smacks of meanness when I hear of people doing that.

These expensive sportive usually happen to be the big ones so you'll probably get accomodation easier and cheaper any other day too.

I guess they are aimed at guys who are targeting the distance. We'll occasionally do close to 150km on a club spin and I've often found at past sportives that you're in a group with fellow club mates and the odd other soul. You may as well have been on a club weekend away.

Reality_Check1

With all the money the average person spends on cycling gear, clothing, upgrades etc etc there’s very little excuse for not throwing a few quid to the organisers of a Sportif which is prob going to a good cause or at least the local club

The Buster

Reality_Check1 wrote: »

With all the money the average person spends on cycling gear, clothing, upgrades etc etc there’s very little excuse for not throwing a few quid to the organisers of a Sportif which is prob going to a good cause or at least the local club

In general I agree with you but I think the price Westportif is charging is really extracting the urine. €65+CI day license + processing fee adds up to just under €75.

The ROK was referenced above and was expensive but at least it was a charity event. Other than a additional voluntary donation there is no mention of the Westportif been a charity event.

I dont think it is a timed event - the Westport Gran Fondo was a timed event so maybe that is what the earlier poster was thinking about.

I have done this event a few times in the past and it is really enjoyable event but I dont see the value in €75 and will not be doing it this year.

Steve SilverMint

€65 is an outrageous price for a sportive, piss take

Weepsie

The Buster wrote: »

In general I agree with you but I think the price Westportif is charging is really extracting the urine. €65+CI day license + processing fee adds up to just under €75.

The ROK was referenced above and was expensive but at least it was a charity event. Other than a additional voluntary donation there is no mention of the Westportif been a charity event.

I dont think it is a timed event - the Westport Gran Fondo was a timed event so maybe that is what the earlier poster was thinking about.

I have done this event a few times in the past and it is really enjoyable event but I dont see the value in €75 and will not be doing it this year.

It's a fundraiser for 2 clubs and a different charity partner each year. It was supposed to be make a wish last year, so presumably still them.

The Buster

Weepsie wrote: »

It's a fundraiser for 2 clubs and a different charity partner each year. It was supposed to be make a wish last year, so presumably still them.

I get its a fundraiser for the two clubs as they mention that on the event website. Absolutely no mention of the charity partner until you go to register and they ask if you would like to make an additional donation to their charity partner, which is Make-a-Wish again this year.

Fair enough if it they are doing it for charity but I would have expected that they advertised that information

Macy0161

The Buster wrote: »

The ROK was referenced above and was expensive but at least it was a charity event.

I don't think it was ever the cost that the Rok really got criticized for, it was the entry process when they made you pay (non refundable) to enter the draw for entry! And that wasn't a CI event.

AxleAddict

The Buster wrote: »

I get its a fundraiser for the two clubs as they mention that on the event website. Absolutely no mention of the charity partner until you go to register and they ask if you would like to make an additional donation to their charity partner, which is Make-a-Wish again this year.

Fair enough if it they are doing it for charity but I would have expected that they advertised that information

Yeah - curious - I'm fairly sure the Make A Wish logo was more prominently displayed on the front page until they tweaked the layout of the website within the last week or so (to add the Westportif Junior section)

Count yourself lucky you no longer need to look at my ugly mug

https://web.archive.org/web/20210301223252/https://www.westportif.ie/

Mercian Pro

The Buster wrote: »

I get its a fundraiser for the two clubs as they mention that on the event website. Absolutely no mention of the charity partner until you go to register and they ask if you would like to make an additional donation to their charity partner, which is Make-a-Wish again this year.

Fair enough if it they are doing it for charity but I would have expected that they advertised that information

In the early years of this event, the main organisers were a number of hotels in Westport, no charity benefitted and you had to register the night before but with special rates in the hotels!


Now it seems to be the two local clubs running it with a number of local sponsors. It's a great area for cycling but the charity arrangement is a bit like shaking a bucket rather than guaranteeing a specific donation.



I also have a real issue with this: "Can I get a refund if I do not attend ?
When paying for your entry on line it is stipulated that this is a non-refundable payment. As soon as a participant enters we incur costs such as admin etc. It is also not possible to transfer entries to any other Events, next year’s event, or a different competitor."

Given the ongoing uncertainty about events happening or not, I really don't find this acceptable for this, or any other sportif, this year in particular.

Macy0161

I don't know - most wouldn't have given a refund or transfer if you couldn't make it? It's a bit different to them having to cancel for whatever reason (which I would have an issue with).

Mercian Pro

Macy0161 wrote: »

I don't know - most wouldn't have given a refund or transfer if you couldn't make it? It's a bit different to them having to cancel for whatever reason (which I would have an issue with).

Went as far as the payment stage on their website and couldn't find any other terms and conditions other than ones used by a UK firm to handle their charity donations. No mention anywhere of what happens if they cancel or inter-county travel is again restricted. I can only assume that their reference to your payment being non-refundable applies.


As a matter of interest, do many other clubs need to fundraiser using sportives. I know I'm in a fairly large one but a quite small subscriptions, when you deduct the CI payment, more than cover the expenses for the year. It's a different matter with a few other sports clubs I'm in where big sums are needed to pay staff and pavilion costs.

harringtonp

Mercian Pro wrote: »

As a matter of interest, do many other clubs need to fundraiser using sportives. I know I'm in a fairly large one but a quite small subscriptions, when you deduct the CI payment, more than cover the expenses for the year. It's a different matter with a few other sports clubs I'm in where big sums are needed to pay staff and pavilion costs.

Our club works of a bank balance of just a couple of thousand euro. My view is (and its not necessarily everyones in the club) that a big balance opens a can of worms. What do you do with it ? Unless a club has a strong youth/junior base it's hard to imagine what you can do with the excess. You're far better off reducing the subscription level for the year (or in the case of our club membership fees were waived for 2021 for anyone who was a member in 2020 on the basis of a lack of club activity due to Covid) to keep the surplus at a small but healthy level. Huge surpluses draw the wrong people into a club and on to a committee, it's amazing how many out there have a strong scent for a money trail.

When it comes to Sportives and charities, I always start from a bases of complete cynicism (think of Benjamin the donkey in Animal Farm ) until it's obvious that the charity is the main motive for the sportive. There's cute boyos out there in spades and they all realise that by saying you're supporting charities you're playing to peoples soft side. They know they can often get away without giving specifics. Bigger events are aware that pledging a thousand or two to a charity enables them to take in multiple times that amount through higher entry fees and more entrants.

There are some great charity cycles out there, the ROK is the obvious one in spite of the stick they've got over pushing it as far as they can. But there are plenty of smaller club based ones (often with lower entry fees) where all proceeds after running expenses end up with the target charity.

With regards to fund raisers for clubs or token handoffs to charities, unless you see very specific details on what exactly it is for, you may as well assume you are funding the committee and a select few others next sunny cycling holiday

ednwireland

harringtonp wrote: »

Our club works of a bank balance of just a couple of thousand euro. My view is (and its not necessarily everyones in the club) that a big balance opens a can of worms. What do you do with it ? Unless a club has a strong youth/junior base it's hard to imagine what you can do with the excess. You're far better off reducing the subscription level for the year (or in the case of our club membership fees were waived for 2021 for anyone who was a member in 2020 on the basis of a lack of club activity due to Covid) to keep the surplus at a small but healthy level. Huge surpluses draw the wrong people into a club and on to a committee, it's amazing how many out there have a strong scent for a money trail.

reduced our club fees to a fiver for 2021, the sportive gave us enough to make donations to local charities ( we never specifically supported a charity with the event). also having a decent float meant that if we had to cancel the sportive at short notice we could cover expenses, buts we werent going to get rich running ours but we were one of the cheaper ones.

harringtonp

ednwireland wrote: »

reduced our club fees to a fiver for 2021, the sportive gave us enough to make donations to local charities ( we never specifically supported a charity with the event). also having a decent float meant that if we had to cancel the sportive at short notice we could cover expenses, buts we werent going to get rich running ours but we were one of the cheaper ones.

I'm generally of the view that club sportives are great and deserve to be better supported. They're usually cheaper, well organised and use the event proceedings in a very constructive way.

Macy0161

harringtonp wrote: »

the ROK is the obvious one in spite of the stick they've got over pushing it as far as they can.

Pretty high cost, once you dig underneath "raised €x" iirc.

Corker1

Just as there are all shapes and sizes of Sportive, there is a multitude of motivations for individuals, clubs and organisations to get involved. And where filthy lucre is involved sometimes people with skewed motivations can embed themselves. I think it is important to have transparency when it comes to involvement of charities or good causes. I think rider motivations vary too. Some will definitely want to ride an event to support a specific charity, but I suspect what most riders want to get out of participating in a Sportive, is the physical challenge, camaraderie of the peleton and an enjoyable day on the bike. For many, that a charity will benefit is a bonus.
Where I do have a problem is where an event organiser cynically uses a charity as a 'brand enhancer'. Using the charity logo on their website but not giving them a fair cut of the funds raised. A bit like the Ryanair scratch cards. Or only putting a link to 'donate here' or maybe giving only money raised from a raffle on the day to the Charity and none of the entry fees. I can only speak for our club by guaranteeing that every red cent raised from our Sportives goes to charities and community projects. The club neither gets or wants a cut. From my perspective, my priorities when organising a sportive are that all riders have the best day possible and get well looked after. That everyone gets around the course safely. That club members and community helpers have a positive experience. That all money raised goes to deserving charities and causes and that we enjoy running it enough, to want to come back and do it all over again the following year.

Mercian Pro

Corker1 wrote: »

From my perspective, my priorities when organising a sportive are that all riders have the best day possible and get well looked after. That everyone gets around the course safely. That club members and community helpers have a positive experience. That all money raised goes to deserving charities and causes and that we enjoy running it enough, to want to come back and do it all over again the following year.

Long may you continue to deliver on those priorities Corker - looking forward already to the next outing on the Dog on 5 September. https://www.facebook.com/ReservoirCogsCC/


I suppose I had hoped that the Leisue Commission in CI might factor some of those targets into their deliberations before sanctioning events but maybe that is too ambitious and impractical.