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enforcement of 4 steps holding ball rule

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Comments

  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    If a player played the ball after 4 steps he'd be bouncing or soloing the ball constantly.

    I'd prefer to just see a time limit/distance on it than it being confined to an impractical number of steps.
    4 seconds seems like an adequate time.
    You could take 4 steps in a second and not really go anywhere.

    In the AFL they just distance.. 15 metres before it must be bounced.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,198 ✭✭✭ dobman88


    We dont need any more AFL influences in GAA, it's a stain on the game already.

    The steps rule is rarely enforced and only usually by the most whistle happy referees. Even at my level, play in the lower junior leagues, we are told constantly at training "take your steps". Only time we would get blown is if its completely obvious and taking the proverbial.

    If a fella gets bottled up and is genuinely trying to get out and play the ball, ref usually gives him a fair shot at it before calling steps which I dont actually have a problem with as it keeps the game flowing.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,687 ✭✭✭ corny


    There's a further inconsistency in how the rule is applied.

    If you show any indecision while in possession you are far more likely to be penalised by the ref. Look sure of yourself and you can take as many steps as you want. Look a bit panicked and you'll be blown up.

    Same goes for if you are bottled up by a couple of defenders....suddenly 4 steps max is enforced.

    Neither being uncertain nor having players around you should sway the referee but it does. Maddening.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 79 ✭✭✭ Nayeli Tinkling Surgery


    corny wrote: »
    There's a further inconsistency in how the rule is applied.

    If you show any indecision while in possession you are far more likely to be penalised by the ref. Look sure of yourself and you can take as many steps as you want. Look a bit panicked and you'll be blown up.

    Same goes for if you are bottled up by a couple of defenders....suddenly 4 steps max is enforced.

    Neither being uncertain nor having players around you should sway the referee but it does. Maddening.

    Agree 100 with looking uncertain. Players often take 5,6 or 7 steps and dont get penalised. But countless times a player have taken 2 or 3 steps, looks uncertain, might throw a dummy handpass, and will get penalised.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,791 ✭✭✭✭ Strumms


    The problem isn’t the rule. It’s the lack of want or ability to enforce it on a consistent basis. Players seem if they are tackled / challenged to be able to take 6 or 7 steps before either passing or bouncing or soloing the ball.

    It’s been apparent during the last couple of championships very much. Sometimes if the referee indicates an advantage to a player having been fouled they often get the benefit of stumbling/running about 6 or 7 steps before passing, bouncing or soloing ... ref still indicates an advantage but he should be blowing and awarding the original free or even a free the other way depends.


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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 6,551 Mod ✭✭✭✭ SeaFields


    Steps while in on goal can be absolutely laughable at times. You'll see a guy take 10+ plus steps before burying the sliotar. The ref would be lynched if he blew for it too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,791 ✭✭✭✭ Strumms


    SeaFields wrote: »
    Steps while in on goal can be absolutely laughable at times. You'll see a guy take 10+ plus steps before burying the sliotar. The ref would be lynched if he blew for it too.

    Referees only loyalty should be to the rules. Ok I’ve never refereed a GAA match but you’d want to be a hell of a schmuck to be considering and reacting to anything apart from the rules, black and white.... be it crowd reaction, players, sideline, media before the game..history of the teams.... whatever, block it out.

    Player was told his mother had terminal cancer last week ? He was on a yellow that’s 100% a second...tough, rules is rules.

    Schools final. St Davids 1-11 St Kevin’s 1-12... davids player fouled in the square after 81 minutes, penalty.. David’s have won last 4 out of 5, Kevin’s not since 1975... fûck them, rules is rules...

    Same with steps, 4, 4 only.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,272 ✭✭✭ Lost Ormond


    watching gaa football and hurling on tv. am i right in saying the rules around not carrying the ball for 4 steps are very lax.

    The rule is here:

    https://www.gaa.ie/my-gaa/getting-involved/gaelic-football#:~:text=The%20ball%20can%20be%20carried,it%20back%20into%20the%20hand.

    i often see a player taking 2 or 3 steps, getting tackled while holding the ball and proceeds to push the player away and taking a few more steps. more than the 4 steps.

    do referees allow this as long as the player isnt taking the pi55? or am i just not seeing it properly and they are only taking 4 steps.
    I would change the rule to something more like the Aussies rules and distance
    If refs are fairly consistent and allow all teams to carry more then wheres the problem?
    If a player played the ball after 4 steps he'd be bouncing or soloing the ball constantly.

    I'd prefer to just see a time limit/distance on it than it being confined to an impractical number of steps.
    4 seconds seems like an adequate time.
    You could take 4 steps in a second and not really go anywhere.

    In the AFL they just distance.. 15 metres before it must be bounced.
    Would agree with doing that.
    dobman88 wrote: »
    We dont need any more AFL influences in GAA, it's a stain on the game already.

    The steps rule is rarely enforced and only usually by the most whistle happy referees. Even at my level, play in the lower junior leagues, we are told constantly at training "take your steps". Only time we would get blown is if its completely obvious and taking the proverbial.

    If a fella gets bottled up and is genuinely trying to get out and play the ball, ref usually gives him a fair shot at it before calling steps which I dont actually have a problem with as it keeps the game flowing.
    The steps rule isnt enforced that much but saying AFL influence on Gaelic football is a stain on the game is hogwash.
    Strumms wrote: »
    Referees only loyalty should be to the rules. Ok I’ve never refereed a GAA match but you’d want to be a hell of a schmuck to be considering and reacting to anything apart from the rules, black and white.... be it crowd reaction, players, sideline, media before the game..history of the teams.... whatever, block it out.

    Player was told his mother had terminal cancer last week? He was on a yellow that’s 100% a second...tough, rules is rules.

    Schools final. St Davids 1-11 St Kevin’s 1-12... davids player fouled in the square after 81 minutes, penalty.. David’s have won last 4 out of 5, Kevin’s not since 1975... fûck them, rules is rules...

    Same with steps, 4, 4 only.
    Refs have to have an appreciation for the players and what theyre doing. You cant be completely rigid black and white with every rule as a ref. There has to be more than that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,791 ✭✭✭✭ Strumms




    Refs have to have an appreciation for the players and what theyre doing. You cant be completely rigid black and white with every rule as a ref. There has to be more than that.


    Ohhh officials can appreciate away... but...

    You have to be rigid... A referee has to make sure the rules are adhered to by both sides, equally and evenly ...the very same standard and manner not just in 70 minutes but week in week out... if you are not going to do that, send yourself to the sideline....give somebody who values fairness and performance of him / her and fellow officials a shot....


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,272 ✭✭✭ Lost Ormond


    Strumms wrote: »
    Ohhh officials can appreciate away... but...

    You have to be rigid... A referee has to make sure the rules are adhered to by both sides, equally and evenly ...the very same standard and manner not just in 70 minutes but week in week out... if you are not going to do that, send yourself to the sideline....give somebody who values fairness and performance of him / her and fellow officials a shot....

    Every game is not the same. A derby game, key promotion/relegation battle cant be and shouldnt be reffed in the same manner as a run of the mill clash between sides who are not major rivals, dont play each other often, have little shared history.
    The context is important and vitally so.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 20,791 ✭✭✭✭ Strumms


    Every game is not the same. A derby game, key promotion/relegation battle cant be and shouldnt be reffed in the same manner as a run of the mill clash between sides who are not major rivals, dont play each other often, have little shared history.
    The context is important and vitally so.

    I disagree... every game is the same, or should be as far as the rules go and their application. No room for context only the rules. They should apply to every team, player and by proxy every supporter..the onus and responsibility is on the players and management... and the referee to administer the rules and and sanctions equally.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,198 ✭✭✭ dobman88


    The steps rule isnt enforced that much but saying AFL influence on Gaelic football is a stain on the game is hogwash.

    Not hogwash at all. The mark is the most silly rule ever brought into GAA. I could almost understand the mark from the kick out, but the advanced mark has been completely farcical.

    Last thing we need is more AFL influence. Put the rule at 15 metres like they have in AFL and you'll just have refs blowing randomly, like they do already with the advanced mark. Quite often you see a ball not travel the required distance and it's a free kick. Pure nonsense.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,198 ✭✭✭ dobman88


    And that's not having a go at the refs, they do a thankless job. It's stupid rules.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,469 ✭✭✭ ShyMets


    Strumms wrote: »
    I disagree... every game is the same, or should be as far as the rules go and their application. No room for context only the rules. They should apply to every team, player and by proxy every supporter..the onus and responsibility is on the players and management... and the referee to administer the rules and and sanctions equally.

    While I don't completely disagree I do think a times common sense needs to be applied.

    If we applied the rules rigidly the ref would be calling fouls every couple of minutes.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,791 ✭✭✭✭ Strumms


    dobman88 wrote: »
    Not hogwash at all. The mark is the most silly rule ever brought into GAA. I could almost understand the mark from the kick out, but the advanced mark has been completely farcical.

    Last thing we need is more AFL influence. Put the rule at 15 metres like they have in AFL and you'll just have refs blowing randomly, like they do already with the advanced mark. Quite often you see a ball not travel the required distance and it's a free kick. Pure nonsense.

    The mark is like some shît concocted by a handful of teenagers after one of them found a key to his parents drinks cabinet when they went away for the weekend... Slows down the game.... and while it was thought it might bring a resurgence to the skill of high fielding and kick passing ... it goes too far in enabling the game to be slowed down and balls fielded high are no more common than they were before the rules changing.

    Teams want to move the ball as effectively, efficiently towards a scoring opportunity. That’s not changed. What the mark HAS done is enable a team say 5 points up with 2 minutes to go, to absolutely take time, opportunity and momentum away from the opposition.... see players taking extra yards after the mark, by the time the ref pulls them up, the player argues, retreats, scopes the right pass... 30 seconds wasted. It’s gone from a free flowing fast sport, to a slightly more careful and staccato effort...

    If I’m a back and a good ball played into a forward he is about to turn, I’m ready to disposes him, by virtue of the fûcker catching the ball, I am denied that opportunity, the viewers and denied that competition between the two athletes... loads of other examples..”ohh look ... I caught the ball, now I have a free...”

    It’s not done anything for football...whoever invented it as regards football needs a good psychologist, those who ratified it do too.

    But I’m off topic somewhat... steps need counting, whistle needs blowing and mark needs throwing.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 79 ✭✭✭ Nayeli Tinkling Surgery


    ShyMets wrote: »
    If we applied the rules rigidly the ref would be calling fouls every couple of minutes.

    But thats not the referee's fault. If players are fouling, and ruining the game, that is the players' fault. If players are punished with yellow and red cards the fouling will stop. Applying the rules rigidly is the best way to ensure fairness.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,526 ✭✭✭ ArielAtom


    As has been pointed out, it should be easy to apply. However that is not the case, prime example is Murchans goal, he undoubtedly took excess steps, however the ref took into account Moran hanging out of him m, Moran stopped short of a drag down as that would have resulted in a black card. As murch was taking excessive steps should the ref blown for a free or as he did play advantage?


  • Registered Users Posts: 37,537 ✭✭✭✭ Itssoeasy


    Strumms wrote: »
    Ohhh officials can appreciate away... but...

    You have to be rigid... A referee has to make sure the rules are adhered to by both sides, equally and evenly ...the very same standard and manner not just in 70 minutes but week in week out... if you are not going to do that, send yourself to the sideline....give somebody who values fairness and performance of him / her and fellow officials a shot....

    That’s in a perfect world but I’ve watched enough GAA over the year to know no two refs are the same. And I don’t think it’s an intent to be unfair. Different refs intercept the same rules in slightly different ways. It’s life. I mean the steps rule not being universally enforced isn’t a modern thing. Ray Cummins of cork tells the story of Christy ring before one the 1970s three in a row telling him to buy rugby shorts with pockets because according to ring ray Cummins could put the sliotar into his pocket and the ref wouldn’t blow up for steps.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,198 ✭✭✭ dobman88


    ArielAtom wrote: »
    As has been pointed out, it should be easy to apply. However that is not the case, prime example is Murchans goal, he undoubtedly took excess steps, however the ref took into account Moran hanging out of him m, Moran stopped short of a drag down as that would have resulted in a black card. As murch was taking excessive steps should the ref blown for a free or as he did play advantage?

    :pac:

    Your memory is slipping aul stock. Murch picked up the ball close enough to halfway and made it all the way to the 20 before Moran got a hand on him. In that run from midfield to the 20, he made 3 plays taking 6 to 8 steps each time.

    Yes the ref should play advantage when Moran has a tug on him and let the steps go but he should have been blown 3 times before Moran gets to him.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,526 ✭✭✭ ArielAtom


    dobman88 wrote: »
    :pac:

    Your memory is slipping aul stock. Murch picked up the ball close enough to halfway and made it all the way to the 20 before Moran got a hand on him. In that run from midfield to the 20, he made 3 plays taking 6 to 8 steps each time.

    Yes the ref should play advantage when Moran has a tug on him and let the steps go but he should have been blown 3 times before Moran gets to him.

    Twas just an example of what we are seeing.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,198 ✭✭✭ dobman88


    ArielAtom wrote: »
    Twas just an example of what we are seeing.

    Fair enough. Sounded like Moran was on his back from the halfway line in your post.

    I was hoping you wouldn't argue the point and make me watch a video of it so thanks for that lol. I was sitting right behind the goal watching Kerry part like the Red sea so the pain is still fresh :pac:


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,494 ✭✭✭ ahnowbrowncow


    I remember Kevin McLoughlin's 13 steps to equalise for Mayo in the last few seconds and relegate Donegal.

    https://www.sportsjoe.ie/gaa/kevin-mcloughlin-took-13-steps-kicking-score-relegated-donegal-154941

    I don't like the 4 step rule anyway, I think that time is far fairer and would be easier for the referees. Another issue with the steps rule is that a small player would need to solo or bounce the ball quite a bit more in order to cover to same ground as a taller player.


  • Registered Users Posts: 519 ✭✭✭ blackvalley


    ShyMets wrote: »
    If we applied the rules rigidly the ref would be calling fouls every couple of minutes.

    He certainly would until the players A Learned the rules and B realised that the ref was going to apply them without fear or favor .


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,272 ✭✭✭ Lost Ormond


    Strumms wrote: »
    I disagree... every game is the same, or should be as far as the rules go and their application. No room for context only the rules. They should apply to every team, player and by proxy every supporter..the onus and responsibility is on the players and management... and the referee to administer the rules and and sanctions equally.
    No theyre not. A match official can treat a derby game between rivals/ a promotion relegation battle very differently to a friendly or a early round league game.
    There very much has to be freedom for refs to interpret things slightly differently depending on the temperature of the game.
    dobman88 wrote: »
    Not hogwash at all. The mark is the most silly rule ever brought into GAA. I could almost understand the mark from the kick out, but the advanced mark has been completely farcical.

    Last thing we need is more AFL influence. Put the rule at 15 metres like they have in AFL and you'll just have refs blowing randomly, like they do already with the advanced mark. Quite often you see a ball not travel the required distance and it's a free kick. Pure nonsense.
    AFL influence on gaelic hasnt been a bad thing and a mark rewards long passing which has reduced from levels it was in the game.
    But thats not the referee's fault. If players are fouling, and ruining the game, that is the players' fault. If players are punished with yellow and red cards the fouling will stop. Applying the rules rigidly is the best way to ensure fairness.
    Its not the refs fault at all. Fouling wont stop with yellow/reds alone but just applying the rules rigidly isnt the best way to ensure fairness as you wont always be able to do that. you have to have the freedom to let things go/let play continue in many(some cases) to allow a better contest.
    Itssoeasy wrote: »
    That’s in a perfect world but I’ve watched enough GAA over the year to know no two refs are the same. And I don’t think it’s an intent to be unfair. Different refs intercept the same rules in slightly different ways. It’s life. I mean the steps rule not being universally enforced isn’t a modern thing. Ray Cummins of cork tells the story of Christy ring before one the 1970s three in a row telling him to buy rugby shorts with pockets because according to ring ray Cummins could put the sliotar into his pocket and the ref wouldn’t blow up for steps.
    Totally agree. No refs in any sport are ever the same and you have to take that into account


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭ Rodin


    If they were only taking 6-7 steps it wouldn't be a problem.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 79 ✭✭✭ Nayeli Tinkling Surgery


    This is a bit of divergence from the original topic of taking steps but

    IMO, a foul is foul regardless of what game it is. If mayo are playing galway, are players allowed hit harder? Take more steps? Get away with a punch? just because its a derby.

    The whole "that wouldn't be free in championship" is ridiculous statement you hear during league games! I watch loads of sports, and I've never seen or heard of such a thing in other sports.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,272 ✭✭✭ Lost Ormond


    This is a bit of divergence from the original topic of taking steps but

    IMO, a foul is foul regardless of what game it is. If mayo are playing galway, are players allowed hit harder? Take more steps? Get away with a punch? just because its a derby.

    The whole "that wouldn't be free in championship" is ridiculous statement you hear during league games! I watch loads of sports, and I've never seen or heard of such a thing in other sports.
    I think you have to treat games differently depending on the context of what the game is to help produce a better game.
    A Dublin-Meath game can be treated quite differently to a Louth-Offaly game.

    Im not at all saying you can get away with a punch but small things you may pull up in a contentious derby/ big league game you will or may be more likely to let go in a game that isnt a big derby game/run of the mill league game.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,198 ✭✭✭ dobman88



    AFL influence on gaelic hasnt been a bad thing and a mark rewards long passing which has reduced from levels it was in the game.

    It has been a bad thing. A terrible thing imo. Why do we need AFL influence? Its Gaelic games.

    It rewards long passes but denies the defender a chance to win the ball back. Taking many other skills out of the game like good defending, good tackling. I'm a forward, a big enough lad that usually wins my own ball and even I hate the mark. I'd rather catch the ball, take my man on and let him tackle/defend the situation. That's football. Not catch the ball and get a free kick.

    But anyway, that's off topic for this thread and I dont see us agreeing on it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,272 ✭✭✭ Lost Ormond


    dobman88 wrote: »
    It has been a bad thing. A terrible thing imo. Why do we need AFL influence? Its Gaelic games.

    It rewards long passes but denies the defender a chance to win the ball back. Taking many other skills out of the game like good defending, good tackling. I'm a forward, a big enough lad that usually wins my own ball and even I hate the mark. I'd rather catch the ball, take my man on and let him tackle/defend the situation. That's football. Not catch the ball and get a free kick.

    But anyway, that's off topic for this thread and I dont see us agreeing on it.
    Nearly all sports get influenced/alter over time from experience of other sports especially very similar sports.
    It doesnt take good defending out of the game, it changes how defences operate and why is that a bad thing?
    The tackle is so poorly managed and officiated a change with that would be a very good thing for gaelic football.
    You dont and shouldnt have to accept a mark and can simply play on like now. It should be an option


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,198 ✭✭✭ dobman88


    Nearly all sports get influenced/alter over time from experience of other sports especially very similar sports.
    It doesnt take good defending out of the game, it changes how defences operate and why is that a bad thing?
    The tackle is so poorly managed and officiated a change with that would be a very good thing for gaelic football.
    You dont and shouldnt have to accept a mark and can simply play on like now. It should be an option

    Ah yeah. As I said, we wont agree :pac:

    What dya think about the enforcement of steps. Lest we get distracted with talk of the mark


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