Battery draining, garage no help

CarPark2

TLDR
131 Ford Mondeo
- new battery fitted in Jan 2020,
- soon afterwards new battery was reading low again
- Ford main dealer says that only solution is to strip car and unplug each component one-by-one to find which one is draining the battery (could potentially be days worth of labour).

Is there any other solution?

Detailed version
I have a 131 Ford Mondeo.
Towards the end of 2019, the battery started giving trouble, e.g., radio turning off five minutes after I stopped the car and alerting that the battery was low. I was due a service, so i mentioned it at the main dealer. They took the battery out and charged it all day, then put it back in and said to see how it went. But warned that it would likely need to be replaced (at that stage it would have been 6 years old). There was no improvement after that, and the following week it wouldn't start and i needed to jump start it. So battery was replaced at the end of January 2020.
In early March, it started to show up as low again (radio turning off soon after car stopped and notice on dash indicating low battery). Soon after that we entered lockdown and it has had very little driving since then (before Covid i would have driven about 650 Km/week, since Covid i drive about 30 km/week). Throughout that time, it has shown up as low, but has been driving OK. Last week, I was stopped, had the radio on and was charging my phone. When i tried to start the car, it wouldn't start. I left everything off for a while, and eventually it started.
I had a service this week (Ford main dealer) and i asked them to look at the battery, as it is still under guarantee.
When i collected it, they said the battery is fine (i would have driven it 80Km before it got to them).
This is the test result:

I explained again how it had not started the week before and was regularly showing as low. The guy said that there must be something in the car that is draining it, but to find that, they would have to take it for a few days, and strip it down completely, plugging out each component one-by-one to figure which one is draining the battery. I asked how much that would cost and he said he couldn't estimate, because it could be the first component they check (cheap) or the last one they check (presumably very expensive). Apart from that, he offered no solution and by his tone, he seemed to make clear that the offered solution wasn't one he would recommend.

So is there anything i can do that won't cost me a fortune in labour? At the moment the car gets very little use, but when things eventually get moving again, it would seem to be very unreliable if the battery is always at a low level.

Lurching

Old method was to put a multi-meter across the battery and to remove one fuse at a time, to at least narrow down the circuit.
I've never actually done this myself though and currently have a car with a slight drain.

MarkR

Do you have a dash camera installed? Something plugged into the 12v socket? Ford cigarette lighter is always on. If your car wasn't being driven, the alternator wouldn't be charging it.

CarPark2

Lurching wrote: »

Old method was to put a multi-meter across the battery and to remove one fuse at a time, to at least narrow down the circuit.
I've never actually done this myself though and currently have a car with a slight drain.

I have the feeling that there must be a slightly more clever way of doing this than literally unplugging every component one-by-one (which actually includes stripping the car - for example to get at the electric windows etc.).

Miscreant

CarPark2 wrote: »

I have the feeling that there must be a slightly more clever way of doing this than literally unplugging every component one-by-one (which actually includes stripping the car - for example to get at the electric windows etc.).

You don't have to strip the car at all for this process. Removing the fuse for the circuit is enough and should not take several days (more like an hour TBH)

In the past, you would get a multimeter and measure the current draw across the battery terminals. Then you would pull a fuse and check the measurement again to see if it has reduced... Rinse and Repeat until the current draw has dropped and it would then mean that whatever fuse you pulled last was likely the culprit.

I had to do this for a new stereo install on one of my cars as it had been wired in to the permanent live instead of the ignition.

CarPark2

MarkR wrote: »

Do you have a dash camera installed? Something plugged into the 12v socket? Ford cigarette lighter is always on. If your car wasn't being driven, the alternator wouldn't be charging it.

No dash camera. I sometimes leave the phone charger plugged into the cigarette lighter (but not all the time). I will make sure to plug that out and see if it makes a difference.

CarPark2

Miscreant wrote: »

You don't have to strip the car at all for this process. Removing the fuse for the circuit is enough and should not take several days (more like an hour TBH)

In the past, you would get a multimeter and measure the current draw across the battery terminals. Then you would pull a fuse and check the measurement again to see if it has reduced... Rinse and Repeat until the current draw has dropped and it would then mean that whatever fuse you pulled last was likely the culprit.

I had to do this for a new stereo install on one of my cars as it had been wired in to the permanent live instead of the ignition.

Thanks. How can a main dealer be so poorly informed?

1874

Have a look in the dark, when the car is off, see if for some reason any lights are staying on? maybe a brake light switch, check the connections on the battery are tight

9935452

CarPark2 wrote: »

I have the feeling that there must be a slightly more clever way of doing this than literally unplugging every component one-by-one (which actually includes stripping the car - for example to get at the electric windows etc.).

A slightly different way is to do fuse by fuse.
Remove fuse . Using multimeter measure current being taken. Replace fuse.
Onto next fuse.
Then you have it down to a circuit

CarPark2

9935452 wrote: »

A slightly different way is to do fuse by fuse.
Remove fuse . Using multimeter measure current being taken. Replace fuse.
Onto next fuse.
Then you have it down to a circuit

Thanks. Is that a job for a standard local garage?

Miscreant

CarPark2 wrote: »

Thanks. Is that a job for a standard local garage?

A garage worth their salt could do this easily. I did it myself using a multimeter and a YouTube video.

hellyeah

Do you have keyless entry? Is a problem in similar year focus.

1hnr79jr65

Do you have a wireless/bluetooth/remote control radio car stereo?

In some cases even with no key in ignition, car radios can be activated which will drain battery and if someone has a remote or something to activate your radio with sound turned down, this will kill your battery.

CarPark2

hellyeah wrote: »

Do you have keyless entry? Is a problem in similar year focus.

No. I don't have keyless entry. I can imagine that would drain the battery.

CarPark2

Sour Lemonz wrote: »

Do you have a wireless/bluetooth/remote control radio car stereo?

In some cases even with no key in ignition, car radios can be activated which will drain battery and if someone has a remote or something to activate your radio with sound turned down, this will kill your battery.

The stereo can pick up my phone and play music from it by bluetooth, but as far as i know that is only when it is turned on.
I don't have any remote control for the car stereo.

Atlantic Dawn

CarPark2 wrote: »

No dash camera. I sometimes leave the phone charger plugged into the cigarette lighter (but not all the time). I will make sure to plug that out and see if it makes a difference.

Not sure on Ford's but on VAG cars the cigarette lighter connection remains live after car is off so would be draining.



Have you checked the light in the boot isn't permently staying on? Get a mobile with the video recording on it and place it in the boot and close, check back on video if the light went out when it was closed.


How many miles/km's are you doing a day? This time of year if you are doing short 4/5 mile trips your car will struggle to replenish the battery power used to start the car and run the lights and heat. Add to that a phone or dashcam being charged and less power again. Rear window demister and probably next the lights would have highest drain.

CarPark2

At the moment, most days it just sits in the driveway. I tend to use for short journeys (5-10 KM) at the weekend.
But the problem started last Feb/March before the lockdown when i was doing about 160 Km/day.

Doctors room ghost

If it’s the factory radio I’d bet it’s that.they were famous for drawing a battery.pull the fuse on that and see.just make sure you have the code for it before you pull it

Toyotafanboi

CarPark2 wrote: »

Thanks. How can a main dealer be so poorly informed?

They aren't, they are probably just not good at articulating that it's just not worthwhile or affordable to do it with them.

Pulling fuses is only a fraction of the repair, in fact it's only a fraction of the diagnostic process and to imply that it's an hours work to fix the car is largely unrealistic unless you get very lucky.

You'll spend an hour pulling fuses and hoping to find a change on one. If you are lucky enough to find an issue, say it's an engine control related fuse, that only leaves around 10 or 15 block connectors, tens of meters of cable and every appiance connected to every block connector to test. Dont forget the wiring is all bound in loom tape and routed left, right and centre across the engine bay and the block connectors are all over the engine bay and many are obscured.

Check all that and take your time, because you could very easily miss it.

Checked it all, took 7 or 8 hours to strip the car at €100 or so an hour.

Found it's a defect with the EGR valve causing the drain, needs a new one @ €500, plus 4 or 5 hours putting the cat back together.

€2k or more at a main dealer in a worst case. It's not the work they want and it's not what you want to pay, they already know that, you don't but they can't really say that to you.

Better off with an independent fella working for €40 or €50 an hour and could fit a second hand part if a part is needed.

It's not always as simple as - it was the radio fuse, so i bought a new radio.

punisher5112

After market alarm fitted?
Bluetooth devices
Boot light goes out for sure.
When locking make sure steering lock is engaged.

pippip

punisher5112 wrote: »

When locking make sure steering lock is engaged.

Never heard of this one, can you elaborate?

punisher5112

pippip wrote: »

Never heard of this one, can you elaborate?

Dash lights can stay on and drain.

Mech1

look up "thermal camera parasitic drain".
if your in Dublin i can try to find your issue.

pippip

punisher5112 wrote: »

Dash lights can stay on and drain.

So does a steering lock cut power to the dash?

Alkers

Look for an auto electrician in your area.

TomOnBoard

All the helpful advice as to individual things to check is fine, but very hit and miss. its not an approach I'd recommend.

You either have:

1. a bad battery - ruled out by the battery test
2. a bad alternator and/or connections to vehicle, including earth
3. a parasitic draw (PD) on one or more circuits

The PD is most likely your problem. It could be caused by any circuit(s) on the vehicle.

Are you technically minded? If so, do a PD analysis, IN A PLANNED MANNER, AND NOT HAPHAZARDLY, As said earlier, this can be done by putting an ammeter between the Earth pole of the battery and the earth cable. At rest, with all doors closed and the car's ECU asleep, a 25-50 milliamp draw might be seen. If you're seeing > 100 ma, you definitely have something going on. This test ought to be your 1st step, and only takes a few minutes if you know what you're doing.

Once you've identified that you have a problem, re-connect the battery and CHECK EACH FUSE for voltage drop across the test points, using a voltmeter
to see what circuit is active. Again, this should be done with everything closed and off (including taping down bonnet-open switches) to identify what circuit is active. This is the modern equivalent of the old "Pull Fuse" approach. If it shouldn't be active, then you've zeroed in. NOTE: there may be more than one circuit so check them all, including underbonnet and any fuses behind the dash.

If you're not technically minded, get a good independent car electrics guy involved. if there's none close to you, a good independent mechanic will know what to do. Note also: All the above ONLY identifies a potential circuit causing the problem. Tracing the point at which the circuit has failed is the next step. it requires more tools and LOTS of patience. There's ABSOLUTELY NO WAY of knowing what kind of costs will arise in terms of remediation at that point, however.

What part of the country are you in?

EDIT: And buy a battery charger to keep it topped up until you sort this out...

punisher5112

pippip wrote: »

So does a steering lock cut power to the dash?

It causes issues in the keyless entry ones so worth a try.

CoBo55

Going back to the beginning January 2020, where did you get the battery? Is it an exact replacement for the one that came out of the car and was it coded in properly? A simple test is to disconnect all earth cables from the battery when the car is being left for a long period and see does it go down. Make sure you have the radio code and know how to enter it into the radio. Was the alternator tested properly by the garage, it's quite a complex charging system and must be working properly to charge the correct type of battery. I wouldn't be happy with that test report, it's very low for a car that's been driven 80Km.

Dirty Nails

TomOnBoard wrote: »

All the helpful advice as to individual things to check is fine, but very hit and miss. its not an approach I'd recommend.

You either have:

1. a bad battery - ruled out by the battery test
2. a bad alternator and/or connections to vehicle, including earth
3. a parasitic draw (PD) on one or more circuits

The PD is most likely your problem. It could be caused by any circuit(s) on the vehicle.

Are you technically minded? If so, do a PD analysis, IN A PLANNED MANNER, AND NOT HAPHAZARDLY, As said earlier, this can be done by putting an ammeter between the Earth pole of the battery and the earth cable. At rest, with all doors closed and the car's ECU asleep, a 25-50 milliamp draw might be seen. If you're seeing > 100 ma, you definitely have something going on. This test ought to be your 1st step, and only takes a few minutes if you know what you're doing.

Once you've identified that you have a problem, re-connect the battery and CHECK EACH FUSE for voltage drop across the test points, using a voltmeter
to see what circuit is active. Again, this should be done with everything closed and off (including taping down bonnet-open switches) to identify what circuit is active. This is the modern equivalent of the old "Pull Fuse" approach. If it shouldn't be active, then you've zeroed in. NOTE: there may be more than one circuit so check them all, including underbonnet and any fuses behind the dash.

If you're not technically minded, get a good independent car electrics guy involved. if there's none close to you, a good independent mechanic will know what to do. Note also: All the above ONLY identifies a potential circuit causing the problem. Tracing the point at which the circuit has failed is the next step. it requires more tools and LOTS of patience. There's ABSOLUTELY NO WAY of knowing what kind of costs will arise in terms of remediation at that point, however.

What part of the country are you in?

EDIT: And buy a battery charger to keep it topped up until you sort this out...

Just to add,don't set your ammeter to miliamps - 10a range.Reconnecting the battery will wake everything up & will take 5 or 6 amps for a few mins. Open the doors & click the locks shut,otherwise you won't get near the fuse box.Never mind the 25 miliamp draw,anything less than 500mA is acceptable.Watch the display on the radio & dash,it should go off in a few minutes,locking the doors will speed it up. It's a common fault on Mondeos,the body computer not shutting down properly. I think there could be a software update. If I bump in to some of the Ford lads I'll ask.

Dirty Nails

CoBo55 wrote: »

Going back to the beginning January 2020, where did you get the battery? Is it an exact replacement for the one that came out of the car and was it coded in properly? A simple test is to disconnect all earth cables from the battery when the car is being left for a long period and see does it go down. Make sure you have the radio code and know how to enter it into the radio. Was the alternator tested properly by the garage, it's quite a complex charging system and must be working properly to charge the correct type of battery. I wouldn't be happy with that test report, it's very low for a car that's been driven 80Km.

That,of course,only applies if it has Stop/Start.
The test report is on a regular flooded battery,I think thats how EFB batteries are tested also. AGM batteries have a different test.

khaldrogo

Haven't read every post......



Fords are known for alternator issues.

I would start there. Get the car to an auto electrician

CoBo55

Dirty Nails wrote: »

That,of course,only applies if it has Stop/Start.
The test report is on a regular flooded battery,I think thats how EFB batteries are tested also. AGM batteries have a different test.

Not necessarily we had a 2008 Connect with very similar problems, turned out to be an incorrect battery so the smart charge function from the alternator switched off and the battery was never fully charged, it was doing a lot of short trips with maybe 2 or 3 day lay-ups in between. The battery was changed to the correct type (calcium something or other I can't remember exactly) never a bother since, it certainly didn't have stop/start.

Dirty Nails

CoBo55 wrote: »

Not necessarily we had a 2008 Connect with very similar problems, turned out to be an incorrect battery so the smart charge function from the alternator switched off and the battery was never fully charged, it was doing a lot of short trips with maybe 2 or 3 day lay-ups in between. The battery was changed to the correct type (calcium something or other I can't remember exactly) never a bother since, it certainly didn't have stop/start.

Thats true. Some freak thing with Fords back then with oddball batteries. An ordinary battery charger couldn't even charge them. The cars with the smart charge units on the neg lead & programming the charge systems didn't apply back them. I think

martinr5232

CarPark2 wrote:

So is there anything i can do that won't cost me a fortune in labour? At the moment the car gets very little use, but when things eventually get moving again, it would seem to be very unreliable if the battery is always at a low level.

The graph on the bottom of that printout is battery state of charge and its low. The battery may have 12.7v but the amps are low i would expect more from a 700a battery.
Is it a genuine ford battery ?? Far as i remember it should be a silver calcium battery.

If the battery is genuine put it on slow charge over night and it should bring up the state of charge.

CarPark2

Thanks for the replies.
The battery was fitted in a Ford main dealer, so I presume it is a genuine Ford part.
The car has stop/start button.
Before they fitted the new battery, they said that the alternator etc was working fine.
I had driven the car 80km, but then I dropped it at the garage (that was 9 am). It wasn’t ready until 5:30 that evening, so I guess they didn’t start work on it until the afternoon.
The car has always been serviced on time and always at a Ford main dealer.

martinr5232

CarPark2 wrote:

Thanks for the replies. The battery was fitted in a Ford main dealer, so I presume it is a genuine Ford part. The car has stop/start button. Before they fitted the new battery, they said that the alternator etc was working fine. I had driven the car 80km, but then I dropped it at the garage (that was 9 am). It wasn’t ready until 5:30 that evening, so I guess they didn’t start work on it until the afternoon. The car has always been serviced on time and always at a Ford main dealer.

Is the stop/start working ??

punisher5112

No need to be service at main dealer unless cost is cheap but highly doubt it....

CarPark2

martinr5232 wrote: »

Is the stop/start working ??

Yes.

Spook_ie

It's just modern electronics on cars running 24x7 IMO and not driving the car enough to recharge the battery.

I have stop/start on my Skoda and it won't function if the ECU thinks the battery is low, so I can monitor when the car thinks there's enough charge in the battery ( the stop/start functions again ) if I don't drive the car for a day or two it requires a considerable run before it thinks it has enough charge again, often in excess of a 30km drive.

9935452

Spook_ie wrote: »

It's just modern electronics on cars running 24x7 IMO and not driving the car enough to recharge the battery.

I have stop/start on my Skoda and it won't function if the ECU thinks the battery is low, so I can monitor when the car thinks there's enough charge in the battery ( the stop/start functions again ) if I don't drive the car for a day or two it requires a considerable run before it thinks it has enough charge again, often in excess of a 30km drive.

Herself has s bmw . 3 years ago stop start stopped working and lights on in the dash.
New battery required. Fitted and coded. Car is back right .
That battery has spent the last 3 years in a tractor with no issues

Pcgamer

My guess is that you need a new alternator. Its not sufficiently powering the battery.

Bring the car for a 20KM drive during the day and use a 20 euro multimeter to measure the voltage of the battery. It should be over 12.2V.

Also measure the voltage when the car is turned on and rev it, the voltage should be over 13.5V.

CarPark2

Spook_ie wrote: »

It's just modern electronics on cars running 24x7 IMO and not driving the car enough to recharge the battery.

I have stop/start on my Skoda and it won't function if the ECU thinks the battery is low, so I can monitor when the car thinks there's enough charge in the battery ( the stop/start functions again ) if I don't drive the car for a day or two it requires a considerable run before it thinks it has enough charge again, often in excess of a 30km drive.

How do you do a 30km drive if the stop/start doesn’t work?

MarkR

CarPark2 wrote: »

How do you do a 30km drive if the stop/start doesn’t work?

The car will still start, but the automatic shut down of the engine won't happen when you're stopped.

CarPark2

MarkR wrote: »

The car will still start, but the automatic shut down of the engine won't happen when you're stopped.

Ah ok. My stupidity. I thought Stop/Start referred to using the button as opposed to putting they key in the ignition 🙈

greasepalm

When new battery was fitted was the need to run diagnostics to reset the battery done as faults could have logged and not cleared and as it was a main dealer would have known.

1874

CarPark2 wrote: »

Thanks for the replies.
The battery was fitted in a Ford main dealer, so I presume it is a genuine Ford part.
The car has stop/start button.
Before they fitted the new battery, they said that the alternator etc was working fine.
I had driven the car 80km, but then I dropped it at the garage (that was 9 am). It wasn’t ready until 5:30 that evening, so I guess they didn’t start work on it until the afternoon.
The car has always been serviced on time and always at a Ford main dealer.

They are just going to (most likely) use their brand, I used to get motorcraft products off their parts desk, so whatever their battery manufacturer of choice is, I assume they would fit the correct battery type for a start-stop type set up. Im not very familiar with new batteries but from a quick read on this thread and a google refresher its the types called EFB & AGM batteries (mentioned by someone else. Ive gotten bad advice from a few main dealers in the past and have rarely (only when absolutely necessary) approached them.
Some batteries need to be coded to the car and have sensors (someone else will have to advise as its outside my knowledge and experience as my cars have all been older).

Pcgamer wrote: »

My guess is that you need a new alternator. Its not sufficiently powering the battery.

Bring the car for a 20KM drive during the day and use a 20 euro multimeter to measure the voltage of the battery. It should be over 12.2V.

Also measure the voltage when the car is turned on and rev it, the voltage should be over 13.5V.

Not certain the OP is technically experienced, someone has advised going to an Auto Electrician, seems to be a good route, might be quicker and less hassle, someone advised checking for current draw and pulling fuses, and then mentioned the bonnet sensor, some cars might not be possible to access fusebox without door open though, Im sure I couldnt even lock a previous car with a door/boot ajar (not something I usually try), but Im sure I came across that while trying to lock a previous car and my current one likewise when the boot wasnt closed correctly (something covered the lock).
Part haynes wiring and part trial and error I pinned down a fuel pump electrical fault in a car a main dealer couldnt locate when they hooked it up to a digital diagnostics, so think an auto electrician might a good bet for the OP.

finno

Did you reset the BMS when new battery was fitted?
The system might think its still the old battery that is in the car.

RandomViewer

Likely faulty alternator,

amacca

RandomViewer wrote: »

Likely faulty alternator,

You can probably diagnose that with a multimeter to

Start car, run at decent revs

Take multimeter and set to voltage (20v scale)

Positive probe of multimeter to battery positive, negative to battery negative (the battery leads need to be connected)

Reading should be around 14v if alternator charging?...not 100% on the voltage I've only gone this with tractors but presume it's same

If not at 14 then alternator isn't charging....

Coukdcalso be diode

CoBo55

amacca wrote: »

You can probably diagnose that with a multimeter to

Start car, run at decent revs

Take multimeter and set to voltage (20v scale)

Positive probe of multimeter to battery positive, negative to battery negative (the battery leads need to be connected)

Reading should be around 14v if alternator charging?...not 100% on the voltage I've only gone this with tractors but presume it's same

If not at 14 then alternator isn't charging....

Coukdcalso be diode

Just be careful with those Ford smart charge systems as the voltage can be quite high for short bursts and could damage the multimeter. Make sure to turn on lights etc when doing the alternator check.

RandomViewer

amacca wrote: »

You can probably diagnose that with a multimeter to

Start car, run at decent revs

Take multimeter and set to voltage (20v scale)

Positive probe of multimeter to battery positive, negative to battery negative (the battery leads need to be connected)

Reading should be around 14v if alternator charging?...not 100% on the voltage I've only gone this with tractors but presume it's same

If not at 14 then alternator isn't charging....

Coukdcalso be diode

Ford system is a bit quirky, charge varies