Caught speeding on motorway

pudzey101

A member of the garda pulled me over during the week on the hard shoulder of the motor way and said I was doing 140kph in a 120kph zone, now I 100% had my cruise control set at 120 MAYBE 125 max and the GPS on my sat nav was indicating it was only 110-115KPH (But I know there not accurate) .

I asked the garda to show me proof that I was actually over the speed limit but she refused, and said a fixed penalty will be issued along with 3 points.

Are they by law to show you on some sort of radar or speed gun that you where over the limit? Because of at the time there where cars flying past me minutes before I was stopped.

Any info appreciated

Francie Barrett

pudzey101 wrote: »

A female garda pulled me over

Uh oh.

Tzardine

pudzey101 wrote: »

A female garda ..........

Is the sex of the Garda relevant? Why mention it?

pudzey101

Oh sorry didn't mean anything by it. Just meant it was a female garda on her own. I always taught there was two in the cars 😂


Edited my title

pippip

Ring your local station and ask them. Maybe even get a record of your correspondence. If you are going to appeal the ticket it may boost your case that you took such action straight away.

artanevilla

Oral testimony is admissible as evidence, your word against the Garda.

pudzey101

pippip wrote: »

Ring your local station and ask them. Maybe even get a record of your correspondence. If you are going to appeal the ticket it may boost your case that you took such action straight away.

Good idea will call down in person with all my documents.

begbysback

I’d challenge it op, it’s a well known fact that females can’t calculate speed accurately, use this as your defence in court.

pippip

Whatever speed you were doing could be irrelevant if procedure wasn't followed so I'd say that's your best bet. I don't think you'll get anywhere disputing the speed.

pudzey101

pippip wrote: »

Whatever speed you were doing could be irrelevant if procedure wasn't followed so I'd say that's your best bet. I don't think you'll get anywhere disputing the speed.

Yeah so I've been told, my partner and son was in the car and said I wasnt over the limit. I had seen the garda car parked in on a slip road ahead so I was hardly going to floor it I just leaves cruise control does its job. But obviously my gauge on my my car must be off😬

Del2005

pippip wrote: »

Whatever speed you were doing could be irrelevant if procedure wasn't followed so I'd say that's your best bet. I don't think you'll get anywhere disputing the speed.

The procedure is that a Garda forms the option that you were speeding and the only way to challenge it is to go to court, where its your word against a Garda. Even if they use a device to detect your speed there's no requirement for it to be calibrated or working correctly

pippip

Del2005 wrote: »

The procedure is that a Garda forms the option that you were speeding and the only way to challenge it is to go to court, where its your word against a Garda. Even if they use a device to detect your speed there's no requirement for it to be calibrated or working correctly

I know there's no point questioning the camera. But is there a requirement for them to show the op when he requested so at the scene?
If not then yeh they're screwed but if they asked and were denied?

pudzey101

pippip wrote: »

I know there's no point questioning the camera. But is there a requirement for them to show the op when he requested so at the scene?
If not then yeh they're screwed but if they asked and were denied?

Thing is she said she said she knew by the speed of the car I was over the limit, and when I asked about proving it with evidence I got ate. Had a few people telling me go to local barracks or solicitor. I'd actually hold my hands up if I was speeding or that but I wasn't in this case!!

pippip

Another point to enquire about, where she got the number from that she couldn't show you. "she knew by the speed of the car" surely she knew by the speed gun which was claiming to tell her you were doing 140kph.

Absolutely crazy how they can use such a process to prosecute people.

Whocare

pudzey101 wrote: »

Thing is she said she said she knew by the speed of the car I was over the limit, and when I asked about proving it with evidence I got ate. Had a few people telling me go to local barracks or solicitor. I'd actually hold my hands up if I was speeding or that but I wasn't in this case!!

Something similar happened to me passed out a very slow car (going 50km max)garda pulled me over said i pass out on a continuous white line at start of overtake i said i didn't garda was just a liar The minute he came up to window he was like a mad man basically as he was fully sh$t trying to dominate me.fine came in post and as the final part of dominating liar of garda fine me from passing a cyclists in a dangerous manner would you believe it !!!!
Plus had my dad in car as witness even he said garda was nutter

Whocare

pudzey101 wrote: »

Thing is she said she said she knew by the speed of the car I was over the limit, and when I asked about proving it with evidence I got ate. Had a few people telling me go to local barracks or solicitor. I'd actually hold my hands up if I was speeding or that but I wasn't in this case!!

He only ate you to dominate you .I doubt it happened in cork

Del2005

pudzey101 wrote: »

Thing is she said she said she knew by the speed of the car I was over the limit, and when I asked about proving it with evidence I got ate. Had a few people telling me go to local barracks or solicitor. I'd actually hold my hands up if I was speeding or that but I wasn't in this case!!

Do you have a dash camera? You can work out your speed with the road markings, it will cost you a day off work to go to court and a solicitor to make sure that you don't feck up. Is the fine and increased insurance going to cost that much?

Mimon

Whocare wrote: »

Something similar happened to me passed out a very slow car (going 50km max)garda pulled me over said i pass out on a continuous white line at start of overtake i said i didn't garda was just a liar The minute he came up to window he was like a mad man basically as he was fully sh$t trying to dominate me.fine came in post and as the final part of dominating liar of garda fine me from passing a cyclists in a dangerous manner would you believe it !!!!
Plus had my dad in car as witness even he said garda was nutter

Something similar happened to a colleague of mine. The guard insisted that she passed on a solid line when there was no solid line on the stretch.

Like the general public there are guards out there with mental issues etc. Their word should not be gospel but sadly our poor legal system allows this.

Whocare

Mimon wrote: »

Something similar happened to a colleague of mine. The guard insisted that she passed on a solid line when there was no solid line on the stretch.

Like the general public there are guards out there with mental issues etc. Their word should not be gospel but sadly our poor legal system allows this.

Yeah wouldn't really do good thinking about it that there mentally ill garda out there making up rubbish and **** fine me for passing out cyclist in dangerous manner to top it off I was probably first motorist to get that fine when it came out he probably got hard on thinking about it . And like you said was not worth hassle of going to court and went you lose it extra penalty points evil man with garda like that you can understand why people record any interaction garda

pippip

It should be two tier.

Where Garda word versus yours = Fine only.
Where evidence is present (camera/photo data) = Fine and points.

But that would make some sense so will never happen.

Mimon

pippip wrote: »

It should be two tier.

Where Garda word versus yours = Fine only.
Where evidence is present (camera/photo data) = Fine and points.

But that would make some sense so will never happen.

Decent compromise but there should be nothing without evidence. The tech is there if Gardai want to have solid evidence when catching speeders.

pudzey101

I actually got a fix charged offence in iv only seen after work. It says it was alleged I was doing 140 in a 120 zone. Knowledgeable friend of mine said if I pay that fixed charged I'm admitting to it and getting 3 penalty points.

He said bring it to court and let them prove I was in the wrong, but I'm not wanting that hassle in my life. Even tho I had 2 witnesses in the car to say I was 100% under the limit and there was no evidence shown of me speeding, just asked for my lisence and safe driving

jelutong

How would the two passengers know what speed you were doing?

jimmycrackcorm

pudzey101 wrote: »

now I 100% had my cruise control set at 120 MAYBE 125 max and the GPS on my sat nav was indicating it was only 110-115KPH (But I know there not accurate) .

The GPS is actually more accurate than the speedometer. Is it actual satnav on the car or say google maps? On my phone I have location history turned on in my maps that I can go back to show when and how long it took me to travel any journey.

Anyway, another good reason to have a dashcam.

Del2005

Del2005 wrote: »

Is the fine and increased insurance going to cost that much?

That there is the problem. Gardai can just pull you over and decide you were speeding, and unless you want to face legal costs, time off work, etc. you have to just suck it up.


However, thankfully for the OP, as far as I am aware, a Garda on their own can't do you with 'their word' - as far as I am lead to believe, they must have a witness (usually another Garda) or evidence (speed gun, for example).


I'd happily bet you'll never hear about this again.

Victor

pudzey101 wrote: »

I 100% had my cruise control set at 120 MAYBE 125 max

Surely this should be an exact number? Which was it?

yamaha4life

I dont think that they can just assume you were speeding!

Last year i was on my way home from hospital my friends mother had a heart attack scare, three of us went up to bring stuff etc. Was late approx 3am on the way home and a garda on his own in a jeep was hiding somewhere near a petrol station on a 60kph zone short stretch about 1/2 mile long didnt see him tbh I probably wouldn't have taken any notice of him anyway.

5 odd miles from that area i got pulled, garda said do you know how fast you were going in 60 zone i said no idea (honestly didn't know but didnt think it was an excessive speed) he claimed i was doing 100kph in the 60kph.

Took my details ask where I was and why i was speeding told him on the story, he went back to the jeep to get the speed gun and came to window the gun wouldn't recall the speed he tried multiple times.

The garda then said because he can't show me the speed i was doing he had to let me off, he said i know you where doing 100kph but the gun wont show it, slow down in future and safe home.

I have also had the other side of the coin went through a junction at 4 am in the middle of junction light changed to amber, garda sitting opposite of junction came straight out after me and claimed i flew through a straight red, 30 mins of over and back garda wouldn't budge passenger said light was green when i entered junction also.

The garda argument was the light was green and I could see it was green from a long way off and i should have been preparing to stop!!! Madness personified.

Didn't bother challenging it took it in the chin following advice from here as it was his word v mine sadly it would be a miracle if judge went against gardas word.

Cee-Jay-Cee

Del2005 wrote: »

The procedure is that a Garda forms the option that you were speeding and the only way to challenge it is to go to court, where its your word against a Garda. Even if they use a device to detect your speed there's no requirement for it to be calibrated or working correctly

Rubbish. They have to be calibrated and they have to produce the calibration certificate in court if required. Theyre sent off to be calibrated every few months and a new certificate issued. Fact.

I'd challenge it, tell them you asked to see the speed gun and she refused to show it to you. As far as I know they have to show you it.

cml387

Victor wrote: »

Surely this should be an exact number? Which was it?

Not necessarily. The cruise control can be set at whatever is on the speedo. I use it all the time and I couldn't swear on where exactly it was set.

kirving

I had a look on their Twitter recently, and it showed an image of a car at almost 800m. This would be fine if no other cars were present, but there were multiple cars in the frame, with the target car partially obscuring another from the perspective of the laser/camera.

I looked at the spec of the gun, and the divergence of the laser at that distance is over 2m wide, so it could have been from the other car. And that's before considering the alignment of the camera.

If it was me, I would have no issue going to court over that particular one with professional evidence.

Del2005

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

Rubbish. They have to be calibrated and they have to produce the calibration certificate in court if required. Theyre sent off to be calibrated every few months and a new certificate issued. Fact.

I'd challenge it, tell them you asked to see the speed gun and she refused to show it to you. As far as I know they have to show you it.

Rubbish is what you are typing

It is not necessary to prove that the electronic or other apparatus was accurate or in good working order.

frozenfrozen

the garda didn't use a gun she admitted to eyeballing the speed

GreeBo

Del2005 wrote: »

Rubbish is what you are typing

From the same link

" In proceedings for an offence referred to in subsection (1), if proof of the offence involves proof of the speed at which a person (whether the accused or another person) was driving, the uncorroborated evidence of one witness stating his opinion as to that speed shall not be accepted as proof of that speed."

Does "one witness" include the Guard making the accusation?

GreeBo

GreeBo wrote: »

Does "one witness" include the Guard making the accusation?

The guard is the witness. They need another witness (ie; 2 people) to do you for it. Hence as I said above, the OP will never hear about this again.

biko

Everything above is of course pure speculation and conjecture and in no way legal advice.

frozenfrozen

Deleted User wrote: »

The guard is the witness. They need another witness (ie; 2 people) to do you for it. Hence as I said above, the OP will never hear about this again.

op says he got fixed charged notice in the post of 140 in a 120

pippip

Del2005 wrote: »

The procedure is that a Garda forms the option that you were speeding and the only way to challenge it is to go to court, where its your word against a Garda. Even if they use a device to detect your speed there's no requirement for it to be calibrated or working correctly

Del2005 wrote: »

Rubbish is what you are typing

Your reading that completely wrong. Pay attention to the details -

It is not necessary to prove that the electronic or other apparatus was accurate or in good working order.

That just means the Garda doesn't have to present proof for every speeding offence they issues. It does NOT state it doesn't need to be maintained and calibrated




(4) The electronic or other apparatus referred to in subsection (1) shall—

(a) be of a type that has been approved by—

(i) the Commissioner or another member of the Garda Síochána not below the rank of Chief Superintendent authorised in that behalf by the Commissioner, or

(ii) the chief executive officer of the National Roads Authority or another officer of that Authority duly authorised in that behalf by the first-mentioned officer,

Basically this is covering that the equipment is official Garda equipment.



It is not necessary to prove that the apparatus is of a type so approved.

Again with a backup that evidence doesn't have to be produced every time.



(6) In proceedings for an offence referred to in subsection (1) it shall be presumed, until the contrary is shown, that—

(a) the electronic or other apparatus used for the tendering of evidence was provided and maintained by a member of the Garda Síochána, or a person authorised under an agreement under subsection (7), and

This is where it states the equipment must be maintained. It is assumed it is UNTIL evidence is shown to the contrary.



So if you were 100% sure the speed gun was wrong you can request the maintenance docs and if they show it wasn't maintained you can enter that as your defence.


AND AS USUAL ALL THIS IS FECK!NG IRRELIVANT TO THE OP!!!!

2012paddy2012

Del2005 wrote: »

The procedure is that a Garda forms the option that you were speeding and the only way to challenge it is to go to court, where its your word against a Garda. Even if they use a device to detect your speed there's no requirement for it to be calibrated or working correctly

Complete rubbish , be careful what you read here.
Speed can only be proved by showing proof.
The device used will show the speed. The fact that it was calibrated will or should be available as a proof. If not look for it. If not case can be dismissed.
Forming opinions only applies to other aspects of road traffic. Legislation, eg , manner of driving , noted , which may lead to an opinion , eg. Dangerous / careless / driving without due care , intoxicant - drunk/drug driving.

Isambard

I suspect that if the Gard swears on oath that the apparatus showed 140, that will be accepted above the OPs assertion that he wasn't.

artanevilla

Oral testimony is admissible as evidence.

ZX7R

Del2005 wrote: »

The procedure is that a Garda forms the option that you were speeding and the only way to challenge it is to go to court, where its your word against a Garda. Even if they use a device to detect your speed there's no requirement for it to be calibrated or working correctly

About 20 years ago while on a motorcycle a lone garda stopped me at a checkpoint .
He made an opinion that I was speeding.
I recieved a summons to court, I went the case was thrown out reason given was a second garda would have been required to be a witness to collaborate the garda opinion.
The law may have changed since then.

phill106

pippip wrote: »

Another point to enquire about, where she got the number from that she couldn't show you. "she knew by the speed of the car" surely she knew by the speed gun which was claiming to tell her you were doing 140kph.

Absolutely crazy how they can use such a process to prosecute people.

Perhaps she felt it in her waters?

wotzgoingon

There is no point fighting it. I didn't read the full thread so may have been mentioned before but if you go to court it's your word against the Garda and the judge will side with the Garda so it's a lost cause to fight it and waste of money(solicitors cost).

Just pay the fine and take the points and next time you see a garda car jam the brakes.

frozenfrozen

frozenfrozen wrote: »

op says he got fixed charged notice in the post of 140 in a 120

I just seen that, I read their post wrongly the first time.

I'd challenge it. The op is aware there is no evidence of him doing that speed. He has his own witnesses that he was under the limit. The Garda has no witnesses, and truth be told, most likely won't even show up to the court, as she's well aware there is no evidence.

It'll be thrown out in record time. I am a photographer and did a few years as a photojournalist, so spent times waiting around courtrooms and listening to all the sh/te of the day.

Whether the OP wants the hassle or not is another thing, but it's completely unfair that the system is designed in such a way that a Garda can randomly invent an offence, and the honest citizen is expected to hire a solicitor, take a day off work and travel to/from the court to have their side heard.

Voodoomelon

I wouldn't give a hoot about the money, its the points that would irk me.

newmember2

Voodoomelon wrote: »

I wouldn't give a hoot about the money, its the points that would irk me.

points = money

youcancallmeal

Friend of mine is a Garda and I asked him about this scenario before, this was at least 15 years ago now so may have changed since then. Anyway he said they drive a constant distance behind suspected speeder and then establish if speeding is occuring based on how fast they are going in order to maintain the distance. Another way is if the garda car is travelling at the speed limit and they see a car accelerating away from them they will use that to establish speeding is occuring. Both fairly crude ways of establishing speeding from a moving vehicle but I wouldn't be surprised if these practices are still in use

pudzey101

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I just seen that, I read their post wrongly the first time.

I'd challenge it. The op is aware there is no evidence of him doing that speed. He has his own witnesses that he was under the limit. The Garda has no witnesses, and truth be told, most likely won't even show up to the court, as she's well aware there is no evidence.

It'll be thrown out in record time. I am a photographer and did a few years as a photojournalist, so spent times waiting around courtrooms and listening to all the sh/te of the day.

Whether the OP wants the hassle or not is another thing, but it's completely unfair that the system is designed in such a way that a Garda can randomly invent an offence, and the honest citizen is expected to hire a solicitor, take a day off work and travel to/from the court to have their side heard.

Thank you great help, the garda was on her own, I had 2 passangers and myself.


I have been told challenge It, don't pay the fine because no evidence was shown and your admitting to doing wrong.

Would i need o solicitor?

It's the penalty points I don't want on my licence. its alot 3 points , and 5 if Convicted.
when I never received any in 14 years

Insurance is high enough at the moment without that.

Also seen this it's so frustrating

Isambard

i don't think the witnesses will be much use to you. Asked in Court, on Oath, if they could swear to your actual speed, I don't think they could answer. It would be very unusual for a passenger to be monitoring the speedo.

GrumpyMe

Isambard wrote: »

...It would be very unusual for a passenger to be monitoring the speedo...

You have obviously never brought my other half for a spin!:D

Isambard

GrumpyMe wrote: »

You have obviously never brought my other half for a spin!:D

perhaps we were in the back?:D