Debt collectors abroad

Guerillabear

Hi folks.

I have a legal question, not looking for any judgement - just someone with some knowledge to share.

If I have lived abroad where the statute of limitations is three years, and I am now in Ireland - does the statute of limitations of Ireland, or the country where the debt was incurred apply?

Another thing I am unclear about, does the statute timeframe begin from the first date the repayment was due to the original creditor, or from the date the debt has been passed on to the collection agency?

The debt is completely inflated and I would like to challenge it so it may be reviewed, but I am not sure about calling and acknowledging the debt.

This is a student debt, to a government institution on the country of question. The country has also been rebuffed by the EU in it’s requests to help it reclaim debt back, with no luck.

I don’t think there is any recourse for them to claim the debt before the statute runs through, besides maybe selling the debt to another agency here in Ireland.

While I don’t feel particularly great about this, I am in no position to pay back this debt and taking the credit hit while running out the statute seems like the only option right now

Thank you for taking the time to read this.

Peregrinus

Depends on how the creditor wishes to proceed.

The usual way of proceeding would be to sue you in the country where the debt was incurred, obtain judgment, and then seek to enforce that judgement against you in Ireland, through the Irish courts. In that event the applicable limitation period will be the one that applies under the law of the country where the debt was incurred.

But the creditor could try just suing you in Ireland, in which case the Irish limitation period would apply.

Note that, while the limitation period in the country where the debt was incurred may generally be 3 years, if this is a student debt, be aware that a lot of countries that have student loan schemes also have an exception in the statute of limitations to provide a longer lmitation period, or no limitation period, for loans under the scheme. So you might want to check if that is relevant to your situation.

jimmycrackcorm

Guerillabear wrote: »

This is a student debt, to a government institution on the country of question. The country has also been rebuffed by the EU in it’s requests to help it reclaim debt back, with no luck.

I don’t think there is any recourse for them to claim the debt before the statute runs through, besides maybe selling the debt to another agency here in Ireland..

Have you ever seen or come across a foreign debt collection being enforced in Irish courts?

Selling debt to a local agency is very dubious when it comes to trying to collect. There are plenty of failure anecdotes.

In any case, I'd be waiting until court proceedings are being drawn up and progressed. Bad debt is bad debt.

guitarhappy

Guerillabear wrote: »

If I have lived abroad where the statute of limitations is three years, and I am now in Ireland - does the statute of limitations of Ireland, or the country where the debt was incurred apply?

Another thing I am unclear about, does the statute timeframe begin from the first date the repayment was due to the original creditor, or from the date the debt has been passed on to the collection agency?

I am not sure about calling and acknowledging the debt.
.

Be very careful about contacting them. In some jurisdictions the statute of limitations re-tolls on the date of your last contact with them. If they attempt to contact you, ignore them until you are absolutely certain the SOL has expired. SOL is your best defense no matter what threat they make. Don't cause the SOL to re toll.

Never acknowledge an alleged debt, make them prove it. I stress the word "alleged."

You can't really determine a strategy for every possibility. You have to stay cool and see what move they make, if any. I know with USA debts they can't collect against you in Ireland due to lack of jurisdiction. They might get a sewer judgement in a US court but there's no way to enforce it.

This could be bogus info though, since you haven't said what country this is in, it really depends on the jurisdictions involved.

Dempo1

My humble opinion is that its highly unlikely that the debt would be chased outside the jurisdiction the debt occurred. Legally and Financially the costs of persuing the debt would be prohibitive.

There's a caveat however and that's the fact its a government debt. Essentially this debt is highly unlikely to ever go away, just like tax debt, there is likely no statute of limitations and also, accruing interest / penalties are possible. Whilst the OP states its a student debt, there's also a small chance there could be academic implications, degree recognition for example although unlikely.

Finally, the OP must consider that in the long term, their ability to live or work in the country in question may compromised if the debt remains outstanding, in the short term this may be irrelevant but who knows.

guitarhappy

It's also a little ambiguous "a student debt, to a government institution" could mean a lot of things. What's a government institution...the school, the lender, or the insurer of the student's loan?

Guerillabear

Sorry guys, I have covid and I wasn’t thinking straight last night.

The country is Denmark - the debt has been accrued through their student support loan system, which was 350 euro per month for nearly 2 years. They have basically showed double the amount I was aware I owed before leaving the country. They pay anyone 700 per month to go to college, and any non-dane has to work 10-12 hours per week. I’m assuming they have doubled the amount suddenly as there was an 11 month period where i worked as a bouncer on weekends during my studies - and i’m assuming the agency I worked for did not log the correct amount of hours I worked per week.

That’s where I’m assuming the extra debt is coming from.

Does anyone know when the SOL began? The Danish SOL applies to any debt in the country, and is 3 years.

Peregrinus

OK, this is complicated.

As I understand it, the Danish student financial support system provides a monthly grant of about DKK 5900 (a bit over €700) plus, if you want to draw it down, an optional top-up loan of about half that amount. The grant is payable monthly for the normal duration of your course plus, if you remain registered in the course, a further 12 months (which means you can repeat a year and still be grant-supported).

There are earnings limits; if you are earning too much you may be asked to repay the grant. Or, you can choose not to draw it while your earnings exceed the limit (which keeps open the option of drawing it for longer than would otherwise be possible).

You talk about a monthly payment of €700, so I suspect you were receiving the grant, not the top-up loan.

As an EU/EEA citizen, you only qualify for educational support if you are a worker or self-employed person in Denmark, and this is the source of the requirement to work 10-12 hours per week. (There are other elements to the “Are you a worker?” test - e.g. you have to work for a continuous period of at least 10 weeks.) And they monitor your status on an ongoing basis and can ask you to submit documentary proof, or renewed proof, etc. It’s all a bit bureacratic.

So, I think one of two things has happened. Either (a) you earned too much and they are demanding that you repay the grants you received or (b) you didn’t work enough hours or otherwise failed some aspect of the “am I a worker?” assessment, so they have decided that you weren’t qualified for the grant. I strongly suspect it’s (b).

Either way, I think you have a problem which may not be solved by looking at the Danish statute of limitations for loans. They may be using the mechanisms of the student loan system to try to track and recover the amount paid to you, but if I am right this was never a loan at all; it’s more in the nature of a grant or allowance that was paid to you but to which (they reckon) you were never entitled. It may be the case that the same limitation rules apply to recovery of state grants paid in error as apply to recovery of loans, but I wouldn’t assume it. It could be, for example, that there’s a five-year or ten-year limitation period applying to recovery of wrongly-paid state grants, or no limitation period at all. It’s a fairly technical point that you’re probably going to need to check with a Danish lawyer if you want a definitive answer.

Regardless of how long the period is, if there’s a limitation period at all it runs first of all from the due date of the claim - i.e. the date on which you (allegedly) became obliged to repay the grant, which presumably is something like 30 days after they notified you that you were obliged to repay, and demanded repayment. But if they get a court judgement against you (or you, e.g. make a settlement with them to avoid a court judgment) or if you acknowledge the claim or make any payment on account of it, the limitation period starts all over again (and may be extended to up to 10 years).

If I’m right in thinking that they have taken the view that you weren’t a worker at the time you received the grant, there is another course of action open to you, which is to challenge that assessment by finding out why they have formed that view and showing them that they are wrong. Was there any engagement with you about this before they demanded money? (E.g. did they ask you for evidence of your worker status?) Did you respond to them, or ignore them? Did you comply with any requirements to notify them of your employment status, or of changes to your employment, that may have applied to you?

It’s likely that the collete/university at which you were studying has an office that deals with financial assistance, and/or an office dealing with foreign students. Might be worth your while contacting them, and showing them the paperwork you have. They can at least clarify you why the state is demanding this money, and help you decide if you have any basis for challenging it.

In the worst-case scenario it is, to be honest, unlikely that the Danish government will pursue you in Ireland for this money. As you’re already found out, there’s a large amount owing to the Danish government from foreign students who studied in Denmark and then left the country, and very little of it is successfully recovered. Chasing these debts and claims individually is just not practicable; it’s throwing good money after bad. So what the Danish government may do is get a judgment against you, register it (in Denmark) and then wait and see if circumstances change to make collection abroad possible before the judgment becomes statute-barred (which will be 10 years after the judgment is registered, I think). That would happen if (a) you returned to Denmark and they became aware of it and joined up the dots — and you don’t suggest you have any intention of going back to Denmark — or (b) some EU-wide co-operative arrangement is put in place for recognising and enforcing student grant/loan claims of this kind, which frankly doesn’t seem a very live prospect at the monent.