Connacht Team Talk Thread VI - Some like it TOH

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123946126#Comment_123946126

Carbery started 73% of his available games for Munster. Only one start was not at 10.

If that's NOT no 1 starting out half for Munster then they must have had an empty shirt there.

Carberys issue was he was made of glass, and always returning from injury.

FtD v2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123946126#Comment_123946126

He was clearly the #1 starting out half for Munster for years; with only injury stopping that, until Jack Crowley came along.

He wasn't #1 at Leinster because Ireland's greatest ever player held that position.

He was quite clearly the #2 choice for Ireland for years - he racked up 38 caps. From his breakthrough season he played in every 6 Nations game in the 2017/18 season (when we won a Grand Slam), was in the 23 for each of our November games that year (starting two games), and was in for the start of the next year's Six Nations before getting injured.

Despite carrying an injury into the 2019 RWC he was clearly the #2 out half, and was on the bench for the big games (including the QF v NZ). He was still there in the 21/22 season where he played in every 6 Nations game (starting two games).

You're completely wrong in this take.

sydthebeat

Apologies to our connacht brethren for this train of discussion

CowboyTed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123945866#Comment_123945866

I would agree with you.. From an Irish perspective he would be a target…

The problem is Ben Healey… He was playing well enough and was persona non graita… That is the problem…

Naughton is a good up and coming outhalf but he is very raw still.. He is still getting his 1000 mins, I was screaming end of last season to play him at every opportunity like Ulster did with Jack Murphy.. O'Gara said his first 10 games for Ireland was a blur trying to get up to the pace of the game, the same is coming from Underage International to Professional.

I am comparing Jack to Sean a lot because there was nothing between them at underage level (Ireland U20s)… Jack got more game time but his father was the coach, but was totally unfair… Jack got 585 min, Sean got 224 min that U20 International season.

Following season(24/25) Jack get 894min in Ulster with Dad as coach, Sean get 21 min while we had one of the worst kicking ratios in the league…

Ulster invested in Jack and now with over 1000 Min up they have a home grown Out Half. This saves huge money on salaries, out halves are expensive and you get a few years before the big money is talked about… IRFU is also very favourable to have a young out half coming thru… Remember when we had all our eggs in the Paddy Jackson basket..

So we squandered the end of last season blooding in young players when our season was over..

This was the team we played against Edinburgh and Zebra in our two last games. We were effectively gone.. Nothing to play for, maybe a mathematical contortionist saw us going in… So lets look at the teams:

So we got JJ at outhalf… Seriously, a guy who was leaving..

Full back, Santi, another who was leaving… Sean or Harry could have had time there…

Is Oisin McCormack so bad that you couldn't even put him on instead of the player you were releasing..

Why play Bundee? Cathal or John Devine was better option… Cathal and Hugh were trying to make the Irish Squad at the time…

Honestly looking at it again still makes me frustrated and Stu and Connacht are the ones playing for it still

aloooof

The talk at the time was that Ulster had been floated to Carbery and he was the one that suggested Munster, which was facilitated.

He was very good in his first 6 months with Munster (and iirc, played more game time at 10 before Christmas that season than in his previous 2 combined for Leinster) and all appeared to be going well.

But he was injured for more-or-less the entirety of the next 2 years, with scant minutes during that period. And when he came back, he never looked quite the same player.

Tbh I disagree with the notion that was never the no1 starting out-half at any of the provinces or even the 2nd choice for Ireland. He was given ample opportunity as 1st choice for Munster and 2nd choice for Ireland. He just wasn't quite good enough on his return from injury.

FtD v2

The notion that Jack Murphy was only selected ahead of Sean Naughton at U20 level because his Dad was the coach, or that he has only gotten so many starts and minutes for Ulster subsequently is because his Dad is the coach is ridiculously unfair to both the player and the coach, and utterly lacking any semblance of sense.

What about the Leinster U-19s coach (Andy Wood) who left Sean Naughton on the bench for an interpro series, or the Ireland U19s coaches who selected Jack Murphy ahead of Naughton (Mark Butler - Munster, Andrew Browne - Connacht and Johnny Graham - Ulster)? Was it bias in those selections too?

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123946126#Comment_123946126

The reality was that he never became the no1 starting out-half at any of the provinces or even the 2nd choice for Ireland. 

Joey Carbery?! He became both.

FtD v2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123946184#Comment_123946184

No - it's in the Independent article I linked earlier here, where it's quoting Joe Schmidt. The IRFU approached Leinster wanting Leinster to move one of Ross Byrne or Joey Carbery to Ulster (who were looking for an overseas out half).

He says while that was happening, Munster approached Joey, and he had a preference for that approach.

It has been heavily implied numerous times that Schmidt was basically leaning on Carbery and telling him he needed to move.

CowboyTed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123946191#Comment_123946191

I am not saying that Jack Murphy was selected ahed of Sean for that reason… But I am saying they were very evenly matched, when a coach is talking to two players and one is a guy he has coached and lived with for the previous 20 years, they are going to have better communication… Communication between the Coach and Out half is vital in rugby.

I was making out that Jack and Sean have very close levels of ability at U20 level… I am not slighing Jack Murphy's ability, I think Morgan is quite average and Jack took the opportunity which was presented to him.. Did Richie plough minutes into a young player, I am saying we should have done the same thing…

Ulster have now Jack playing for them very well and we have Sean playing <50 min at out half.

AccidentallyOnside

Think Carbury is a fine player, but an OH in their prime coming from a top 14 club is going to be looking for serious wedge that we just don't have, and even if we do would be much better spent on a loose head, hooker or second row. We lack the ballast to compete with even mid table teams in the physical stakes, get some go forward in the tight and you'll suddenly see that our 10 options aren't so bad when they're not constantly taking the ball going backwards.

Mr Hinx

Maybe I’m a bit funny but Carbery didn’t consider Connacht an option ever previously. I know the logic and a more prime Carty, much more attractive Munster, etc but still, he didn’t. So why beg him to come now?

I’d much prefer players who want to genuinely come. The whole signing of JJ Hanrahan and then his running back home as fast as he could pisses me off. We need to stop signings like this I feel. Just a personal opinion. And yes it’s not always the player. Look at Tom Farrell. Connacht have been terrible at times in roster management and retention. All is fair in love and war eh.

Id like to see Naughton back up Ioane when Gilbert arrives and use Jack as a break glass in emergency. See how he goes. And West can do same with Gilbert perhaps.

Mr Hinx

I also think Lancaster is seeing who will sink and who can swim and will have his lists at season end and he will be going to the other provinces to target for his needs and I would be pretty sure the IRFU have told him they will be pushing where they can for transfers. So I expect a big turnover.

lavrenti

What's Carbery's kicking average been?

b.gud

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123947081#Comment_123947081

I've been wondering that myself and have found it hard to find stats. The only ones I can find are for last season in the top 14 where he was 81%

Gaztric

With all of our kicking issues costing games over the years, I am surprised we haven't employed a kicking coach or asked Eric to add it to his roles. Gareth Steenson did a good job helping Dannah O' Brien's kicking game during the World Cup, could he be employed as a coach? Was unsure of his future with Sexton becoming the 10s coach.

ShineyShiney

My money's on Naughton to be our starting 10 by the seasons end and that we sign another young 10 as cover and invest in 2 and 1.

CowboyTed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123946393#Comment_123946393

Lancaster is definately looking at youth…

Josh(30) aside the oldest player in the back line was 25 Ralston.. Next Cathal and Ben are 24, West 22, Tracy and Hugh are 21…

The bench had Devine 23 and Naughton 21 (Still in Academy).

That is incredibly young back line team…

You can see the pack he is staring… Duggan 27 (youngish for a prop), Illo 24… Darragh Murray 24. Jansen 26.

We started against Munster with 8 players 24 years old or younger on the pitch.. 3 on the bench… 1 over 30…

Last match last year (Zebra) we had only 2 players 24 or younger on the pitch… Treacy and Murphy. 7 players were over 30…

CowboyTed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123947340#Comment_123947340

I agree with you, we should leverage the IRFU kicking coaches.

Naughton sent up for a few day trips, coach comes down… Video analysis can be great too…

CowboyTed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123947440#Comment_123947440

Totally agree with you… That was my frustration last season, it normally takes a 10 about 1000 mins to get up to the speed of the game and learn how to manage that speed…

We basically blew those mins on a complete wasted effort last year… Crowley was pretty poor for his first 1000, only beat the dragons, you could see had potential but there were games that overwhelmed him…

Being the first choice 10 at the weekend means you get all of the coaches around you wanting you to organised attacks, defences and you also have the responsibility of kicking… This can be an awful lot to learn and it takes time for you to come out of that and lead…

realhorrorshow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123947720#Comment_123947720

Our academy players have already gotten more than 50% of the minutes played last season, and more than the entire 23-24 season. There are also lots of young pros featuring, as you point out. Sam Illo has played more than half of his total minutes from last season in the first four games also.

seanin4711

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123947720#Comment_123947720

he mustn't have any cash to attract talent no option to play the cards he has.

time to re-baseline with where the big salary earners are and go from there- it aint personal its just business

CowboyTed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123947847#Comment_123947847

This is why I don't think it is going to work…

Ioane is on a two year contract. His salary would have to off set the incoming of Carberry. I would very much doubt that Jack Carty's is that high anymore compared to his three year deal that ended last year..

It would take the IRFU to dip into its pocket to get Carberry… Maybe if Ioane moved to Ulster to support Jack Murphy, it might be possible but unlikely…

Ioane is a fine outhalf except when kicking from hand or the tee… Personally I think it is in his style of kicking, he kicks with his weight back. In windy areas you need your weight more forward, keeping the ball low (driving the ball). Eric Elwood was very good at this in his career and second nature to GAA players (the O'Neills is one of the most unforgiving balls).. I would suggest a drill, against the wind try and kick an O'Neill's ball from the ground (start at the 22, over the bar), same from the hand (down the line and even over the bar). O'Neills is not forgiving and you will find players in Connacht who could explain it (Jack Carty almost surely could, played county minor)

eagle eye

You don't need an O'Neills ball. As you said you have to be over the ball when kicking into the wind.

That's all the practice thats needed.

And he should already know that. It's about remembering it on the field.

FACECUTTR

Jack Aungier is with the Barbarians today. Not sure of the team but he joined up this week.

siltirocker

A few things I feel like mentioning regarding comments about our kicking:

Some commented about Connacht having a low kicking percentage, 75% or less, for a decade. This isn't true. Our low kicking percentage is only this season and the last 2 seasons. (Which isn't acceptable - but I'm just highlighting it's not been a decade). Carty has been in the mid/high 70s the previous two seasons, but was in the 80s percentile in 2021, 2022, and 2023. He had a poor 2020, but I think in 2019 and 2018 it was also high. Before that Craig Ronaldson had a high percentile.

People have just decided Sam Gilbert is going to be Connacht first choice kicker. And I'd love to know why people are so confident saying that. He had a wild 90-95% season about 4 years ago from the boot, but since then his kicking stats are poor. This season he was 75 or so, last season he was 67%. Ahead of Ioane, but much lower than Forde, Carty, Hanrahan, etc.

I feel a 7-8% buffer should be given to Connacht players due to having to deal with that College Road horizontal wind.

Sean Naughton has been in the high 80s, low 90s with his kicking over the past 3 season for Corinthians and was sending them over the bar in high winds from the halfway at points over his time in Cloonacaneen. I think he should be backed.

ShineyShiney

Perhaps we have all just assumed that because we had two glaring issues, a 15 and a kicker that one signing to solve both issues would be the way to go. Any facts contrary to that can be dismissed. Therefore we have blindly decided that Gilbert is a kind of morphing of Serge Blanco and Leigh Halfpenny into one supreme rugby deity and we will hear no more about it.

Hopefully he's a good signing.

eagle eye

There's no use getting excited about it either way until we see what Gilbert can do here.