Dilemma about my pay

MuchZeus

I am currently working as a porter in a HSE-run hospital in Dublin, earning just under €31k.

I am keen on joining the Civil Service. I am expecting to be offered a Temporary Clerical Officer role in January or February, at the rate the panel is moving. I am on a couple of Administrative Officer panels too, but too far down on those panels to realistically be called for interview anytime soon.

I had a look at the Clerical Officer pay scale on the FORSA website, and I’m worried about having to take a severe pay cut. €24,586 is the first point on the CO scale.

With how the world is at the minute, taking a substantial cut in my pay is not exactly the wisest thing to be doing.

Now, I know that TCO contracts are generally at least 8 weeks, while some can be longer. But I really want to get my foot in the door in the CS and get some administrative experience.

Because I’m already a public servant, would there be any way I could ask to be moved up a few points on the scale so that my hourly pay rate could be matched as close as possible? Are they able to do that? Obviously I’d ask this when I get an offer.

For context, I am a 24 year old graduate. Have a degree in business, still unsure of what to do in life, but didn’t leave my old college job because of covid and economic uncertainty.

Any and all advice welcome.

doc22

No, and I wouldn't leave a permanent job for an 8 week temp contract

I'm with Doc22. 8 week contract no good.

Your young and well qualified, hold where you are for a while and something else will come along.

twowheelsonly

Are you currently paid by a Government agency / are you considered a public servant ?
If so then generally speaking you'll start on the same level that you're currently at. I'd check it out with them first though to be sure.

BTW, chances are that with allowances etc (assuming that there are some allowances available) that 24.5k will be a little bit higher. IMO, as much as I know you want to get your foot in the door, it seems to be a bit dodgy taking an 8 week post .

At 24 with a business degree I'd not be staying in a porter roll as it's permanent. I'd take the TCO gig if that's the role you'd want. You could stay as a porter forever if you let the pay and benefits be the deciding factors.

For perspective I'm self employed so permanent jobs never appealed to me.... Packed in a permanent pharmaceutical role at 25 years old.

MuchZeus

doc22 wrote: »

No, and I wouldn't leave a permanent job for an 8 week temp contract

should mention that i’m not permanent at the minute, i’m technically on a casual relief contract (fancy for zero-hours) - but i’m working full time for the forseeable

doc22

twowheelsonly wrote: »

Are you currently paid by a Government agency / are you considered a public servant ?
If so then generally speaking you'll start on the same level that you're currently at. I'd check it out with them first though to be sure.

BTW, chances are that with allowances etc (assuming that there are some allowances available) that 24.5k will be a little bit higher. IMO, as much as I know you want to get your foot in the door, it seems to be a bit dodgy taking an 8 week post .

A porter is in no way analogous to a CO so starting at same pay level isn't an option..

MuchZeus

twowheelsonly wrote: »

Are you currently paid by a Government agency / are you considered a public servant ?
If so then generally speaking you'll start on the same level that you're currently at. I'd check it out with them first though to be sure.

BTW, chances are that with allowances etc (assuming that there are some allowances available) that 24.5k will be a little bit higher. IMO, as much as I know you want to get your foot in the door, it seems to be a bit dodgy taking an 8 week post .

I suppose I would be, would the HSE be considered a government agency?

A lot depends on the length of the contract too, like, I’d much rather take a 6-month one rather than 8 weeks.

Cheers

MuchZeus

MuchZeus wrote: »

should mention that i’m not permanent at the minute, i’m technically on a casual relief contract (fancy for zero-hours) - but i’m working full time for the forseeable

Leave it without a second thought if you fancy the CO gig.... Don't worry about the pay... You can no doubt manage away on the CO money.

twowheelsonly

MuchZeus wrote: »

should mention that i’m not permanent at the minute, i’m technically on a casual relief contract (fancy for zero-hours) - but i’m working full time for the forseeable

doc22 wrote: »

A porter is in no way analogous to a CO so starting at same pay level isn't an option..

That entirely depends on his HSE contract and not on the nature of his job.
Given what he's since stated above though that would seem to be off the table.

doc22

Augeo wrote: »

At 24 with a business degree I'd not be staying in a porter roll as it's permanent. I'd take the TCO gig if that's the role you'd want. You could stay as a porter forever if you let the pay and benefits be the deciding factors.

For perspective I'm self employed so permanent jobs never appealed to me.... Packed in a permanent pharmaceutical role at 25 years old.

Realistically for the 8 weeks or so you'll be scanning or photocopying and be no closer to a permanent CO job(that you want).If anything the porter has more responsibility delivering patients and files to wards hence the higher pay. But is working in a Revenue/Passport/Peoplepoint call centre or dole office really what the OP wants?

doc22

twowheelsonly wrote: »

That entirely depends on his HSE contract and not on the nature of his job.
Given what he's since stated above though that would seem to be off the table.

Could you explain that? A porter would have a CO contract

twowheelsonly

doc22 wrote: »

Could you explain that? A porter would have a CO contract

No, but if he had a Public / Civil Service contract you generally do not lose money or your place on the pay scale by transferring between departments or jobs.
The fact that he doesn't have a permanent contract though would, IMO, preclude that. He's still 'coming in from the outside' rather than 'moving sideways'.

maryk123

One difference with hse and cs I have noticed is When the cs say 8 weeks that’s all it usually is. I have seen people replaced after 6 weeks and new people trained in. It’s just the way the cs works. Whereas the hse you go in for 6 weeks and you never leave. Experience will be good for the cv and once your in the door there are far more opportunities In the cs than the hse.

doc22

doc22 wrote: »

Realistically for the 8 weeks or so you'll be scanning or photocopying and be no closer to a permanent CO job(that you want).If anything the porter has more responsibility delivering patients and files to wards hence the higher pay. But is working in a Revenue/Passport/Peoplepoint call centre or dole office really what the OP wants?

He says he really wants to get his foot in the door.... I'd see it as a sh1t gig on a permanent basis also but I'm not the one applying for it or wanting it.

Anyone able bodied and anyway diligent can do either gigs but the chap seems keen on the CO gig and is simply querying the pay side of things.

8 weeks CO experience is of some value experience wise as pointed out.

Vestiapx

Unless I am very missinformed a TCO is not a foot in the door, you do the contract and once it's finished you are done until the next TCO panel is formed.
Furthermore there is no overlap between a permanent CO panel and a TCO panel.

Nekarsulm

No matter what pay scale you are on now, I don't think that your "take home" pay as a TCO will be any more than about €380.
Know two people who came to our office as TCO's, and they would have been great to keep on, but it didn't happen.
Would you not be better to keep the Porters job and do as many CO or EO exams as possible?

doc22

twowheelsonly wrote: »

No, but if he had a Public / Civil Service contract you generally do not lose money or your place on the pay scale by transferring between departments or jobs.
The fact that he doesn't have a permanent contract though would, IMO, preclude that. He's still 'coming in from the outside' rather than 'moving sideways'.

That depends on departments, strictly it's only permanent analogous grades that should get that treatment. If the receiving HR don't play ball there's nothing you can do.

Nigel Fairservice

I'm not sure anyone here could advise on incremental credit. Maybe you'd get some if you had some CO experience in the HSE but with portering, who knows.

I wouldn't call a TCO position a foot in the door of the civil service either. Once your contract is up you're out the door. What's your plan for when the contract is over? Have you anything else lined up for after that? I don't think taking a short temporary contract in the civil service will necessarily leave you better off than you are now. Jobs are hard to come by these days so you would have to think hard about leaving your current semi regular job for something temporary.

Interviews for the civil service are competency based. You don't need experience of the civil service to answer competency based questions. The experiences drawn on to answer competency based questions can be taken from any part of your life.

Victor

twowheelsonly wrote: »

Are you currently paid by a Government agency / are you considered a public servant ? If so then generally speaking you'll start on the same level that you're currently at. I'd check it out with them first though to be sure.

With many recent public sector jobs, everyone is starting at the bottom of the scale.

John Hutton

As a TCO you will be doing boring sh!te work that no one is arsed to do or is too valuable to waste their time on. Not quite licking stamps but not far off. I last used TCOs to help with archiving. It will not give you any discernable leg up on the next CO competition moreso than your current job would, in fact your current job will be a decided advantage as any interview panel will be far more interested in hearing some STAR stories about working in a hospital during covid than about sorting through ancient dusty files and putting them into new boxes. Less money and it's only 8 weeks? Stay were you are and take note of some examples for interviews.

My understanding would be that while the porter salary is very good, there wouldn't be a huge amount of room for progression? Add to that, you've said you'd prefer to be somewhere else (civil service). So you're going to be changing career at some stage, and most of the time that's going to involve a pay cut.

I can't comment directly on your query re: public service pay negotiation. But don't worry about taking a pay cut to get into the career that you want. You're 24! Assuming you're a relatively typical 24 year old (e.g. you don't have mortgage arrears or anything to worry about) - this is the perfect time to take a cut. It's only going to become tougher to move as time goes on.

BUT: It doesn't sound like this position is the career change you're hoping for. It sounds as though, if anything, this temporary role might be an added distraction to your plans.

I think it might be best to put aside your concerns over pay, and instead focus on your strategy. Consider how the temporary role affects your end-goal of a permanent position. E.g. does temp experience make your applications for a permanent position more attractive? or will taking the temp job become a drain on your time and mental energy, making it harder to work on getting a permanent position? You could end up unemployed in a couple of months and end up having to apply for other temporary work, which will again take up a lot of time and energy.

Sinus pain

My advice would be to stay where you are for now and practice with the exams to get a permanent role.
I worked for 20 years in the private sector (retail) and went from being a CO to an EO to a HEO in two years. After I took redundancy from my retail job I worked in the public sector for 6 months (temporary position) and they did allow me carry my service for pay reasons only ( ie I got my first increment in the civil service after 6 mths but they didn’t allow me the 6mths service when applying for an interdepartmental competition) but I had to fight for it.
I’d stay where you are for now - practice away at the exams and work in examples for the interviews. You don’t need to experience in the civil service to get a job in the civil service - you just need to be able to answer the competencies

Nekarsulm

Everything Sinus and True or False says is correct.
Get through the on-line exams, and get to interview.
Your experiences as a Porter, dealing with people in often stressful situations etc is exactly the kind of thing that interests interview boards.

boombang

Do not stay in the porter role. You are at the age where you have the most flexibility for taking risks and trying things out. If you stay your older self will look back and regret not trying different things. Also, at your age, I would be exploring the diverse range of opportunities provided by the private sector rather than necessarily sticking to the public sector. The public sector will be there for you to apply to in a few years. Use your youth to focus on stretching yourself and build experience. Do not worry about pay in the short term. Experience earned now will pay back well in the future.