Selling tips

Melted

Need some advice on selling on DD.

Obviously meeting up somewhere busy, with a camera (Petrol station?), apart from this when it comes to the person asking for a spin off her should we agree on a price and then ask for the cash in my hand before they head off on a test ride?

Aslo whats the story with insurance if they are taking it out?

Am I being to paranoid? What do you guys do?

goblin59

As far as I know, the buyer should have their own insurance for the bike, I've fully comp so that allows me to ride someone else's bike with permission.

Not a chance I'd let someone on the bike without the cash in my hand though either and be sure to point out if they drop it or damage it while riding they have bought it

honda boi

I've always wondered how to be 100% legal when test driving a vehicle.
Any insurance company I've dealt with ,there driving other vehicles policy says the other vehicle needs it's own insurance policy , but people selling most likely won't have any insurance on it so how are test drives "meant " to work?

Mjolnir

honda boi wrote: »

I've always wondered how to be 100% legal when test driving a vehicle.
Any insurance company I've dealt with ,there driving other vehicles policy says the other vehicle needs it's own insurance policy , but people selling most likely won't have any insurance on it so how are test drives "meant " to work?

Most people selling a bike will be insured, they are the easiest stolen vechicle. Most bike owners will be riding their bike until its sold too. You're still liable as the owner.

Op meet in a nice open public place in daylight, somewhere you know and are comfortable, cash in hand for a test ride. If not they can watch you ride it. Make sure they have insurance. If you're bringing people with you make sure to tell them not just turn up with your mates same goes for them. Have the bike clean and presentable with good pics on your ad. Other than that just be prepared for timewasters and half price merchants. Of course the golden rule you drop it, its yours.

CJhaughey

Try and meet where there is a postbox handy.
I have a Pre-addressed and stamped envelope with me, if they buy the bike then you put their name and address on the Logbook and sign it and post it in front of them
It saves any fines for speeding or anything else coming back to you, they see the logbook being posted so they know the change of ownership is underway.

I would be inclined to bring a pen to check for forged notes as well, you can't be too careful these days.

Del2005

CJhaughey wrote: »

Try and meet where there is a postbox handy.
I have a Pre-addressed and stamped envelope with me, if they buy the bike then you put their name and address on the Logbook and sign it and post it in front of them
It saves any fines for speeding or anything else coming back to you, they see the logbook being posted so they know the change of ownership is underway.

I would be inclined to bring a pen to check for forged notes as well, you can't be too careful these days.

I have no problem with meeting someone in a neutral place for a look at a bike. But you never buy a warm vehicle and if I'm handing over money it's at the registered address on the VLC , if not indoors I'll have a sudden urge to use the toilet.

Melted

Del2005 wrote: »

I have no problem with meeting someone in a neutral place for a look at a bike. But you never buy a warm vehicle and if I'm handing over money it's at the registered address on the VLC , if not indoors I'll have a sudden urge to use the toilet.

You want to go into peoples houses? That's odd I definitely wont be inviting people around to my place so if that's the case!

Del2005

Melted wrote: »

You want to go into peoples houses? That's odd I definitely wont be inviting people around to my place so if that's the case!

There are risks on both sides of the sale.

If I'm giving someone my hard earned money I want to know that the person selling the vehicle is its owner. Plenty of people have bought vehicles outside houses only to find out later that it wasn't the owner who sold it. The buyer will have your address from the VLC anyway.

Melted

Del2005 wrote: »

There are risks on both sides of the sale.

If I'm giving someone my hard earned money I want to know that the person selling the vehicle is its owner. Plenty of people have bought vehicles outside houses only to find out later that it wasn't the owner who sold it. The buyer will have your address from the VLC anyway.

But a person who is not the owner wont have a VLC?

Vikings

Melted wrote: »

Need some advice on selling on DD.

Obviously meeting up somewhere busy, with a camera (Petrol station?), apart from this when it comes to the person asking for a spin off her should we agree on a price and then ask for the cash in my hand before they head off on a test ride?

Aslo whats the story with insurance if they are taking it out?

Am I being to paranoid? What do you guys do?

What sort of bike is it? What sort of money?

Sold my blackbird a few months ago without a test drive, but was happy to buy it without one. (It was in daily use and had a full history)

You can insist on money in your hand before a test drive is given and similarly you can insist on proof of insurance. After all, if test pilot gets stopped and had no insurance the bike gets seized leaving you on the hook for release fees and also liable to prosecution for allowing it to be driven on the road knowing there was no insurance. Ignorance would not be a defence to that. So all the risk is on your side should you let someone out on the bike without covering yourself.

If somebody is really interested in your bike the above is reasonable - the cash in hand but might be a bit much if you're talking above a few thousand though.

That said, I've never had an issue selling a car or bike by inviting the buyer to my house. And I've sold a few.

Melted

Vikings wrote: »

What sort of bike is it? What sort of money?

Sold my blackbird a few months ago without a test drive, but was happy to buy it without one. (It was in daily use and had a full history)

You can insist on money in your hand before a test drive is given and similarly you can insist on proof of insurance. After all, if test pilot gets stopped and had no insurance the bike gets seized leaving you on the hook for release fees and also liable to prosecution for allowing it to be driven on the road knowing there was no insurance. Ignorance would not be a defence to that. So all the risk is on your side should you let someone out on the bike without covering yourself.

If somebody is really interested in your bike the above is reasonable - the cash in hand but might be a bit much if you're talking above a few thousand though.

That said, I've never had an issue selling a car or bike by inviting the buyer to my house. And I've sold a few.

It less than 2k, theres just alot of wasters on DD dont want to be inviting half the county to my house only for them to ask for half price or something

Cheers for the response lads ye have given me alot to think about hah

Del2005

Melted wrote: »

But a person who is not the owner wont have a VLC?

They could have stolen it from the owner along with the vehicle or it could be fake. Do you know all the security features of the VLC?

I've heard both sides of the story. Seller turns up and a has the vehicle and VLC taken from them. Buyer turns up and told you've come to buy a vehicle so give us the cash.

Last bike I sold was a gsxr for like 4k. Showed him the bike in my drive and made him give me the cash before he tested it, he defo didn't have insurance but that's not my problem.

When he gave me the money before he test drove it we went into the sitting room and counted it on the table.

Before sale was complete we went up and I lodged it in an ATM to my account to make sure the notes were all legit and we also posted and dated the reg cert for the prior day and I posted it in front of him.

I think I got a picture of his licence aswell, if someone is honest they won't care doing the above, he even said it made him feel more comfortable about it.

Vikings

Lilly Numerous Checkers wrote: »

Last bike I sold was a gsxr for like 4k. Showed him the bike in my drive and made him give me the cash before he tested it, he defo didn't have insurance but that's not my problem.

Only because nothing happened. To be clear, you can be prosecuted as the owner for letting a car/bike you own be driven without insurance.

The bike can be seized from the person riding the bike and you as the owner will have to go through the rigamarole of getting it back from the Garda station.

But what I'd be more concerned about is the test pilot getting into an accident. Sure, you have the cash on the table to cover your loss if he bins it, but you are going to have months if not years of hardship with insurance companies if there's another party involved. Insurance companies and judges really don't tolerate ignorance as a defence in cases like this.

MojoMaker

You were lucky Goose, as it is most definitely "your problem" by allowing a 3rd party test spin.

Del2005

Lilly Numerous Checkers wrote: »

Last bike I sold was a gsxr for like 4k. Showed him the bike in my drive and made him give me the cash before he tested it, he defo didn't have insurance but that's not my problem.

When he gave me the money before he test drove it we went into the sitting room and counted it on the table.

Before sale was complete we went up and I lodged it in an ATM to my account to make sure the notes were all legit and we also posted and dated the reg cert for the prior day and I posted it in front of him.

I think I got a picture of his licence aswell, if someone is honest they won't care doing the above, he even said it made him feel more comfortable about it.

You should really have checked the notes were legit before the test ride, if they gave you fake money they weren't coming back to get it.

Which bank verifies money as its lodged in an ATM? I thought that you lodged the money in an envelope and they checked it later.

Mjolnir

You 100% are liable to prosecution for allowing an uninsured rider to ride your bike as the registered owner.
Not only for allowing him to ride it, you may also be found liable in civil law for damages caused.

100% not worth the headache if something happened.

Skill Magill

Mjolnir wrote: »

You 100% are liable to prosecution for allowing an uninsured rider to ride your bike as the registered owner.
Not only for allowing him to ride it, you may also be found liable in civil law for damages caused.

100% not worth the headache if something happened.

Fair enough, so the only way is to ask him for proof of insurance and if he doesn't have it, no riding it until you have the new owner signed off on the logbook and dropped in the post box?

Mjolnir

Skill Magill wrote: »

Fair enough, so the only way is to ask him for proof of insurance and if he doesn't have it, no riding it until you have the new owner signed off on the logbook and dropped in the post box?

Pretty much, even if the documents are fake the fact you did the checks would mitigate you criminally and go a long way in civil liability.

If they can't prove they are insured let them watch you ride it.

As a poster mentioned above ignorance of the law is not a defence.

CJhaughey

The prospective buyer should really bring their insurance cert with them, I know my policy covers me to ride other bikes not belonging to me and I would guess some other companies may do the same.
Some people may not be aware of this or maybe they don't have it, maybe its just the old farts that get that on their policy

Del2005

Skill Magill wrote: »

Fair enough, so the only way is to ask him for proof of insurance and if he doesn't have it, no riding it until you have the new owner signed off on the logbook and dropped in the post box?

And after they buy it they won't be insured for the ride home, unless they transfer their insurance, even though they would have been insured for a test ride. But it's not your problem once you've the VLC signed and a basic receipt done up.

Del2005

Del2005 wrote: »

You should really have checked the notes were legit before the test ride, if they gave you fake money they weren't coming back to get it.

Which bank verifies money as its lodged in an ATM? I thought that you lodged the money in an envelope and they checked it later.

I did check they were legit, well as much as you can without an ultraviolet light.

No, you lodge the cash in machine's without an envelope and it counts it and verifies it as you lodge it. Your balance updates immediately in most cases.

This was bank of Ireland but I'm sure others are the same.

Regarding the insurance thing I didn't really think about it too much at the time, although how the hell you verify if someone is insured to drive a bike is beyond me. You couldn't trust any documents they show you

Also in my case the bike wasn't insured, I had removed it from my policy so if he did crash it I don't know what would happen.

honda boi

CJhaughey wrote: »

The prospective buyer should really bring their insurance cert with them, I know my policy covers me to ride other bikes not belonging to me and I would guess some other companies may do the same.
Some people may not be aware of this or maybe they don't have it, maybe its just the old farts that get that on their policy

What company you with? Any insurance company I've been with has stated the other bike needs insurance. Which I'd assume most bikes been sold wouldn't have insurance

Mjolnir

honda boi wrote: »

What company you with? Any insurance company I've been with has stated the other bike needs insurance. Which I'd assume most bikes been sold wouldn't have insurance

Pretty sure most do require the bike to be insured, must ask next renewal time actually.
Who doesn't keep their bike insured it costs basically nothing and they are stupidly easy to rob.

Del2005

honda boi wrote: »

What company you with? Any insurance company I've been with has stated the other bike needs insurance. Which I'd assume most bikes been sold wouldn't have insurance

I've just looked at my Carole Nash policy, cover provide by AXA, and I can't see anything about the other bike needing to be insured.

Japcati2020

For anyone here posting a bike on DD.......

Dont post pics of the bike manky dirty.
Dont post pics of the bike after its washed and still wet.
Post clean and dry daylight pics of front,back n sides.
And put up a proper price and current mileage.

None of this price or mileage upon request bolloxoligy

honda boi

Del2005 wrote: »

I've just looked at my Carole Nash policy, cover provide by AXA, and I can't see anything about the other bike needing to be insured.

Ye Im with Carole Nash and mine said nothing about the other bike needing insurance.
I rang them to make sure and they said to me the other bike needs to have insurance .
Rang twice so I could speak to someone else the second time to see if the first person was wrong.

Mjolnir

honda boi wrote: »

Ye Im with Carole Nash and mine said nothing about the other bike needing insurance.
I rang them to make sure and they said to me the other bike needs to have insurance .
Rang twice so I could speak to someone else the second time to see if the first person was wrong.

At least you had the cop on to ask, a lot of people don't see it and assume, then some find out the hard way.

rock22

Lilly Numerous Checkers wrote: »

..

Regarding the insurance thing I didn't really think about it too much at the time, ...
Also in my case the bike wasn't insured, I had removed it from my policy so if he did crash it I don't know what would happen.

If he did crash it you could probably say goodbye to your bike. If he injured or killed a third party you might be saying goodbye to your house as well

LollipopJimmy

honda boi wrote: »

Ye Im with Carole Nash and mine said nothing about the other bike needing insurance.
I rang them to make sure and they said to me the other bike needs to have insurance .
Rang twice so I could speak to someone else the second time to see if the first person was wrong.

If its not on the policy document then the other bike doesn't need to be insured. A friend went to court over this and the Guard was roasted by the judge.

When I bought my last bike I knew I was going to buy it unless it had major issues so I swapped my insurance onto it for the test ride, being on a learner permit my policy doesn't allow for riding other bikes. I also handed over cash but brought a mate with me who stayed with the seller.

One thing mentioned above though, taking a pic of a licence, I would absolutely not allow anybody take a pic of my licence.

Chiorino

honda boi wrote: »

Ye Im with Carole Nash and mine said nothing about the other bike needing insurance.
I rang them to make sure and they said to me the other bike needs to have insurance .
Rang twice so I could speak to someone else the second time to see if the first person was wrong.

Unless you get this from them in writing, anything you are told over the phone by a cs agent means absolutely nothing. The policy document is the last word as far as things like this are concerned.

myclist

Chiorino wrote: »

Unless you get this from them in writing, anything you are told over the phone by a cs agent means absolutely nothing. The policy document is the last word as far as things like this are concerned.

I am inclined to agree with you there. Bikes in themselves cant have insurance,Itll be the owner that has insurance. You have no absolute way of knowing if insurance is in place or not, he may still have the cert even though the policy is cancelled, may have fake documents, or void insurance because of something undeclared.

Mjolnir

myclist wrote: »

I am inclined to agree with you there. Bikes in themselves cant have insurance,Itll be the owner that has insurance. You have no absolute way of knowing if insurance is in place or not, he may still have the cert even though the policy is cancelled, may have fake documents, or void insurance because of something undeclared.

Not true the owner insures that bike, my bike and my car are both insured with me being the policy holder.
The bike is the insured object, I am the policy holder, you're being pedantic and splitting hairs.

No a non sentient object can't go and insure itself but the owner insures their property, and as a result may have an extention granted by the company to cover another vechicle if they drive it.

The cancelled/void policy is a fair point but again it will help mitigate loss if a civil action occurs as you had done your due diligence.

Skill Magill

Do a cold start video and walk around when its ticking over, upload it to youtube and put the link into the add in donedeal,adverts etc
Did that for mine yesterday and sold it today, was sitting there for a few weeks before hand.

If I was a buyer thats what I'd be looking for in anyway

zemerin

For you to drive any other vehicle thats not yours and you have driving of other vehicles on your policy, the vehicle needs to be road worthy. AKA taxed and insured.

zubair

Japcati2020 wrote: »

For anyone here posting a bike on DD.......

Dont post pics of the bike manky dirty.
Dont post pics of the bike after its washed and still wet.
Post clean and dry daylight pics of front,back n sides.
And put up a proper price and current mileage.

None of this price or mileage upon request bolloxoligy

Or just post random pictures you have in your phone and you'll sell it in a week if it's the right price. XD

Del2005

zemerin wrote: »

For you to drive any other vehicle thats not yours and you have driving of other vehicles on your policy, the vehicle needs to be road worthy. AKA taxed and insured.

Road worthiness has nothing to do with tax or insurance, you can have a car not road worthy even though it has NCT/tax/insurance, and as I posted early my policy documents don't mention the other bike needing to be insured. I've never had any insurance policy mention the vehicle needing to be taxed.

My car policy will cover me 3rd party in any car and it doesn't need to have insurance , I have fully comp if the other car is insured and a few other requirements.

zubair

Del2005 wrote: »

Road worthiness has nothing to do with tax or insurance, you can have a car not road worthy even though it has NCT/tax/insurance, and as I posted early my policy documents don't mention the other bike needing to be insured. I've never had any insurance policy mention the vehicle needing to be taxed.

My car policy will cover me 3rd party in any car and it doesn't need to have insurance , I have fully comp if the other car is insured and a few other requirements.

You might want to recheck your policy because my CN AXA policy states I'm only insured on a bike that has a policy on it. It's actually on the first page. To be honest, I knew this was the case because it's standard for all policies, I just looked out of interest for the thread.

You sure about the car insurance, do you have a particular type of policy that night be different from the usual standard?

Del2005

zubair wrote: »

You might want to recheck your policy because my CN AXA policy states I'm only insured on a bike that has a policy on it. It's actually on the first page. To be honest, I knew this was the case because it's standard for all policies, I just looked out of interest for the thread.

You sure about the car insurance, do you have a particular type of policy that night be different from the usual standard?

I've checked my policy documents several times and no mention of the other bike needing insurance.

I've been with multiple insurers over the years and none have required the other car to be insured for 3rd party cover, you can get fully comp driving other cars from several companies.

honda boi

Has anyone been stopped by a gard or had an accident while driving another car/bike without an insurance policy on the car/bike recently? That would decide for definite if insurance is needed on other vehicle.

zubair

Del2005 wrote: »

I've checked my policy documents several times and no mention of the other bike needing insurance.

I've been with multiple insurers over the years and none have required the other car to be insured for 3rd party cover, you can get fully comp driving other cars from several companies.

I'm renewing both my bike and car policies this month and I'd love to have this level of DOC cover in my car policy, can you share the companies?

Here's the CN AXA policy on riding other bikes. Page 1 of your policy.

Del2005

zubair wrote: »

I'm renewing both my bike and car policies this month and I'd love to have this level of DOC cover in my car policy, can you share the companies?

Here's the CN AXA policy on riding other bikes. Page 1 of your policy.

Zurich and FBD, I've seen it on a few others but their quotes are usually too high so I don't remember.

That's not on any documentation I got off CN

honda boi

zubair wrote: »

I'm renewing both my bike and car policies this month and I'd love to have this level of DOC cover in my car policy, can you share the companies?

Here's the CN AXA policy on riding other bikes. Page 1 of your policy.

Just renewed my CN insurance yesterday.
With fbd and mine says the exact same as yours.

zubair

Del2005 wrote: »

Zurich and FBD, I've seen it on a few others but their quotes are usually too high so I don't remember.

That's not on any documentation I got off CN

So both of those companies provide fully comp DOC but the policies state the vehicles need to be insured under another policy.

You're probably not using any of these policies on uninsured vehicles but bear in mind that just because you didn't see this rule it doesn't mean it won't apply to you.

zubair

honda boi wrote: »

Just renewed my CN insurance yesterday.
With fbd and mine says the exact same as yours.

Mine went down by 100 bucks, haven't had a renewal quote on a policy go down in about a decade. Didn't even get any other quotes I was so impressed.

Vikings

Out of interest I went back through my policy docs. Broker principal and policy with AXA.

Can't find any exclusion either on AXA docs or principal docs about other vehicles requiring an insurance policy specifically.

This is one of the general exclusions in Principals terms:

l) Where at the time of the Insured Incident You were disqualified from driving, did not hold a licence to drive or the Vehicle did not have a
valid MOT certificate or Tax Disc or comply with any laws relating to its ownership or use

That said. There is a difference between having insurance that will not cover a claim because a particular term was not met and having no insurance which can be prosecuted.

zubair

Vikings wrote: »

Out of interest I went back through my policy docs. Broker principal and policy with AXA.

Can't find any exclusion either on AXA docs or principal docs about other vehicles requiring an insurance policy specifically.

This is one of the general exclusions in Principals terms:

l) Where at the time of the Insured Incident You were disqualified from driving, did not hold a licence to drive or the Vehicle did not have a
valid MOT certificate or Tax Disc or comply with any laws relating to its ownership or use

That said. There is a difference between having insurance that will not cover a claim because a particular term was not met and having no insurance which can be prosecuted.

Honestly, it's pretty much standard. Fairly sure you'd need a very specific policy. I was with principal 2 years ago and their documentation is brutal, so you couldn't find an exclusion, but can you find anything to say that you can even ride another bike.

Vikings

zubair wrote: »

Honestly, it's pretty much standard. Fairly sure you'd need a very specific policy. I was with principal 2 years ago and their documentation is brutal, so you couldn't find an exclusion, but can you find anything to say that you can even ride another bike.

Yes on the certificate itself.

"The policyholder may also ride with the permission of the owner a motor cycle not owned by the policyholder and not hired to him/her under a hire purchase or lease agreement."

I've read all the documents they sent & the only reference to driving other bikes is what I have quoted above.

Del2005

zubair wrote: »

So both of those companies provide fully comp DOC but the policies state the vehicles need to be insured under another policy.

You're probably not using any of these policies on uninsured vehicles but bear in mind that just because you didn't see this rule it doesn't mean it won't apply to you.

For fully comp on my car policy with FBD the other car needs to have a separate policy, <2.5l and <€50k. If that criteria isn't met I have 3rd party, there is no mention in the 3rd party section that the other car needs to be insured.

The policy documents you receive are what apply to your policy. If it's not in the policy documents or on the insurance cert then they can't add it in later. There is no mention anywhere on the documents I received from CN that the other bike needs to be insured, so I can ride uninsured bikes with 3rd party cover.

zubair

OK.

zemerin

Del2005 wrote: »

Road worthiness has nothing to do with tax or insurance, you can have a car not road worthy even though it has NCT/tax/insurance, and as I posted early my policy documents don't mention the other bike needing to be insured. I've never had any insurance policy mention the vehicle needing to be taxed.

My car policy will cover me 3rd party in any car and it doesn't need to have insurance , I have fully comp if the other car is insured and a few other requirements.

I used to work for one of the few insurance companies that does motorbikes (I won't say the name) and we were explicitly told this.

A guard might say otherwise about road worthiness. For you to drive ANY vehicle on a public road it needs to be taxed/insured. Not here to have an argument but to make sure incase anyone here decides to ride someone elses bike they need to be aware of this god forbid something happens.