Travelling to another county to pick up Dog

Tim Robbins

Hi,
Wondering on the various lock down stages if you have bought a dog from someone in another country are you allowed go to pick it up? Can you get an exemption? They are afterall a family member - but probably not to some people?

magicbastarder

You're currently allowed leave your county. That restriction ended on the 18th.

Buddy Bubs

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Hi,
Wondering on the various lock down stages if you have bought a dog from someone in another country are you allowed go to pick it up? Can you get an exemption? They are afterall a family member - but probably not to some people?

No, there's no exemptions for buying pets. Same as general restrictions whatever is in at the time. But you know, if you want to get a dog, go get the dog. I hope this isn't a Christmas present dog though.

Tim Robbins

Buddy Bubs wrote: »

No, there's no exemptions for buying pets. Same as general restrictions whatever is in at the time. But you know, if you want to get a dog, go get the dog. I hope this isn't a Christmas present dog though.

I don't want to get it before xmas purely on that principle.

Cherry Blossom

If you had ethical issues surrounding getting a dog for Christmas you wouldn’t get one at this time of year at all. It makes no difference if it’s Christmas Eve, a few days before or a few weeks after new year. It’s still a Christmas dog. Where is this dog coming from? I’ve no doubt that’s it’s not coming from a reputable source as there are no reputable sources offloading dogs at this time of year. Where are your principles in this case?

sumosi

Cherry Blossom wrote: »

If you had ethical issues surrounding getting a dog for Christmas you wouldn’t get one at this time of year at all. It makes no difference if it’s Christmas Eve, a few days before or a few weeks after new year. It’s still a Christmas dog. Where is this dog coming from? I’ve no doubt that’s it’s not coming from a reputable source as there are no reputable sources offloading dogs at this time of year. Where are your principles in this case?

Well said Cherry - Couldn't agree with you more!

Tim Robbins

sumosi wrote: »

Well said Cherry - Couldn't agree with you more!

Sometimes boards.ie is very useful for getting information and helping people; other times it does nothing than serve for those who like to judge others when they don't know the facts.

We are not in level 5 now so I could pick up the puppy and pretend it is from Santa. However, dogs need to be with the Mother for a certain number of weeks and that is more important. Furthermore, even if the 8 weeks were up by now, I would still have issue producing a puppy at Christmas and wouldn't do it based on that principle. I was hoping to wait until January at which stage it is the best time for the puppy to live with its new family.

I have been looking for a puppy for months; you might even see some of my previous posts where I was trying to go about this the right way (like this one from September: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=114669708). However, the ones offered couldn't answer any the questions I was asking and hence avoided. This one, I know where both Mother and Father are and have spoken to the Father's owner and the Mother's owner several times.

I have also had regularly updates from the puppy owner - video and pictures of the litter.

All the puppies are very well looked after.

My concern is that level five will kick in suddenly and will have difficulty. If you are like me, you view the dog as a member of the family so in my view my journey is family related. So rather than judge me or my family, I would point out I was looking for help for my family.

For example, if I got a letter from an authority that my journey was bone fide would that be ok?

Note: I also have medical conditions and in a higher risk for covid so already have been taking extra precautions.

DBB

I'm reasonably sure, unless my memory is letting me down, that I read stories in the Irish Examiner of people being stopped and sent home when crossing county boundaries to collect pups, during the first lockdown. It wasn't considered essential travel. I assume the same would apply at Level 5?
That said, not every dog bred during the year was produced with an eye on profit... for regular and perfectly legit breeders of gundogs, herding dogs etc, the show must go on. There are also perfectly legit pet dog breeders who may have faced little option but to breed during the year, to keep their lines going, or to have dogs ready to hit the show scene at such a time that shows can happen again, or to remain within IKC rules (such as they are) re age limits of sires and dams. Remember, whilst there was/is a puppy-purchasing mania evident since the lockdowns began, there is still the cohort of people who'd have been buying ethically bred and sourced pups in 2020 anyway, just as people do every year. Perhaps, for such dogs, there's an argument similar to that of farmers, that the business of production and selling on is allowed to continue? I realise I'm putting it in very bare terms, but it is what it is.
Also, for what it's worth, re rescue dogs, some homes are ideal for dogs to go to at Christmas. Not everyone has kids or parties or loudness in the house at this time. On the contrary, some homes are quiet, peaceful, with owners home for several weeks to devote themselves to settling a new dog in.. the alternative is that the dog will be in kennels, or remaining in an unsuitable home that wants rid of it. Rescues are experienced enough to discern which homes are suitable for placing dogs in at Christmas.
I'm just saying the above to add a bit of balance to the thread

tk123

Tim Robbins wrote: »

My concern is that level five will kick in suddenly and will have difficulty.

This was my worry too. My first pup didn’t happen - it was a reputable breeder recommended by the breed society and pups would have been ready at the end of Jan. That would have been Dublin <-> Cork and my backup plan would have been to have my friend bring it up to me if we were restricted as they travel up and down for work twice a week. I’m on a breeder’s list now who is up the north and all going well pups will be ready in April so I’m hoping things will be somewhat better by then please god(!).
I’ve a friend who travelled down to Kerry to collect a rescue dog during restrictions and I’ve a feeling some people would be fine with that because it’s a rescue? But less ok with somebody buying.

DBB

tk123 wrote: »

I’ve a friend who travelled down to Kerry to collect a rescue dog during restrictions and I’ve a feeling some people would be fine with that because it’s a rescue? But less ok with somebody buying.

Word got around quite late in the day during the 1st lockdown that rescues could go about their business. A few did, within limits. For instance, home visits aren't an option that I'd be happy to ask volunteers to do, so some rescues were/are only rehoming to homes that had had a home visit during less restricted times, or who had got a dog from the rescue before.
Volunteers doing transport/vet visits etc can get a cover letter from the rescue if they're stopped.

Bigmac1euro

Cherry Blossom wrote: »

If you had ethical issues surrounding getting a dog for Christmas you wouldn’t get one at this time of year at all. It makes no difference if it’s Christmas Eve, a few days before or a few weeks after new year. It’s still a Christmas dog. Where is this dog coming from? I’ve no doubt that’s it’s not coming from a reputable source as there are no reputable sources offloading dogs at this time of year. Where are your principles in this case?

I picked up a pup 12 weeks ago.
The breeder was reputable I got a family tree with the dogs grand parents and history and where the dogs past parents originated. Met the mother and father and checked all the signs for lack of care for the animals but all seemed extremely healthy. The pup had gotten some injections already and was very healthy as the parents also where.

The same breeder was due another litter a few weeks ago obviously for a different bitch and she was extremely professional. A very kind lady who knew her stuff about the particular breed.

Your reply here is extremely judgemental for a moderator and you come across as quite rude.

If I got my pup 12 weeks ago is he a Christmas pup?
What date defines a Christmas pup and when’s the cut off point?

Of course there’s puppy farms and horrible people doing the wrong thing, it’s clear the OP isn’t looking for a naive dodgy deal and has done his/her research.

Next time you should consider what your saying before putting someone down. It’s up to people to do the research and not for you to pass judgement and question principles when the truth is you have no clue if the OP is getting a pup off a reputable breeder.

Cherry Blossom

With all due respect, in September the OP didn’t know what breed they wanted and now just three months later they have a dog, at a time when virtually no reputable breeders are breeding, waiting lists for pups are longer than Santa’s list. They are getting it seemingly from a person who is willing to home pups two or three weeks early to avoid lockdown restrictions. Sorry, but the chances if this not being a case of a back yard breeder or puppy mill are extremely small. It took me a year and a half to find a suitable health tested pup during normal conditions and Shelties are generally not to hard to come by as a breed. There is a good balance of supply and demand for the breed.

Tim Robbins

Cherry Blossom wrote: »

With all due respect, in September the OP didn’t know what breed they wanted and now just three months later they have a dog, at a time when virtually no reputable breeders are breeding, waiting lists for pups are longer than Santa’s list.

Ok so I wasn't certain enough for you in September, apologies for that.

I got details of a breeder via a connection, who then put me in contact with someone else. I had references from a previous breeder my Mother used.

There are people breeding but they are very fussy who they sell to. They don't advertise and will only sell to people they know through other people.

They are getting it seemingly from a person who is willing to home pups two or three weeks early to avoid lockdown restrictions. Sorry, but the chances if this not being a case of a back yard breeder or puppy mill are extremely small. It took me a year and a half to find a suitable health tested pup during normal conditions and Shelties are generally not to hard to come by as a breed. There is a good balance of supply and demand for the breed.

I have several videos of their living conditions and no-one wanted to get rid of the puppy early.

I feel I have to share the videos or more personal details with you or else you are judging me on something that you have no evidence of. Accusing me of something that I can only defend myself by providing full personal details, flies in the face of boards.ie culture. If I prove to you I am innocent of what you accuse me of what happens to you?

Does anyone know any other good dog websites to help genuine people?

If anyone is willing to help me, maybe IM me. And just a heads up, I am reporting your moderating of this - you have been unfair.

Thanks

Cherry Blossom

I have not been moderating in this thread. I have been posting my own opinion. There is no need for you to post videos. There is a small chance that you have done everything right and if this is the case I apologise. You have gotten good advice from other posters on here. I won’t post on your thread again. Enjoy your pup.

SuziXX

What kinda pup did you decide on in the end?

Tim Robbins

SuziXX wrote: »

What kinda pup did you decide on in the end?

I'll IM you

Tim Robbins

Cherry Blossom wrote: »

I have not been moderating in this thread. I have been posting my own opinion. There is no need for you to post videos. There is a small chance that you have done everything right and if this is the case I apologise. You have gotten good advice from other posters on here. I won’t post on your thread again. Enjoy your pup.

Well I think you have been very rude. If you check your IM's I actually even asked before I posted on Dog forum could I post and ask questions and you replied with an IM to me and said yeah sure but just don't go on about sources. And now more than three months later you are accusing me of going to a puppy farm. If you read the various posts I am have been posting you should at least see I had no interest in doing that and was doing research so I could get the right type of dog for my family from a legit source.

I have done that - when I could have gone to a puppy farm or bought off a dodgey source easily the last few months.

But I didn't do that. I held out and not it just turns out I am in a tricky situation due to the lockdowns.

I have gone out of my way to maintain high standards here and you accused me not caring with no evidence whatsoever. You shouldn't be a mod.

Cherry Blossom

Tim Robbins I have apologised, I don’t make a habit of trawling through previous posts to ascertain if someone has posted here before, before posting my opinion. This is quite a busy forum and I don’t remember everyone who posts here. We get a few threads every year on Christmas puppies and on the face of it, initially that’s what this thread looked like. Again I am sorry if I misunderstood your motives for starting this thread. Merry Christmas.

Tim Robbins

Cherry Blossom wrote: »

Tim Robbins I have apologised, I don’t make a habit of trawling through previous posts to ascertain if someone has posted here before, before posting my opinion. This is quite a busy forum and I don’t remember everyone who posts here. We get a few threads every year on Christmas puppies and on the face of it, initially that’s what this thread looked like. Again I am sorry if I misunderstood your motives for starting this thread. Merry Christmas.

You derailed this thread and insulted me and my family. Just because it is busy gives you no right to jump to nasty conclusions.

tk123

Tim Robbins wrote: »

I'll IM you

?? Why is it a secret?

DBB

Tim Robbins wrote: »

You derailed this thread and insulted me and my family. Just because it is busy gives you no right to jump to nasty conclusions.

You've had 2 apologies at this stage.
Can we drop this now, and move on please?
Thanks,
DBB

Tim Robbins

DBB wrote: »

You've had 2 apologies at this stage.
Can we drop this now, and move on please?
Thanks,
DBB

OK point taken. I was just a bit annoyed.

The plan is to have all my paperwork - proof of payment, proof of IKC registration, passport, driving license anything I can get so when a Garda stops me I will produce and explain and they can make the call.

Is there anything anyone else would recommend? What about a letter from the Dog's Vet?

anewme

Could you get a pet transporter to bring the dog to you OP?

Tim Robbins

anewme wrote: »

Could you get a pet transporter to bring the dog to you OP?

Any you'd recommend?

anewme

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Any you'd recommend?

I haven't used any, sorry! , maybe someone else can, or perhaps your breeder could recommend a reputable transporter to you.

SuziXX

Ring the Garda station, ask if it’s ok, if it is get a letter stating same.

Tim Robbins

SuziXX wrote: »

Ring the Garda station, ask if it’s ok, if it is get a letter stating same.

Rung Citizen Information and they said they thought it would be but the guidelines form government don't go into enough detail.

rainemac

How old is the pup? It is going to be a very quiet Christmas, unlike any other, great time for a pup to join the family in my opinion. If it is over 8weeks, go get it tomorrow.

Tim Robbins

rainemac wrote: »

How old is the pup? It is going to be a very quiet Christmas, unlike any other, great time for a pup to join the family in my opinion. If it is over 8weeks, go get it tomorrow.

Thanks for that. Puppy isn't 8 weeks until after just xmas when Level 5 kicks in. I spoke to the owner and we both agreed, it is imperative the pup is with his Mother for the 8 weeks so that's not an option. If it is meant to be, it is meant to be.

josip

DBB wrote: »

I'm reasonably sure, unless my memory is letting me down, that I read stories in the Irish Examiner of people being stopped and sent home when crossing county boundaries to collect pups, during the first lockdown. It wasn't considered essential travel. I assume the same would apply at Level 5?
That said, not every dog bred during the year was produced with an eye on profit... for regular and perfectly legit breeders of gundogs, herding dogs etc, the show must go on. There are also perfectly legit pet dog breeders who may have faced little option but to breed during the year, to keep their lines going, or to have dogs ready to hit the show scene at such a time that shows can happen again, or to remain within IKC rules (such as they are) re age limits of sires and dams. Remember, whilst there was/is a puppy-purchasing mania evident since the lockdowns began, there is still the cohort of people who'd have been buying ethically bred and sourced pups in 2020 anyway, just as people do every year. Perhaps, for such dogs, there's an argument similar to that of farmers, that the business of production and selling on is allowed to continue? I realise I'm putting it in very bare terms, but it is what it is.
Also, for what it's worth, re rescue dogs, some homes are ideal for dogs to go to at Christmas. Not everyone has kids or parties or loudness in the house at this time. On the contrary, some homes are quiet, peaceful, with owners home for several weeks to devote themselves to settling a new dog in.. the alternative is that the dog will be in kennels, or remaining in an unsuitable home that wants rid of it. Rescues are experienced enough to discern which homes are suitable for placing dogs in at Christmas.
I'm just saying the above to add a bit of balance to the thread

Just to qualify the reference to the original person being turned around, if it's the same story.
He lied to the gardai initially about his reason for travel, he said he was
going to turn off an alarm.
If he'd told the truth at the first checkpoint he may well have been allowed on.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus/derry-man-jailed-after-driving-280-miles-to-kerry-to-buy-puppies-39136181.html

Well if it was me stopping you, I would turn you back, but you will probably be grand

Tim Robbins

bubblypop wrote: »

Well if it was me stopping you, I would turn you back, but you will probably be grand

Any reason why?

Tim Robbins

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Any reason why?

I just don't believe that buying a dog is a justified reason to travel across county boundaries.
It's not an essential journey, but, most guards are tired now, so I'm sure you will be fine.

Tim Robbins

bubblypop wrote: »

I just don't believe that buying a dog is a justified reason to travel across county boundaries.
It's not an essential journey, but, most guards are tired now, so I'm sure you will be fine.

Purchase for the dog was agreed before new restrictions announced, so what should happen the dog then if we don't collect? Trip will mean, quick stop off and collection. There is no hanging around.

muddypaws

You are allowed to travel for animal welfare reasons, not sure if this would fall under that, but, an argument could be made, needing to get the pup at the optimum age for bonding with the new family, within the socialisation window etc. And your point about if the breeder had to keep all the pups.

Fill up the car within your own county and keep the receipt to hand, bring food with you, to show that you won't be stopping anywhere except to collect the pup and return. If he/she is to be a family pet, it is nice, in normal times, to bring the kids to collect a new pup, but at the moment I would suggest just 1 or 2 adults to reduce the amount of stops needed.

Most Gardai are very reasonable, if you do literally just go, collect and return, I can't see that you're a danger.

Tim Robbins

muddypaws wrote: »

You are allowed to travel for animal welfare reasons, not sure if this would fall under that, but, an argument could be made, needing to get the pup at the optimum age for bonding with the new family, within the socialisation window etc. And your point about if the breeder had to keep all the pups.

Fill up the car within your own county and keep the receipt to hand, bring food with you, to show that you won't be stopping anywhere except to collect the pup and return. If he/she is to be a family pet, it is nice, in normal times, to bring the kids to collect a new pup, but at the moment I would suggest just 1 or 2 adults to reduce the amount of stops needed.

Most Gardai are very reasonable, if you do literally just go, collect and return, I can't see that you're a danger.

Thanks. We are not bringing kids for that reason.

I know this is boards.ie and people are quick to judge. But, we had considered getting a dog a few years ago but the kids were too young. At least one of them has to be in the position where they can walk the dog and the all of them have to be able to tidy up their toys. This breed I know won't trigger my asthma as I had one when I was younger. There are people selling them every four weeks on dogs.ie but they couldn't answer the questions I was asking so I went no further. We will have as much paper work as possible and will present that if stopped.

Ultimately, it is a decision for the Garda on the day and that will be 100% accepted either way.

biko

Buying a pet is not an essential journey.
If the breeder will deliver then it's on them.

tk123

What is essential for one person may not seem essential to another at the end of the day...

biko

That is why the government have set up directions on what is essential travel, so there hopefully won't be confusion.

You could find them in Corona forum but here they are
https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/covid19/living_with_covid19_plan.html#l05988

What pertains to OP
After 27 December, you must stay within your county.

You should not travel unless it is:
To return home (your place of residence) if you travelled outside your county before 26 December
For food shopping
To travel to and from essential work
...

Tim Robbins

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Purchase for the dog was agreed before new restrictions announced, so what should happen the dog then if we don't collect? Trip will mean, quick stop off and collection. There is no hanging around.

Well tbf a lot of things were organised before current restrictions, but they had to change.
Like I said, I'm sure the guards are tired and really don't care about what made up reasons people give them anymore, so I'm sure you will get there and back.
It's definitely not an essential journey though

Tim Robbins

biko wrote: »

That is why the government have set up directions on what is essential travel, so there hopefully won't be confusion.

You could find them in Corona forum but here they are
https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/covid19/living_with_covid19_plan.html#l05988

What pertains to OP
After 27 December, you must stay within your county.

You should not travel unless it is:
To return home (your place of residence) if you travelled outside your county before 26 December
For food shopping
To travel to and from essential work
...

I rang citizen information and was told the level of detail doesn't make exactly what is and what is not essential but advised if I bring documentation it should be ok.

Tim Robbins

bubblypop wrote: »

Well tbf a lot of things were organised before current restrictions, but they had to change.
Like I said, I'm sure the guards are tired and really don't care about what made up reasons people give them anymore, so I'm sure you will get there and back.
It's definitely not an essential journey though

Nothing is an essential journey depending on how you define essential. Common sense would say what matters most is we don't introduce any risk to anyone while in a pandemic. So it's straight up collect and go home.

bertiebomber

the garda are ok with animal issues collections deliveries vets feeding etc i have travelled to another county to see a specialist vet dog was in car garda saw dog and waved me on .

Ginger83

Go and get your pup. All an awkward guard will do is turn you back or fine you, not the end of the world.

anewme

I have travelled to another County (not that far though) with dog food for my elderly mums dogs. Was stopped and told Garda where I was going and he said,,,”gotta be done”

tk123

tk123 wrote: »

I’ve a friend who travelled down to Kerry to collect a rescue dog during restrictions and I’ve a feeling some people would be fine with that because it’s a rescue? But less ok with somebody buying.

I've a friend involved in a rescue and they were able to get an exemption letter to travel outside their county to rehome animals as it relates to animal welfare.

Don't know if it works the other way around, though ?!?

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I've a friend involved in a rescue and they were able to get an exemption letter to travel outside their county to rehome animals as it relates to animal welfare.

Don't know if it works the other way around, though ?!?

Buying a dog is not really animal welfare though, is it?

josip

bubblypop wrote: »

Buying a dog is not really animal welfare though, is it?

If a dog stays too long at the breeder, they'll miss their socialisation window.
This will adversely affect how they interact with other dogs, people, situations for the rest of their lives
For those not familiar with it, it doesn't seem important, but most people who have experience with puppies and dogs stress the importance of it.

https://www.medivet.co.uk/pet-care/pet-advice/the-importance-of-puppy-socialisation/

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

Buying a dog is not really animal welfare though, is it?

I was replying to the reference to someone collecting a rescue dog.

tk123 wrote: »

I’ve a friend who travelled down to Kerry to collect a rescue dog during restrictions and I’ve a feeling some people would be fine with that because it’s a rescue? But less ok with somebody buying.

Tim Robbins

Just an update on this. We went down and were stopped at one checkpoint. Told the complete truth and had all our paperwork ready to show the Gardai which they didn't want to see, after a quick chat they let us drive on.

My advise to anyone - try to avoid this. You should only be travelling if you really have no other choice. In this case, we couldn't. The best time to rehome a dog is between 8 - 10 weeks after that it can be stressful for the puppy.

Secondly, if you have to travel beyond 5km limit, have all your paper work. We had passports, proof of current address, letter from owner stating when we agreed to pay, letters from our jobs, letter stating would be outdoors only and return immediately, chip number of dog and copies of the puppy's parents details etc etc.

We also rang the local Garda station the day before and explained the situation . They cannot issue you a letter or a "pass". It is basically completely at the discretion of the Garda on the day when they stop you. If they don't think your reason is good enough you will sent back. So tell the truth and have your paperwork and let them make the decision.

But as I said, we never planned to be in this situation. We had hoped we would back to level two by the time it had come to do pick up.

Most Gardai are reasonable, if you are honest and in a tough situation they will understand, you should be ok.

Now I am off to pat the dog!

apache

That's great Tim. How is it going? Tell us about him/her.