Discovery 3x10 - 'Terra Firma: Part 2 ' ~~ { ** Spoilers Within ** }

ilovesmybrick

Discovery 3x10 'Terra Firma: Part 2'

Sad Professor wrote: »

Folks, in relation to spoilers, you don't have to use spoiler tags in the episode threads. If someone hasn't seen the episode yet then they shouldn't be reading the thread, period. When it airs on Netflix doesn't matter. I would suggest that whoever starts the thread put a spoiler warning in the title. I'll add one to this now.

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{ ** Spoilers from Below ** }

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ilovesmybrick

So, that was better than the first half, though I think it could have easily been made a single episode and move on. Again, the most interesting part of the episode, finding the ship (and to some extent what's going on with the admiral, because he seemed...dodgier than usual) was relegated to a very few brief minutes. Pretty much the last 5-6 minutes of the funeral drinks could have been dumped with no major loss.

I have to say, the graphics on the Guardian looked amazing, that was a great shot when it reformed!

corkie

Thanks @ilovesmybrick for posting before me.





Directed by Chloe Domont​


IMDb Link: - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt12047894/

Memory-alpha epsiode breakdown: - https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Terra_Firma,_Part_2_(episode)

^^^ Above links probably contain spoiler information.




Star Trek: Discovery | "Terra Firma, Part 2" (S3, E10) Recap | The Ready Room
Michelle Yeoh Interviewed in this.
^^^ US VPN Required ~~ Spoilers and Preview of E11.

ilovesmybrick

corkie wrote: »

Thanks @ilovesmybrick for posting before me.

I was shocked I beat you to it!

liamtech

It was ok - But there was no real need for it as an episode

I thought Prime Lorca might have shown up actually - but alas they ran out of time, given that this episode had two seperate Michaels

Im just not feeling this show anymore - quite sad really

But when i compare this to other current shows (Mando, the expanse) - It pales in comparison

3 episodes left to tie it all together - depending on the story this could really be something! but past experience suggests its downhill from here

EDIT - almost forgot

Inclusion of Guardian of Forever - fine i guess
Dubbing his voice with the original from COTEOF - Slightly cringe inducing

ilovesmybrick

liamtech wrote: »

It was ok - But there was no real need for it as an episode

I thought Prime Lorca might have shown up actually - but alas they ran out of time, given that this episode had two seperate Michaels

Im just not feeling this show anymore - quite sad really

But when i compare this to other current shows (Mando, the expanse) - It pales in comparison

3 episodes left to tie it all together - depending on the story this could really be something! but past experience suggests its downhill from here

EDIT - almost forgot

Inclusion of Guardian of Forever - fine i guess
Dubbing his voice with the original from COTEOF - Slightly cringe inducing

I think the problem is that they want to create a big single series story, and they have the broad plot points (the Burn, What happened to the Federation) but they don't seem to have the ability to flesh out these stories sufficiently, so we've ended up with quite a lot of fluff and padding. Presumably the last three episodes will directly deal with the Burn and the Federation, so that means the main season 3 story we've seen could fill perhaps 6 episodes at best?

This isn't actually a major issue in itself, except the other episodes aren't really developing the other characters, and those characters were never developed fully enough for us to have an interest in or understanding of them so there is almost no B story lines of note. Detmar is a prime example, her PTSD could have been an interesting standalone episode, with the b plot doing something small to move the story forward.

How much would we really have lost without the Earth/Trill/Vulcan episodes? From the Earth episode-Adira, Trill-the location of Starfleet, Vulcan-their research data. That's nearly three hours of the season, and I don't think we gained that much from it at all. Personally I have no sense of the universe they inhabit or what's going on. The emerald chain is an interesting concept, but I have no point of reference for their level of threat to the federation or how diminished the federation actually is. The only point of reference I can see is whatever Michael fancies doing that week, rather than there being a broader universe in which they are operating. There's just no sense of scale to anything, if that makes sense.

liamtech

ilovesmybrick wrote: »

I think the problem is that they want to create a big single series story, and they have the broad plot points (the Burn, What happened to the Federation) but they don't seem to have the ability to flesh out these stories sufficiently, so we've ended up with quite a lot of fluff and padding. Presumably the last three episodes will directly deal with the Burn and the Federation, so that means the main season 3 story we've seen could fill perhaps 6 episodes at best?

This isn't actually a major issue in itself, except the other episodes aren't really developing the other characters, and those characters were never developed fully enough for us to have an interest in or understanding of them so there is almost no B story lines of note. Detmar is a prime example, her PTSD could have been an interesting standalone episode, with the b plot doing something small to move the story forward.

How much would we really have lost without the Earth/Trill/Vulcan episodes? From the Earth episode-Adira, Trill-the location of Starfleet, Vulcan-their research data. That's nearly three hours of the season, and I don't think we gained that much from it at all. Personally I have no sense of the universe they inhabit or what's going on. The emerald chain is an interesting concept, but I have no point of reference for their level of threat to the federation or how diminished the federation actually is. The only point of reference I can see is whatever Michael fancies doing that week, rather than there being a broader universe in which they are operating. There's just no sense of scale to anything, if that makes sense.

I agree with you

They have run out of time to flesh out the main arc - Which IMHO is not actually that interesting (all the Dilithium has exploded - very contrived)

Running out of time is common enough - but what did they use the time for?

Michael, Michael, Michael, Tilly, Michael, Pointless-Mirror-2Parter-Michael

the one character who has had too much time is given even more time; and unless im mistaken, No one was crying out to learn more about her. The other characters are not actually characters IMHO - i mean they could actually sack them all next season, and just replace the bridge crew with newbies - and no one would seriously care, nor would it really effect the plot

So they have pointlessly run out of time, again this is IMHO

Bottom line for me -1 episode (E5 finding the Federation & Starfleet) was decent. The rest have been Average ok (Mirror, Trill), Below average (Unification, Earth, second episode) and the rest have been very poor. And like i said i just find the burn to be a bad/poor over all story

3 episodes left, so fingers crossed - but next weeks episode doesnt look exceptional at all

FutureGuy

This season did NOT need a two-parter based in the Mirror Universe. A complete waste of time.

ilovesmybrick

The season started off reasonably well I think, but the past three episodes have been a real dip in quality for me. Maybe they'll pull it back in the final three and these recent ones fit in somewhere, but overall at the moment I think season 2 was more consistent and stronger. I did a full rewatch just before season 3 came out and was finding it far more enjoyable than on the first watch. I think the attempt to do season long stories, combined with the lack of development of any secondary characters, means that the poorer episodes really stand out more in isolation.

While I'm interested in what they're planning for the Burn and Starfleet (especially with the Admirals kind of shifty behaviour in this episode coming straight after Georgiou's warning), I think this has so far been the weakest of the three series this year. I loved Lower Decks, Picard I enjoyed, though it slipped towards the end. Glancing over at the reddit threads I do find myself wondering if it's just me, because they're so effusive with their praise. I'm glad that Trek doesn't have the same vitriolic criticism that appears to be the case with some other sci-fi franchises, but the only place I'm seeing any valid criticism of episodes is here.

Spear

It's a second week of pantomime villain stuff, just for an excuse to move Georgiou in time for her spin off series.

I thought Picard was flawed in it's slow advancement of the main plot, but Discovery's season 3 takes it to an extreme. Out of 10 episodes, we've have barely 20 minutes or so dedicated to the overarching plot of the Burn, despite being told that this is the key. Picard did gain some momentum in it's later episodes, I can only hope Discovery can do the same.

corkie

I Am The Guardian Of Forever - Star Trek Discovery 3x10

As a bubble episodes in alternative mirror universe and not having effect on the series timelines. As confirmed by her 'fitbit' she did spend sometime in some reality.



'The ready room' is out now as well with Michelle Yeoh Interviewed. Link in previous post.

Goodshape

That was alright. Mirror universe is silly nonsense though. I guess it concludes the Hitler redemption story so not an altogether pointless episode, in the scheme of things.

Mirror-Georgiou won't be missed but she was much more watchable once she softened up a bit in this episode. Pity we got so little of "Prime" Georgiou.

Guardian Of Forever - yeah, whatever. We all kind of assumed that anyway, they should have made it obvious from the start or not at all. A big reveal that is purely for the audience always feels a bit unnatural, I think. Like that "My NAME... is... KHAN >:-( " rubbish. "Okay, Khan. I'm Jim, he's Spock. Who gives a ****?".


Enjoyable enough anyway.

PirateShampoo

Basically a 2 part episode to set-up Space Hitler's spinoff series.

There was no reason why they couldn't do this in one episode other than to try and get us to like Space Hitler and watch her show.

I can already see The Burn arch falling flat on its face, it looks like they read fan theories and changed the story.

Slydice

Thought it was an alright episode. Got most hyped about the coalition and the headlines on the newspaper. Liked the Seven of Nine reference.

I was curious at the end about where Georgiou has ended up. Guessing she'll either be back or another version of Georgiou will turn up later.

Spear

Slydice wrote: »

Thought it was an alright episode. Got most hyped about the coalition and the headlines on the newspaper. Liked the Seven of Nine reference.

I was curious at the end about where Georgiou has ended up. Guessing she'll either be back or another version of Georgiou will turn up later.

She ends up in the Section 31 series.

AMKC

Ye a bit dull that episode. The first episode to it was much better and I agree they should have revealed the Guardian in the first episode and sent her through then. Was I sad to see her ho not really. Wonder Woman had more tearfull moments in it than this. Who does Georgio think she is trying to tell Micheal she would be a better Captain than Saru and why did the writers even do that when that's the last thing we the audience want?

breezy1985

Slydice wrote: »

Thought it was an alright episode. Got most hyped about the coalition and the headlines on the newspaper. Liked the Seven of Nine reference.

I was curious at the end about where Georgiou has ended up. Guessing she'll either be back or another version of Georgiou will turn up later.

What was the 7 reference?


Just watched the first 3 episodes of the new Expanse series and god the differences are so obvious. No over the top CGI exploding doors or slo mo badge throws and more decent scenes than the 10 episodes of DIS

fritzelly

That has been the longest send off of a character in any show ever (and again it was totally Michael centric - someone just put the their phaser on kill and be done with her)

Seriously why bring her along to drop the character just over half way thru when they already knew she was going to another show - you can get away with the self indulgent episodes when you have 24 episodes per season but not when you half that amount of episodes to tell a single story

And that you should be Captain line was so cringey I actually groaned

So much stuff going on in the show but they are barely touching it
I will continue to watch as I love Star Trek - but this season has been the worst so far

ilovesmybrick

breezy1985 wrote: »

Just watched the first 3 episodes of the new Expanse series and god the differences are so obvious. No over the top CGI exploding doors or slo mo badge throws and more decent scenes than the 10 episodes of DIS

I think the Expanse is hands down the best sci-fi series of the past 15 years or so. The best I've seen since BSG anyway!

ilovesmybrick

ilovesmybrick wrote: »

I think the Expanse is hands down the best sci-fi series of the past 15 years or so. The best I've seen since BSG anyway!

Future Sci-Fi anyway.


Person of Interest was great

One thing this showed is that they have absolutely wasted Michelle Yeoh.

You know what we need?

More crying

alchemist33

FutureGuy wrote: »

This season did NOT need a two-parter based in the Mirror Universe. A complete waste of time.

I think they meant it as a fitting sendoff to a much-loved character.

Except they once again overestimated the viewers attachment to the character, because until maybe the last episode where she softened a little, she was just a bag of snark and psychopathy. Character development just isn't the writers thing.

Banana Republic 1

Another dreadful dog turd, Crying over space hitler, please. It’s lined up now Saru leaves to join the other kelpians ala Nelix and Mikey Spock will ascend to captain of the universe.


Mikey Spock “Lorca !”
Detmer “ We couldn’t afford him cause we’re **** out of money”

Rawr

Deleted User wrote: »

One thing this showed is that they have absolutely wasted Michelle Yeoh.

+1

Captain Georgiou from Season 1 - Episode 1 wasn't half bad, and I could have seen myself watching a whole show with her as Captain. That version of her felt "Starfleet" enough to be a solid starship captain.

But no...they kill her off because Martin-Green is the contracted lead and Michelle Yeoh's talents are then forever wasted in Discovery to be resurrected as a cartoon villainess who the writers somehow thought we'd actually like.

That's my current theory for this 2-part swan-song for Geogiou...they thought we'd *miss* her and played up the fact that she is leaving. They really didn't need to make this a 2-parter, but since Part 2 was also a Bottle episode my theory from last episode feels solid. They are short of cash, and padded out a script so that they'd get 2 Bottle Episodes for the price of one.

And so Geogiou is off...likely to that Section 31 show that I'm not really all that interested in seeing...assuming it isn't in some kind of production limbo. Maybe Michelle Yeoh just wanted an easy out? Alas before she left, she also planted the seed for what I believe will likely kill any remaining hope I have for this show. She encouraged Michael to be Captain...and since these writers have no concept of subtly, I fear that this is exactly what they have planned. Captain Suru's days may be numbered....

TheValeyard

My thoughts

Nice to see some TOS Guardian

Even mirror mick talks too much

So Space Hitler is in her way to her own show

Not getting evil Admiral vive some of ye are saying? Are all admirals evil in Trek world?

I enjoy the Terran verse and would watch a show on it.

Wasted opportunity to bring back Lorca

Banana Republic 1

TheValeyard wrote: »

My thoughts

Nice to see some TOS Guardian

Even mirror mick talks too much

So Space Hitler is in her way to her own show

Not getting evil Admiral vive some of ye are saying? Are all admirals evil in Trek world?

I enjoy the Terran verse and would watch a show on it.

Wasted opportunity to bring back Lorca

They don’t have the money for Lorca and beside he would show up the rest of them for the toothpaste commercial actors they are.

CastorTroy

Wonder if to join you had to be fully Terran, since we had Detmer without her bionic eye and Airiam v2.0 without her bionic everything.

If they were doing this to send her off to the new series, how come they didn't do what most shows do and use an episode as a backdoor pilot? Supernatural tried it twice, The 100 did it using 1 of the episodes from its final season and the 50 CSIs and NCIS shows did it. I guess the pilot didn't have enough Michael.
Wonder when it's set. Like would it be far enough in the past that Georgiou meets Michael's ancestor that looks exactly like her?

I'll probably check out the spinoff. I wasn't a fan of Georgiou but I'll admit to not being a big fan of Angel in Buffy (ooh err) but loved the spinoff, apart from a lot of season 4.

pah

Uuuugggghhhh fukking YAWN

FGR

CastorTroy wrote: »

Wonder when it's set. Like would it be far enough in the past that Georgiou meets Michael's ancestor that looks exactly like her?

....Picard Season 2?

~Rebel~

FGR wrote: »

....Picard Season 2?

Michelle Yeoh has been attached to a Section 31 series since January last year, and the show runners attached to that show co-wrote this 2 parter, so that’s pretty much that - pending any upsets Covid may have caused production of it.

For this episode itself, meh... just very frustrating to take an hour and a half away from an already very underdeveloped season to spend time on entirely irrelevant stuff.

GreeBo

That Terran acting makes Shatner look positively understated and subtle.

Yester

The only good Burnham is a dead Burnham.

alchemist33

GreeBo wrote: »

That Terran acting makes Shatner look positively understated and subtle.

The scene where the mutineers are all pointing their guns at the emperor and put on those over-exaggerated sneers was laughable.

CastorTroy

Yester wrote: »

The only good Burnham is a dead Burnham.

If that happened the writers mightn't know how to resolve anything without their Deus Ex Burnham

silverharp

alchemist33 wrote: »

The scene where the mutineers are all pointing their guns at the emperor and put on those over-exaggerated sneers was laughable.

just watching it now, the 1930's Flash Gordon is Dr Zhivago compared to this

AllForIt

That was better. See, just cut out the crap and at least make it somewhat watchable.


I actually liked Phillipa despite often going OTT. Than again maybe that's just because, and this really hit home for me this series, that I don't care for the vast majority of the crew at all. Stamets, the doc, and the helm crew especially. They are just so one dimensional and even unlikable. Saru is good though.

nyarlothothep

Yeah I'd like to see more Philipa, pity she's kinda been written out for the moment...again!

I have to say, season 3 of STD is a distinct improvement over Season 2. For example Tilly has had a Wesley-like arc going from super annoying to actually the coolest of them. Saru is also no longer irritating but measured and reasonable. I find the reduced focus on Burnham is to the show's advantage. Michael is just a boring character and the actress who plays her isn't very good. In the same way, Tron was a dull character so the focus wasn't on him so much as it was on the other characters and particularly Flynn/Jeff Bridges. However, evil mirror universe Burhnam works quite well and I think Sonequa Martin-Green plays the snakey villain type a lot more convincingly than the paragon of justice type. However there was of course the annoying "you should be captain remark" at the end. No, Saru should be captain, he earned it, he takes it seriously and it's not a role that the writers imply is his destiny, which makes him all the more suitable for such responsibility.

To sum up, Season 3 is actually approaching enjoyable/good quality. That could be to do with my expectations being set to less than zero. I would actually like to see more STD seasons, if they keep this up, by season 6 it might even become...a decent show????!

Banana Republic 1

nyarlothothep wrote: »

Yeah I'd like to see more Philipa, pity she's kinda been written out for the moment...again!

I have to say, season 3 of STD is a distinct improvement over Season 2. For example Tilly has had a Wesley-like arc going from super annoying to actually the coolest of them. Saru is also no longer irritating but measured and reasonable. I find the reduced focus on Burnham is to the show's advantage. Michael is just a boring character and the actress who plays her isn't very good. In the same way, Tron was a dull character so the focus wasn't on him so much as it was on the other characters and particularly Flynn/Jeff Bridges. However, evil mirror universe Burhnam works quite well and I think Sonequa Martin-Green plays the snakey villain type a lot more convincingly than the paragon of justice type. However there was of course the annoying "you should be captain remark" at the end. No, Saru should be captain, he earned it, he takes it seriously and it's not a role that the writers imply is his destiny, which makes him all the more suitable for such responsibility.

To sum up, Season 3 is actually approaching enjoyable/good quality. That could be to do with my expectations being set to less than zero. I would actually like to see more STD seasons, if they keep this up, by season 6 it might even become...a decent show????!

I did post this earlier but I think mine and yours highlight the chalk and cheese of this shows audience, although there is some crossover of opinion re the captaincy issue. See below...

“Another dreadful dog turd of an episode. Crying over space hitler, please. It’s lined up now Saru leaves to join the other kelpians ala Nelix and Mikey Spock will ascend to captain of the universe.”

“(Mikey Spock “Lorca !”
Detmer “ We couldn’t afford him cause we’re **** out of money”)”

Yester

CastorTroy wrote: »

If that happened the writers mightn't know how to resolve anything without their Deus Ex Burnham

I just saw a leaked trailer for next season. Discovery is pulled into a parallel universe that is populated entirely with Michael Burnhams.

breezy1985

Yester wrote: »

I just saw a leaked trailer for next season. Discovery is pulled into a parallel universe that is populated entirely with Michael Burnhams.

They take on the Council of Micks

GreeBo

Yester wrote: »

I just saw a leaked trailer for next season. Discovery is pulled into a parallel universe that is populated entirely with Michael Burnhams.

Not sure I'll notice the difference tbh

Mirror nilsson brown hair I see. And a separate airiam??

Why isn't mirror Bridge dude dead after the duel with owo last week? They were supposed to kill each other later. Well i suppose they got there in the end.

I love jett reno. And booker.

"you have always been far greater than u could imagine, Michael" ummm she already imagines she's pretty great like what

Kermit.de.frog

Deleted User wrote: »

You know what we need?

More crying

Mentioned this before. I'm all for emotion but the amount of crying in STD overall is way OTT.

I propose we set up a cryometer for each episode to measure instances from now on. There are some sort of records being broken here, I can feel it.

CastorTroy

Yester wrote: »

I just saw a leaked trailer for next season. Discovery is pulled into a parallel universe that is populated entirely with Michael Burnhams.

At this point they've got Michael's head so far up her own ar$E that she'll start seeing things like Being John Malkovich and everyone will have her head

AllForIt

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Mentioned this before. I'm all for emotion but the amount of crying in STD overall is way OTT.

I propose we set up a cryometer for each episode to measure instances from now on. There are some sort of records being broken here, I can feel it.

It's no accident. The whole crew are designed precisely to be the opposite of strong stoic white men. Instead we have an emotional in touch with their feelings type. There is no limit in Discovery to the types of ppl they will 'represent'.

The problem is it's not realistic to have those types of people sigh up for active duty.

FGR

AllForIt wrote: »

The problem is it's not realistic to have those types of people sigh up for active duty.

They'd be the few apples as opposed to the barrel alright. That observation made me realise why Lorca had stood out so much, apart from the actor being head and shoulders above the rest of the cast; he was the only white alpha male on the crew.

Pike did a decent job too, of course.

breezy1985

AllForIt wrote: »

It's no accident. The whole crew are designed precisely to be the opposite of strong stoic white men. Instead we have an emotional in touch with their feelings type. There is no limit in Discovery to the types of ppl they will 'represent'.

The problem is it's not realistic to have those types of people sigh up for active duty.

"Strong stoic white men" what a load of utter crap. Strong and stoic yes they are supposed to be elite personnel but Trek has always been proud of the fact that it's strong characters are not just white men.

Also strong stoic white Picard and Kirk have both cried in Trek as did strong stoic black Sisco

breezy1985

breezy1985 wrote: »

"Strong stoic white men" what a load of utter crap. Strong and stoic yes they are supposed to be elite personnel but Trek has always been proud of the fact that it's strong characters are not just white men.

Also strong stoic white Picard and Kirk have both cried in Trek as did strong stoic black Sisco

And they touched (briefly) on Archer teetering on a breakdown, post Xindi.

GreeBo

breezy1985 wrote: »

Also strong stoic white Picard and Kirk have both cried in Trek as did strong stoic black Sisco

Not multiple times every bloody episode though!
It's actually a terrible representation of women, Janeway or Dax were much better role models.

GreeBo

GreeBo wrote: »

Not multiple times every bloody episode though!
It's actually a terrible representation of women, Janeway or Dax were much better role models.

The idea of a stoic white "alpha male" nonsense is not needed. People who describe themselves as Alphas are absolute arseholes



Real people exist in the middle. We don't need to bounce from this over emotional nonsense to the opposite end of the scale